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[Issue] Attn CSMs: Combat Probes + Directional Scanner Loophole

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Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.07.15 12:59:00 - [31] Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri I'm not trying to be high and mighty, I'm trying to help. You're not helping at all so far. You still haven't answered my questions. What are the techniques you're using that make you quasi impervious to probe gankers? Keeping it a secret just because you had to learn it the hard way is extremely selfish on your part. You keep saying no, that you don't need it because you know how to counter this issue, but you don't say how you do it. How is this a valid argument? As I explained in my previous response, it takes time to learn these things. When we train a new pilot I expect several weeks to several months of learning to take place before they are able to function comfortably in a hostile area. I could no more teach all of this via forum post than I could write a few paragraphs on archery and expect someone to read them and go hit bullseyes with a bow and arrow. This is why I would again recommend that pilots having trouble operating outside of high-sec join a good group that is ALREADY successful in low or null sec. Obviously one of these groups has adapted to the environment in which they thrive and have lessons to teach. Making a couple assumptions (which I hate to do), it seems that those endorsing this scanner nerf are attacking the wrong problem, and using unwise techniques in dangerous space. By attacking the wrong problem I mean: it's not the scanner or the probes that are broken. There's a pretty good arguement that low-sec isn't really worth the time or effort. I personally skip through low sec rather quickly and spend my time in 0.0. Others have already made this point in this thread. By using unwise techniques I mean: * Flying solo while hunted by groups * Expecting to continue churning isk while being hunted * Continuing to churn isk while being hunted instead of reacting to the hunters * Flying pure PVE fit ships in a hostile area While I couldn't possibly "train" a pilot to thrive in hostile space on the forum, I can tell you that we don't use any of the unwise techniques I just listed. Refusing to adapt to a hostile space by changing methods is like refusing to buy bug repellent when hiking in a jungle, because normally you hike in the city and you don't have to take that extra precaution, so you shouldn't have to do it in the jungle. It's not the mosquitos fault if said hiker gets eaten up, and we certainly shouldn't nerf the wind for carrying the scent of dumb hiker to the mosquito. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.07.15 13:04:00 - [32] Originally by: Exlegion Santiago, My concern isn't just staying alive in low sec. I've already said it numerous times but we keep going in circles. I not only want to extend my survivability in low sec. I want to profit in low sec! YES, I CAN ALIGN AND WARP OUT WHEN MY MISSION IS PROBED DOWN. YES, I CAN DROP CANS TO DETECT PIRATES ONCE MY MISSION IS PROBED DOWN. YES, I CAN REMAIN DOCKED, OR GO FIGHT THE PIRATES BY BRINGING A BIGGER BLOB. YES, I CAN WAIT UNTIL THEY LEAVE BY STAYING NEATLY DOCKED UP. But what can I do in order to protect my mission deadspace location from being discovered by players using D-scan to probe me? Yes, I can dock every time a neutral is in the area. Yes, I can fight them, yes, I can do other things. But I'm still NOT MAKING ISK WITH MY SHIP DOCKED UP BECAUSE THERE IS A NEUTRAL IN THE SYSTEM AND I DON'T KNOW IF HE'S SCANNING ME OR NOT. YES! This has happened to me a few times already, twice last week alone! So please, tell me how I can remain profitable with even one neutral in the system? The expectation that you can maintain 100% profitable activities while operating solo and being hunted is a false and unrealistic expectation. In my experience, unrealistic expectations are one of the main causes of human frustration. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Aastarius	Posted - 2009.07.15 15:22:00 - [33] Maybe we need a module that informs us we are being scanned with an exception being made for covert ops scans (which either can't be detected or have a much greater chance of being undetected).
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.15 16:02:00 - [34] Originally by: Exlegion I haven't done a good job explaining how changing the probing mechanics would improve profitability. But in a nutshell here it is: Pre-Apocrypha - I could mission in low sec even when neutrals and pirates were in the system. Why? because I had a window of at least 30-60 seconds to detect probes. I had a better chance at detecting them. If there were no probes in sight I could continue with my mission. Post-Apocrypha û Even with one neutral in system I have to dock my PVE ship (ie, the profit earner) and do something else because I have no idea whether that neutral is probing me or not. What I do afterwards is irrelevant, whether itÆs go fight, go dock, go twiddle my thumbs, go blob, it doesnÆt matter. One neutral in my system means STOP EARNING ISK. And no other safety measure will help this situation.In order to use my directional scanner ôproperlyö I would need to be bashing it every 5 seconds. ItÆs just physically impossible considering I have to read the results and micromanage the ship all at the same time. IÆd probably last 10 minutes before having to quit for the day. So what this really comes down to, is that pre-Apocrypha probes gave you the ability to ascertain the motives of neutrals in local in advance of them actually arriving in missions. In both the pre- and post-Apocrypha world, if someone comes into local and tries to scan you down you need to dock until they're gone. The difference is that pre-Apocrypha, if someone in local wasn't scanning you then you could usually determine this, whereas now the majority of the scanning happens in a way that doesn't show up on your own directional scanner, and thus you get little or no advance warning. And you're not worried about losing your ship as such, you're trying to "protect the location" of your mission by warping out when the probing starts. Once someone appears in the mission you're happy enough about warping out to save your mission ship, but at that point they already have a 100% hit on the location, which they wouldn't have got if you had known to warp out two minutes earlier. Is this understanding right? If so, I'm not sure that having your site discovered is as big a deal as you seem to think. Regardless of whether the prober gets a warpable hit the first time round or not, you'll need to stay docked up while they're in system, and you're safe when they're gone. The only distinction, and I don't know how relevant this is, is that the prober could leave the system, and trade the bookmark to another player who could then enter your system and warp straight to your mission. But since you seem to be not worried about losing your ship to something like this, and since you need to dock if people who are hunting you are in your system anyway, I'm not sure how this changes things. Besides, it's not like you could guarantee you warped out before they had a fix on your location pre-Apocrypha anyway.
Kaylan Jahlar Minmatar Industrial Limited	Posted - 2009.07.15 16:03:00 - [35] Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 15/07/2009 16:03:46 I have written a guide on the technique that being talked about in the OP. See the link in my signature for more details. I still thinks it sucks that there is pretty much no possible defense to counter this technique, but at least, now you'll know how it's done so you can get some payback ---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner
Dav Varan	Posted - 2009.07.15 16:12:00 - [36] Originally by: Exlegion Santiago, My concern isn't just staying alive in low sec. I've already said it numerous times but we keep going in circles. I not only want to extend my survivability in low sec. I want to profit in low sec! YES, I CAN ALIGN AND WARP OUT WHEN MY MISSION IS PROBED DOWN. YES, I CAN DROP CANS TO DETECT PIRATES ONCE MY MISSION IS PROBED DOWN. YES, I CAN REMAIN DOCKED, OR GO FIGHT THE PIRATES BY BRINGING A BIGGER BLOB. YES, I CAN WAIT UNTIL THEY LEAVE BY STAYING NEATLY DOCKED UP. But what can I do in order to protect my mission deadspace location from being discovered by players using D-scan to probe me? Yes, I can dock every time a neutral is in the area. Yes, I can fight them, yes, I can do other things. But I'm still NOT MAKING ISK WITH MY SHIP DOCKED UP BECAUSE THERE IS A NEUTRAL IN THE SYSTEM AND I DON'T KNOW IF HE'S SCANNING ME OR NOT. YES! This has happened to me a few times already, twice last week alone! So please, tell me how I can remain profitable with even one neutral in the system? You anwsered your own question , to be profitable in low sec you need to be in a blob so you can spank local pirates. If you absolutelly insist on doing it solo , make sure you fit eccm to your ship. Scan strength = Sig Radius / Sensor strength. By increasing Sensor strength you reduce the ability of a pirate to get a 100% hit on you when they do launch probes. If you go to low in a Maurader with a big fat sig and no sensor stength , dont be surprised if the pirates get a 100% hit on you first time.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.15 16:55:00 - [37] Oh, and since I forgot to actually reply to the OP earlier: Originally by: Exlegion Currently there is a technique being used in low sec to probe mission runners which circumvents the steps required to properly probe someone down... Ask yourself this: Is using the Directional Scanner to probe players down an intended game mechanic? Should the combat probeÆs primary function be to simply spit out a bookmark? As soon as the Apocrypha scanning system was announced, I was pleased that finally knowledge of where someone was in the system could be integrated into scanning, so that you could tell your probes to focus on a particular area if you knew where the area was. I considered this a deliberate and fundamental element of the system, and never considered that someone might consider it a "loophole". In response to your second pair of questions, Yes and Yes in my opinion. The D-scanner has always been the tool of choice to locate someone in a system; the only time you ever resort to probes is when you determine someone's location to away from celestial objects - in which case, the sole purpose of the scanner probes is to generate a warpable hit to a location that you already know of, but otherwise have no way to get to. This is in fact exactly what was happening before, but because it was impossible to integrate your knowledge of a player's location into the scanning system (short of trying to drop a probe as close to that player as possible), the probing took longer and was more chance-based. I do sympathise with your side of the coin, though - I think that the situational intelligence system does need a bit on an overhaul, rather than pinging the directional scanner ever few seconds. This has been talked about in relation to putting local in delayed mode in K-space (at which point some kind of changes to scanning/early warning systems would be a good idea), and when this is addressed it should make your situation much better too.
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.07.15 19:00:00 - [38] Loophole or not, I think everybody can agree: having to click a button every 4 seconds and roll the results in a scrolled text area does not make much sense. Some automation or advanced filtering will not make low-sec AFK missioning possible, or make anything easier for anybody. An operator is still required, attention is still needed.
Tortugan F9X	Posted - 2009.07.16 05:32:00 - [39] So uh... quick question: Why the hell does it matter if someone's scanning you down if you're already aligned out? The moment you see a hostile on grid, you have about a 3 second window to **** yourself and press warp before you get locked down- more if they're in something larger than a cruiser. ---- Need Mercenaries? Contact me in-game to hire Internal Anarchy. Killboard
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.16 11:19:00 - [40] Originally by: Tortugan So uh... quick question: Why the hell does it matter if someone's scanning you down if you're already aligned out? The moment you see a hostile on grid, you have about a 3 second window to **** yourself and press warp before you get locked down- more if they're in something larger than a cruiser. I explained it here. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
ChinaWillGrowLarger Heretic Command	Posted - 2009.07.16 20:06:00 - [41] People have been using the D-Scanner in this manner since before the latest probe re-vamp; and were doing so when it was chance based even before that! This is what the D-Scanner is for.
Hairy Sue	Posted - 2009.07.16 20:38:00 - [42] Its easy, with practice, to make yourself pretty much totally safe whilst running missions in lowsec. Briefly, its to do with aligning your ship, watching local, and using the scanner. I wont go into details here but feel free to mail me and I can give you the hints and tips that will keep you safe everytime
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.16 23:05:00 - [43] Originally by: ChinaWillGrowLarger People have been using the D-Scanner in this manner since before the latest probe re-vamp; and were doing so when it was chance based even before that! This is what the D-Scanner is for. There is one underlying difference. Pre-Apocrypha probes were in space for a hell of a lot longer than just 5 seconds. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.16 23:10:00 - [44] Originally by: Hairy Sue Its easy, with practice, to make yourself pretty much totally safe whilst running missions in lowsec. Briefly, its to do with aligning your ship, watching local, and using the scanner. I wont go into details here but feel free to mail me and I can give you the hints and tips that will keep you safe everytime Thanks, but my concern isn't surviving in low sec. I think I have that pretty well managed. My problem is not being able to protect my deadspace when missioning. Before Apocrypha, an alert mission runner had a decent chance at detecting probes in space before getting busted. After Apocrypha there is only a 5-second window. If I am in low sec to make profits I just cannot take that risk after the patch. What I'm asking is for CCP to increase that window from 5 seconds to something more reasonable. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Tortugan F9X	Posted - 2009.07.17 01:46:00 - [45] Originally by: Exlegion Originally by: Tortugan So uh... quick question: Why the hell does it matter if someone's scanning you down if you're already aligned out? The moment you see a hostile on grid, you have about a 3 second window to **** yourself and press warp before you get locked down- more if they're in something larger than a cruiser. I explained it here. No... no you didn't. Your profits will drop when someone scans down your plex REGARDLESS of whether they scan it down with this 'loophole' or not. Your primary argument against this tactic is that you only have 6 seconds and need to mash your directional scanner to see something coming- which is simply untrue. You stay aligned, and when you see someone landing on your grid, you hit warp. Old System: You stay aligned, you see probes on scan, you warp out New System: You stay aligned, you see ships on grid, you warp out Sorry- how is that any different? In both cases, you're forced to dock or safe up until the hostiles leave, and in both cases, assuming you aren't AFK, you get your ship out alive. lrn2argue plox ---- Need Mercenaries? Contact me in-game to hire Internal Anarchy. Killboard
Tortugan F9X	Posted - 2009.07.17 01:48:00 - [46] Alternatively, I do think it would be reasonable and make sense to be allowed to add probes to the overview- so if you were really that scared about being probed out, you could setup an overview just to scan for probes, thus, not having to scroll through the endless list of the unchecked 'Use Active Overview Settings' box. ---- Need Mercenaries? Contact me in-game to hire Internal Anarchy. Killboard
Hairy Sue	Posted - 2009.07.17 01:54:00 - [47] Edited by: Hairy Sue on 17/07/2009 01:56:12 Originally by: Exlegion Originally by: Hairy Sue Its easy, with practice, to make yourself pretty much totally safe whilst running missions in lowsec. Briefly, its to do with aligning your ship, watching local, and using the scanner. I wont go into details here but feel free to mail me and I can give you the hints and tips that will keep you safe everytime Thanks, but my concern isn't surviving in low sec. I think I have that pretty well managed. My problem is not being able to protect my deadspace when missioning. Before Apocrypha, an alert mission runner had a decent chance at detecting probes in space before getting busted. After Apocrypha there is only a 5-second window. If I am in low sec to make profits I just cannot take that risk after the patch. What I'm asking is for CCP to increase that window from 5 seconds to something more reasonable. Well then you dont make sense. If you mean - you are trying to protect your ship whilst it is in a mission - then it is very easy to do, aligning, scanning, scouting, checking killboards, checking corps. You state you have never been killed in your mission despite being unexpectedly probe so you obviously have no problem with this. but if you mean - you want to protect the mission itself, then no amount of scanning will do this. Even if we go back to pre patch scan times (22 seconds with max skills) you would not protect the mission, simply have more time to spot the probes and warp out Even if ccp were to give you an auto scanner, your mission would still be busted, and you would be unable to return to it to complete it - so would lose the isk and standings. Lowsec is tougher then highsec, and rightly so. Its about surviving, and is in fact very easy to do.
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.17 02:07:00 - [48] Difference between two systems. Pre-Apocrypha: I could still mission even with neutrals and pirates in the system as long as probes were not visible on my scanner, because there was a reasonable probability that I wasn't being scanned. Post-Apocrypha: Probers can do their probing with directional scanner almost exclusively, only having to rely on probes for about 5 seconds. What this translates is DONT MISSION WITH EVEN ONE NEUTRAL IN SYSTEM. Again, before Apocrypha I could still mission even with neuts and pirates in the system as long as I was paying attention. After Apocrypha I cannot take that chance anymore because the odds stack greatly against me. Yes, there are other precautions I can take NOT TO GET KILLED, such as dropping a can at warp-in, aligning, etc. This doesn't protect my mission itself. It simply gives me chance to get out of there alive. ANYTHING ELSE I DO, even bringing in my own blob, will not allow me to bring my isk earner out (my PVE ship). Basically, one neutral in system = DONT MAKE ISK. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.17 02:12:00 - [49] Originally by: Hairy Sue Lowsec is tougher then highsec, and rightly so. Its about surviving, and is in fact very easy to do. Its not about risk free isk - if that is what you want go to high sec. I don't just want to survive in low sec. I want to make ISK in low sec. I know how to survive in low sec quite well. But the reasons for me being there are dwindling. I can no longer assume that if I don't see probes on my scanner chances are I'm not being probed. <== Thinking this after Apocrypha is A VERY rash decision. By the way, I don't want a fail-proof system (100% accuracy). I just want a system that just as pre-Apocrypha, gives me a fair chance at detecting probes. That is all I'm asking for. A 5-second window is ridiculous. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Tortugan F9X	Posted - 2009.07.17 02:22:00 - [50] Edited by: Tortugan on 17/07/2009 02:22:54 Originally by: Exlegion Difference between two systems. Pre-Apocrypha: I could still mission even with neutrals and pirates in the system as long as probes were not visible on my scanner, because there was a reasonable probability that I wasn't being scanned. Post-Apocrypha: Probers can do their probing with directional scanner almost exclusively, only having to rely on probes for about 5 seconds. What this translates is DONT MISSION WITH EVEN ONE NEUTRAL IN SYSTEM. Again, before Apocrypha I could still mission even with neuts and pirates in the system as long as I was paying attention. After Apocrypha I cannot take that chance anymore because the odds stack greatly against me. Yes, there are other precautions I can take NOT TO GET KILLED, such as dropping a can at warp-in, aligning, etc. This doesn't protect my mission itself. It simply gives me chance to get out of there alive. ANYTHING ELSE I DO, even bringing in my own blob, will not allow me to bring my isk earner out (my PVE ship). Basically, one neutral in system = DONT MAKE ISK. Dude- I don't understand what part of this you don't get. If someone scans out your mission now, it's THE SAME as if they scanned it out pre-apoc. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE is that you don't find out until they've almost found you. Hence, you align out, and hit warp when you see a hostile on grid. Please explain to me how this is at all different from the pre-patch system? You discover that a hostile player is scanning out your mission, you dock up. Nothing has changed except for the time it takes to find you. ---- Need Mercenaries? Contact me in-game to hire Internal Anarchy. Killboard
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.17 02:41:00 - [51] It's not the same. In one scenario I'm still able to mission as long as I'm careful and watching my onboard scanner. Post-Apocrypha I cannot take that risk, my scanner is unreliable. One situation I can still make isk. On another situation I can't. For example: Pre-apoc: 5 neutrals in system. I can still mission up until point I see probes on scanner. Post-apoc: Scanner is almost completely useless. I'm better off docking. See the difference? One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.17 02:43:00 - [52] And remember that pre-Apoc it took time placing the probes in place. At least it took more than just 5 seconds. Scanner for mission runners is now crap. It doesn't help unless you're spamming it every 5 seconds. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.17 02:49:00 - [53] And if you insist it's the same, then just give me the thumbs up in increasing the window in detecting probes to something much higher than 5 seconds, since after all, it's the same and won't affect anything, right?. . It's all I'm asking and as you put it, it's the same. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2009.07.17 03:22:00 - [54] Originally by: Exlegion And remember that pre-Apoc it took time placing the probes in place. At least it took more than just 5 seconds. Scanner for mission runners is now crap. It doesn't help unless you're spamming it every 5 seconds. No it didnt. I would have bookmarks everywhere in system. Literally 100 bookmarks in the mission running systems - and this was by no means a large amount for the pro scanners. I would use the D scanner, narrow down the direction, warp to a close bookmark, and drop the highest strength probe. From your posts you seem to have little clue about probing. You talk about pre apoc PROBES and how great the system was when in fact your looking at the revelation patch where they went from multiple probes to needing only one SINGLE probe. You also took NEARLY FOUR MONTHS to realise that the probing system had changed in the apo patch. Your original thread title was "being probed down with no probes on scan". You are flying around in low sec without even taking a cursory look at 4 month old patch notes You claim to not be concerned about being killed in a mission as you agree if you take precautions you are very unlikley to be caught, but continue to talk about "protecting the mission". If the mission spot has been located, whether by three probes overlaping (pre revelation) one single 22 second probe (pre apo - (my favourite system incidentally) 4 movable probes and a 5 second scan (current situation) THE MISSION IS NOW FOUND. You cannot run that mission from then on. The method of finding the mission is irrelevant. The one and only difference is the timescale you have to get out of your mission. But we have agreed using some simple methods you can escape from any mission UNDER THE CURRENT SYSTEM So whats the difference? You are confusing a lot of people with your posts, they are incoherent, perhaps deliberately so SKUNK (o)
Tortugan F9X	Posted - 2009.07.17 04:08:00 - [55] Originally by: Exlegion It's not the same. In one scenario I'm still able to mission as long as I'm careful and watching my onboard scanner. Post-Apocrypha I cannot take that risk, my scanner is unreliable. One situation I can still make isk. On another situation I can't. For example: Pre-apoc: 5 neutrals in system. I can still mission up until point I see probes on scanner. Post-apoc: Scanner is almost completely useless. I'm better off docking. See the difference? In either situation, you just stay aligned, and if you see a neutral/hostile on grid, you warp off. There's no reason to even check your scanner for probes- just be ready to warp off if they enter your mission. ---- Need Mercenaries? Contact me in-game to hire Internal Anarchy. Killboard
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.17 11:34:00 - [56] Originally by: Tortugan In either situation, you just stay aligned, and if you see a neutral/hostile on grid, you warp off. There's no reason to even check your scanner for probes- just be ready to warp off if they enter your mission. So basically, you're telling me forget the broken onboard scanner, just warp off once you're found! Again, having my mission deadspace found isn't good for profits! Do you run missions in low sec for profit? I want a way to keep an eye on probes so I don't compromise my mission deadspace! One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.17 11:44:00 - [57] I think you know the onboard scanner now is no good to us. Yet you insist that things are the same as pre-Apoc. I've told you already: Pre-Apoc I would not have a need to warp off if I didn't see probes with my onboard scanner because it meant there is a reasonable chance that I wasn't being probed even with pirates in the system. I could still run mission by keeping my eye on the scanner. Now my PVE ship spends most of its time docked up because compromising my mission deadspace is way too easy now. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
ChinaWillGrowLarger Heretic Command	Posted - 2009.07.17 12:32:00 - [58] Originally by: Exlegion I think you know the onboard scanner now is no good to us. Yet you insist that things are the same as pre-Apoc. I've told you already: Pre-Apoc I would not have a need to warp off if I didn't see probes with my onboard scanner because it meant there is a reasonable chance that I wasn't being probed even with pirates in the system. I could still run mission by keeping my eye on the scanner. Now my PVE ship spends most of its time docked up because compromising my mission deadspace is way too easy now. I'm getting the feeling you dont care about the consequences of your proposal for other areas of gameplay.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.07.17 12:36:00 - [59] News flash: Suddenly the 99% of EvE players not bothered to learn how to use the scanner catch wind of a technique thats been around...err...years. Seriously. Without execessive detail the "old" method (without system BM web): -Jump in and yell "lolraven" on scan. -Narrow down and yell "lolraveninmission" -Warp around a bit getting as close as possible to 5AU probe range. Yell "lolravenwithdronesout". -Press scan button 9 billion times (so rewarding training 6 months of skills for that eh? **** no) -Get hit...warp to hit -"lolravenscrambledfortwoopenransomconvohahahaha" -"lolravenlogoffskiholdfiretilallhavepointsonpod" tl;dr: OP has zero clue. Directional scanner gives range/estimated location of target only. Probes must still be launched, analyzed, and generally shifted a bit to the right spot for a warpable hit. Not supported. Stop making dumb threads.
Slave 775 Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.17 16:16:00 - [60] Edited by: Slave 775 on 17/07/2009 16:17:24 Originally by: Le Skunk You also took NEARLY FOUR MONTHS to realise that the probing system had changed in the apo patch. Your original thread title was "being probed down with no probes on scan". You are flying around in low sec without even taking a cursory look at 4 month old patch notes SKUNK Failing to support his own proposal only to find out 2 days later ! Don't rush him! Why you guys still waste your time arguing with him, is one of the great mystery's to me. High Sec is perfectly secure for Exlegion, please come back. I'm Sure we all can get along while doing missions for the greater good.

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