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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.14 09:07:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Furb Killer And additionally if the mission spawns in a bad location, where they can pinpoint you down pretty much with directional scanner and only need probes to quickly get a warpin, they will have probes out for a neglectable ammount of time. I got better stuff to do than smashing a scan button every 5 seconds to see if there are probes out.
Like say staying aligned and watching the overview? You know the game mechanics well enough to know how to keep you safe without too much effort. The fact that you still contribute to these whines is interesting. --
Originally by: Jasper Dark
I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
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Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.14 09:38:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Myra2007 on 14/07/2009 09:40:23
Originally by: Furb Killer Do you even realise it is not practical to stay alligned all the time in a mission?
Obviously you're not supposed to be 100% safe at all times during a mission in lowsec. Are you saying this should be any different?
You can align in 95% of all situations. In those that you cannot you are usually 50km away from the pocket entrance or you are already in one of the later pockets. It should be obvious why that is not a big deal.
Of course i can not and will not deny the fact that there are small windows of vulnerability even if you're aware. But again i think given it is lowsec and pvp is supposed to happen in this game that this may be very much intended.
Now about this "do you even realize" rhetoric. I've run hundreds of exploration sites, complexes and since apocrypha also a lot of wormholes. I've been caught once or twice in all this time (~2years or something since i've been in that business). And thats without clicking the scanner button every 5 seconds. So, yes, i am not just talking out of my butt here.
As for missions i've only run a very few missions in lowsec due to the shady profitability. I am pretty much experienced with every lvl4 mission though due to extensive grinding for pos standings back when i lived in hisec. Maybe i should post with one of my high sec-status/high standing chars but that wouldn't change my argument one bit.
Lowsec missions are unprofitable. This however is not a matter of safety because not getting caught is rather easy. (And again i state that you know this very well.) Its just so that the rewards aren't where they need to be to make it attractive. I've said this for years btw.
Of course i'd be very much interested to hear how did i manage to stay alive through all those years if you just can't without pressing the scan button every 5 seconds? Because i never did that. Probably i am just superlucky, right?
edit: and no i don't advocate lvl4 hisec nerfs. I advocate lowsec/0.0 mission boosting. Why in hell would anyone be opposed? --
Originally by: Jasper Dark
I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
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Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.14 17:34:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Exlegion
Originally by: Orion GUardian The problem is not surviving. [...]
Surviving is easy, staying aligned, being cautious and warping out as soon as possible if someone shows up an is decloaked by the can at the beacon that is 50km away from you.
Thank you and great post. This is exactly the problem with low sec.
So, we're making progress i see. You finally admit that safety is not the problem but profitability. Then why do you want to change the directional scanner/probe mechanics please?
Instead you could lobby for more payouts and would have half of the more pvp-focused crowd on your side. You go on talking about how often you need to press the scanner button when you just openly admitted that staying alive is easy without resorting to such tactics.
Still your post in the assembly hall still talks about how you absolutely have to press the scan button 12 times per minute.
It proves again that you are being deceptive like i said in the other thread. --
Originally by: Jasper Dark
I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
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Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.14 20:55:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Exlegion
I wonÆt spend much time arguing with you as it is futile discussing this with players that insist not pressing a button every 5 seconds is me ôbeing lazyö. Just try and understand the following:
I did not at any time call you lazy. I called you deceptive and for a good reason.
Instead i explained several times that i do pve in lowsec for a living. And i do not need to press that button every 5 seconds. You also amitted that yourself in the quoted post. So why do you bring this up like a broken record?
Originally by: Exlegion
In low sec: Extreme safety = Low profitability (even lower than high sec)
I already stated that there is a profitibility problem with missions in lowsec due to interruptions. I proposed making the rewards better.
Originally by: Exlegion
The current state of the directional scanner + combat probes is ensuring the equation above holds true.
No, because you do not have to use the scanner every 5 seconds to be reasonably safe. I know this from extensive first hand experience. Not only that but you know it too and admitted it in the post i quoted. Hence the reason why i said you are deceptive (and continue to be).
Originally by: Exlegion
I never said I have a problem in staying alive in low sec. In fact IÆve stated numerous times I expect to die in low sec. But what I also expect is to make a decent living there as well; even better than high sec. Please point to where I have said something different from the above?
For example when you iterate that you have to press the scan button every 5 seconds. We have already established that this is not true. Actually it is not you dieing that is a problem for your profitibility; but its the fact that the rewards aren't high enough.
Originally by: Exlegion
I know some of you are benefitting from this loophole and will go out fighting tooth and nail to ensure this remains unbalanced as long as itÆs in your favor.
Please stop putting me into some arbitrary categories that fit your argument. Thats ad hominem and pretty weak. I also would really like you to actually *READ* my posts (duh). In that case you would know by now that i do lowsec pve FOR A LIVING. So, obviously this "loophole" does not benefit me at all.
And again you fail to answer this simple point: if staying alive is no problem for you and me then what exactly is this "loophole" you mention?
Originally by: Exlegion
IÆll tell you this. IÆd be against any mechanic, including one negatively impcating pirates, requiring anyone having to spam a button every 5 seconds just to play the game correctly, simply because this ôtwitchö style of play is below the standards IÆve come to expect from CCP. And IÆm also convinced it is just an oversight from CCPÆs part. Hopefully it will get fixed sooner rather than later.
We have established that you do not need to press that button all the time just to stay alive. So please stop evading my point. With an autorepeat function people will still probe you out and keep you from running missions. So your profitability will still be fubar. How hard is that to understand?
Your "solution" doesn't solve any problems at all. --
Originally by: Jasper Dark
I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
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Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.14 21:22:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Clair Bear
If having a brain means expending a huge amount of extra effort combined with taking on more risk for the same reward I'm better off remaining brainless.
Originally by: murder one I agree with you that lowsec rewards aren't up to snuff. I don't think an increase of 10-20x the current rewards is unreasonable.
And i don't think he was being sarcastic. Just saying... --
Originally by: Jasper Dark
I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
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Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.14 23:19:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Exlegion
Please enlighten me on how I can detect a player probing me with his directional scanner [...]
You do not need to. You just stay aligned, drop a can at warpin etc. As soon as someone enters grid you're gone. From your earlier comments we agree on this part.
Originally by: Exlegion
Again, my objective is to not have the location of my mission COMPROMISED. Once pirates have scanned down my mission deadspace it's pretty much a loss of time and ISK.
You can finish the missions later. If they try to catch you again they will fail again because you are aligned. Yes, those interruptions do cost isk/hr but this could be offset with the higher rewards i keep promoting.
At some point in time they will leave and the fact that they still have the bookmark means nothing because you will still be aligned and warping out if they actually do try to catch you a second time.
Originally by: Exlegion
And your argument is that this isnÆt true, that IÆm lying and being deceitful.
No, that is not my argument. That is a judgement that i infer from you ignoring my actual argument again and again. Also with the derogatory comments towards me from your side i don't think you can play the holier than you card. So lets stick to the issues.
Originally by: Exlegion
Care in explaining how IÆm missing the combat probes even though IÆm constantly scanning for them, in about intervals of 30 seconds per scan?
If you get pinned down with the directional scanner it may be possible (not always but still) to have the probes only show up on scan for a few seconds (much less than thirty). But why do you ask this question? We both know the answer and i have not once argued that point.
I am saying that you can keep alive without using the scanner *at all*. You agreed.
Now your argument is that a compromised mission location is a problem. And i am trying to explain to you why this is not the case, why its even irrational to think it is.
We have established (again you agreed to this specific point) that whether or not you get scanned down it is rather simple to keep aligned and leave the mission area once a hostile shows up.
Ok, how does it even matter if a pirate has bookmarked your mission then? He will not catch you because you are aware and aligned, right?
The only way it does matter is the fact that said pirate can force you to stop running missions hence reducing your profitability. I've agreed that the interruptions are a profitability problem which you conveniently ignored.
But and please try to understand this as it is the only point i've ever argued: even with the old system (where you had plenty of time to notice the probes on scanner) the effect would be the same: as long as the pirate is around you can't run missions. As soon as hes gone you can continue.
As long as scanning is even remotely viable in this game this will never change. It does not depend on whether he knows your actual location or not. It is a function of *his* location (or that of his tackling/probing alts).
And for that problem i've proposed substantially better rewards so that in the end you have better isk than the hisec guy despite constant interruptions which is only fair and square for the effort and risk.
However you're right about the fact that we're not going to agree. Maybe if ccp changes the new system so that probes move the moment you change their position on the solarmap as opposed to when you hit scan you will realize how right i was and that your profitability is as fubar as it has ever been.
Why you wouldn't rather want the increase in payout is beyond me tbh. Anyway have fun fighting the good fight instead of actually promoting changes that will make your profession viable economically. --
Originally by: Jasper Dark
I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
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Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.15 00:03:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Myra2007
You can finish the missions later. If they try to catch you again they will fail again because you are aligned.
Originally by: Clair Bear
If only it were possible to fly a recon or covops by manually by clicking in space ahead of your target to bump them out of alignment long enough to be tackled and subsequently gangbanged.
If only it were possible to move away from the warpin point. *yawn* If you want to be smartass please at least make valid points.
And again this is lowsec you are not opposed to be 100% safe. The current 99% would do just fine with respective rewards.
Originally by: Clair Bear
There are also windows of opportunity (immediately after warp in, fishtailing near a gate, tackled by NPCs in well known parts of missions) where the mission runner simply does not have the opportunity to warp out.
Yes, yes you are not 100% safe. And no change of the directional scanner will change this. If your point is that mission runners in lowsec should not ever be found and or killed ok then thats your opinion.
Personally i'd rather live in a world where the mission runners can make good isk and the pvp crowd can get a few kills on them here and there. I think its called balance but w/e.
Your implication that it is somewhat easy to kill an alert mission runner once you have bookmarked his location is flat out wrong. Of course you will get a kill here and there nothing more and i think its fine that way.
--
Originally by: Jasper Dark
I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
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Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.15 00:45:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Exlegion
[...]
Well, i am tired too. But let me put it this way: i wouldn't be opposed to a change where you can spot the probes earlier like it was pre-apocrypha.
I would however be opposed to any change that makes careless players (not you mind you but they are out there) more safe. Because carelessness should not be rewarded in eve imho.
I.e. what if the probes moved the instant you position them on the solarmap? From personal experience i would assume this will leave a window of about 30seconds-1minute (to position the 4 probes around the location you've pinpointed with the directional scanner). This would still leave a window for skilled probers to make a lucky catch, but it would be rather narrow if the mission runner is watching.
Anyway my main point that the profitability remains fubar still stands. I don't think anyone can really argue that. And as long as this doesn't get dealt with all changes to probing in the world will not really make a difference imo.
After all i'd like to emphasize i didn't want to make this personal. Sometimes when communicating text-based it's hard to differentiate a misunderstanding from trolling, or rhetoric from actual meaning. I guess i have been guilty of this at a point in this thread so for that accept my apologies. --
Originally by: Jasper Dark
I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
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