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Zsorn
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Posted - 2009.07.05 20:16:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Zsorn on 05/07/2009 20:17:11
Thanks again for readying my post.
I had been thinking about getting into the frig area of the game but after posting about info on interceptors, I thought that I might want to look into HAC or BCs. Currently I fly a passive drake. Been working on skills to make it viable pvp. However I noticed a few posts about HACs. I would like some honest insight as to the pros and cons of both of these ships if they were to be used for small gang hit and run warfare. What is better for survivablity getting into fights and out when you have to run.
Thanks
Zsorn
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Intigo
Amarr
Endemic Aggression
Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 21:09:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
What is better for survivablity getting into fights and out when you have to run.
This is pretty much what a HAC does best, but (and this is a pretty big but) you should never fly HACs if you're inexperienced in PvP as it will gain you very little and you will just be an easy (and expensive) kill for PvP'ers.
BCs with MWDs are still decent enough at getting away, I would propose you to stick with the Drake a bit, it's a good ship to learn the ropes in. The best Caldari HAC isn't much of a "hit and run away" anyway, it's more like a "sit aligned at 150k+ lobbing missiles being completely safe" kinda thing.
Go with a BC for a bit, insure it fully and you won't lose a lot learning everything.
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ENEMA, much love. <3 |
Zsorn
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Posted - 2009.07.05 21:15:00 -
[3]
Thanks
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.07.05 21:34:00 -
[4]
Pretty much what the guy above said, if you are new to pvp a HAC is not what you should aim for.
Think of the HAC as the kind of ship you want to get when you have nearly maxed your skills for the cruiser class.
It doesnt compare to battlecruisers really, if anything the question should be "Do I upgrade my cruiser to a HAC, do I upgrade my BC to a CS?".
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Zsorn
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Posted - 2009.07.05 21:54:00 -
[5]
So staying with the drake. As a new pvper should I focus on HAM or HM missiles? Should I work on Passive or Active tank for PVP?
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Mikayla Grey
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.05 22:35:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Mikayla Grey on 05/07/2009 22:36:57
Originally by: Zsorn
So staying with the drake. As a new pvper should I focus on HAM or HM missiles? Should I work on Passive or Active tank for PVP?
You dont normally "tank" in pvp. You fit for damage and certain essential pvp mods and then fill the rest with a buffertank. Tanking generally dont matter much outside of 1 vs 1 or very small gangs. Something like this.
[Drake, ham pvp]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
[empty high slot]
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x5
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Zsorn
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Posted - 2009.07.05 22:45:00 -
[7]
I guess I should have been more specific. I was talking about actually skill training. I would assume HAM training and passive tank tranining.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2009.07.05 22:48:00 -
[8]
HMLs for bigger gang, HAMs for smaller and solo.
Nice hamdrake fit by mikyala... only switch pds for dc2, use powergrid implant and fit small neut to highs. For hmldrake use cpu implant.
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Zsorn
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Posted - 2009.07.05 22:51:00 -
[9]
Quote:
[Drake, ham pvp]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
[empty high slot]
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x5
I am pretty sure you couldn't fit a drake like this with all tech 2s.. even with max skills. However I could be wrong.
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Mikayla Grey
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.05 22:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Zsorn
Quote:
[Drake, ham pvp]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
[empty high slot]
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x5
I am pretty sure you couldn't fit a drake like this with all tech 2s.. even with max skills. However I could be wrong.
You can but it takes good fitting skills. Using a DCII would make it even better but require implants. Just replace what you cant fit with named items.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2009.07.05 23:10:00 -
[11]
Just use this implants, they are cheap /20-30m/ and dc2 gives 10k ehp over pds2. If you really want to be cheap with drake use resist rigs.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2009.07.05 23:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mikayla Grey
Drake fit
I probably wouldn't even rig it if I was in any way short of ISK.....
Those rigs will at least double the price of the ship, and most time when you have to depend on your tank, you'll be dead anyhow.
If you have to rig, I'd probably fit something like Low Friction Nozzle Joints instead, so I could get out of trouble faster..... That is probably also of marginal usability.
I've also used Targeting System Subcontrollers with some success as they enable you to lock faster... Depending on what type of PvP you do, a Sensor Booster could also be a definite advantage.
Both of the above rigs are fairly cheap too...
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2009.07.05 23:28:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Vrabac on 05/07/2009 23:31:30
Only thing I'd change is DC instead of pdu and use 5% grid implant, also scrambler instead of warp disruptor for solo. Grid implant isnt cheap, but if you can evade getting podded, which is not a problem outside 0.0, the investment pays off since DC adds substantially to survivability and ship becomes much better. If you absolutely can't afford the implant, go for 2 bcus, dc and pdu in my opinion.
Other than that, the proposed fit is the classic killer ham drake of doom. Add a small neutralizer for lulz and AFs. 
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King Rothgar
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.07.06 04:30:00 -
[14]
I recommend you stay with the drake for now as well. First of all, HACs are not better than BC's, they are different. In a <10km fight to the death, the only HAC that will stand up to a BC is the ishtar. All the rest will be slaughtered with great ease. The reason is BC's have more tank and more damage than the HACs. This is true for the ishtar too but the ishtar can be setup as a pilgrim with 5 ogre II's instead of only 5x hammerhead II's, hence my disclaimer on it.
A HAC's main advantage over a BC is greater speed and agility. They are much better at running away from a fight than a BC is. Obviously that improves survivability some but does nothing to help you actually blow up another ship. Best example is the vagabond, it's got the tank and firepower of a t1 cruiser flown by a complete noob. But it also flies over twice as fast as most other HACs, recons and even AF's. As such it's almost invincible if used properly.
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Darthewok
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.06 05:48:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Darthewok on 06/07/2009 05:51:07
HAC = BC - 30% damage - 30% effective hit points + 30% faster warpout time + 30% velocity + some special ability, with little insurance.
Not exact but something like that.
Special ability:
Range - cerberus, zealot, muninn, eagle (the "sniperHACs")
Extreme mobility - vagabond
Super DPS - deimos
Versatility, solo-ability - ishtar, sacrilege
In situations where damage and tank are key, go BC. If you need the added mobility or special ability, go HAC.
Also, when starting out, BCs are probably better as HACs require more skills.
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Badmin
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Posted - 2009.07.06 07:24:00 -
[16]
Pro / Con list
BC-
Pro:
+Double the Hit points
+Has more DPS capability
+Higher Alpha strike
+Can fit passively
+Can fit a wider array of possible fits
Con:
+HAMS do not get the distance bonus (nice 40 click range)
+Cannot really speed tank or gate crash a BC
+Easier to target (probably the size of a small planet if fitted passively / with buffer)
HAC:
Pro:
+Cannot really fit a buffer fit
+Has decent DPS for size of ship (400ish)
+Has a greater range for sniping
+Easier to target smaller ships
+Reach speeds of ~3000m/s quickly
+Maneuverable
+Easy gate crashes
+Harder to target
Con:
+HAMS get a nice 40 click range
+fitted passively / with buffer)
+Takes forever for missiles to reach dest (even with additional bonus to speed)
+Higher priority when primaries are called (shorter life)
+3 times the cost when properly fit of a decent BC
+Takes a ridiculous amont of skills to fit properly
In the end, the HAC has a great amount of pros and cons.
HACS are used for Sniper apps most effectively when in roaming games that do ridiculous Alphas to larger vessels in conjunction with SB'ers. If cornered by an Ity though and your MWD shutoff you are about as vulnerable as a newborn.
3x the cost of a drake makes them almost not worth using unless its a very specific roam.
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.07.06 15:14:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Mikayla Grey
Drake fit
I probably wouldn't even rig it if I was in any way short of ISK.....
Those rigs will at least double the price of the ship, and most time when you have to depend on your tank, you'll be dead anyhow.
When you land on someone and get a 2pt and web on them, if the opponent you landed on is also a PVP ship there is no getting away (unless your opponent forgets to point you). In this case, every second of life counts, hence people putting 60+m worth of trimarks on a 50m Dominix etc. If you want cheap shield help, toss the shield resist rigs on :P
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Rua
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.07.06 15:24:00 -
[18]
HAC's for gang work with long range fits, one or two are nice for solo work kiting/nano setup. As a general rule of thumb if you think inside-web-range or tank-n-gank then take a BC instead of a HAC because it will perform better for less risk making it pretty much obvious choice.
Also I really would suggest inty's as your first T2 ship, you can get out and roam around dogfighting and you bring a tool thats always usefull to any gang. (dictors after inty's if your into 0.0). Then from there move up to HAC's for use in your corps roaming gangs etc..
Polling the forums is good but you really need to get hands on and I think either T1 hulls or inty's are the best way to do it tbh. Don't try to run before you can walk.
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