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do you guys think a nightmare or machariel is worth it?

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Cavazos Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.13 06:25:00 - [1] title ask it all.... Are they worth the cost to mission in or maybe even a lil pvp in?
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.07.13 06:28:00 - [2] Nightmare yes, mach no. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Cavazos Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.13 06:29:00 - [3] how come the mach isnt anymore? what whats the prices of them roughly in game now?
Dhaaran	Posted - 2009.07.13 06:46:00 - [4] Originally by: Cavazos Edited by: Cavazos on 13/07/2009 06:39:56 how come the mach isnt anymore? what whats the prices of them roughly in game now? o btw can you give me either a pure t2 fit for a nightmare or a CHEAP faction fit for it? id love to have t2 mega pulses no matter what lets make it simple for now: NO if you cant afford a faction fit for a 1bn+ ship you really shouldnt fly it. at least 4x amarr navy tachys and 2x pithi b-type small boosters are pretty much required (for pve that is). how much of the other stuff gets faction depends on your fitting skills and your wallet.
Cavazos Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.13 06:47:00 - [5] Edited by: Cavazos on 13/07/2009 06:47:00 ok this fit is LITERALLY just a made up fit. i made it in 5mins. what do you think of it? [Nightmare, PEW PEW!] Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Capacitor Flux Coil II X-Large Shield Booster II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution 100MN Afterburner II Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Drone Link Augmentor I E500 Prototype Energy Vampire Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5
Cavazos Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.13 06:49:00 - [6] Originally by: Dhaaran Originally by: Cavazos Edited by: Cavazos on 13/07/2009 06:39:56 how come the mach isnt anymore? what whats the prices of them roughly in game now? o btw can you give me either a pure t2 fit for a nightmare or a CHEAP faction fit for it? id love to have t2 mega pulses no matter what lets make it simple for now: NO if you cant afford a faction fit for a 1bn+ ship you really shouldnt fly it. at least 4x amarr navy tachys and 2x pithi b-type small boosters are pretty much required (for pve that is). how much of the other stuff gets faction depends on your fitting skills and your wallet. ehhh idk the boosters maybe but the tachys i think i could do w/ mega pulse II's w/ scorch only a rough 804 dps amarr BS lvl 3 and cald BS lvl 4 goin to 5 soon
Diomidis Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.13 06:51:00 - [7] Edited by: Diomidis on 13/07/2009 06:53:25 Are Factions Tachyons better than T2 in anyway other than Skills / Fitting? Faction Dmg mods are a must, turrets are not IMHO... [hr] The Mach was very competent when was the fastest BS ship around. Now it's not that better than a Tempest or a Typhoon to justify the increased costs. Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game!
Cavazos Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.13 06:52:00 - [8] Originally by: Diomidis Are Factions Tachyons better than T2 in anyway other than Skills / Fitting? Faction Dmg mods are a must, turrets are not IMHO... yea thats what i was thinking ill deffff consider faction heat sink 3 ANHS's?
Dhaaran	Posted - 2009.07.13 06:56:00 - [9] Edited by: Dhaaran on 13/07/2009 06:58:14 Originally by: Cavazos ehhh idk the boosters maybe but the tachys i think i could do w/ mega pulse II's w/ scorch only a rough 804 dps amarr BS lvl 3 and cald BS lvl 4 goin to 5 soon well, the main advantage of a nightmare over a Navypoc are the tachyons (again, for pve that is - can always build a "blasterboat" with pulse out of it for pvp ;)). id fit it sth like this: [Nightmare, New Setup 1] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Power Diagnostic System II Tracking Enhancer II Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Heat Dissipation Field II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Hammerhead II x5 you can pretty much throw whatever rigs you like at this setup, got 6m sth cap stability this way which is plenty. (ofc exchange resists for whatever you fight) Originally by: Cavazos Originally by: Diomidis Are Factions Tachyons better than T2 in anyway other than Skills / Fitting? Faction Dmg mods are a must, turrets are not IMHO... yea thats what i was thinking ill deffff consider faction heat sink 3 ANHS's? think at spec IV t2 and faction deal the same damage, makes fitting a bit easier though ;)
Diomidis Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.13 06:59:00 - [10] Yeah, AN Heat Sinks are pretty much a must have for most Paladin / Nightmare mission fits. Also ppl tend to use Tachyons on those ships, as the higher volley dmg is able to insta-pop most sub BS ships and missions are swapped a bit faster that way, despite the EFT DPS/Tracking numbers favoring Pulses. The comment on the Mach above, was PVP oriented. For missions (at least against angels) the best minie ship is by far the Vargur. I would never choose the Mach to pro-mission. Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game!

Cavazos Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.13 07:03:00 - [11] is this fit a little better then? [Nightmare, PEW PEW!] Damage Control II Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Capacitor Flux Coil II X-Large Shield Booster II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Tachyon Beam Laser II, Gleam L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Gleam L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Gleam L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Gleam L Drone Link Augmentor I E500 Prototype Energy Vampire Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5
Ze4K DK Gallente Nova-Tek Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.07.13 07:06:00 - [12] First you want a Redeemer... Then you want a Nightmare... Or a Machariel... Why not get a t1 BS and get used to playing the game for a fraction of the isk? They're great for both pvp and pve and you won't (hopefully) ragequit if it gets blown up... To answer your question though... The Nightmare is beyond awesome if you have the skills to fly it properly (character and player skills)... And ofcourse enough isk to not care too much about getting it blown up... I wouldn't bother with the machariel, it's been kinda meh since the nano-nerf...
Cavazos Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.13 07:11:00 - [13] Originally by: Ze4K DK First you want a Redeemer... Then you want a Nightmare... Or a Machariel... Why not get a t1 BS and get used to playing the game for a fraction of the isk? They're great for both pvp and pve and you won't (hopefully) ragequit if it gets blown up... To answer your question though... The Nightmare is beyond awesome if you have the skills to fly it properly (character and player skills)... And ofcourse enough isk to not care too much about getting it blown up... I wouldn't bother with the machariel, it's been kinda meh since the nano-nerf... played game for 4yrs bud. ive never used a mach or nightmare for MISSIONS and i was asking about the redeemer or pvp and seeing if it was worth the training time for it. my m8 use to run a machariel pure republic fleet fit did 2-3k on regular hits and 5-7k wrecking hits. just about popped BS's in 1 volley. those are single weapon hits btw not grouped
Shereza	Posted - 2009.07.13 07:16:00 - [14] Frankly they're both worth the cost if you plan on using and having fun with them. The nightmare is one of the easiest battleships to fit for missions as it can armor tank, active shield tank, and passive shield tank and do most of them even while fitting the most grid-hungry guns in the game. I originally started flying it with pulse lasers and an afterburner but after switching to tachyons and dropped the afterburner I never really looked back. Even given the cap consumption of tachyons and an XL shield booster, if you go that route, the nightmare can still remain surprisingly cap-effective with only a little work. One of the more interesting sides of the nightmare, and not one I expect much of anyone to ever really take advantage of, is the fact that it's lack of tanking bonuses and slot layout means it can run an active shield or armor tank or a passive shield tank and still do surprisingly well every which way. The machariel, on the other hand, performs best as either a long-range sniper of sorts or a short-range gut ripper of a ship, neither of which ultimately lends themselves well to mission running for most people. I started out flying it as a passively shield-tanked long-range ship using 1200mm artillery and cruise launchers. After awhile I decided I'd rather have the versatility of being able to swap between active armor and active shield tanking, but ever since I made that switch I've almost never shield-tanked it outside of Angel/Minmatar missions. The typical fitting I use for it involves 800mm repeating artillery, despite the fact that their tracking is worse than you'd expect, lower than neutron blasters in fact, and siege launchers with an afterburner. The machariel is probably one of the best battleships for a short-range setup in missions simply because its base speed is higher than every BC but the minmatar ones, and only 4m/s slower than them. With a Republic Fleet 100mn Afterburner it can pull speeds upwards of 470m/s and a core x-type 100mn AB can bump you over 500m/s. Combine top speeds like that with a good faction webber, true sansha or domination, and you'll avoid a lot of the hassle other ships face when chasing around NPCs. Bear in mind, however, that while the nightmare is "worth it" as a solid workhorse that can chew through missions the machariel isn't. It's "worth it" in more of a "I just want to have fun and damn efficiency" sort of fashion, a lot like many American muscle cars. ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.
DARTHxFREE State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.07.13 07:17:00 - [15] Edited by: DARTHxFREE on 13/07/2009 07:17:47 Thiers nuthing really special about the Macharial, other then it's speed. Tis just an armor tanking fleet tempest in disguise, from a PVE point of view,...that's not a good thing. PVP, still not good since.. Machariel ..even a rag-tag fleet of Caldari Militia can catch one. /join Cheeze & Whine Club
Cavazos Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.13 07:20:00 - [16] huh..... nightmare sounds like a SEXY BIO**H LOL!!!!
EFT Warrior	Posted - 2009.07.13 07:43:00 - [17] I find the Machariel to be roughly on par with the Vargur, but it's slightly faster than the Vagur at the cost of doing slightly less DPS. I would use it as an AC boat with an XL booster, but if you have a few billion ISK to spend, spend it on a Vargur if you have the skills, because the tractor bonus trumps any advantage the Mach would have.
Nova Satar Annihilate.	Posted - 2009.07.13 07:46:00 - [18] nightmare yes, mach no
Morel Nova z3r0 Gravity YARRR and CO	Posted - 2009.07.13 08:18:00 - [19] if you get a nightmare, t2 fit guns, rest of it should be faction where it matters. damage mods and shield booster especially. Put in space whales!
Forge Lag Jita Lag Preservation Fund	Posted - 2009.07.13 08:31:00 - [20] Machariel is souped up Pest which given the Pest lack of performance makes it just on par with your average BS. The redeeming quality here is speed. It is not as fast as it used to be and it is kind of heavy today but it can outrun everything in missions except elite frigates. Nighmare can fit tachyons. Tachyons outdo pulses once you swap out MF crystals, and once you figure out how to track well in missions. In effect it has bonus to damage, tracking, fitting, cap consumption, ammo consumption, overheating - that's a lot. Lil PvP? Ganking maybe. You can get tens and tens of regular battleships for the cost of one of these babies. Whatever you do, ISK are expensive today, sell GTCs.

Jacob Holland Gallente Weyland-Vulcan Industries	Posted - 2009.07.13 12:13:00 - [21] To answer a question with a question... Do you have sufficient money lying around? Do you have nothing better to spend said money on? Can you fly said ships? Can you afford to lose said ships and their fits? If the answer to all these questions is yes then they're worth it... If not they're overpriced and for people who don't have the sense to fly "x". -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.07.13 21:53:00 - [22] Forget the drivel about pithi stuff and faction tachyons. A t2 x-large does fine for every lvl4 mission in existence. Small deadspace boosters may be less cap consuming but how does it matter again when you can do every mission just fine with a normal sized t2? Faction tachyons do less dps than t2 => bad. More dps = faster missions = more isk/h. Again cap stability should not be a concern at all if you fly a nightmare. Because you don't need it and its better to invest in more gank. (that is tracking computers in the mids, tracking enhancer and heat sinks in the lows) If you want to go faction/officer then go for the mods that offer increased gank only: te's, tc's and heat sinks. -- Originally by: Jasper Dark I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!


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