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Trebor DeCaldar Caldari	Posted - 2009.07.07 17:20:00 - [1] Did you see the new dev blog??? They are FUBAR'ing the rigs!!! Rather than having the options of lite rigs on your Battleship instead of the currect heavy rigs... all sizes are going to have the same effect and be split to ship type they fit to. THIS SUCKS!!! It will kill the rig market! Hey CCP... since you are making all size have the same effect, can my Small Rail Gun do the same damage as the Large Rail Gun???
Sloppy Podfarts	Posted - 2009.07.07 17:22:00 - [2] We do not think it means what you think it means.
xUndeadWOOKIEx	Posted - 2009.07.07 17:24:00 - [3] I know its awsome isn't it? now I can get good rigs on my frigates without spending millions and without loosing any benefits
Kulmid The Accursed Space Jerks	Posted - 2009.07.07 17:24:00 - [4] Such a waste of a thread. If smaller rigs did less, they would still be worthless to fit onto a frigate. Rigs are a % based modification, therefore they scale with ship class already. If small trimark rigs did 5% and could only be fit on frigates, nobody would rig frigates with them still because that would be about 50 more armor total. If I'm reading your complaint right that is. _________________
Trebor DeCaldar Caldari	Posted - 2009.07.07 17:25:00 - [5] Dev Blog Multi-Sized Rigs Currently, you have a Trimark Armor Pump I which costs around 15 million ISK on the markets today and can be fitted to any ship with a rig slot and enough calibration points. What we are doing is splitting this rig into three types; small, medium and large with the same effect but scaling material costs. Small ships like frigates, destroyers and their Tech II variants such as Interceptors or Interdictors will be able to fit a small rig. Medium-sized rigs can only be fitted to medium-sized ship hulls such as cruisers, industrials and battlecruisers...you get the picture! ummm.... yeah
5pinDizzy Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.07.07 17:38:00 - [6] Meh, I thought they were going to make it so smaller rigs were slightly less effective than the larger rigs for more variety. As that stands there's now simply no point at all to fitting a large rig to a small ship despite it'll probably still be possible. Was looking forward to this but now I'm a bit disapointed to be honest.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.07.07 17:43:00 - [7] Originally by: Trebor DeCaldar Dev Blog Multi-Sized Rigs Currently, you have a Trimark Armor Pump I which costs around 15 million ISK on the markets today and can be fitted to any ship with a rig slot and enough calibration points. What we are doing is splitting this rig into three types; small, medium and large with the same effect but scaling material costs. Small ships like frigates, destroyers and their Tech II variants such as Interceptors or Interdictors will be able to fit a small rig. Medium-sized rigs can only be fitted to medium-sized ship hulls such as cruisers, industrials and battlecruisers...you get the picture! ummm.... yeah Except you wont be able to use small rigs on battleships vOv _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Sun Clausewitz	Posted - 2009.07.07 17:44:00 - [8] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Meh, I thought they were going to make it so smaller rigs were slightly less effective than the larger rigs for more variety. As that stands there's now simply no point at all to fitting a large rig to a small ship despite it'll probably still be possible. Was looking forward to this but now I'm a bit disapointed to be honest. that makes 3, me you and the OP Pick Three: Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success
5pinDizzy Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.07.07 17:45:00 - [9] Small ship gangs were already very good. Assault ships are now going to be insane, costing a maximum of 3 million isk to trimark rather than more like 60 million isk according to that blog.
Hoo Is	Posted - 2009.07.07 17:45:00 - [10] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Meh, I thought they were going to make it so smaller rigs were slightly less effective than the larger rigs for more variety. Variety in EVE.... NO!!! We want a bunch of cookie cutter setups!!!
Grek Forto Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2009.07.07 17:51:00 - [11] QQ less please! Grek Forto Yarring Blog
Sir Muffoon Debitum Naturae	Posted - 2009.07.07 17:52:00 - [12] At 3million for a set of trimarks for AFs, you might as welll give all of them the 50~% increase on armour and be done with it.
Kessiaan Minmatar MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.07.07 17:52:00 - [13] Edited by: Kessiaan on 07/07/2009 17:52:53 I believe the OP is under the impression that you'll be able to fit small rigs on a battleship, hence, there will never be any reason to ever purchase, build, or fit any rig other than small. Let us all point, giggle, and hurl insults. I think the new rigs will be awesome - half the cost of a good interceptor or AF is from the rigs. And at the prices they're throwing around rigging T2-fit T1 frigs won't add hardly anything to the cost.
Benco97 Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.07 18:04:00 - [14] With these new rigs coming could we PLEASE get some calibration back on the Rookie ships? Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
5pinDizzy Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.07.07 18:17:00 - [15] Yeah we know the OP is confused. Still doesn't change the fact they've decided to spit in the face of everyone who currently holds rigged frigates and make future small ships uber duber when it wasn't really necessary at all. AF's were already popular after their earlier buff, there's now going to be big roaming fotm gangs of them, especially in militia. I always know I'm not going to like what I hear when it's coming from Chronatis though. All they needed to do was make all current rigs count as large as they did. Say a current (large) trimark with 15% bonus, but make mediums a 12.5% bonus and smalls a 10% bonus as an example. Where frigates and such could still fit them and for example use a large a medium and a small rig on the same frigate if they wanted. AKA variety from balancing cost reduction and effectiveness. All they're going to do is say, NO YOU CAN'T FIT THIS!, WRONG SIZE! It amazes me CCP Staff have the cheek to moan at us for using cookie cutter setups at times when that's all they ever give us enough freedom to do.
Trebor DeCaldar Caldari	Posted - 2009.07.07 19:40:00 - [16] Originally by: Kessiaan Edited by: Kessiaan on 07/07/2009 17:52:53 I believe the OP is under the impression that you'll be able to fit small rigs on a battleship, hence, there will never be any reason to ever purchase, build, or fit any rig other than small. Let us all point, giggle, and hurl insults. I think the new rigs will be awesome - half the cost of a good interceptor or AF is from the rigs. And at the prices they're throwing around rigging T2-fit T1 frigs won't add hardly anything to the cost. Op was under the impression when this was first announced that they were going to be 'lite' versions, not just different ship sizes. ie: Current Large gives you 15% bonus, a new medium has 10%, a new small would give you 5%.... this would allow you to not invest the 45 mil in 3 large rigs and give you the option for some 'lite' rigs and drop a total of 15 mil on 3 smalls
Vim Spook Division	Posted - 2009.07.07 19:50:00 - [17] CCP finaly makes rigs into what people back then tought they were gonna be and people complain that ccp fixes it O_o
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.07.07 19:54:00 - [18] Originally by: Vim CCP finaly makes rigs into what people back then tought they were gonna be and people complain that ccp fixes it O_o Welcome to the Eve Online community. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Dala Kya	Posted - 2009.07.07 20:04:00 - [19] /facepalm This is a good thing, if you can't understand why... think more.
Krystal Vernet Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2009.07.07 20:13:00 - [20] How would different size rigs having more or less effectiveness make any sense, really? Since rigs give a percentage value to anything they modify, they already scale with the ship they're being added on to.
Kulmid The Accursed Space Jerks	Posted - 2009.07.07 20:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Krystal Vernet How would different size rigs having more or less effectiveness make any sense, really? Since rigs give a percentage value to anything they modify, they already scale with the ship they're being added on to. Nice one not reading the thread before posting, looks like you didn't even make it to the 4th post. _________________
Krystal Vernet Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2009.07.07 20:27:00 - [22] Edited by: Krystal Vernet on 07/07/2009 20:29:26 Meh. Never mind.
Renarla	Posted - 2009.07.07 20:37:00 - [23] Please. However, on another note, I now have one of those annoying sigs.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.07.07 21:06:00 - [24] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Meh, I thought they were going to make it so smaller rigs were slightly less effective than the larger rigs for more variety. As that stands there's now simply no point at all to fitting a large rig to a small ship despite it'll probably still be possible. Was looking forward to this but now I'm a bit disapointed to be honest. just based on the size differences between classes I feel like that would just be a waste. like frig rigs on a bs I cant see as doing anything more then +.1% a med rig on a bs might be worth 3-5%
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.07.07 21:47:00 - [25] Edited by: Mutnin on 07/07/2009 21:48:27 Originally by: 5pinDizzy Small ship gangs were already very good. Assault ships are now going to be insane, costing a maximum of 3 million isk to trimark rather than more like 60 million isk according to that blog. So what's wrong with them costing less? We are already getting hit with high prices on many other things some are just absurd. This game gets a bit ridicules at times with the amount of income generation you have to do just to fit a PVP ship that can be blown up its first flight. Everyone wants more fights more action? Well things need to be cheaper so the average joe doesn't have to spend 2 days making ISK to fly a fitted and rigged Assault ship. Remember not everyone in game can make 50 mil and hour. This will be good for the rig and salvage market anyway as there will be more demand as more people actually start rigging sub T2/BC/Bs ships.
Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.07.07 21:54:00 - [26] …why would you want to trimark your AF? The whole ship class was just made (marginally) useful by rather drastically reducing their weight. So why on earth would you want to weigh them down to their previous level of slowness and lack of agility—even if it's cheap to do so? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Damia Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.07.07 21:56:00 - [27] The biggest complaint I see coming out of this is from owners of CURRENTLY rigged frigates and cruisers, seeing as they essentially paid for a large size rig for their small or medium ship. The solution to this is similar to what they did when snake implants got nerfed... pop them out as a one time only freebie deal. So if you have a Crow rigged with 2x Polycarbons, logging in after the patch, your Crow would be unrigged with 2x Large Polycarbon rigs in its cargo hold. That way small/medium ship owners can't say they were ripped off. __________________________________ :Signed:
Discrodia Gallente Blood Red Dawn	Posted - 2009.07.07 22:05:00 - [28] Indeed, this is any insightful topic. It is so useful I find myself at a loss of what to post. ___________________________________________ Discrodia > Annoying idiots in 0.0 is my business. Business keeps picking up. Discrodia > I also like misquoting stuff :D
Lt Pizi Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.07.07 22:21:00 - [29] Originally by: Trebor DeCaldar Op was under the impression when this was first announced that they were going to be 'lite' versions, not just different ship sizes. ie: Current Large gives you 15% bonus, a new medium has 10%, a new small would give you 5%.... this would allow you to not invest the 45 mil in 3 large rigs and give you the option for some 'lite' rigs and drop a total of 15 mil on 3 smalls or ... you just buy 1 large for 15 m and get the same efect ... D-R is recruiting
Pharago Gallente Piratas Leprosos Guineanos	Posted - 2009.07.07 22:32:00 - [30] Originally by: Damia The biggest complaint I see coming out of this is from owners of CURRENTLY rigged frigates and cruisers, seeing as they essentially paid for a large size rig for their small or medium ship. The solution to this is similar to what they did when snake implants got nerfed... pop them out as a one time only freebie deal. So if you have a Crow rigged with 2x Polycarbons, logging in after the patch, your Crow would be unrigged with 2x Large Polycarbon rigs in its cargo hold. That way small/medium ship owners can't say they were ripped off. I completely agree with you. Not that it matters anyway. But yeah, it's true. :) Let's see what ccp has decided to do about it.
Krystal Vernet Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2009.07.07 22:41:00 - [31] Originally by: Damia The biggest complaint I see coming out of this is from owners of CURRENTLY rigged frigates and cruisers, seeing as they essentially paid for a large size rig for their small or medium ship. The solution to this is similar to what they did when snake implants got nerfed... pop them out as a one time only freebie deal. So if you have a Crow rigged with 2x Polycarbons, logging in after the patch, your Crow would be unrigged with 2x Large Polycarbon rigs in its cargo hold. That way small/medium ship owners can't say they were ripped off. Why would they feel ripped off? Serious question. If those were rigs of the type they would've bought anyways and the smaller (cheaper) rigs now incoming are no less or more effective ... where's the loss? Saying the money spent now is a loss doesn't make sense because the patch isn't here now and we didn't even know about this stuff until yesterday. I have three CCCs in my mission Hurricane I used for L3s. Come patchtime, I'm not going to feel suddenly jipped because I spent 45mil or something on rigs I wanted then. If anything, I'll be happy that the cost of replacing or re-purposing it to something that will need different rigs will be cheaper.
5pinDizzy Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.07.08 01:29:00 - [32] Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 08/07/2009 01:30:29 It's only getting a lot cheaper for frigs and cruisers and battlecruisers for rigging though isn't it? Large rigs (current rigs) will actually go UP in price due to the salvage being divided up a lot more for the other classes of ship. It's a hard kick in the nuts for the already rare and lacking reasons for flying a Battleship I had, particularly for Caldari. The difficulty in keeping up with a fleet, the vulnerability if you get d/c'd, etc... etc... Non Gallente Battleships can be near useless in lowsec without good support.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2009.07.08 01:37:00 - [33] Rigs are a percentage boost. They will affect smaller ships less dramatically than larger ships. 20% on 200 shields is a small number. 20% on 20,000 shields is much bigger and consequential. Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You
5pinDizzy Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.07.08 01:41:00 - [34] Also, it doesn't matter what rigs you put on the Omen, it'd still be a terrible cruiser.
Joe Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.	Posted - 2009.07.08 02:23:00 - [35] I hope i'll be able to fit more than 2x scaning rig Is, or a single scan rig II on my Anethema
Essence Praetor Retribution. Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.08 02:38:00 - [36] Whining about cheaper rigs specifically designed for smaller ships . . . Geeze you guys really will complain about anything wont you??
wickedpheonix	Posted - 2009.07.08 04:41:00 - [37] Guys, it's really quite simple: for BS's rigging stays absolutely 100% the same. Rigging just gets cheaper for frigates and cruisers so that people will actually put rigs on these cheaper ships. The only problem I have is that it requires people to buy a whole new set of BPO's so at the beginning at least, small and medium rigs will be expensive (maybe even more expensive than large ones). Overall looking pretty positive though - makes it much cheaper to rig my Cormorant for salvaging. Quote: 4. Transport of Rigged Ships This is something that can be a pain for many of you. There are ways around it such as using courier missions if the ship is small enough with a freighter or an Orca's ship maintenance bay for smaller ships. We will be looking into numerous ways to help alleviate the issue of transporting rigged ships. THANK GOD. I don't see why I must destroy rigs in order to transport, my intention is not to remove rigs (i.e. with the intention of rigging something else into the slots) but to pack the ship down for transport. Allowing rigged ships to be placed in a "compression container" or something that can then be loaded onto a Charon would be a most excellent fix IMO.
Cpt Jagermeister MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.07.08 04:57:00 - [38] Cookie cutter fits be gone!!!! Welcome the day of ACR's on frigates! Hey look a celestis, easy gank or super tanked bait ship? This is probably the most interesting change to the game that ccp has done in a looooooong time. Different sized rigs expands ship fitting combination's x1000 . I can't recall being so excited about a patch. Ship weakness's are because of slot layouts and inherent bonus's, with cheap rigs you can completely fit towards one goal with your slots and patch say resistance or dps hole with your rigs. The future looks bright and interesting indeed. Oh sorry i got excited and kind of ignored the op....what did he say again?
Amitious Turkey Gallente TarNec New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.07.08 05:01:00 - [39] I have a question...what about BC's? Will they fit large rigs or small rigs? since they are in between cruiser and battleship. My sig was fail, but now it isn't. Originally by: CCP Navigator We love you all as well <3 GO NAVIGATOR <3
Great Artista Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.07.08 05:18:00 - [40] Quote: Hey CCP... since you are making all size have the same effect, can my Small Rail Gun do the same damage as the Large Rail Gun??? 1mn MWD vs 100mn MWD, k? Its the same scenario. ____ Rockets need a boost. CCP status: [_] Told. [x] Not told. ◕◡◕
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Trinity Council Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.07.08 05:42:00 - [41] Originally by: Trebor DeCaldar Did you see the new dev blog??? They are FUBAR'ing the rigs!!! Rather than having the options of lite rigs on your Battleship instead of the currect heavy rigs... all sizes are going to have the same effect and be split to ship type they fit to. THIS SUCKS!!! It will kill the rig market! Hey CCP... since you are making all size have the same effect, can my Small Rail Gun do the same damage as the Large Rail Gun??? im suprised it took someone more than a day to make a 'This is going to kill the xxx market CCP you idiotz!!!!' thread i like it, it will not justify rigging smaller ships like frigs and cruisers, which means better pew pew and more isk lost, think about it, if people are now going to regularally be rigging frigates and cruisers, true, it may hurt the LARGE rig market, but will also make a new market for medium and small rigs, and since those shisp are generally cheaper and more desirable to fly, and chances are now they will be rigged, the influx of Rig losses is going to increase the market get over it Please re-size your signature to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes.Applebabe
VoiceInTheDesert Inroads	Posted - 2009.07.08 06:17:00 - [42] This is a good change. It will make certain rigs dip and others rise slightly in price, but in the end it will make rigging smaller ships less stupid, which I think is great.
Mire Stoude The Undesirables	Posted - 2009.07.08 06:19:00 - [43] This just in, CCP fixes all lag related issues! The players of Eve loudly, in one voice, shout "WTF" then commence complaining about how other players not having lag will adversely effect their own enjoyment of Eve!
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.08 06:22:00 - [44] Originally by: wickedpheonix Guys, it's really quite simple: for BS's rigging stays absolutely 100% the same. Rigging just gets cheaper for frigates and cruisers so that people will actually put rigs on these cheaper ships. The only problem I have is that it requires people to buy a whole new set of BPO's so at the beginning at least, small and medium rigs will be expensive (maybe even more expensive than large ones). Seeing how (unless there is a drastic change in the rig BPO requirements): - the wastage will be something like 2-3 units, - the time to research a medium BPO to perfect about 10 hours and a small at most 3 hours, - the cost of a BPO less than 125K isk. I don't see why the new rigs will cost much even day one. Full set of rigs BPO less than 20 millions; time to research all of them to perfection in a tower less than 1700 hours (that is, if the small BPO ever need to be researched, if they use 1/25 of the stuff they will require less than 5 units of salvage and have no wastage).
Prt Scr	Posted - 2009.07.08 10:38:00 - [45] Bugger all my ships are fully rigged, t1 frigs included Now i'm crying carebear tears
Acarion Sphinx Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.07.08 11:02:00 - [46] Theese are great news. I had missed them. Makes me wanna start actually playing eve again.
Khavi Kitamatsu	Posted - 2009.07.08 11:11:00 - [47] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Also, it doesn't matter what rigs you put on the Omen, it'd still be a terrible cruiser. qft - I really wish CCP would fix the Omen...it really needs a little love.
Karentaki Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.07.08 11:36:00 - [48] Originally by: Hoo Is Originally by: 5pinDizzy Meh, I thought they were going to make it so smaller rigs were slightly less effective than the larger rigs for more variety. Variety in EVE.... NO!!! We want a bunch of cookie cutter setups!!! Wait... what? As it is now only people with billions of isk to spare ever fit rigs to frigates or cruisers. How is making it possible to affordably fit T1 rigs to small ships going to decrease variety? The uber-rich still have the option of T2 rigging their faction frigs, but now the average player can afford to actually fit rigs to small ships. Quote: EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
Lord Meriak Amarr Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2009.07.08 11:38:00 - [49] This wont miss things up. They just need to take the bs mods off crus ships now like 1600 plate, as that is a battle ship mod. then things will be in line.
Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.07.08 11:46:00 - [50] Originally by: Amitious Turkey I have a question...what about BC's? Will they fit large rigs or small rigs? since they are in between cruiser and battleship. Medium rigs since they're still cruiser class vessels. It even says so in the blog. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2009.07.08 11:51:00 - [51] Edited by: Irida Mershkov on 08/07/2009 11:54:44 Edited by: Irida Mershkov on 08/07/2009 11:52:17 Originally by: Tippia àwhy would you want to trimark your AF? The whole ship class was just made (marginally) useful by rather drastically reducing their weight. So why on earth would you want to weigh them down to their previous level of slowness and lack of agilityùeven if it's cheap to do so? Don't ever try to mention that to my CEO, he trimarks interceptors, he's nuts. Edit: used to, trimarks AFs though, uses armour rigs on ceptors either way. Second Edit: stop whining you ******s, jesus christ this feature will be awesome if done right.
Zackalwe Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.08 11:55:00 - [52] Originally by: Sir Muffoon At 3million for a set of trimarks for AFs, you might as welll give all of them the 50~% increase on armour and be done with it. Luckily AFs are underpowered, so this change might actually make them useful at something. Although probably not. Either way you dont have to worry about AFs suddenly being uber... _
Tiny Tove	Posted - 2009.07.08 12:02:00 - [53] Would have preferred functionally different rigs tbh, but I accept this as a good change nonetheless.
Forge Lag Jita Lag Preservation Fund	Posted - 2009.07.08 12:04:00 - [54] This is a really needed boost to Drakes (already best profit from rigs, just got cheaper). Otherwise, well I can rig AF, I care, rigging covops is cheaper, not excited... I guess it is ceptor boost and ofc stealth bomber boost because those ships were not popular . T1 cruisers? Get a BC really, rigging is still gonna cost more than ship. So boost the good ships, nerf battleships some (an ongoing process), nothing much changes for the underdogs. I am excited. (Oh want something positive from me? Restrict the small rigs to T1 frigs and medium rigs to T2 frigs and T1 cruisers. But this thought took all of half a minute, can't expect CCP to devote so much time to design when they can scrw market and ballance some.)
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.07.08 12:10:00 - [55] Um, seems like a great change and exactly what I expected them to do. People use smaller ships more anyway, so the smaller rigs should sell well enough. The only place I can see it taking a hit is where battlecruisers are concerned, since people always rigged those and (I assume) they'll now use cruiser-sized rigs. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
thatbloke Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.08 12:13:00 - [56] Originally by: Amitious Turkey I have a question...what about BC's? Will they fit large rigs or small rigs? since they are in between cruiser and battleship. There are 3 sizes of rigs, small ones will go on frigates, medium ones will go on Cruisers, BCs and industrials and large ones will go on BS ---------------------------------------------- The funny thing about this sentence is that by the time you've finished reading it, it's too late for you to realise it doesn't say anything.

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2009.07.08 12:24:00 - [57] keep the feedback to the original thread


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