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Training curve too steep. Too harsh a timesink.

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Carniferous ATLANTIS MINING AND TRADING INC. 0	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:20:00 - [1] - Quote So I've tried to get a few friends into the game, and it always fails as the training curve in this game is far too steep for the average player. Heck I even stopped playing for a year because it seemed like I could never get my skills where I wanted them due to long training times. I'm still trying to figure out the point of the training system from a balancing perspective. I get the business reason for making players wait long periods of time. I just don't get the gameplay reason. Theoretically anyone can get access to great weapons and ships if they simply know how to click the train now button, and buy training books. Can't really see how this is working as intended. I bet CCP could get more players if they altered the training system to make it more new player friendly. Would love to see a response other than "THIS IS BORING, why do I have to wait 2 months in order for training to be done?" from my friends.
Implying Implications Broski Enterprises 60	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:22:00 - [2] - Quote shut up
Vilnius Zar Ordo Ardish 25	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:22:00 - [3] - Quote EVE isn't for everyone and contrary to what many people might think that's a GOOD thing. I've helped many newbies over the years get to grips with the game, some like it and some don't but if you tried helping several people and they all failed then perhaps it's as much an issue with you as it is with them.
Sala Kyss Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore 6	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:23:00 - [4] - Quote Quit then, EVE isn't for everyone Or in other words, HTFU
J3ssica Alba Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 355	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:23:00 - [5] - Quote Keeps the riff raff out. We don't need the instant gratification crowd here. There's nothing nicer to wake up one morning and think, "omg today my 32 day skill gets completed Im so excited" This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Tor Gungnir Agenda Industries 90	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:25:00 - [6] - Quote Just tell to not jump into the biggest ship they see. Apart from racial Battleships (which takes 30-35 days to max!) I haven't encountered a skill that takes longer than a week to fully train. Getting the best you can out of a Cruiser doesn't take too long. Though I am working on Adv. Weapon Upgrades. 25 days f+¦r Lv V shrugs
Ammzi Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow 1002	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:25:00 - [7] - Quote Because grinding for "skills" and "experience" is bullshit. Go ahead, I urge you to buy plex and go buy all the fancy ships and modules you want and then I will await as you lose it due to your inability or inexperience within the game. Skills and isk is not everything. quote CCP Spitfire "Hello Im Blue,"
Carniferous ATLANTIS MINING AND TRADING INC. 0	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:25:00 - [8] - Quote Vilnius Zar wrote: EVE isn't for everyone and contrary to what many people might think that's a GOOD thing. I've helped many newbies over the years get to grips with the game, some like it and some don't but if you tried helping several people and they all failed then perhaps it's as much an issue with you as it is with them. Note I did not say training was at all intellectually challenging. In fact it's the opposite. I'd say most people would find waiting 30 days for a skill to finish training, as stupid.
Roime Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance 749	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:26:00 - [9] - Quote Erm, lol? Training in EVE never stops :D Just login and play, skills train on their own, every once in a while the lovely voice of Aura rewards you with the words you've been waiting for. In the beginning high security space was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.
Serge Bastana GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated 584	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:27:00 - [10] - Quote There is a lot of information to take in to begin with, I'm still learning things after being in the game for 3 years, and I like that. I've been helping new players get into the game and through the learning curve, some are really enjoying it, some had slpped away because EVE just probably isn't for them. I liked the fact that you don't have to mindlessly grind for skills when I started playing and was able to take in a lot, but that's just me. Some people need that extra bit of help to pick up some of the concepts, which is why I think more new players would benefit from having some older players around to point them in the right direction and help them out. Some will stick around, some won't. WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Carniferous ATLANTIS MINING AND TRADING INC. 1	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:27:00 - [11] - Quote Sala Kyss wrote: Quit then, EVE isn't for everyone Or in other words, HTFU Uh... k..
Carniferous ATLANTIS MINING AND TRADING INC. 1	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:29:00 - [12] - Quote Serge Bastana wrote: There is a lot of information to take in to begin with, I'm still learning things after being in the game for 3 years, and I like that. I've been helping new players get into the game and through the learning curve, some are really enjoying it, some had slpped away because EVE just probably isn't for them. I liked the fact that you don't have to mindlessly grind for skills when I started playing and was able to take in a lot, but that's just me. Some people need that extra bit of help to pick up some of the concepts, which is why I think more new players would benefit from having some older players around to point them in the right direction and help them out. Some will stick around, some won't. Again the "sticking around" you are referring to is just waiting around for skills to finish training. How exciting.... No wonder this game only has like 40k people on at any given moment. I'm not saying to make the game carebear friendly. In fact make it the opposite. Make earning skills feel like you actually accomplished something.
Abdiel Kavash Paladin Order Fidelas Constans 493	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:29:00 - [13] - Quote I would rather set a skill to train and go do something that I find fun in EVE, than to have to grind NPCs for hours to get levels. EVE doesn't force you to do anything particular to advance. Don't like mining? Run missions. Don't like missions? Do industry. Don't like industry? Fight other people! There is no single path that you need to follow to advance. If you can't find anything interesting for you to do in EVE, if the only thing you are after is seeing progress in the form of level ups and finished skills and phat lewt, then EVE is probably not the game for you. Which is not a bad thing.
Cebraio Starfire Oasis 63	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:29:00 - [14] - Quote I've been training for 8 years and still can't fly everything. Working as intended. Of course it's easy for me to say with my multi-million SP advance, but I really wouldn't like to see the game being dumbed down in any way. If anyone could fly anything with little effort and minimal training times, people would loose interest really fast. To address your friends problem: Just set intermediate goals. Train for something small and fun! You rarely ever need a skill on V, it's mostly optional. Specialize and focus on things that you can achieve fast.
Carniferous ATLANTIS MINING AND TRADING INC. 1	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:32:00 - [15] - Quote Abdiel Kavash wrote: I If you can't find anything interesting for you to do in EVE, if the only thing you are after is seeing progress in the form of level ups and finished skills and phat lewt, then EVE is probably not the game for you. Which is not a bad thing. Dude anyone with more than 3 braincells would find waiting 35 days for a skill to finish training to be mind numbingly boring. Especially when they can only use t1 ships, weapons, and mining equipment. Also what do you expect the newbie player to do while waiting for these skills to finish? They can't pvp at all, can't really do anything actually. Playing the game with T1 weapons is not playing the game. Slamming your head against the wall would be more exciting.
Cebraio Starfire Oasis 63	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:36:00 - [16] - Quote Carniferous wrote: [quote=Abdiel Kavash]I Dude anyone with more than 3 braincells would find waiting 35 days for a skill to finish training to be mind numbingly boring. Especially when they can only use t1 ships, weapons, and mining equipment. If a noob trains something that takes 35 days, he is training the wrong thing. If he trains other things first, he should be able to do something and have a bit of fun while training bigger skills later.
Naburi NasNaburi Rens Nursing Home 80	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:36:00 - [17] - Quote Carniferous wrote: Again the "sticking around" you are referring to is just waiting around for skills to finish training. How exciting.... No wonder this game only has like 40k people on at any given moment. I'm not saying to make the game carebear friendly. In fact make it the opposite. Make earning skills feel like you actually accomplished something. Why the hell would you just sit and wait for a skill to be done ? You can go out and learn to play the game while your skills train. shrugs Having low SP never stopped me from having fun here. After reading some of your other posts here.... I considered deleating my reply.... some people..... EVE is not all about the SP.... if the person behind that shiny 100mil SP char is braindead those 100mil SP wont help him/her ONE BIT.
Roime Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance 750	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:36:00 - [18] - Quote Carniferous wrote: Dude anyone with more than 3 braincells would find waiting 35 days for a skill to finish training to be mind numbingly boring. Especially when they can only use t1 ships, weapons, and mining equipment. Also what do you expect the newbie player to do while waiting for these skills to finish? They can't pvp at all, can't really do anything actually. Playing the game with T1 weapons is not playing the game. Slamming your head against the wall would be more exciting. You are so wrong, I played first 8 months without any T2 turrets. There's not a single 30-day skill a new player needs. If you think you can't PVP at all without skill or module X, you can just as well quit now because you'll never be ready. You'll just make a new excuse for being a ****. In the beginning high security space was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.*
March rabbit Trojan Trolls Red Alliance 175	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:37:00 - [19] - Quote Carniferous wrote: Serge Bastana wrote: There is a lot of information to take in to begin with, I'm still learning things after being in the game for 3 years, and I like that. I've been helping new players get into the game and through the learning curve, some are really enjoying it, some had slpped away because EVE just probably isn't for them. I liked the fact that you don't have to mindlessly grind for skills when I started playing and was able to take in a lot, but that's just me. Some people need that extra bit of help to pick up some of the concepts, which is why I think more new players would benefit from having some older players around to point them in the right direction and help them out. Some will stick around, some won't. Again the "sticking around" you are referring to is just waiting around for skills to finish training. How exciting.... why not just buy char then? You have nothing to your current char if you only "waiting around for skills...". Just buy char with lots of skills you need and then?
Tor Gungnir Agenda Industries 91	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:38:00 - [20] - Quote I've been doing fine with T1 weapons. Why? Because believe it or not, other people use T1 weapons too!

Carniferous ATLANTIS MINING AND TRADING INC. 1	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:38:00 - [21] - Quote Roime wrote: Carniferous wrote: Dude anyone with more than 3 braincells would find waiting 35 days for a skill to finish training to be mind numbingly boring. Especially when they can only use t1 ships, weapons, and mining equipment. Also what do you expect the newbie player to do while waiting for these skills to finish? They can't pvp at all, can't really do anything actually. Playing the game with T1 weapons is not playing the game. Slamming your head against the wall would be more exciting. You are so wrong, I played first 8 months without any T2 turrets. There's not a single 30-day skill a new player needs. If you think you can't PVP at all without skill or module X, you can just as well quit now because you'll never be ready. You'll just make a new excuse for being a *****. And what did you do exactly for those 8 months? Sit in trade chat? Kill low level npc rats in high sec? You CANNOT pvp with t1 weapons. Don't be ridiculous.
Serge Bastana GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated 584	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:39:00 - [22] - Quote I think we've reached the essence of the post, sitting and waiting for skills to train and not being able to to do it now, now, now. When I set a long skill to train I always love to just sit in station, spinning my ship watching that little box blink for 20+ days, it's so very thrilling...oh wait. no, what I do is undock and go do things that are actually game play, making some isk perhaps, or heading out into low or null sec, perhaps throwing something in the lab slot to build or research, all kinds of things. If all they're doing is sitting and watching the kettle boil, then yes, it will be mind numbingly dull. If they actually go out and get some experience in the game then by the time that skill has trained they'll understand the game that much better and may have some laughs and stories to share, you never know. And how many newbies have 30 day skills to train? WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...
Naburi NasNaburi Rens Nursing Home 80	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:40:00 - [23] - Quote Tor Gungnir wrote: I've been doing fine with T1 weapons. Why? Because believe it or not, other people use T1 weapons too! Soooo damn true. Heck I even fit some T1 stuff still.. why ? Cause some of my fittings are so tight that nothing else would fit.
Kinis Deren EVE University Ivy League 49	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:40:00 - [24] - Quote I have some sympathy with the OP, being a new player myself. That being said, the game would be far less attractive to me if any form of xp grinding was introduced. The character bazaar offers entry level players the opportunity to purchase a highly skilled character, even if the player lacks the game knowledge to fly that characters' ships well. I had wondered if a scheme to purchase skill points for historical subscription (pre game entry and with strict limitations) would be an option so that skill points could be deployed on your own character, rather than a second hand one. However, I can also see the objections to this possibility too, namely "biggest wallet" syndrome.
Naburi NasNaburi Rens Nursing Home 80	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:41:00 - [25] - Quote Carniferous wrote: You CANNOT pvp with t1 weapons. Don't be ridiculous. My alt Char has 1.2 mil SP and has been outlaw since she was 5 days old. Rifter + T1 guns + mods.. you would be surprised.
Abdiel Kavash Paladin Order Fidelas Constans 493	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:42:00 - [26] - Quote Carniferous wrote: Abdiel Kavash wrote: I If you can't find anything interesting for you to do in EVE, if the only thing you are after is seeing progress in the form of level ups and finished skills and phat lewt, then EVE is probably not the game for you. Which is not a bad thing. Dude anyone with more than 3 braincells would find waiting 35 days for a skill to finish training to be mind numbingly boring. Especially when they can only use t1 ships, weapons, and mining equipment. Yes. That's why you're supposed to do other fun stuff while you're waiting for your skills to train. If you want to get to "max level" and "end game" and only then start actually playing, once again, EVE will disappoint you. There is no end game - or rather, the end game begins the moment you create your account. Quote: Playing the game with T1 weapons is not playing the game. Slamming your head against the wall would be more exciting. I, after nearly three years of playing, can't use any TII weapon system. I tried both, and I would say EVE is slightly more exciting. Actually many people find combat in cheap ships that much more fun, because you don't have to worry so much about making money to replace your losses.
Carniferous ATLANTIS MINING AND TRADING INC. 1	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:43:00 - [27] - Quote To those saying "just buy a character". You are missing the point. I don't want anything given to players on a silver platter. I want to actually EARN things, and feel a sense of accomplishment. Clicking a train now button and then logging back on in a month is not my idea of earning anything. In fact it's the opposite.
Cebraio Starfire Oasis 63	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:44:00 - [28] - Quote Carniferous wrote: You CANNOT pvp with t1 weapons. Don't be ridiculous. Ok, I'm at the point where I think you're trolling.
March rabbit Trojan Trolls Red Alliance 175	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:44:00 - [29] - Quote Carniferous wrote: And what did you do exactly for those 8 months? Sit in trade chat? Kill low level npc rats in high sec? You CANNOT pvp with t1 weapons. Don't be ridiculous. you'r so funny! keep posting! seriously, i trained fist t2 weapon (heavy missiles) after 1 year of game. Simply didn't need it. And now, having skills for "all T2" i still use T1 gear sometime. Just because of fitting requirements and market. T2 gear isn't button "i WIN". Sorry if you can't understand this fact. Should you read module info for any gun or turret once you wouldn't make such stupid statements.
Gallinari EVE University Ivy League 1	Posted - 2012.05.22 09:45:00 - [30] - Quote Its not too hard, not even close! The problem is other games baby you so much that when you play a game like EVE it makes you think to actually learn something. Its no different than learning anything else in life, like playing guitar, driving a motorcycle or learning chess. Stop crying.



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