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Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.07.07 16:29:00 -
[1]
Especially those of you who have had their ships Concorded by shooting at ninja salvagers.
Would you be open to taking insurance payouts away from ships destroyed by Concord?
♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Daskielle
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Posted - 2009.07.07 16:43:00 -
[2]
Yes. Of course. You shouldn't get insurance as a reward for being killed by CONCORD.
If you're silly enough to be baited by a ninja, the cost of losing a mission ship means losing a lot more than the insurance money. Even a T2 fit with a couple of low-key faction mods (eg faction BCU to get around CPU issues) is a lot more than the insurance cost.
Whereas a suicide gank is presumably fitting to write off the cost, ie, they can afford it if the gank comes off (betting on cargo/modules recovered cost), so any insurance simply helps offset the investment, and could help tip some cases into worth-it-with-insurance money.
So having this simply helps deliberate criminals, while not helping those caught by mistake or by spur of the moment pvp-ness (in a mission or otherwise).
And I'm replying to a troll post. 
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.07.07 20:11:00 -
[3]
 please tell me where they shoot at you so I can go probe them down, I needs some loots 
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Future Mutant
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Posted - 2009.07.07 21:02:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Awesome Possum
Especially those of you who have had their ships Concorded by shooting at ninja salvagers.
Would you be open to taking insurance payouts away from ships destroyed by Concord?
What? let me rephrase this for you...
Would any of you mission runners dumb enough to get destroyed by concord because you fired at a ninja w/o having agro like to not get insurance for the ship you just lost.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.07.07 22:36:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 07/07/2009 22:39:39
Sure, I'd like to not get insurance payout if I for some obscure reason did what you describe. Not that I foresee a Concordokken anytime soon, but I don't insure mission ships in any case.
The expensive ships that would hurt losing (T2/faction BS), insurance doesn't cover it anyway, so what does it matter? Err, actually, come to think of it, I have no idea what the insurance payout is on a marauder, never even checked. But I'd be surprised if it's anything but crap, same as faction BS.
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S'Way
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Posted - 2009.07.07 23:00:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Qui Shon
The expensive ships that would hurt losing (T2/faction BS), insurance doesn't cover it anyway, so what does it matter? Err, actually, come to think of it, I have no idea what the insurance payout is on a marauder, never even checked. But I'd be surprised if it's anything but crap, same as faction BS.
The insurance payout for marauders/faction bs's is low (just like any T2/faction ship) = not worth insuring.
Really I'd like to see insurance removed completely from the game...if you undock with it, you should be prepared to lose it...with insurance, losing a ship to most now doesn't really have any impact. |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.07.08 05:48:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Especially those of you who have had their ships Concorded by shooting at ninja salvagers.
Nice piece of misdirection there :P
The most common situation I've heard of for carebears to lose ships to CONCORD is when they're remote repping anyone who asks, and one of those people then goes and shoots something they shouldn't.
Apart from that corner case, I'd prefer that Pend Insurance didn't pay out claims for ships that were deliberately destroyed. If you lose a ship in a fight you started, that's your problem.
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Kher'Aleer
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.07.08 06:25:00 -
[8]
I would stongly object to loosing everything plus fittings when accidentaly shooting a ninja-piħata on a gate or belt in highsec. 
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.07.08 06:29:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kher'Aleer
I would stongly object to loosing everything plus fittings when accidentaly shooting a ninja-piħata on a gate or belt in highsec.
How do you accidentally shoot someone?
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Kher'Aleer
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.07.08 06:37:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
How do you accidentally shoot someone?
When you get bad intel from your scout on the niarja gate in kaaputinen? 
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Ehranavaar
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Posted - 2009.07.08 18:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Especially those of you who have had their ships Concorded by shooting at ninja salvagers.
Would you be open to taking insurance payouts away from ships destroyed by Concord?
What? let me rephrase this for you...
Would any of you mission runners dumb enough to get destroyed by concord because you fired at a ninja w/o having agro like to not get insurance for the ship you just lost.
the insurance payment on a mission ship is just insulting compared to the value of the ship/modules lost.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.07.10 01:04:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kher'Aleer
When you get bad intel from your scout on the niarja gate in kaaputinen?
Ah, so you suicide ganked the wrong target? That's not accidentally shooting someone, that's deliberately shooting the wrong target.
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Krystal Vernet
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.07.10 01:36:00 -
[13]
Yes.
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Julia Venatrix
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Posted - 2009.07.10 09:11:00 -
[14]
I'd like insurance to be completely overhauled to, you know, use real historical data to generate premiums with, like, real actuarial skillz.
So you could insure for a cost-to-replace, including T2 ships and modules and rigs, but the premiums would be dependent on things like your standings (all of them), your employment history and the wars therein, your ship losses, the region within which the insurance is valid, that sort of thing.
How many mission runners actually lose their ships within the premium period at the moment anyway?
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Some days you are the pigeon, and some the statue. |
Mikal Drey
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.10 09:34:00 -
[15]
hey hey
apart from a total review of the insurance system i dont believe that in surance payouts should be based upon a pilots actions.
i pay my premium so when it blows up the insurance company pays out.
if the insurance system was reviewed then how far do you push it ? do you have specialty insurance for pirates ? 0.0 high premium insurance ? long term, short term, or even 10 jump single trip insurance ? do you insure cargo etc etc. CONCORD destruction insurance ?
currently the system will blanket payout for ship destruction and its NOT CONCORD who payout so why should CONCORD destruction invalidate insurance ?
Shattered Crystal - 60 day GTC
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Steve Celeste
Caldari
Overdogs
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Posted - 2009.07.10 10:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Especially those of you who have had their ships Concorded by shooting at ninja salvagers.
This is a myth, just like high-sec ganks on faction fit battleships.
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Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.07.12 07:10:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Steve Celeste
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Especially those of you who have had their ships Concorded by shooting at ninja salvagers.
This is a myth, just like high-sec ganks on faction fit battleships.
I agree, the stats in my bio are completely made up.
I'm sure those few of you that peruse C&P understand why I'm asking this, however, this thread was not meant to be a troll.
♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Kerfira
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Posted - 2009.07.12 07:29:00 -
[18]
I'd take away insurance payouts COMPLETELY
IMHO, their effect as a 'floor' for the mineral basket is far more damaging than any benefit they bring.
Insurance is also more or less to blame for the largest ship (not counting capitals) being the baseline. This relegates smaller ships to a non-used role, and that really is a shame. It would be far better for the game if battleships were so relatively expensive that only insane or very focused people dared fly them into battle!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Kher'Aleer
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.07.12 09:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Kher'Aleer
When you get bad intel from your scout on the niarja gate in kaaputinen?
Ah, so you suicide ganked the wrong target? That's not accidentally shooting someone, that's deliberately shooting the wrong target.
As Lord Vader would've put it, "I find your lack of irony detection disturbing."
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Jita Dancer
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Posted - 2009.07.13 23:24:00 -
[20]
Cost of your ship doesn't come into the value equation for insurance. Its a bet, InsuranceCost:(PayoutValue-UninsuredPayoutValue) that your ship will pop in 90 days is all.
If the insurance payout on an insured marauder is 100M, and uninsured marauder 30M and it costs you 10M to insure it, your betting 10M to 70M that your ship wont pop in 90 days. 1:7 odds. If you loose a marauder more frequently than every 7x90 days, it makes sense to insure. If you don't, it doesn't. Doesn't matter what the marauder costs. Obviously use real values for the amounts and work out the real odds. But either way, the cost of the ship is *irrelevant* - only your stake in the bet.
Another way to think about it, if you were using your marauder to suicide gank, and for 10M insurance you could get a 70M payout - would you insure it before you opened fire? If not, you don't deserve your isk...
Think about it.
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jhon whang
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Posted - 2009.07.14 01:52:00 -
[21]
Edited by: jhon whang on 14/07/2009 01:53:51
Originally by: Mikal Drey
currently the system will blanket payout for ship destruction and its NOT CONCORD who payout so why should CONCORD destruction invalidate insurance ?
Same reason as when in real life, your friendly life insurance company typically won't pay out if you get killed in certain stupid situations such as suicide, death while in the commission of a crime, and death while partaking in overly risky pastimes/occupations. Insurance companies do not like to reward stupidity.
Edit: ridiculous spelling
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Traska Gannel
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Posted - 2009.07.14 02:24:00 -
[22]
Actually, to be honest, I suspect most experienced mission runners don't have insurance because:
a) They don't usually lose their ships within the 3 month insurance time frame
b) They fly faction or T2 ships which only insure for a small fraction of their actual cost
c) Most long time mission runners fit full T2 and faction mods which probably cost as much as the ship.
All in all, it isn't worth insuring in this case - so taking away a payout for ships destroyed by Concord would have little or no effect on mission runners in the rare lapse of judgement situation where they fire first on a ninja salvager. :)
On the other hand, removing insurance for Concord kills would be a great nerf to the suicide gank business since they would have to be much more picky about their targets to make sure they earn the cost of the ships involved as well as a profit.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.07.14 07:51:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Would any of you mission runners dumb enough to get destroyed by concord because you fired at a ninja w/o having agro like to not get insurance for the ship you just lost.
A corp mate introduced me to ninja salvaging (tbh I found it boring so I did not pursue the "job").
When we'd enter people's rooms they'd generally go on a complete e-rage spree, with copious amounts of local smacktalk.
It was possible to cherry-pick the most explosive guys out of the pack and keep harassing them till they would do stupid things, including concordable actions.
-
Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Hooded Person
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.07.14 08:20:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ehranavaar
Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Especially those of you who have had their ships Concorded by shooting at ninja salvagers.
Would you be open to taking insurance payouts away from ships destroyed by Concord?
What? let me rephrase this for you...
Would any of you mission runners dumb enough to get destroyed by concord because you fired at a ninja w/o having agro like to not get insurance for the ship you just lost.
the insurance payment on a mission ship is just insulting compared to the value of the ship/modules lost.
As is the insurance payment on pretty much any T2 ship. It isn't just the mission runners who are 'hard done to' here
As for the question at hand, surely it's somewhat biased to be asking the most risk-averse people in the game, specifically some of the most stupid of those (the ones who suicide themselves against ninjas), whether they want a change that will undoubtedly hurt pirates far more than any other group? I mean, surely following your strategy we should also ask C&P if they want to have concord nerfed, or how about asking the trade forum if the next patch should specifically focus on trade to the exclusion of all else. I don't object to the question, but surely putting that question here is somewhat redundant.
Originally by: RedSplat
PvP flagging would solve this issue.
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Ufen Zakalwe
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Posted - 2009.07.14 10:09:00 -
[25]
Surely the ninja salavgers are quite risk averse as well? What with them not getting aggro, and the whole protected by Concord thing?
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Hooded Person
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.07.14 11:32:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ufen Zakalwe
Surely the ninja salavgers are quite risk averse as well? What with them not getting aggro, and the whole protected by Concord thing?
The ninja salvagers who hide behind concord are just as risk-averse and in fact more 'carebearish' than most mission runners. However, I don't believe that is the norm. AFAIK most ninjas are happy to fight the mission runners, and in fact try to achieve this by looting from wrecks. While I do not support aggro for salvaging, I hold this view for other reasons.
Originally by: RedSplat
PvP flagging would solve this issue.
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Bellandra
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.14 12:36:00 -
[27]
Long story short, I once flew around with 2 accounts in different corps. A NS flew on in and started salvaging, and with out thinking, I started shooting wrecks as I usually do. With out thinking, I used the account out side of corp that had no rights to loot and you guessed it, one Megathron Navy issue Concorded.
I live on both sides of the fence and I see nothing wrong with people probing me out and finding and trying to salvage. That doesn't mean I have to give it to them either.
Now when I play NS guy, I do my best not to be seen. This way they don't shoot the wrecks :).
This is a game, nothing more, there are rules and boundries and if you stay with in them, you move forward, if you don't, you move backwards. It's not real life, so stop feeling so insulted when others are doing what the rules allow.
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Bellandra
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.14 12:50:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Bellandra on 14/07/2009 12:53:35
Repost sorry.
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Dzil
Caldari
StrwBerry Pancakes
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Posted - 2009.07.14 15:26:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Dzil on 14/07/2009 15:28:38
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Kher'Aleer
When you get bad intel from your scout on the niarja gate in kaaputinen?
Ah, so you suicide ganked the wrong target? That's not accidentally shooting someone, that's deliberately shooting the wrong target.
Wait, so when **** Chaney accidentally that guy's face with a shotgun, he was deliberately shooting the wrong target?
*Addendum*. Thank you forum language filters. For better or worse, the former VP of the United Status of America was named ****. Not Richard. If you're going to censor the word **** because it might be used in reference to a male sex organ, you might as well also censor banana, nut, and pickle.
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Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m for 7+ standings
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:49:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Mikal Drey
if the insurance system was reviewed then how far do you push it ?
All the way out of the game.
No insurance at all, with a possible exception for newb pilots losing their ships to someone other then concord.
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