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EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.

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Originally by: Furb Killer

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-1.0 true sec space is fine, -0.01 not. In general ccp should make all high true sec 0.0 better.

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Originally by: Jaina Proudmoar

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Right problem, wrong solution.

ISK inflation in the game is already a huge problem - while I agree that L4 highsec missions paying more than 0.0 ratting doesn't make sense on the risk-reward scale, this is not the answer.

Nerf missions - don't boost ratting.

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Originally by: Jaina Proudmoar

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ISK inflation in the game is already a huge problem

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Also too many wrecks to salvage/loot for solo.

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Originally by: CCP Mitnal

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I don't sleep.
I am always here.
Watching.
Waiting.

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Originally by: CCP Mitnal

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it does get progressively longer.

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Originally by: Dav Varan

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There is little risk ratting in 0 when you have intel channels and are surrounded by blue and can warp to pos/safe and cloak when neutral/hostile in local.

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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As someone who makes most a lot of money ratting in 0.0, I'd say NO to this idea but I have a counter proposal:

Currently, the faction spawn distribution is slanted heavily in favor of those people who spawn belts right after DT. In general, my experience shows that I get AT LEAST 30% (now maybe 60%) more commander and officer spawns when I search belts after DT than I do when I farm hours later

Fix to income distribution to be independent of time zones and you will see a more profitable 0.0 - from point of view of regular people.
To achieve this, CCP would need to add a special flag in the spawn generation code, that if it is the very first spawn after server reboot, then it will never be a faction spawn. Faction spawn would only have a chance of appearing if you, or someone else, has killed at least 1 default spawn.

However, since eliminating faction spawn chance from first spawn after dt would significantly reduce to overall rate of finding commanders/officers, the default random algorithm should be adjusted to increase the chances of getting faction spawns. In my estimate, the chances would need to be upped by about 20%.

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Originally by: Dave Meltdown

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If u get a officer spawn u might earn more than L4's. Im playing eve for over 2 yrs, 1 yr ratting in 0.0 and i only had a offcier spawn once. A ahremen meta 13 that dropped a ahremen armour expl hadner ahremen cabbooster and 250m db stuff. Close to a bilion in loot. How fast do u have a bilion isk worth in LP's?

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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As someone who makes most a lot of money ratting in 0.0, I'd say NO to this idea but I have a counter proposal:

Currently, the faction spawn distribution is slanted heavily in favor of those people who spawn belts right after DT. In general, my experience shows that I get AT LEAST 30% (now maybe 60%) more commander and officer spawns when I search belts after DT than I do when I farm hours later

Fix to income distribution to be independent of time zones and you will see a more profitable 0.0 - from point of view of regular people.
To achieve this, CCP would need to add a special flag in the spawn generation code, that if it is the very first spawn after server reboot, then it will never be a faction spawn. Faction spawn would only have a chance of appearing if you, or someone else, has killed at least 1 default spawn.

However, since eliminating faction spawn chance from first spawn after dt would significantly reduce to overall rate of finding commanders/officers, the default random algorithm should be adjusted to increase the chances of getting faction spawns. In my estimate, the chances would need to be upped by about 20%.

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Originally by: BOOYA MOFO

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Edited by: BOOYA MOFO on 17/07/2009 02:36:22
Agree with Ephemeron.
The faction spawns at this time are really worthless...
The nerf to them was a total load of bull.

And a slight correction to bounties as well wouldn't hurt.

Ephemeron, come to N-54. want your Gotan's 425mm's/

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Originally by: Tiger's Spirit

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Not supported and pls dont write an another topic for i need more officer spawn in 0.0

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Originally by: mazzilliu

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[

how about this idea?
the unnamed module drops should be removed, and high meta level named modules drops increased. and leave isk bounties, faction, officer, everything else as they are.

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

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Originally by: mazzilliu

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[

how about this idea?
the unnamed module drops should be removed, and high meta level named modules drops increased. and leave isk bounties, faction, officer, everything else as they are.

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It will nerf ratting income, not increase it.

Currently a player ratting in bad 0.0 can get more than 10 millions/hour in minerals from recycling loot.

With your proposal he would have a lot of meta 1-4 items that will recycle for less minerals and be worthless as they are over-abundant.

so you would exchange 10+ millions in minerals for modules that will refine for 3-4 millions and will not sell as everyone in that area will have tons of them.

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Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal

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Not that sure ratting needs a boost to be honest. Everything needs to be looked at to fix the risk/reward between high sec lvl4 missions and anything in low or no sec.
Add to this that it probably needs to be tied into the probable changes to 0.0, sov and all that for it to make sense I think it might be hard to balance without tweeking just about every source of income in the game.

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Originally by: mazzilliu

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i have always been of the opinion that nerfing highsec missions would simply cause a cancelled subscription problem for CCP. i've always been under the impression that many people are not willing to take assets to lowsec or 0.0 for any reason, and that the solution for balancing is to increase the rewards of low/0sec while leaving highsec untouched.

i do think that changing 0.0 ratting will have a big impact on the game but i think that it needs to be looked at for the sake of casual players who tend to use this resource more then anyone else.

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Originally by: Dave Meltdown

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Originally by: mazzilliu

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i have always been of the opinion that nerfing highsec missions would simply cause a cancelled subscription problem for CCP. i've always been under the impression that many people are not willing to take assets to lowsec or 0.0 for any reason, and that the solution for balancing is to increase the rewards of low/0sec while leaving highsec untouched.

i do think that changing 0.0 ratting will have a big impact on the game but i think that it needs to be looked at for the sake of casual players who tend to use this resource more then anyone else.

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Npc'ing has a very big inpact and simply nerfing l4's isnt a option ether. Adjusting drop rates can a solution but i think this need to be studied by CCP. Different rats drop different loot that refines/sells for different amounts. So a general solution can be difficult. The perfect solution could be adding a "proof" of killing a NPC at a concord station vs fixed prices. Im talking about adding items similar to the blue sleeper scripts that are in every sleeper wreck. A bs should drop more valued scrip than a cruiser. This would make it fair vs the ratter that chains for more BS spawns and the one that kills every NPC for the chance on a faction NPC. Or maybe bringing back the old 'Logs" that did drop a year ago random for each rat and let those be worth something at concord stations. Because this happens totaly random only the looters will profit and it wont profit the macro users. I have no idea how much they should be worth. I think my last solution is better than the first 1. Maybe to avoid inflation u get LP's vs the 'Logs" and a brand new Concord LP Store. This would make ratting vs missioning more in line and the macro's dont get any Lp's.

Exact numbers are hard to come with, i think only CCP can figur that out with complicated loot drop formulas. For that reson i think CCP need to come with a solution were they can live with after they placed l4 mission next to NPC'ing

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Originally by: mazzilliu

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i have always been of the opinion that nerfing highsec missions would simply cause a cancelled subscription problem for CCP. i've always been under the impression that many people are not willing to take assets to lowsec or 0.0 for any reason, and that the solution for balancing is to increase the rewards of low/0sec while leaving highsec untouched.

i do think that changing 0.0 ratting will have a big impact on the game but i think that it needs to be looked at for the sake of casual players who tend to use this resource more then anyone else.

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Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal

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Originally by: mazzilliu

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i have always been of the opinion that nerfing highsec missions would simply cause a cancelled subscription problem for CCP. i've always been under the impression that many people are not willing to take assets to lowsec or 0.0 for any reason, and that the solution for balancing is to increase the rewards of low/0sec while leaving highsec untouched.

i do think that changing 0.0 ratting will have a big impact on the game but i think that it needs to be looked at for the sake of casual players who tend to use this resource more then anyone else.

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I agree that plainly nerfing mission running isn't the right way either.
I just think that there are no quick and easy fixes and everything will have to be looked at since it all connects.
For simplicities sake lets assume we add more module drops to ratting in 0.0, how does that in turn affect mining profitability?
So just boosting ratting is in my opinion a bit to simple as it can have serious effects to either inflation (making the boost worthless) or other professions (increasing the mineral supply from module reprocessing).
It is a hard balance which means it doesn't have simple sollutions.

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Originally by: Lone Gunman

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Yes overpowered would be giving a ship with the Covert ops cloak the ability to fire say..Torpedos, now that would be overpowered. But CCP would

Originally by: Terra Mikael

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I disagree.

Most zero sec dwellers are bigger carebears then their high sec counterparts. Zero sec is just a big money making machine. Now if local was removed from zero sec, I could imagine up'ing profits, but as it stands, most people just log when hostiles enter local.

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Originally by: Terra Mikael

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I disagree.

Most zero sec dwellers are bigger carebears then their high sec counterparts. Zero sec is just a big money making machine. Now if local was removed from zero sec, I could imagine up'ing profits, but as it stands, most people just log when hostiles enter local.

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Originally by: Dave Meltdown

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U make more isk PER HOUR by grinding l4's than ratting or plexing in 0.0. The plexes arent even worth the effort cause u always need to split the rewards becasue u cant solo them. That brings back the issue of security, less isk more risk in 0.0....

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Originally by: Slave 2739FKZ

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Good 0.0 is fine, is the problem of the corp/alliance if they fail at exploiting and aiding their members as they should: moons & plexes (and almost all of them can pretty much be run by two guys, or one and his alt, which is not uncommon for 0.0 players to have) can make a lot of money.

Belt rats allready have an higher chance for higher meta drops, and in general more drop, again not our fault if ratters can't be bothered to loot it (yeah I know there are bigger inconveniences about hauling stuff etc. but still is part of the sandbox is players fail to create a local market about it, and anyway in the age of jumpbridges and JF, lol). In case of players residing in NPC regions that are nto as secure as territory with sov, they have higher chance for faction/officer, so it evens out.

One thing though is true, changes proposed by Ephemeron should be implemented as is a no brainer that people that can log after DT has higher profit that anyone else.

Bad 0.0 needs a boost though, is just not right you can earn more in empire than there, but as has been stated, only CCP knows all the details about the bounties & drops and how it all is even out. One change I would make though is to mvoe from a direct bounty to tags model for everything. This way you would accomplish two things: you force everyone to loot stuff (including hisec runners) so is easier to control ratios between minerals & isk, and on the other side you force players to haul stuff, so it can be intercepted by other players. In hisec mission runners would have to transport them to concord stations, which could be camped by gankers or hisec wardeccing corps or sell to players buy orders (probably losing money).

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Originally by: Slave 2739FKZ

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Good 0.0 is fine, is the problem of the corp/alliance if they fail at exploiting and aiding their members as they should: moons & plexes (and almost all of them can pretty much be run by two guys, or one and his alt, which is not uncommon for 0.0 players to have) can make a lot of money.

Belt rats allready have an higher chance for higher meta drops, and in general more drop, again not our fault if ratters can't be bothered to loot it (yeah I know there are bigger inconveniences about hauling stuff etc. but still is part of the sandbox is players fail to create a local market about it, and anyway in the age of jumpbridges and JF, lol). In case of players residing in NPC regions that are nto as secure as territory with sov, they have higher chance for faction/officer, so it evens out.

One thing though is true, changes proposed by Ephemeron should be implemented as is a no brainer that people that can log after DT has higher profit that anyone else.

Bad 0.0 needs a boost though, is just not right you can earn more in empire than there, but as has been stated, only CCP knows all the details about the bounties & drops and how it all is even out. One change I would make though is to mvoe from a direct bounty to tags model for everything. This way you would accomplish two things: you force everyone to loot stuff (including hisec runners) so is easier to control ratios between minerals & isk, and on the other side you force players to haul stuff, so it can be intercepted by other players. In hisec mission runners would have to transport them to concord stations, which could be camped by gankers or hisec wardeccing corps or sell to players buy orders (probably losing money).

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Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal

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Most moons are not profitable to exploit, so making a profit from that isn't as simple as it might sound.

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

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Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal

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Most moons are not profitable to exploit, so making a profit from that isn't as simple as it might sound.

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It is not only moon mining. At the POSes you can build supercapitals, do simple and complex reactions.

Every one of those activities give a revenue, be it paying a lesser costs building your supercapitals than buying them or selling advanced materials at a higher price than the basic components.

So even barren moons, if used the right way, can give a profit.

If that is enough to make a difference depend on the corp organization.

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