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Vanessa Vasquez
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Posted - 2009.06.29 12:45:00 -
[1]
Faction stuff is a relic from old times, before T2 messed the whole balancing thing up, right? 
Seriously, if you think faction stuff is cool to be collected and never taken out of the hangar, then stop reading right here. I for one would love to field one of these rare and expensive toys, but as it stands, T2 is always way better.
I think we can all agree that pvp is pretty much T2. Just take a look at the various killboards. Interceptors, Assault Frigs, Recons, HACs, DICs and HICs. Battlecruisers are the only valid "eco" pvp class vessels. (BS and above i consider POS warfare tools  ) Agreed, there are faction ships which do ok. Faction BS for our mission carebears. Navy Caracal and Fleet Stabber do a pretty good job in pvp, as well as the Phantasm. But what about the rest?
Cynabal? 160m right now, less dps, slower, less effective HP, less drones and med slots than a Vaga making it less versatile ... actually, it does nothing better than a Vagabond, all at the same time. It just looks better 
Vigilant? just some sort of black deimos with crappy stats
Gila? totaly useless
Not to mention all the faction and pirate faction frigs. I would ask the CSM to support a review of these faction ships, to make them actually viable for pvp.
To be clear. I'm not saying those faction or pirate faction vessels should match T2. But if they don't and somebody would say (for some odd reason) they were went to be between t1 and t2, then rebalance them by adjusting bpc drop rates to get a lower price tag according to their power.
 Quote:
[21:02:14] McKinlay > it's always nice to be out-failed :P. there are no winners or losers just people that fail harder
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Vanessa Vasquez
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Posted - 2009.06.29 12:46:00 -
[2]
reserved
Quote:
[21:02:14] McKinlay > it's always nice to be out-failed :P. there are no winners or losers just people that fail harder |
Vanessa Vasquez
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Posted - 2009.06.29 13:24:00 -
[3]
GilaGurista (caldari + gallente)
We allready have the Cerberus, Drake and Navycaracal with all those missile bonuses, right? Eagle and Cerb are snipers pretty much, so it could either be a dps boat (navycal with assault launchers does that job pretty well i assume) or a drone boat with a shield tank, which would be unique
Required Skills: Gallente Cruiser 5 / Caldari Cruiser 5
Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level and 10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield per skill level.
Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to shield resistance per level and 5% and dunno yet, maybe something for active/passive tanking depending on final slot layout. or even +5% medium hybrid damage, depeding on dronebay. we won't get the Gila to close to the Vexor/Ishtar me thinks
Quote:
[21:02:14] McKinlay > it's always nice to be out-failed :P. there are no winners or losers just people that fail harder |
yani dumyat
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.06.29 14:25:00 -
[4]
Edited by: yani dumyat on 29/06/2009 14:24:47
100% support, would love to use my dramiel as something other than a paperweight and a gila with hybrid DPS and drone DPS bonuses would be superb.
The navy osprey could do with some love in the form of extra PG and a couple of low slots for nanos.
Sig_________________________________________________________________________________
My alliance, corp, psychiatrist and parole officer claim no responsibility for my actions on these forums. |
Kaito Haakkainen
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Posted - 2009.06.29 17:09:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Kaito Haakkainen on 29/06/2009 17:10:51
I'd much rather see their cost (LP, tag, etc) reduced so that their price more closely reflects their ability, which is between t1 and t2.
I do firmly agree that these ships should not be collectors items and that the game would benefit a great deal from the added variety that having more reasonably priced faction ships would bring.
I am in favor of them receiving sufficient love to bring the other faction vessels up to par with the Sansha ones. So long as they remain essentially tech level 1.5. Why not on par with t2? Because I hope to see t2 faction equipment at some point.
[As an aside I think a drone bonus on the Gila is a horrible idea, but primarily for immersion reasons.]
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2009.06.29 17:17:00 -
[6]
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nathaniel flanders
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Posted - 2009.06.29 18:02:00 -
[7]
yes pls, it's about time!
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Bunyip
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.06.29 18:21:00 -
[8]
The CSM's job is not game balance, that's held by the QA people at CCP. The most they could do is ask them what the story is on these ships. As they are rare drops by commanders, the only real way to change anything about the cost is to have more commanders drop them, but then you get into market saturation and such.
I'm sure the QA guys have their hands full with the Strategic Cruisers right now, but the CSM could advance this issue still. Perhaps in one of the CSM/CCP Q&A sessions. While I support this measure, don't expect a quick response, as CCP has their hands full already.
"May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table. |
Kaito Haakkainen
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.06.29 19:06:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Kaito Haakkainen on 29/06/2009 19:08:54
Originally by: Bunyip
they are rare drops by commanders, the only real way to change anything about the cost is to have more commanders drop them
They are available from the relevant LP stores. The Gila is acquired from the Guristas just as the Navy Caracal can be acquired from the State... excluding the vastly increased risk of mission-running in NPC 0.0 that is. Same applies to all of them.
[EDIT: They are also dropped by certain NPC's so your not wrong there, though commanders aren't the only ones to drop the BPCs]
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Oam Mkoll
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.29 19:12:00 -
[10]
While I agree with Bunyip, I also like the overall idea of making the faction ships more viable. Making them fully insurable could be a way.
They are pretty, they are cool, they are tied to the world of New Eden. Aren't factions supposed to be important, eh?
Now all those sexy ships are mostly gathering dust. Subsequent changes in mechanics (NOS for example) and the introduction of T2 and new modules warrants a closer look at faction ships. Let's leave the specifics to CCP but IMO they should put this on a 'todo' list at least.
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Kaito Haakkainen
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.06.29 20:26:00 -
[11]
Relevant to our interests: Linkage
Looks like the devs intend to look into the issue but it's on the distant horizon, so long as the price/performance ratio works out better in the end I don't mind which side of scale is tipped, though I'm still of the opinion a bit of both would be ideal.
I still support this issue as I don't think the devs realize just how long many players have been waiting for a full review of these ships, nor the importance they have for those representing the outlaw factions.
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Fille Balle
Dissolution Of Eternity
Event Horizon.
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Posted - 2009.06.29 20:42:00 -
[12]
Yes indeed. I thought I was the only one thinking this. On another note, I also think faction gear needs a revamp. As it stands, they're only expensive toys for mission runners, and the same goes for the faction ships.
I say, remove the artificial price tag barrier in the lp store (no isk for bpc's), and let the players decide the price tag. Increase the drop rates as well. After all, this is a pvp game no? Then shouldn't the best gear/ships also be geared towards pvp?
/Support with additions
PS: btw, battleships are pvp. RR BS gang anyone? FOTY anyone?
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Uronksur Suth
Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.06.29 21:17:00 -
[13]
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Melanie Griffin
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Posted - 2009.07.01 05:48:00 -
[14]
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Nidhiesk
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Posted - 2009.07.01 11:52:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Nidhiesk on 01/07/2009 11:52:08
the bpc on the LP store for most of the navy type vessel should have 5 runs and same material need. that should bring the market price down enough to make it more useful and less as a collector's item
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Vanessa Vasquez
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Posted - 2009.07.02 07:42:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Nidhiesk
Edited by: Nidhiesk on 01/07/2009 11:52:08
the bpc on the LP store for most of the navy type vessel should have 5 runs and same material need. that should bring the market price down enough to make it more useful and less as a collector's item
not a bad idea
Quote:
[21:02:14] McKinlay > it's always nice to be out-failed :P. there are no winners or losers just people that fail harder |
Glafri
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Posted - 2009.07.14 14:12:00 -
[17]
Got my vote
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A Sinner
THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY
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Posted - 2009.07.14 14:57:00 -
[18]
agreed
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:58:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 14/07/2009 16:58:21
You didn't even mention the worst of the bunch - the Blood ships. I want them to be awesome, but they're just not. Here's how I think the five factions lay out:
Sanshas: Perfect as-is. Needs no changes.
Serpentis: Just fine. Needs no changes.
Angels: Bonuses are okay, but ships are a bit weak. Needs a small buff of some variety(extra turrets, increased speed/reduced mass, something)
Guristas: The Rattlesnake is just a Raven with a crappy third bonus nobody uses, and it's basically the same for the Gila and Worm. I'd like to see these changed into ships with a role. ECM/Blaster or maybe ECM/Rail seems a natural option to me - give DPS, ECM strength, and either range or tracking.
Blood: Worst of the bunch. Three bonuses with absolutely nothing in common. I don't think it's actually possible to make a coherent ship out of the Blood vessels these days. It's hard to fix this while keeping true to the Blood faction - the best I can come up with is to make the ship's base bonus be that it uses the old rules for nossing, where relative cap levels don't matter. Expensive faction ships can be awesome like that without wrecking the game, and it gives you a reason to fit a couple nos on your ship and fill the rest with lasery death. Oh yeah, and change the laser bonus away from cap use and to DPS, maybe even ROF, to make nos-users even happier. Leave the web bonus, or maybe improve upon it(to +30%/level, say). You take the Bhaalgorn from being a billion-isk neuting support ship that can't actually fight to being a ship that does battleship DPS, steals 20 or 30 cap a second under the old rules, and can hold enemies down to leech off of and kill at range.
With these changes, I think the Blood and Gurista failboats become viable solo ships, while keeping a role in smaller gangs as well. Obviously, no faction BS is ever going to do well in fleet combat, but I think that these would make them work a whole lot better at the roles where they can actually be used reasonably.
But yeah, supporting some kind of change for sure.
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Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2009.07.15 01:30:00 -
[20]
Supported.
For the most part any faction ship sub-BS is pretty much pointless, save for the Sansha ships and even they get outclassed pretty easily by a T2 equivalent.
Blood Raiders = laughable with the introduction of Recons.
Yes, a long hard look needs to be directed toward faction ships to make them more than dust collectors.
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Arcane Azmadi
First Flying Wing Inc
Primary.
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Posted - 2009.07.15 14:21:00 -
[21]
Support, for the love of god, support! And add in faction battlecruisers while you're at it!
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2009.07.15 16:56:00 -
[22]
Faction ships need love.
iirc T1 got boosted to close the gap to T2, Faction ships did not inherihit the boost from the T1 hull and were supposed to be looked at later.
I dont hink this ever happened for older Faction ships , although some of the newer additions might be ok.
Faction ship overhaul gets my vote.
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Mahai Ano
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.07.15 22:50:00 -
[23]
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Grann Thefauto
Internal Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.07.15 23:28:00 -
[24]
These desperately need a rebalance. Especially the Ashimmu.
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Nur AlHuda
Callide Vulpis
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Posted - 2009.07.16 19:49:00 -
[25]
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Gaven Darklighter
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Posted - 2009.07.22 07:18:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Vanessa Vasquez
I think we can all agree that pvp is pretty much T2.
methinks notsomuch
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Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
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Posted - 2009.07.22 14:51:00 -
[27]
In need of an urgent update.
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Slave 2739FKZ
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Posted - 2009.07.22 16:33:00 -
[28]
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Bunzan Cardinal
The Artists
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Posted - 2009.07.22 17:20:00 -
[29]
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Verys
Burning Technologies
Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2009.07.22 18:21:00 -
[30]
These ships have been neglected for ages and need to be brought up again. They need some rebalancing for sure and even maybe a look at the drop rates of the bpc's.
I for one would also like to see them all have unique looks other than just a new skin. The only pirate factions which now have unique ships are the sansha's and the angels (with some stock ships). This is ofcourse eyecandy but would make faction ships stand out more (and not just a select few).
Full support.
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