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Probed down but no combat probes in sight

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Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.05 17:41:00 - [1] Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 17:42:45 Originally by: Jimer Lins I believe that the best solution to this would be to allow probes to be filtered for on the scanner, and to have an auto-repeat feature which re-scans every 5 seconds. nice way to make the game cater for the lazy. Why not just have an "auto Mission" button that completes it for him, holds correct ranges + alingment, monitors scans and docks when in danger. he comes back after work X100M Richer each day. OR he could get his lazy ass back to hi sec. If he doesnt know by now to jet can on the mission entry point and move 50k away, staying alinged then i'm sure theres a handful of tricks he missing which will result in more "exploit" complaints... BACK TO HI SEC NUBBER
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.05 17:43:00 - [2] Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 17:46:24 Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: Sorted Originally by: Jimer Lins I believe that the best solution to this would be to allow probes to be filtered for on the scanner, and to have an auto-repeat feature which re-scans every 5 seconds. nice way to make the game cater for the lazy. Why not just have an "auto Mission" button that completes it for him, holds correct ranges + alingment, monitors scans and docks when in danger. he comes back after work X100M Richer each day. Because an autorepeat on scanner completely removes every risk in lowsec, C/D lazy... not all risk he could still sit still like a stoned monkey while tackled... just LAZY, c/d? If he cant be botherd to scan, ok.. auto scanner. What about alinging out? Auto alingment. Ok Watching local? how about a big warning pop up NEW LOCAL AWWOOGH. Clicking warp to dock. CBA? ok. auto warp to dock. hell you would do it, so why not take away the effort. OK. thats in Whats next?
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.05 17:52:00 - [3] What? Your saying the game isnt catering to the lazy more so than it did in the past? Or that it is, buts it ok atm. Wheres the line which CCP will inevitbly cross for you?
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.05 18:12:00 - [4] Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 18:13:13 Originally by: Exlegion Edited by: Exlegion on 05/07/2009 18:06:00 Originally by: Sorted OR he could get his lazy ass back to hi sec. If he doesnt know by now to jet can on the mission entry point and move 50k away, staying alinged then i'm sure theres a handful of tricks he missing which will result in more "exploit" complaints... BACK TO HI SEC NUBBER Relax, take a deep breath. I'm merely pointing out that having to press a button every 5 seconds is not realistic. You're going on a tangent and you seem to be losing your temper on the way. Re-read the OP and feel free to give your opinions on the subject. But just to clear some misconceptions from your behalf, I'm not a "nubber"; been running missions in low sec space for a long time now. My issue isn't with staying aligned or moving 50,000 meters away from the warp-in point. The only other thing I can suggest you to do to better understand the issue is run missions yourself. Give it a try. Do it in low sec. Spam the button every 5 seconds, go through the results, and then come share your findings with us. By the way, try to add more substance besides calling me "lazy", a "monkey", or "nubber". That's all fine and dandy, but some substance would be nice as well :). I've ganked more mission runners than most, I know how offensivly easy it is to avoid 99% of ganks. If you cba to scan, as well as take other afformentioned precautions then back to highsec with ya, you want the reward without the effort/risk - or so it seems to me. If you can be botherd to scan, and do take extra precatuions then even if you miss the probes you are alinged, 50k from warp in and your can just decloaked the tackler anyway. You have so MANY saftey features already, and now your calling exploit when there is none, wanting MORE features to make your mission running safer/easier. PS I called you a nubber. The Lazy Monkey comments were whining mission running nubber generalisations.
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.05 18:14:00 - [5] Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 18:14:45 Originally by: Exlegion Spam the button every 5 seconds, go through the results, and then come share your findings with us. I Do this all the time in low sec, on my main and my scouts when unknown neutrals in local. Every 3 Secs actually, but thats splitting hairs.
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.05 18:16:00 - [6] Originally by: Exlegion The only other thing I can suggest you to do to better understand the issue is run missions yourself. Give it a try. Try it the other way round, try and catch someone running missions in low sec and call balance then.
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.05 18:18:00 - [7] Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 18:19:08 Originally by: Exlegion I want low sec to be worthwhile running missions in. Having to dock every time a neutral jumps in because I now cannot be sure if he'll be probing me brings low security's profitability down to the ground. That is my problem with this. Drop a Can at your mission warp in, move 50k away, stay alinged. cry less. OR DOCK OR Go back to highsec I dont care really either way, got 40 mins to kill till shift end, and home time.
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.05 18:27:00 - [8] Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 18:31:21 Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 18:29:51 Originally by: Exlegion Edited by: Exlegion on 05/07/2009 18:21:52 Originally by: Sorted Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 18:14:45 Originally by: Exlegion Spam the button every 5 seconds, go through the results, and then come share your findings with us. I Do this all the time in low sec, on my main and my scouts when unknown neutrals in local. Every 3 Secs actually, but thats splitting hairs. You spam the button every 3 seconds and also have time to sort through the results? All this while concentrating on something else (ie, mission-running)? How long do you spend accomplishing all this at the same time? 30 minutes? 45 minutes? I have to admit, you are pretty good at this, assuming you're not exagerating. I spam the button on the fwd/back scout, while organising the gang, re positioning based on intel from my own scouts or Alt. During an engagement this carries on while I call primary/secondary and remind the newer pilots I am with on overload, range, drones, Nos/neuts on the Sec/Prim, check my own ranges, run my ECM alt (ranges, matching race to race ecm, cap tacklers, positions, bookmarks and warp ins), manage my cap + overload, rep cycles, check drone damage and transersval, check local count and take intel on pilots ages in local infos. Yes. & I can still manage to scan for incoming ships either in system or next door. WHAT is your suggested alternaive to using the scanner reguarly? WHAT is your favorite colour? AND WHAT is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow. EDIT: If anyone else wants to FC gangs I am more than happy to sit back and do as I am told however! means I can drink more :)
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.05 18:29:00 - [9] Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 18:28:56 Originally by: Exlegion I have to admit, you are ungodly good at this, assuming you're not exaggerating. No i get distracted and make mistakes, I die, gang mates die. They mess up, we die. the margin for error is all that remains to ensure a good whalloping in un-consensual PVP now. (either to or by us)
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.05 18:32:00 - [10] Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 18:36:55 Originally by: Exlegion Originally by: Great Artista Originally by: Exlegion I hit the scan button every 30 to 60 seconds, more or less. Spotted the problem. Indeed . So my question is: Should I be realistically expected to spam every 5-10 seconds and sort through the results? Is it even humanly possible? According to Sorted, itthe answer is yes. But is this reasonable? yes if you would rather burn to 50k from your jet can and stay alinged then the risk/reward balance wins, you loose 5 secs warning and gain some.. urmm. respite from RSI? If you dont want the risk, then back to hi sec. So in summary. 1)Scan, 5 sec warning, 2)Dont scan and hope for the best 50k away from the warp in alinged to get out with a jet can for decloaking the tackler (you will stil have to watch the overview though) OR 3)back to high sec and run lvl 4s with less effort/reward. I really dont see the issue here. You scan evey 60 secs and miss the 8 sec prober, no exploit or trick in getting you from 99au or using a civ shield booster coupled with a tin foil hat to bust ur mission. You just dont scan fast enough and if you want to keep running in low sec then be aware the risk your personal skills bring to your mission boat.
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.05 18:54:00 - [11] Originally by: Exlegion Edited by: Exlegion on 05/07/2009 18:41:10 To put this a little more in perspective I'll give you the following example. If I'm running a mission near a moon for 30 minutes with a neutral in the system, I would need to hit the scan button 3012 = 360 times! AND go through the results each and every time to spot a combat probe* . This is a bit insane, don't you think? If you did it. IF you did it (which you havent) AND you are 50k from the warp in point can. HOW would anyone get you? If you want immunity then this seems sound. You get lazy and the gankers get an OPPORUNITY, you dont just insta blow up. choice is yours, 99.9% chance of not getting killed you put in the effort. sounds fine to me. So in summary if a low sec runner uses the tools availble he is 99% immune. BUT you want that immunty with much less effort? yes?
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.05 18:55:00 - [12] Originally by: Exlegion Edited by: Exlegion on 05/07/2009 18:52:57 Originally by: Caelum Dominus You don't understand. You are not meant to press the button every 3 seconds, because you are not meant to be entirely safe in EVE. And how is a cloaked cov ops probing for mission runners not 100% safe? Gas clouds, Jet cans, smartbomber traps
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.05 18:59:00 - [13] Originally by: Caelum Dominus I propose the risk stays, but the reward is increased. most intelligent comment in the thread tbfh. Off home. Enjoy the debate
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.05 23:27:00 - [14] Currently you have to scan every 5 secs, move 50k, and drop a can and you can cut your loss chance to minimal, BUT you want it back to scanning to every minute or two so while your mission running you need to put less effort in. Those nasty pirates can still bust your site either way (so your OP is pointless) and keep you from completing anyways. So what you want (from your last post) is immunity in lowsec so you dont have to comprimise isk per hour or default on mission. Summary, you want no risk with no effort, and max isk/hour in low sec. I have an answer! JOIN AN NPC CORP AND GO BACK TO HI SEC.
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.05 23:30:00 - [15] Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 23:31:37 Originally by: Roy Batty68 I usually side with the pirates and take the, "quit whining and actually play the game" stance when stuff like this comes up. But get a grip, guys. Having to hit a button every 5 seconds is a bit moronic. You can't seriously think that is a good idea for a game. Risk Repetitive Motion injuries if you want to be in lowsec. Uh... Seriously? The balance lies somewhere in how often that scan button has to be clicked. Sounds a bit on the broke side to me. If he does it right, and drops a can, stays alinged 50k from warp in there is such a small remote chance he can be caught its offensive. Human lazyness/error is the only chance mission busters have. If he wants to be lazy he has to admit the risk. if you want it so its EASIER to avoid the gank decrease the reward, OR inscreas the reward and let us warp to zero on the target rather than the gate. seems balanced at the moment, but re balancing is cool. Keep the scales in the middle though.
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.06 18:02:00 - [16] Originally by: Exlegion Edited by: Exlegion on 05/07/2009 23:47:14 So I'm lazy because I think smashing a button every 5 seconds and having to sort through the results is insane? Just. Wow. Come on, my friend. If this stays this way it will further desolate low security space from targets. You may not be concerned with this but eventually even pirates will start feeling the impact. This just isn't good for business. I admit I could be wrong on this. But I can't be that way off. Your wrong on this. Atm AS I HAVE SAID 3 TIMES ALREADY YET YOU STILL IGNORE "human error or lazyness is the only window of opportunity for tackling you in your mission". If that is reduced/removed it doesnt matter if lowsec fills with mission runners they will still be safe with zero effort. Atm those who want to take the risk put in the work and accept that less attention/work towards their own saftey increases the risk. Its the risk/reward at work - you want the low sec missions, work at your scanning/safety or assume the risk for your slackness. you SHOULD be levvying for increased low sec mission rewards - NOT for added easy mode saftey features. Like I said. BALANCE - remove the 8 sec need for scanning BUT let the prober land on your face? hows that - less effort for you, stay alined scan every 60 secs BUT if you get lazy the prober is on top of you? sound ok? you can come back with "BUT BUT.. BUT Its not fair I have to scan at all!" I REALY think you should be back in hisec in an NPC corp.
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.06 18:42:00 - [17] Originally by: Karlemgne Did you see any core probes? You did realize that people can probe ships with these, right? Welcome to low-sec. That's how things roll here. -Karlemnge He didnt see any probes. He doesnt scan often enough.
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.06 21:21:00 - [18] Originally by: James Lyrus Because we _want_ people to live (and mission run) in lowsec - more people in lowsec means more trade and more PvP. However if it is seriously not cost effective to do so - and it isn't, lowsec mission pay isn't _much_ more than highsec - it won't pay for a second person - then your mission runners will go back to highsec. It's not carebearism, it's common sense. your right! Nerf Hisec mission rewards, BUFF LOW SEC REWARDS. done. Keep the scanning probing as it is, or decrease the ammount people need to tap the scanner but let the mission buster land on the target at 0
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.06 22:22:00 - [19] Originally by: Exlegion button 540 times and go through the displayed results 540 times every 45 minutes just to guarantee you a fight? if it guaranteed a fight i would jump at the chance!
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.06 22:34:00 - [20] Originally by: Exlegion Originally by: Sorted Originally by: Exlegion button 540 times and go through the displayed results 540 times every 45 minutes just to guarantee you a fight? if it guaranteed a fight i would jump at the chance! I'm sorry, but I think you are being disengenuous. Or you simply just aren't thinking about what you are asking for. I think you have delibertaly ignored more than 1 very valid points about balance made on multiple occasions. I have suggested balanced alternatives to the 540 clicks yet your still being evasive in commenting on them. 540 clicks and correct precatuions stops you getting ganked. I'd click 600 times to ensure I gank you (or whoever) given the chance, and you clearly have no idea how frsutraing and awkward it is to catch an attentive (read: not lazy) pilot.
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.06 22:46:00 - [21] Originally by: Olleybear Increasing the reward for low sec has already been done. There are BS back in low sec belts. Molden Heath is still deserted. Add a nerf to highsec level 4s, a buff to low sec missions and were on a winner..
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.06 23:01:00 - [22] Originally by: Jimer Lins They 1) still have to watch it (many won't), and 2) still have to risk someone getting in the window. You'll still catch the stupid or lazy ones, and the ones that give themselves carpal tunnel by spamming the scan button will get away anyway. So you just want it made easy for the mission runners? lowering the "lazy" bar? thereby reducing the catch chance? change it so theres more in low sec by nerfing the highsec missions and that would be fine. Suggesting an alternative (to make it easier on the clicks without reducing the # of pilots caught) would be a good idea if you dont like that one however.
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.06 23:19:00 - [23] Originally by: Jimer Lins I don't necessarily have a better idea right this minute, let me know when you do. I AM open to suggestions.
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.08 10:12:00 - [24] Originally by: Olleybear This is not pvp. Its ganking. it IS PLAYER vs PLAYER. No one ever said it was fair. Welcome to EvE/Life.
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.08 10:49:00 - [25] Originally by: Ghoest They favor the hunter over the prey completely. You have never hunted. If they put the effort in they can escape 99 times out of 100
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.08 11:36:00 - [26] Edited by: Sorted on 08/07/2009 11:38:24 Originally by: Exlegion [ Ghoest is right. Onboard scanner + probes is horribly overpowered and skewed towards the hunter. You refuse to admit it because you're benefiting from this nonsense. You've even gone as far as saying that not smashing the button and going over results every 5 seconds and micromanaging the ship all at the same time is just me being "lazy". To be honest your statements show how far you're willing to go to gain an advantage in the game. You're willing to horribly handicap your prey to win over them. It's quite sad, TBH. You have clearly NEVER hunted. IF YOU DO IT RIGHT YOU CAN REDUCE YOUR CHANCE OF BEING CAUGHT TO NEARLY NIL. Change the 3 sec button bash to autorepeat, thats cool as I have to go through it myself anyways, BUT rebalance the reduced effort required by allowing the prober to land on 0. (rather than the gate). At the moment the only chance we have of a catch is if the prey gets lax in his precautions. The issue WAS the 3 sec button bash, remove that would reduce the catch chance as an absolute and THAT would be unbalancing. Read the rest of my posts you lazy nubber. How far am I willing to go? arguing with an idiot on the forums? ( I should of learned last time I argued with an idiot, you lowerd me to your level then beat me with experience!) BUT - answer this. Have you ever hunted ? Link mail pls.
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.08 11:41:00 - [27] Edited by: Sorted on 08/07/2009 11:41:19 Originally by: Exlegion You're willing to horribly handicap your prey to win over them. I'll gank 10 + falcon, Rapier, Arazu on 1 given a chance, it happens to me often enough (7 moms vs 1 BS lol) If you find yourself in a fair fight then something went wrong.
Sorted Highwaymen	Posted - 2009.07.15 12:32:00 - [28] Originally by: Exlegion but remember, if my mission is busted, even if I manage to get away, my profits hit the floor. So I want to try and keep my deadspace from being probed out. I hope this somewhat clears things a bit to those readers that are genuinely making an attempt to better understand the situation. THIS is what your whining about. PRE or POST Apoc its the same, your profits drop when your probed out END OF. Whine abotu 1 thing at at time to keep it simple for us idiots. Button bash scanner OR people busting your mission kills your profits. (Which in the 2nd case SHOULD be a lobby to boost low sec mission rewards to offset the busted loss)
Sorted Highwaymen	Posted - 2009.07.15 17:12:00 - [29] Originally by: Sorted Originally by: Exlegion but remember, if my mission is busted, even if I manage to get away, my profits hit the floor. So I want to try and keep my deadspace from being probed out. I hope this somewhat clears things a bit to those readers that are genuinely making an attempt to better understand the situation. THIS is what your whining about. PRE or POST Apoc its the same, your profits drop when your probed out END OF. Whine abotu 1 thing at at time to keep it simple for us idiots. Button bash scanner OR people busting your mission kills your profits. (Which in the 2nd case SHOULD be a lobby to boost low sec mission rewards to offset the busted loss)
Sorted Highwaymen	Posted - 2009.07.15 17:14:00 - [30] Edited by: Sorted on 15/07/2009 17:14:03 Originally by: Exlegion Perhaps someone that does understand what IÆm trying to say could help me out here, as I donÆt think IÆm doing a good job and for the life of me donÆt know how to . I dont think you even know what you want....
Sorted Highwaymen	Posted - 2009.07.17 13:09:00 - [31] Edited by: Sorted on 17/07/2009 13:11:48 New system: They bust your mission in under a min, you spot them as they get into your mission, but you are 50k awat and alinged, you dock and stay docked while they are in system (or anyone you dont know - as they could be a cloaker on the entry gate). Isk per hour suffers. Old System: They try to bust your mission, you spot the probes during the few mins it usualy takes, you warp off and dock so they dont get your mission site (very clever, well done). You dock and stay docked while they are in system (or anyone you dont know - as they could be a cloaker on the entry gate). Isk per hour suffers. Differneces please? You have to hit the scanner every 5 to TRY and stop them getting your site in instance 1, you have to do it every 30 secs in instance 2. Both end in the same result and your isk/hour suffers. WHICH seems to be the issue. Levy for an isk/mission boost to low sec, you would probably get more support than whining about the scanner. EDIT: Probing does not equal scannig... NB: You seemed to be complaing about the 5 sec button bash in the OP, but switched to the isk/hour mission busting, can you clarify what the current complaint is please.
Sorted Highwaymen	Posted - 2009.07.17 14:37:00 - [32] So in summary, IF you know your being probed, you dock and cant complete while they are in local (old system) IF you carry on UNTIL you are probed (as you cant tell till they land) you warp off as you are nicely 50k away alinged. and you cant complete while they are in local. Result is the same as far as I can see.
Sorted Highwaymen	Posted - 2009.07.18 09:19:00 - [33] Edited by: Sorted on 18/07/2009 09:20:27 Originally by: Exlegion Example: Pre-Apocrypha 1. Event: Neutral enters system. I donÆt know if heÆs a pirate or not. 2. Action: Keep doing missions until probes are spotted on my scanner (i.e., profit). 3. Result: Mission deadspace remains unknown. Post-Apocrypha 1. Event: Neutral enters system. I donÆt know if heÆs a pirate or not. 2. Action: Dock (i.e., NO PROFIT FOR U!) 3. Result: Mission deadspace remains unknown. Event is the same. The result is the same. The action, however, is NOT the same. I canÆt put it any simpler than that. Anyway, weÆre going in circles. Your next reply will be for me to stay aligned to which IÆll reply I want a way to keep my mission location unknown. Then you will reply I should use the scanner, to which IÆll reply the scanner is no longer a reliable tool. To which youÆll say it was the same way before Apocrypha. Then I will tell you before Apocrypha I had a better chance at detecting probes. And then youÆll, again, tell me to just stay aligned and IÆll be fine, and weÆll be right back where we started. here: Pre-Apocrypha 1. Event: Neutral enters system. I donÆt know if heÆs a pirate or not. 2. Action: Keep doing missions until probes are spotted on my scanner (i.e., profit until probes spotted). (If hes looking for you u'll know about it) 3. Result: Mission deadspace remains unknown. (But you remain docked until he leaves!) Post-Apocrypha 1. Event: Neutral enters system. I donÆt know if heÆs a pirate or not. He warps into my mission, hits ma jet can, I warp off (I.E, profit until you see him in the mission) 2. Action: dock (you remain docked until he leaves! If its a trap then you just aling and watch local) 3. Result: Mission deadspace IS busted, but PROFIT STAYS THE SAME. The only difference between the busted mission/non busted mission IS NOT the isk/hour but it IS the point that the pirate could choose to kill your objetives - if he knew what the hell the mission was, could be botherd and didnt scretly enjoy - kinda like dressing up in womens clothes. ( I make no accusations here Skunk - was just citing an exmaple is all) As long as your careful it doesnt matter if the site is comprimised - the ISK /Hour on each situtation CAN be very very similar.

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