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Perilous Akara	Posted - 2009.07.08 04:41:00 - [1] I am pretty torqued off about this Dreadnought situation... I am in null and I Probe out a magnificent Complex (Sansha level 7 Plex). I rally my Corp but there are not enough us to really tackle this place. So... I realize that I am one skill away from being able to pilot a Dreadnought (Caldari Phoenix) and I check the Accel Gate to the Plex in my Pod to determine ship type and am informed that basically Cap ships cannot enter. Now, if a level 7 Plex won't let a Cap ship enter then they just aren't allowed through any Accel Gates period. Is this really the case? Are Cap ships strictly for hauling, mining and PvP combat in non-deadspace areas? Carrier, Dreads, Titans, etc.. None of these ships can be used in a PvE combat situation except in the extremely rare cases where they do not occur in Deadspace?? This blows my mind and ****es me off pretty thoroughly. I don't want to be told that months of specific skill training and a billion isk in skill books for Capital Ships is a complete and utter waste of my time because what I love to do in the game is PvE combat. That I will have to make do with non-capital ships in outrageously difficult situations. I am a pretty mild-mannered guy, but this is exactly the sort of thing I would bother to petition to have changed. I may be way off base about things I've said in this post that I believe to be true, and if so please set me straight.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order	Posted - 2009.07.08 04:50:00 - [2] Originally by: Perilous Akara I don't want to be told that months of specific skill training and a billion isk in skill books for Capital Ships is a complete and utter waste You trained for something without understanding whats it for? hahahaahahha. ha. In other news industrial and mining ships do poor in pvp.
Perilous Akara	Posted - 2009.07.08 04:55:00 - [3] Originally by: Crackzilla Originally by: Perilous Akara I don't want to be told that months of specific skill training and a billion isk in skill books for Capital Ships is a complete and utter waste You trained for something without understanding whats it for? hahahaahahha. ha. In other news industrial and mining ships do poor in pvp. Thank you for that less-than-useful response. How much does being a doorman for an automatic sliding door pay these days? Uselessness ftw, eh?
Traderboz SlaveMart	Posted - 2009.07.08 04:57:00 - [4] Originally by: Crackzilla Originally by: Perilous Akara I don't want to be told that months of specific skill training and a billion isk in skill books for Capital Ships is a complete and utter waste You trained for something without understanding whats it for? hahahaahahha. ha. In other news industrial and mining ships do poor in pvp.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.07.08 05:11:00 - [5] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 08/07/2009 05:12:03 The main reason cap ships aren't allowed in plexes is because plexes are the most profitable form of PvE in some cases, and cap ships would offer a distinct advantage. To give you an idea of just how ridiculous a cap ship tank is compared to a sub-cap, I tried out a Revelation on the test server the other day since I can't afford one nor do I have use for one on the main server, and without any tanking mods a gank battleship wailed on me for about five minutes and got me down to maybe 80-90% shields. I think I got a jam cycle or two in on them in there so that cut into their DPS (yeah I had jammers fitted... five of them actually; test server lol) but still. I mean on the other hand I couldn't track him at all and barely landed any hits since I decided to siege just for the hell of it. But if I were in something like a carrier or a Moros I could plow through most plexes and barely be concerned about tanking as I put out 1,000+ DPS.
Perilous Akara	Posted - 2009.07.08 05:17:00 - [6] So a Cyno also won't allow a Cap Ship to jump into a Deadspace pocket?
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.07.08 05:19:00 - [7] Originally by: Perilous Akara So a Cyno also won't allow a Cap Ship to jump into a Deadspace pocket? I don't think they can be opened inside. You probably don't want one in there anyway since it gives other players something to lock on to. Cap ship warp alignment is slooooow.
EFT Warrior	Posted - 2009.07.08 05:20:00 - [8] Cynos can't be lit in deadspace, and you would be incredibly ******ed to do so if you could.
Drago Katsov Caldari Esto Perpetua Coalition Of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2009.07.08 05:42:00 - [9] I love noobs. Ok Dreads have a possible max 350 DPS not in siege. In siege my rev hits 3635 DPS. Now when you enter siege your tracking and explosion velosity gos way down. Even if you could get a dread into a plex you wouldnt kill any thing that is moving and with 350 DPS you couldnt break the tank of any thing. The one possibily is the moros b/c it gets like 1000 DPS from its drones. Drago
Perilous Akara	Posted - 2009.07.08 05:48:00 - [10] Originally by: Drago Katsov I love noobs. Ok Dreads have a possible max 350 DPS not in siege. In siege my rev hits 3635 DPS. Now when you enter siege your tracking and explosion velosity gos way down. Even if you could get a dread into a plex you wouldnt kill any thing that is moving and with 350 DPS you couldnt break the tank of any thing. The one possibily is the moros b/c it gets like 1000 DPS from its drones. Drago I love clowns that pose as anything other than a noob themselves.. The Dread is not there to kill ships, it's there as a damage sponge. The rest of the squad will deal with the ships while the dread takes the beating. Afterwards, the Dread goes into Siege and takes down any structures. That was the plan anyway.. At least I admit I'm a noob
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.07.08 05:52:00 - [11] You train dreadnoughts because you love being a whipping boy, and playing the "jump and siege" game appeals to you.
Leobon Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.07.08 05:59:00 - [12] Edited by: Leobon on 08/07/2009 06:00:01 Originally by: Perilous Akara Originally by: Drago Katsov I love noobs. Ok Dreads have a possible max 350 DPS not in siege. In siege my rev hits 3635 DPS. Now when you enter siege your tracking and explosion velosity gos way down. Even if you could get a dread into a plex you wouldnt kill any thing that is moving and with 350 DPS you couldnt break the tank of any thing. The one possibily is the moros b/c it gets like 1000 DPS from its drones. Drago I love clowns that pose as anything other than a noob themselves.. The Dread is not there to kill ships, it's there as a damage sponge. The rest of the squad will deal with the ships while the dread takes the beating. Afterwards, the Dread goes into Siege and takes down any structures. That was the plan anyway.. At least I admit I'm a noob Loving the carebear rage. Ok you have a valid point of having it tank. I my self have run several 6 of 10, 7 of 10 and 10 of 10. I use a dual rep domi and a geddon b/c I fight sansha rats. A perma runnin dual rep Domi will tank every thing easily other then the last room. The key to doing a plex is to get the domi in there and get all aggro. Kill the overseer b/c it will do most of the damage. The first rooms will be really easy. The last room is the problem b/c if you dont kill the overseer fast enough you can kiss your Domi good bye. In 6 of 10 they dont warp scramble in 7 of 10 and up they do. Hope it helps. Drago
NoNah	Posted - 2009.07.08 06:00:00 - [13] Edited by: NoNah on 08/07/2009 06:03:46 There are complexes that allow caps inside, it's a balance question. Some are made for caps, some would be an endless pot of gold if you could use a cap in them others are more profitable done in small gangs. Many level 5 missions allow dreads and carriers, plan is to let even motherships in when level 7 missions are introduced. The amount of damage a dread could do in our out of siege is highly dependant on targets and the dread itself, generally you'd want to use a Moros for pve, simply due to the drone bonus. a thousand dps from drones is nothing to laugh away, while you could use guns in the highs, most tend to prefer drone links, cloak and remote reps there - not to mention smartbombs. Originally by: Leobon Loving the carebear rage. Ok you have a valid point of having it tank. I my self have run several 6 of 10, 7 of 10 and 10 of 10. I use a dual rep domi and a geddon b/c I fight sansha rats. A perma runnin dual rep Domi will tank every thing easily other then the last room. The key to doing a plex is to get the domi in there and get all aggro. Kill the overseer b/c it will do most of the damage. The first rooms will be really easy. The last room is the problem b/c if you dont kill the overseer fast enough you can kiss your Domi good bye. In 6 of 10 they dont warp scramble in 7 of 10 and up they do. Hope it helps. Drago Not sure if you're referring to 3 specific complexes here, but if you're not - scrams are around in MUCH earlier plexes, I know they're in 3/10 pretty sure even in 2/10. As for killing the overseer it's a bad idea in a vast vast number of plexes as he's also the trigger for respawns. A domi can do a fair amount of plexes, and sansa/blood are among the easiest, but saying it can do them all is just meticulous - especially if you don't go with horribly expensive setups. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 578327
Perilous Akara	Posted - 2009.07.08 06:01:00 - [14] Thanks, Drago. I appreciate the info.
girlyminer	Posted - 2009.07.08 06:03:00 - [15] Here's the thing: There are many people in Eve and many of them are able to complete these complexes in a very reasonable time frame with just a few ships. Generally, every Sansha complex can be done with only an Abaddon and a medic Domi so long as the pilots have plenty of skill points in the right areas however, the risk of losing one or both ships is still there if you aggro the wrong things. Allowing these pilots to take capital ships would turn a previously "reasonable" complex into a comical farming experience. Persist with your sub-caps in the complexes and eventually you will see that cap ships are definitely not necessary in PvE. Hell, even lvl 5 missions are more easily done in 1-2 Marauders and a medic.
EFT Warrior	Posted - 2009.07.08 06:11:00 - [16] Level 5s are soloable in a nighthawk with the right setup. It takes forever but it can be done. I personally would bring 1 ship to soak up the damage and either 1 logistics and 1 battleship or 2 battleships with remote rep mods.
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.07.08 06:19:00 - [17] Just because someone gives you information while flaming you does not mean their information is wrong. Keep the rage to yourself and you might learn something. Btw, regardless of whether using a cap in a plex is a good idea or not, using a cap without support outside of deep friendly 0.0 is just stupid. And no, a few corpmates in plexing bs/hacs does not count as support. You can either believe me, or continue to be arrogant and end up with an expensive lesson in cap ships and likely a hilarious post about your death in c&p. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Anara Libertie	Posted - 2009.07.08 06:44:00 - [18] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Just because someone gives you information while flaming you does not mean their information is wrong. Keep the rage to yourself and you might learn something. Btw, regardless of whether using a cap in a plex is a good idea or not, using a cap without support outside of deep friendly 0.0 is just stupid. And no, a few corpmates in plexing bs/hacs does not count as support. You can either believe me, or continue to be arrogant and end up with an expensive lesson in cap ships and likely a hilarious post about your death in c&p. What exactly is flaming but rage through text? Continue to be a hypocrite and end up with someone kicking your teeth down your throat.. And a hilarious post about it on jackass.com
Lego Maniac Minmatar Dusty Death Enterprise Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.07.08 08:04:00 - [19] Originally by: Anara Libertie What exactly is flaming but rage through text? Continue to be a hypocrite and end up with someone kicking your teeth down your throat.. And a hilarious post about it on jackass.com flaming is also done for purposes of ridicule your comebacks really suck, just so you know - ever been to jackass.com? try it, you might find your own lameness difficult to swallow (see what I did there?) ˄ ____________ ˄
Cambarus Clearly Compensating	Posted - 2009.07.08 13:47:00 - [20] Originally by: Anara Libertie Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Just because someone gives you information while flaming you does not mean their information is wrong. Keep the rage to yourself and you might learn something. Btw, regardless of whether using a cap in a plex is a good idea or not, using a cap without support outside of deep friendly 0.0 is just stupid. And no, a few corpmates in plexing bs/hacs does not count as support. You can either believe me, or continue to be arrogant and end up with an expensive lesson in cap ships and likely a hilarious post about your death in c&p. What exactly is flaming but rage through text? Continue to be a hypocrite and end up with someone kicking your teeth down your throat.. And a hilarious post about it on jackass.com He's right though. If someone calls you an idiot, then proceeds to tell yu exactly WHY you're an idiot, their information is just as likely to be valid as anyone else's, oftentimes moreso because the knowledge is supposed to be widely known, which is the whol;e reason for the insults in the first place. That being said: I did my first 10/10 plex a few months back, we had about 6 BSs and a few logistics. Granted we had an abaddon doing the tanking and it was a sansha plex, but it was still hilariously easy. The logistics weren't even needed, as long as the abaddon stayed within rep range of the other BSs he tanked just fine. If you're in a situation where you feel a capital ship is needed for a plex, then you've too few people with too few SP to be bringing a cap into a situation where it could get attacked by just about anyone.
Duke Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.07.08 13:53:00 - [21] [Maelstrom, Capital] Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Capital Shield Booster I Estamel's Modified Shield Boost Amplifier Estamel's Modified Shield Boost Amplifier Large Shield Extender II Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Ancillary Current Router II Ancillary Current Router II Ancillary Current Router I If only this was actually allowed in game.
MarieFrance Tessier	Posted - 2009.07.08 15:37:00 - [22] Originally by: NoNah Edited by: NoNah on 08/07/2009 06:03:46 There are complexes that allow caps inside, it's a balance question. Some are made for caps, some would be an endless pot of gold if you could use a cap in them others are more profitable done in small gangs. Many level 5 missions allow dreads and carriers, plan is to let even motherships in when level 7 missions are introduced. The amount of damage a dread could do in our out of siege is highly dependant on targets and the dread itself, generally you'd want to use a Moros for pve, simply due to the drone bonus. a thousand dps from drones is nothing to laugh away, while you could use guns in the highs, most tend to prefer drone links, cloak and remote reps there - not to mention smartbombs. Originally by: Leobon Loving the carebear rage. Ok you have a valid point of having it tank. I my self have run several 6 of 10, 7 of 10 and 10 of 10. I use a dual rep domi and a geddon b/c I fight sansha rats. A perma runnin dual rep Domi will tank every thing easily other then the last room. The key to doing a plex is to get the domi in there and get all aggro. Kill the overseer b/c it will do most of the damage. The first rooms will be really easy. The last room is the problem b/c if you dont kill the overseer fast enough you can kiss your Domi good bye. In 6 of 10 they dont warp scramble in 7 of 10 and up they do. Hope it helps. Drago Not sure if you're referring to 3 specific complexes here, but if you're not - scrams are around in MUCH earlier plexes, I know they're in 3/10 pretty sure even in 2/10. As for killing the overseer it's a bad idea in a vast vast number of plexes as he's also the trigger for respawns. A domi can do a fair amount of plexes, and sansa/blood are among the easiest, but saying it can do them all is just meticulous - especially if you don't go with horribly expensive setups. me+tic+u+lous Listen to the pronunciation of meticulous Pronunciation: \mə-ˈti-kyə-ləs\ Function: adjective Etymology: Latin meticulosus fearful, irregular from metus fear Date: 1827 : marked by extreme or excessive care in the consideration or treatment of details <a meticulous researcher> Hmm, honestly, l can not even suggest a similar alternative to FTFY.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari Interstellar eXodus	Posted - 2009.07.08 15:56:00 - [23] Protip: Tanked Heavy Dictor + Basilisk + DPS ships = Profit. Why would you even need a dread?

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