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TornSoul BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.07.02 18:51:00 - [1] BTF.BIG-EVE.COM As of this post the BIG Trust Fund is open to the general public. It has in fact been operating for the past 4 months already, as it was decided to do an extended "pilot run" before opening it up to the general public. So what is the BIG Trust Fund excactly? Basically it's a way for you to pass on a monthly income from production of (valuable) T2 BPO's to friends, perpetually, should you decide to retire as capsuleer. The front page of the BIG Trust Fund website describes this in tree short paragraphs, just with a bit more embelishment - Please go have a look. ------ If retirering as a capsuleer, you have a couple of options with regards to your possessions: 1: Do nothing, just leave them (Good thing if you choose to come out of retirement) 2: Liquidate all or parts, and distribute the ISK and none liquidated items among friends. The BIG Trust Fund offers a 3rd option 3: Keep the most valuable ISK making items (almost by default expensive T2 BPO's) in production with a trusted 3rd party, who takes care of of distributing the profits to designated Beneficiaries each month. The main advantage of the BIG Trust Fund option is that, over time, it will accrue a greater amount of ISK for the Beneficiaries. The problem is of course finding that trusted 3rd party. 4 months ago (lets call him) Mr X chose BIG as that trusted 3rd party. Mr X approaching me about this came totally out of the blue, and was somewhat bittersweet, as it's someone I've personally had other business relationships with over quite a number of years, and I'm quite sad to see him retire. However once the proposal was made, and the technicalities sorted out (actually before ), the idea took hold with me to expand this to others as well. Mr X thought it a great idea as well, and I dedicate the idea of the BIG Trust Fund to him. And as they say, the rest is history - The multiple Beneficiaries Mr X designated has since recieved a generous monthly payout, that easily can keep them playing EVE forever. BIG Lottery
TornSoul BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.07.02 18:52:00 - [2] I hope you enjoyed the litte writeup about the "birth" of the BIG Trust Fund I thought it would make the post a bit more interesting than "just another ad" for a service. One other thing I'd like to mention is that I've been a bit torn between where to post this post... MD or sell forum? Ultimatly I decided on MD, as I believe that's where most of the BIG Trust Fund's potential "clients" will come from anyhow. I'd also like to add that I don't expect the BIG Trust Fund to be a roaring monster of monthly ISK payouts (that's not why I'm doing it) - In fact my expectations are something in the order of 0(zero) to 2 new clients a year. The reason for this low expectation is mainly that it's a very very select few that can actually take advantage of the service in the first place, and of those, most will probably just chose to liquidate. But for those few who wishes to beget their friends with a nice monthly income - There it is. BIG Lottery
Dzil Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.07.02 19:20:00 - [3] Good luck with your business... you may want to consider either creating some sort of advertising in your signature, or an off EVE resource like the eve expo - especially if you only expect to take in 1-2 clients/year as your visibility will be very very minimal. ---------------------- Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m for 7+ standings ----------------------
XyphonSinclaire BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.07.02 19:46:00 - [4] Originally by: Dzil Good luck with your business... you may want to consider either creating some sort of advertising in your signature, or an off EVE resource like the eve expo - especially if you only expect to take in 1-2 clients/year as your visibility will be very very minimal. Visibility shouldn't be too much of an issue, considering the variety of other services BIG provides, including (but not limited to) The Big Lottery. /end shameless plug
Selene D'Celeste Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six	Posted - 2009.07.02 21:49:00 - [5] I like this. Good people to be doing it too =D
Drab Cane Mining Emporium inc.	Posted - 2009.07.03 01:49:00 - [6] Excellent idea! I'm not familiar with BIG's inner workings - are there already measures in place to help the corp outlast any individual director/CEO? ----------------------------------------------- - Who Dares, Wins
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2009.07.03 09:34:00 - [7] I.B.2 doesn't make any sense, I think you're missing a negative. WTS Tech II Component BPO Sets \| Auction Prowler
Chaos Dreams	Posted - 2009.07.03 10:20:00 - [8] Posting to confirm my willingness to be the beneficiary of anyone's endowment who would like to make use of this service and is looking for a worthy recipient.
TornSoul BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.07.04 16:50:00 - [9] @Drab Cabe Bar every BIG member getting hit by a bus at the same time, there should not be any problems Originally by: Ray McCormack I.B.2 doesn't make any sense, I think you're missing a negative. I.B.2 in full states : The Beneficiaries shall retain nor carry any rights to the Assets I don't see a problem with it? Could you elaborate? BIG Lottery
James Tundra Gallente Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.07.04 17:02:00 - [10] Originally by: TornSoul I.B.2 in full states : The Beneficiaries shall retain nor carry any rights to the Assets The method with which you use the word, "nor" is considered archaic, the usage of the word nor is to be used after the negative word neither. Nor is used after neither to introduce the second member in a series, which is also negative. The proper usage with your sentence would be, The Beneficiaries shall neither retain nor carry any rights to the Assets

James Tundra Gallente Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.07.04 17:03:00 - [11] Edited by: James Tundra on 04/07/2009 17:03:24 Double post is fail post.
Frenden Dax Dax Acquisitions	Posted - 2009.07.04 22:00:00 - [12] Originally by: James Tundra Originally by: TornSoul I.B.2 in full states : The Beneficiaries shall retain nor carry any rights to the Assets The method with which you use the word, "nor" is considered archaic, the usage of the word nor is to be used after the negative word neither. Nor is used after neither to introduce the second member in a series, which is also negative. The proper usage with your sentence would be, The Beneficiaries shall neither retain nor carry any rights to the Assets Confirming that this is the case.
TornSoul BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.07.05 20:04:00 - [13] Edited by: TornSoul on 05/07/2009 20:04:38 Based on the feedback here the wording has been changed. Thanks. BIG Lottery
suicide2121 Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2009.07.06 03:48:00 - [14] Fantastic service Torn. Highly recomended for anyone who will be leaving eve and wants to leave their friends wealth that will last and not be spent on something and blown up a week later. Torn is responsible, trustworthy and a valued member of the eve community.
ShadowandLight Amarr Hammer Of Light Praetorian Guards.	Posted - 2009.08.05 20:53:00 - [15] Torn, great service, but may i add a suggestion instead of keeping it forever, why not something like 12 months then, provided they give u a secert password that was assigned when they 1st signed up, they get the BPO Back I think it will get you MORE customers if they feel like one day sometime in the future they will get the BPO back in their possession. Either way, you rock, BIG rocks... and
Trustworthy Joe	Posted - 2009.08.05 21:03:00 - [16] i like this. good luck with it! _______________________ with a name as trustworthy as mine, i cant POSSIBLY be an alt Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails <-- this is your brain on boosters
BuckStrider Wreckless Abandon Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.08.05 21:59:00 - [17] I can see a BIG ripoff in the future.
Kalrand	Posted - 2009.08.05 22:48:00 - [18] Quote: Section C: # Should a Beneficiary abandon their share, their share shall be distributed to the remaining Beneficiaries in accordance to their existing share of the Trust 1. Abandoned shares can not be re-claimed at a later date. # Should a sole Beneficiary abandon their share, their share shall be distributed to charity at the discretion of the Trustee 1. The BIG Lottery is a registred charity Define abandoned? What if someone unsubs for a few months?
Herschel Yamamoto Agent-Orange	Posted - 2009.08.05 22:57:00 - [19] Originally by: BuckStrider I can see a BIG ripoff in the future. Given how BIG their anniversary lotteries have gotten, I see no reason to worry excessively about this. If they don't steal 120 bil of ticket money, they're not going to steal BPOs worth some tens of bil. Also, Torn, I'd say that your proposal would have a lot higher chance of success if you said that the donor kept the nominal ownership of the assets. You're taking 20% of the profits, so even if they take back the asset, you've still been compensated for the time you invested in it.
Elenos	Posted - 2009.08.06 10:06:00 - [20] Edited by: Elenos on 06/08/2009 10:07:27 Forgive my understanding. You pay into the BIG trust fund and then when you quit the game you promise to give monthly returns to my beneficiary - except - I've quit the game, so I can't tell / don't care if you are doing it or not. So essentially I am plying you with money until the day i quit and then you cash in with no obligation to pay out to the other party. Its a great idea for the trustworthy. But losing a hulk and being podded by new corp members makes me feel less trusting of everyone.

Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.08.06 10:27:00 - [21] Originally by: Elenos Edited by: Elenos on 06/08/2009 10:07:27 Forgive my understanding. You pay into the BIG trust fund and then when you quit the game you promise to give monthly returns to my beneficiary - except - I've quit the game, so I can't tell / don't care if you are doing it or not. So essentially I am plying you with money until the day i quit and then you cash in with no obligation to pay out to the other party. Its a great idea for the trustworthy. But losing a hulk and being podded by new corp members makes me feel less trusting of everyone. I am guessing you never read the actual deal description :) _________________ - Rivqua - --- R.E.P.O. ---
Admiral IceBlock Caldari Northern Intelligence	Posted - 2009.08.06 10:30:00 - [22] I would advise against investing in this IPO. Want to know more?
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.08.06 10:44:00 - [23] Quote: Its a great idea for the trustworthy. But losing a hulk and being podded by new corp members makes me feel less trusting of everyone. So, you choose a corp where their own members pod you but still preach an established corp how untrustworthly they are? - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Elenos	Posted - 2009.08.06 12:09:00 - [24] Don't turn the words around. I was asking for clarification on the proposal in simple words. I joined the corp, we had fun together, then new people joined who turned out to be scumbags. I still don't see how the idea offers anything to people. Once you have left the game you have empowered a 3rd party to look after your stuff and continue to produce from it and distribute the profits to a beneficiary. Explain to me how other than trusting the OP, the beneficiaries stand to gain anything from this ? I am NOT slating the trustworthiness of the OP. But at face value this is an elaborate "can I have your stuff when you quit" plea. The idea behind it - reward your trusted mates when you can longer play is very admirable however the mechanism is so open to abuse the idea would just seem implausible. If you had unconditional trust to the third party then it makes sense. However if the 3rd party defaults then the people upset are a) the beneficiary who has no power over the controlled goods and b) you, if you come back to the game and find someone making profits off your old stuff and refusing to give/sell it back to you or pay out any dividend to your chosen beneficiary.
Fleshbot	Posted - 2009.08.06 16:53:00 - [25] Or just leave it to the Eve University. These guys provide a great service. You can always dish out your other assets to your friends (I presume if you have a profitable BPO you lots of other assests as well). Incidentally what happens after your friends retire? Does the money just get deposited into the dead account
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2009.08.06 17:09:00 - [26] Elenos, you should do some research before you start questioning possibly the most trusted corp and individual in EVE history. Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Teras Menac Gallente Caldari POS Constructions Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.06 17:18:00 - [27] How are you managing the work to keep those BPOs producing? Is that what your corp is going to be dedicated to? Is there a limit to your capacity to manage various BPOs?
Teavan Gallente First CityWide Change Bank	Posted - 2009.08.06 17:32:00 - [28] I am astounded at the number of people that don't know BIG.
Elenos	Posted - 2009.08.06 18:45:00 - [29] Originally by: Ray McCormack Elenos, you should do some research before you start questioning possibly the most trusted corp and individual in EVE history. umm this bit was relevant "I am NOT slating the trustworthiness of the OP." I even put it in capitals :-/
TornSoul BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.08.06 19:09:00 - [30] Originally by: ShadowandLight Torn, great service, but may i add a suggestion instead of keeping it forever, why not something like 12 months then, provided they give u a secert password that was assigned when they 1st signed up, they get the BPO Back I think it will get you MORE customers if they feel like one day sometime in the future they will get the BPO back in their possession. Either way, you rock, BIG rocks... and We might expand it to something like that in the future (I'm not ruling it out) The main reason for not doing it right away is that I the first while would like to keep everything in the spirit of the favor Mr X asked me for. Ie. his "Can/would you do this for me?" I'd like to keep as close to that simple promise/idea as possible, so that it's truly his last will that unfolds (both with the BPO's he left behind, and with the idea itself) Secondly - As a personal preference I prefer to keep things as much IC/ingame as at all possible (which rules out the out-of-game hokey-dokey identity stuff for now) --- Originally by: Kalrand Define abandoned? What if someone unsubs for a few months? If someone unsubs for a several months without letting us know, they do run the risk of being declared as having abandoned their share. Roughly quarterly I will check if people are still around, or if I'm simply wasting time and ISK, wiring their share into a black hole. It's hard to set up a hard rule for this. But we are not in any rush to declare shares abandonded. --- Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Also, Torn, I'd say that your proposal would have a lot higher chance of success if you said that the donor kept the nominal ownership of the assets. You're taking 20% of the profits, so even if they take back the asset, you've still been compensated for the time you invested in it. See my reply to ShadowandLight. This whole concept has all kinds of possible extensions and add'ons that can be implemented. But for now I'm keeping it simple (see reply to ShadowandLight again) --- Originally by: Elenos I still don't see how the idea offers anything to people. Once you have left the game you have empowered a 3rd party to look after your stuff and continue to produce from it and distribute the profits to a beneficiary. Explain to me how other than trusting the OP, the beneficiaries stand to gain anything from this ? <snip> If you had unconditional trust to the third party then it makes sense. Please read about how this whole thing came about in the first place. It wasn't my idea, but that of a Settlor who came to me. So... Trust was there from the outset. If you don't have that trust, the BTF is not for you - Simple as that. There's really not much else I can add to put your worries at bay I'm afraid. --- Originally by: Teras Menac How are you managing the work to keep those BPOs producing? Is that what your corp is going to be dedicated to? Is there a limit to your capacity to manage various BPOs? In the BIG scheme of things it's hardly even a drop in the bucket compared to all the other stuff BIG is involved in. We have been doing pretty much the same thing for years with the BMBE (but for a limited time at a time - until a loan is paid of), no to mentione the BIG Deal, and various other ventures. Is there a limit? Theoretically I guess there is, but Practically we are no where near it. BIG Lottery



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