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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
84
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Posted - 2012.05.22 17:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:I think the only thing people are really complaining about is the blue-on-blue PVP performed by SoTF.
Everything else is just same old, same old.
I disagree with this. The blue-on-blue PVP that SOTF performed is their own business, and if that was it I wouldn't care all that much. What infuriates me is what I view as SOTF's traitorous acts against the Federation. We're allied with the Minmatar, we can capture Amarr plexes and defend Minmatar plexes, and the Federation even gives us LP for performing those actions.
Instead, SOTF actively defended amarrian plexes. And while doing so must have consciously stayed off the plex capture button so that their Federation Militia status would not interfere with the defending of the Amarrian plex.
At the same time, SOTF do good work in the Gallente/Caldari theatre, and they've got a lot of great guys in corp. I'd also like to state that I have great respect for WBR, and have participated in blue ops with them in the past and would not hesitate to do so again should a mututally beneficial situation arise. I have no issue with friendship across militia lines against non-militia targets.
But the fact that they directly defended an Amarrian plex in contravention of the alliances between the Gallente and Minmatar (and I mean by game mechanics where we actually capture amarrian plexes, not by blues between corporations) is what incenses me. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
86
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Posted - 2012.05.22 18:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Gallactica wrote:
Not being nice and setting us -10 is 2 different things,
They have us at -10 therefore are they not classing us as enemies even tho we were happy to be blue?
Can't hav it both ways.
It has nothing to do with the Minmatar militia corporations.
Even if the entire Minmatar militia had me set red and were complete asshats to me, I would not attack Minmatar space/defend Amarr space while in the Gallente Federation, because that is working against the express wishes of Gallente Federation Militia - and by that I mean the in game construct. That is the issue I have.
I would happily engage those Minmatar corps that had me set red, but I'd probably try and do it outside of the Minmatar militia warzone if said Minmatar corps were otherwise helping the Minmatar war effort.
I understand you value your relationship highly with WBR - they're very valuable and loyal allies. I just don't think your actions were justifiable being in the Gallente Federation. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
88
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Posted - 2012.05.22 18:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:Yes it should of been well known for damn near the last year this would be the case, hence why I am taken a bit back by all the Gallente who are up in arms. We already knew this, why is it only now an issue? It was an issue then and I was upset about it at the time...but I since realize they have a very close relationship and we(other gals) have to deal with that as best we can. Mister Kwong wrote:
At the end of the day, SOTF made a concious decision that being allied with WBR is more important than anything or anyone else. Those reading this should take careful not of that regardless of which faction you are in and behave accordingly to them.
I would never have expected SOTF to actively fight a militia sov war that was contrary to the Gallente Federation's mandate (which includes attacking Amarr plexes, we go in there the button runs against the Minmatar and we get rewarded for it). That is what surprises me. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
88
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:chatgris wrote:
I would never have expected SOTF to actively fight a militia sov war that was contrary to the Gallente Federation's mandate (which includes attacking Amarr plexes, we go in there the button runs against the Minmatar and we get rewarded for it). That is what surprises me.
Nexx is right. It shouldn't have been unexpected by any of us. They did the same sort of friendly RR'ing of WBR allies while they were engaged with Gallente FW pilots in Gallente space when both were in theater there as well. My guess is that the Caldari FW corps have similar stories. We all should have seen it coming.
Yes, but they were not actively engaged in an operation against the sovereign space of the Gallente Federation or its allies. I consider this action on a separate level. Obviously, I was wrong, but it doesn't change the fact that I didn't think they would do it. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
88
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lock out wrote:chatgris wrote:
I would never have expected SOTF to actively fight a militia sov war that was contrary to the Gallente Federation's mandate (which includes attacking Amarr plexes, we go in there the button runs against the Minmatar and we get rewarded for it). That is what surprises me.
Gallente Federation's mandate ? Intergalactic summit, that way. --------> If you wanna talk about prioritising blues, getting involved in blue vs blue fights, etc. I'll be more than happy to discuss, but we couldn't care less about **** rp'ing.
This isn't even Intergalactic summit. This is the core mechanics of factional warfare: these plexes you capture, these plexes you can defend. What you did prevents Gallente Militia from docking in that system too. I consider abiding by the mechanics of the faction I join basic e-honour in a video game. (I know that e-honour isn't required in this game, and is often time advertised as a weakness even by CCP, but it doesn't change my feelings about it).
Anyways, I better stop posting and get back to work. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
88
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 19:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tekitha wrote:chatgris wrote:Lock out wrote:chatgris wrote:
I would never have expected SOTF to actively fight a militia sov war that was contrary to the Gallente Federation's mandate (which includes attacking Amarr plexes, we go in there the button runs against the Minmatar and we get rewarded for it). That is what surprises me.
Gallente Federation's mandate ? Intergalactic summit, that way. --------> If you wanna talk about prioritising blues, getting involved in blue vs blue fights, etc. I'll be more than happy to discuss, but we couldn't care less about **** rp'ing. This isn't even Intergalactic summit. This is the core mechanics of factional warfare: these plexes you capture, these plexes you can defend. What you did prevents Gallente Militia from docking in that system too. I consider abiding by the mechanics of the faction I join basic e-honour in a video game. (I know that e-honour isn't required in this game, and is often time advertised as a weakness even by CCP, but it doesn't change my feelings about it). Anyways, I better stop posting and get back to work. I consider helping a long standing ally holding their home system as e-honor in a video game ... Who's to say your definition is any more relevant than mine?
If you felt so strongly about it, you could have done so by leaving the Gallente Militia. Then you would have had no conflict of interestin. That I would have considered completely honourable, even though the end result is worse for the Federation.
I agree in a practical sense, what you did was better for the Federation than leaving since you chose WBR over the Federation, since you still fight the Caldari. I'm just more principled than practical, and that's a weakness of mine. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
89
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Posted - 2012.05.22 19:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lock out wrote:But we focused on saving Raka and Nenn because our friends from SLAPD and QCATS live there, not because some random rp reasons. We did the same for Kamela, tried (and succeded) to save a system where some friends live .
This is a powerful statement. I do change my mind slightly from before and see your reasons and respect them quite deeply, and see the e-honour in it.
At the same time I still feel strongly about honouring the game mechanics, and this is partly why I am so incensed: I cannot see a clear "right" path forward to respond to these events.
Pulgy wrote:Bros before hoes.
Deal it with it.
Also if you're under the assumption that Gallente and Minnies shouldn't shoot each other purely because of RP reasons then I'm more than happy to shoot you back :) and please if you're so mad about this let your actions speak for themselves, Castle Grayskull awaits.
The reason I don't do so is multi-faceted
- To do so, I would leave QCATS (because I wouldn't want to drag them into a conflict like this) and start my own one man corp to do my principled action.
- Even if I did so, from a practical standpoint, it would do little. I would kill a few, I would probably die more due to sheer numerical weight. But it's not the practicality, it's the principle, which brings me to my next point.
- As I said before, I'm more principled than practical, so practicality is not such a big deal. If I were to do so, I would be harming your efforts to defend the Federation and attack the Caldari militia. I would be doing a disservice to the Federation in my crusade for principled revenge. So I can't even say that it's the most principled thing to do.
- And lets say I left the Gallente Federation to do so so I wouldn't be harming the war effect of the faction I was with. Then what? I would have left a faction to fight a grudge only because of the faction and that'd just be stupid, and my sense of RP principle is then lost.
- Finally, what fun would it be? After a week or two of feeling good about principled actions (and that's debatable for the above point) I'd just be creating drama within the Gallente Federation, and I hate drama. I'd make it more difficult to fly with the people I liked to fly with, and make it more difficult for them to fly with me, and we'd be like the Caldari militia was back in 2010. And I'd rather not submit the Federation to that kind of ridicule like the Caldari did to themselves.
So instead, I seethe with no clear option in front of me. And that's why I'm so bothered, because I do not have a clear correct course of action.
Isn't emergent gameplay grand? |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
89
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 19:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:I for one would love to see the Minnies turn every Gal red and KOS.
Why would they do that, and why would you love to see it (apart from of course weakening the Gallente militia, and if that's the answer then that's understandable)? I know a number of Gallente militia members who are now going to Minmatar space right now to fight for Minmatar plexes at the expense of our own Gallente space just in an attempt to cleanse the shame from the Gallente Militia for this action. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
89
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 20:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:what I am shocked at is that the Gals are not pissed at what SOTF did and more vocal.
Have you been reading my posts in this thread? It's up to 13 pages now. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
90
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 01:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Theronth Valarax wrote:Super Chair wrote:damars been posting in this thread the whole time...  That's what i thought at first, but had to find his post and found none here. Being both ex-caldari and ex-gallente i know there is no man that takes this FW stuff more seriously than Damar. Therefore I'm suprized he wasn't here yet :(
I think both Damar and Yuri are currently banned from the forums, so he's posting with Joanna Ramirez (I am not certain of the exact spelling). |
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
90
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Posted - 2012.05.23 06:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tentaki wrote:Cat Casidy wrote:chatgris wrote:
Even if the entire Minmatar militia had me set red and were complete asshats to me, I would not attack Minmatar.
I'd just like to remind the Father of all Lies of this little incident... I demand JUSTICE in response to this heinous crime.
I demand justice for the partial quoting of my post! Specifically the words " space/defend Amarr space" directly following the truncated quote above :) |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
90
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 16:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
marketjacker wrote:Normally I'd just type some terrible comment in here to enrage all parties but I figure this time I'll spend a little time enraging everyone.
...
I'd urge all the people in Gallente to quit the RP **** and just dec them if you are so angry, otherwise accept the fact some people will never play the game for that lame crap, so get used ot it and if your RP soul requires you to take action to be at piece, do it. Also while you are at it, dec us too. We are worse than SOTF for sure, we are bad men.
You know marketjacker... You should not-troll-post more often.
You're completely right. All I should really try to affect is my own, and possibly my corps conduct wrt Gallente Federation RP/mechanics.
Sorry SOTF - I don't think what you did was right, but it's your own alliance and business and I should just stay the hell out of it. You have a
SOTF > Alliance > Close friends like WBR > Gallente Federation sort of structure,
I work with a
Gallente Militia/QCATS > Close friends sort of structure
They're different, and everyone plays differently. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
90
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 17:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
About all the "haha minnies your stuff is dirt cheap" posts...
Short term - Amarr who bought pre-patch will make a one time profit. But long term, the side with the cheaper stuff should have increased demand for said stuff, therefore their ISK/LP should be higher. The side with the more expensive stuff will see the reverse happend, and ISK/LP will be lower.
The ISK/LP difference definitely won't be 16x different if one side completely wins, but I believe it will be significant. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
94
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 17:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Drackarn wrote:@ The Roleplayers
You should rightly be outraged and continue as you are. However, I would point out Pikes Landing in Amamake and Ishukone attacking the Amarr Empire with the Federation.
 Could you point me to a source for this Ishukone vs Amarr thingy? (And the Pikes thing?).
I have a feeling my RP world is in for some surprises....
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