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Mining Barge vs Mining in a combat ship?

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Morevan Cypher	Posted - 2009.07.09 03:58:00 - [1] So Im wondering why should I take the time to train up for a mining barge, when I can take the same amount of time to get in a BC or BS? I know barges can use strip miners, but how much of a difference does that make when I have say 6 turret slots filled with Mining laser II's? I use the jetcanning method, so the cargo hull isnt much of a problem, just the efficiency at which I can get the ore. I had another post where I got some suggestions, but everything wasnt entirely clear, mainly because the question wasnt clearly put out there. Thanks in advance for the help.
Kria Algox	Posted - 2009.07.09 04:04:00 - [2] Its not worth using a mining barge over a battleship till the Coveter.
Mealtrom	Posted - 2009.07.09 04:13:00 - [3] Originally by: Morevan Cypher I had another post where I got some suggestions, but everything wasnt entirely clear, mainly because the question wasnt clearly put out there. If you're serious about going into mining, train hulk by way of covetor. If you're not, just stick with a rokh/geddon/hyp or whatever you can afford. Top skill retriever just barely eeks out an advantage over battleships with much longer cycles.
Joe Starbreaker The Fighting Republicans	Posted - 2009.07.09 05:36:00 - [4] A battleship can outmine a Retriever, but not a Covetor or Hulk. -/ the fighting republicans /-
Velvet Sinner	Posted - 2009.07.09 07:42:00 - [5] Just saw someone mining in a 'geddon tonite... Nice. Good on ya, mate!!
Velvet Sinner	Posted - 2009.07.09 07:43:00 - [6] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker A battleship can outmine a Retriever, but not a Covetor or Hulk. I haven't been able to prove that point... Care to suggest how, where TIME is a factor (hauling, dropping in safe spot, etc)? Thanks!
LuckyQuarter Gallente Lucky Galactic Expeditions	Posted - 2009.07.09 10:28:00 - [7] Previous posters are correct -- don't bother training mining barge skills unless you plan to go all the way and train exhumers and astrogeology also to get a hulk, which may take awhile. Battleships can give a good amount of efficiency if properly fitted, but you might develop carpal tunnel from having to move minerals into the jetcan every 1-5 minutes for hour after hour to avoid lasers from shutting off....they just don't have anything near the same base cargo capacity as a hulk, and if you put cargo expanders in than you don't gain much room but lose slots for mining upgrades which will degrade your efficiency. That said, battleships are more flexible and you may have alot more drone space/etc depending on which ship you go with. Btw, a mining barge is also a pretty minimal ship...it's only good for mining, and even then it's somewhat defenseless. Hulks are significantly more flexible/protected. I'd recommend going with a hulk only if you were confident that mining was your primary profession (and, even better if you kept yourself in high sec).
Telchin Dai	Posted - 2009.07.09 10:37:00 - [8] Edited by: Telchin Dai on 09/07/2009 10:38:07 If I am only planning on using this char for mining/industry (I have another char for missioning), am I ok in doing my current route, which is Arby atm, then to the mining barges, working up to the hulk, skipping other ship training until I have those, or would it be better for me to train the combat ships instead? Atm I have only invested in mining/industry skills, with minimal combat skills for the rare pewpew missions I get.
LuckyQuarter Gallente Lucky Galactic Expeditions	Posted - 2009.07.09 12:24:00 - [9] If your char is an alt and only going to be doing mining and industry and you're staying in high-sec, than there would be little point to training combat ships. Focus short term efforts on getting an exhumer, mid term on getting a good industrial or transport, and long term on increasing industrial/trade/science skills. You're only need for combat stuff will be when you have to defend your POS :)
Telchin Dai	Posted - 2009.07.09 12:47:00 - [10] Thanks :) Yeah, I plan on staying in high sec with this one, and just doing industrial type stuff.

Fobiah Altruism. Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.07.09 15:26:00 - [11] Rokh FTMFW. ................................................................................. Will you go out with me? Circle one: Yes No Maybe
Joe Starbreaker The Fighting Republicans	Posted - 2009.07.09 15:47:00 - [12] Originally by: Velvet Sinner Originally by: Joe Starbreaker A battleship can outmine a Retriever, but not a Covetor or Hulk. I haven't been able to prove that point... Care to suggest how, where TIME is a factor (hauling, dropping in safe spot, etc)? Thanks! Download Halada's Mining Guide, he runs the numbers and proves it in there. -/ the fighting republicans /-
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive	Posted - 2009.07.09 21:04:00 - [13] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Originally by: Velvet Sinner Originally by: Joe Starbreaker A battleship can outmine a Retriever, but not a Covetor or Hulk. I haven't been able to prove that point... Care to suggest how, where TIME is a factor (hauling, dropping in safe spot, etc)? Thanks! Download Halada's Mining Guide, he runs the numbers and proves it in there. I never mined from a Battleships (and I have a Hulk now) but my Hurricane, with only six mining lasers, nearly mined as fast as a Retreiver, so I find it entirely plausible that a battleship could outstrip it. --Vel Experience is what you get right after you need it.
Shamhat Arete Aideron Robotics	Posted - 2009.07.09 23:45:00 - [14] If you like multitasking while you mine (chatting with friends, browsing the forums, working on your profit calculation spreadsheets), don't underestimate how much more fun a Retriever (or other barges and exhumers) can be than a mining BC or BS. I'm a generalist, not a full-time miner, and used to mine happily in a Brutix or Myrmidon: lots of pretty lasers, lots of swarming drones. My serious miner friends badgered me to train for a Retriever, and I am so glad I eventually did. It doesn't take that long to train, and the 3 to 6 minute jetcan cycle time (vs. 1 minute for a combat ship, w/ cargohold issues if you get too good at mining) makes it so much more relaxing. Put it this way: even if I could mine, say, 20% more per hour with a maxed battleship, I'd end up choosing to mine far less often because it would be too much work, and I'd end up with less ISK and less enjoyment. Also, for mining in w-space where your ship is at risk, a Retriever is super-cheap compared to a battleship or even battlecruiser. (A Covetor is also great for yield/ISK_at_risk, if you normally fly a Hulk). Half an hour of mining Arkonor will pay for a Retriever, so you can afford to lose one now and then and not stress about it.
Clansworth Farstrider Industries	Posted - 2009.07.10 12:58:00 - [15] Also, don't forget that combat ships can make MUCH more isk running missions than mining. Intel/Nomad
Gavin DeVries	Posted - 2009.07.10 13:53:00 - [16] It's possible to get that 3 minute cycle time in a battleship, but it's much more skill intensive to do so, and a battleship has cargo issues even with the longer cycle time. To use a T2 strip miner you only need Mining IV. To get the long cycle time on a regular mining laser you have to use the Modulated Deep Core Miner II, which requires you to train Astrogeology to V and pick up Deep Core Mining II. If you were going for a Hulk you'd need to train these anyway. The problem becomes cargo. I can't fly a barge. I went the battleship route because I planned on doing more than just mining, so I trained up Deep Core Mining. Using a T2 mining crystal in that laser I pull in 390 m3 per laser every 3 minutes, assuming I'm not in a fleet with someone providing mining bonuses. With a single Expanded Cargo Hold II, I have just enough cargo to use the lasers in pairs with pauses between. Toss any level of Mining Foreman, much less Mining Director and ganglinks, into the mix and I now have to start the lasers singly. Moving cargo every 10 seconds for 1.5 minutes out of every 3 minutes gets old pretty fast. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
Enthral	Posted - 2009.07.10 15:16:00 - [17] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Originally by: Velvet Sinner Originally by: Joe Starbreaker A battleship can outmine a Retriever, but not a Covetor or Hulk. I haven't been able to prove that point... Care to suggest how, where TIME is a factor (hauling, dropping in safe spot, etc)? Thanks! Download Halada's Mining Guide, he runs the numbers and proves it in there. One can crunch numbers all day long, but when it comes down to it, those numbers only reveal your yield in a perfect world. The poster's point was that it is more efficient to mine in a retriever than in a battleship, in spite of the math, due to the reality of your tiny cargohold in a battleship and the constant juggling of lasers. And if you read Halada's Mining Guide yourself, you would see where right after presenting the numbers, he says you should just stick with the retriever path because in 30 days you'll go from 25% less yield than a battleship, to being 25% more efficient. When it comes down to it, there is only one reason to mine with a battleship: you are not a dedicated mining character and have no intention on training the barges. If you are a dedicated miner, training into a battleship just to get an extra 25% yield for 30 days is a waste of training time getting into the battleship. It's also a massive waste of isk, since a retriever can be had for around 5.2m isk but a Rokh will run you upwards of 125m isk. You would be much better off saving that isk for your Hulk.


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