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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.07.15 12:55:00 -
[1]
Other people have covered this topic from the point of view of the hunter, but as fas as I know, the point of view of the prey hasn't been explored in any great amount of detail, so here goes.
0. The easy way
Fit and activate a cloaking device. For virtually everyone, nearly all of the time, this is much simpler and is the recommended method. However, in certain circumstances you might want to be able to active modules at a distance while remaining hidden, e.g. gang links.
1. The hard way
First, we need the idea of target size. This, together with range, determines what strength of hit a probe will get on your ship. Target size is calculated as sig radius / sensor strength. The smaller your ship's target size, the harder it is for people to probe you down.
What many people do not realise, however, is that there is a certain minimum target size below which it is impossible for anyone to get a 100% warpable hit on your ship. Without a 100% hit, people can't warp to you, and you're safe from being probed.
Multiple probes get up to double the % strength of hit of a single probe, so the limiting case is when the strongest hit a single combat probe can get (operating at the shortest 0.5 au range) is exactly 50%. Working backwards through the formulas set out by others gives the following formula:
Min. scannable target size = 5 / str_factor,
where str_factor is the effective scan strength of the prober pilot after taking all bonuses into account (i.e. 10% per level of covert ops, rigs, sisters launcher, etc). For a covert ops prober with perfect skills, a full virtue set and Sisters equipment, this value is 1.08012498.
This may seem an ambitious goal for something as large as a battlecruiser, with a base target size of about 256/16 = 16, but there are quite a lot of effects that you can deploy to your advantage. Enter the lowly ECCM II, which almost doubles your ship's sensor strength, and the ECCM Projector II, which gives the target a 120% bonus.
2. Example
A warfare-linked Claymore with max leadership skills & mindlink implant becomes totally immune to probes when fitting 2x ECCM II and targeted with 3x ECCM projector II. If the prober doesn't have an expensive Virtue set, or the pilot has Halo implants, it can drop one module and still be impossible to find.
So far, I've been very paranoid about potential probers. If your ship is only just above the prober's minimum scannable target size, you will still be extremely difficult to find. They will need near-perfect probe placement and hardly any scan deviation to get a 100% hit.
It will be interesting to see what happens to the recently announced +75% sensor strength implant set, which, assuming that the bonus is not subject to a stacking penalty, will make it much easier to do this.
3. Further reading - spreadsheet
For now, here's a spreadsheet I put together which lets you play around with different setups, as the various gang & implant effects get a bit complicated:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/KzIg/probe_immunity.zip
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Gold Rogers
Maiden England
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Posted - 2009.07.15 13:19:00 -
[2]
Nice guide but isn't the Claymore example a bit redudent since they would be three other ships nearby projecting ECCM, what's to stop them being probed out?
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.15 13:20:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Gold Rogers
Nice guide but isn't the Claymore example a bit redudent since they would be three other ships nearby projecting ECCM, what's to stop them being probed out?
Incidentally, CS - especially the claymore - can run a gang warfare link that reduces sig radius a fair bit.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.07.15 13:22:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 15/07/2009 13:26:26
You could put multiple projectors on another ship which would itself only need 1 or 2 ECCM active to become immune. Falcons are particularly good at this, as they have a really high sensor strength for their size, and lots of mid slots.
With the Falcon + Claymore combo, the Falcon benefits from the Claymore's gang bonus and only needs 2x ECCM II + 1x Backup array II (less fitting / cap) and has up to 5 mid slots free for ECCM projectors.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.07.15 13:31:00 -
[5]
Also, Falcon + Claymore + mothership = invulnerable fighter deployment. This time, the Claymore pilot uses a few mid slots for ECCM, so the Falcon can target the mothership, which is free to use a conventional fit.
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.07.15 13:38:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
where str_factor is the effective scan strength of the prober pilot after taking all bonuses into account (i.e. 10% per level of covert ops, rigs, sisters launcher, etc). For a covert ops prober with perfect skills, a full virtue set and Sisters equipment, this value is 1.08012498.
You may want to clarify this paragraph. The claymore you gave has a signal strength of 240 / 170 = 1.41176471. If you mean the str_factor = 1.08 this is massive overkill. If you meant that 5 / str_factor = 1.08, then it's actually not enough. Either that or eft is calculating multiple stacking eccms differently from you.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Mystical Dawn
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Posted - 2009.07.15 14:12:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
where str_factor is the effective scan strength of the prober pilot after taking all bonuses into account (i.e. 10% per level of covert ops, rigs, sisters launcher, etc). For a covert ops prober with perfect skills, a full virtue set and Sisters equipment, this value is 1.08012498.
You may want to clarify this paragraph. The claymore you gave has a signal strength of 240 / 170 = 1.41176471. If you mean the str_factor = 1.08 this is massive overkill. If you meant that 5 / str_factor = 1.08, then it's actually not enough. Either that or eft is calculating multiple stacking eccms differently from you.
It's funny how to some people the EFT is like a bible. 
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.07.15 14:15:00 -
[8]
The Claymore sensor strength I get is 169.73; close enough, I think. This combined with gang bonuses that multiply its sig radius by 0.74125 gives it a target size of 240 * 0.74125 / 170 = 1.046. This is less than the value of 5 / str_factor for a perfect prober, who cannot pinpoint it.
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.07.15 14:19:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Gold Rogers
Nice guide but isn't the Claymore example a bit redudent since they would be three other ships nearby projecting ECCM, what's to stop them being probed out?
It's easy to make a unprobable Merlin with 3 med slots free for projected ECCM. So your 3 probable ships become one unprobable one.
--
081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner
blog |
Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.07.15 14:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
The Claymore sensor strength I get is 169.73; close enough, I think. This combined with gang bonuses that multiply its sig radius by 0.74125 gives it a target size of 240 * 0.74125 / 170 = 1.046. This is less than the value of 5 / str_factor for a perfect prober, who cannot pinpoint it.
Whoops, I forgot the gang bonus. Apparently eft no longer adds it in automatically .
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
rodensteiner
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:12:00 -
[11]
Interesting calculations, but honestly, what's the point?
I can understand the part about "hiding" a carrier so that it can assign fighters without having to worry about being found.
But for the rest of ships, just keep warping. It takes a bit of time to scan someone down, so don't sit at a certain spot for long enough to find you.
Personally, when flying an Interceptor and I feel like laying low for a while, I'll warp to a safespot and burn in a random direction at 4,000+ m/s. I'm not terribly worried about being scan downed when doing that. Say someone scanned me, and it takes them 30 seconds to warp to me, I'll already be over 120km away from where I was scanned from by the time they get there.
I'll readily admit to doing that and walking away from the computer for a while on numerous occasions :)
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:17:00 -
[12]
Originally by: rodensteiner
Interesting calculations, but honestly, what's the point?
I can understand the part about "hiding" a carrier so that it can assign fighters without having to worry about being found.
But for the rest of ships, just keep warping. It takes a bit of time to scan someone down, so don't sit at a certain spot for long enough to find you.
Personally, when flying an Interceptor and I feel like laying low for a while, I'll warp to a safespot and burn in a random direction at 4,000+ m/s. I'm not terribly worried about being scan downed when doing that. Say someone scanned me, and it takes them 30 seconds to warp to me, I'll already be over 120km away from where I was scanned from by the time they get there.
I'll readily admit to doing that and walking away from the computer for a while on numerous occasions :)
Covert cyno is one use.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Wolke 7
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:21:00 -
[13]
The hiding a mothership/ carrier does not hold water, a pober with wit will probe for fighters too and if the timing is right, bingo. 
But thank You for the insights.
Does anyone know how DEadspace fits into the calculations? Noone seems to have a problem probing me there recently..
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Wolke 7
The hiding a mothership/ carrier does not hold water, a pober with wit will probe for fighters too and if the timing is right, bingo.
But thank You for the insights.
Does anyone know how DEadspace fits into the calculations? Noone seems to have a problem probing me there recently..
It doesn't. Deadspace no longer gives any protection from probing.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Wolke 7
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:33:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega
Originally by: Wolke 7
The hiding a mothership/ carrier does not hold water, a pober with wit will probe for fighters too and if the timing is right, bingo.
But thank You for the insights.
Does anyone know how DEadspace fits into the calculations? Noone seems to have a problem probing me there recently..
It doesn't. Deadspace no longer gives any protection from probing.
Whoops That explains it. Grim
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Bladen Kerst
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:37:00 -
[16]
Very interesting stuff, thank you!
If 1.08 is an absoulute theoretical minimum, I suppose a practical minimum is a little bit higher? I mean you need those probes sitting directly on top of target to get that 100% hit and it would take quite sometime to achieve it
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.07.15 16:38:00 -
[17]
Originally by: rodensteiner
Interesting calculations, but honestly, what's the point?
I can understand the part about "hiding" a carrier so that it can assign fighters without having to worry about being found.
But for the rest of ships, just keep warping. It takes a bit of time to scan someone down, so don't sit at a certain spot for long enough to find you.
Gang links don't work in warp, so probe proofing a command ship is actually very useful.
--
081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner
blog |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.07.15 16:57:00 -
[18]
Slight improvement on earlier: Rook + mothership = unscannable fighter deployment. Ok, so it's not the most practical of fits if you don't have a carrier around to swap it out:
[Rook, MS ECCM cloak]
Gravimetric Backup Array II
Gravimetric Backup Array II
Capacitor Power Relay II
ECCM Projector II
ECCM Projector II
ECCM Projector II
ECCM Projector II
ECCM Projector II
ECCM - Gravimetric II
ECCM - Gravimetric II
Rigs/highs of choice. Cap stable, good to hide 1 mothership of choice, while itself being impossible to probe down.
I dare someone to try this out in Rancer and see how many people they get looking for them.
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
The NightClub
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Posted - 2009.07.15 18:15:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
It's still an interesting way of hiding a covert cyno ship.
It would be... if a Rook could cloak and follow the Covert Cyno ship in its way to the destination.
Why not throw the same fit into a Falcon, tagging along with a CovCyno fitted Falcon... then both set up in a deep safe and play Hide and Go Gank. |
Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.07.15 18:30:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Davinel Lulinvega on 15/07/2009 18:30:50
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
It's still an interesting way of hiding a covert cyno ship.
It would be... if a Rook could cloak and follow the Covert Cyno ship in its way to the destination.
Why not throw the same fit into a Falcon, tagging along with a CovCyno fitted Falcon... then both set up in a deep safe and play Hide and Go Gank.
You don't need 2 falcons to do that. 4 eccms + covops + covert cyno is enough. Or even better, just a covops with 1 or 2 eccms.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.07.15 19:07:00 -
[21]
Logistic ships with ECCM... nothing better to stay hidden without a cloak :)
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.07.15 19:24:00 -
[22]
Hmm, should maybe change topic to "[Guide] How to make your ship generally useless but impossible to probe".
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Wannabehero
Absolutely No Retreat
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Posted - 2009.07.15 20:19:00 -
[23]
So any covert ops with an ECCM II and a single backup array should be pretty much an unprobe-able covert cynoer.
Interesting...
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≡√≡ Don't harsh my mellow |
Iece Quaan
Caldari
Aperture Harmonics
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Posted - 2009.07.15 20:41:00 -
[24]
You could probably make a t3 warfare module ship probe proof without a second ship.
Someone run those numbers, please =)
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.07.15 20:51:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Iece Quaan
You could probably make a t3 warfare module ship probe proof without a second ship.
Someone run those numbers, please =)
[Loki, gaymore]
Co-Processor II
Damage Control II
Co-Processor II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Conjunctive Ladar ECCM Scanning Array I
Conjunctive Ladar ECCM Scanning Array I
Skirmish Warfare Link - Evasive Maneuvers
Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers
Skirmish Warfare Link - Rapid Deployment
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
Loki Defensive - Warfare Processor
Loki Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Loki Engineering - Supplemental Coolant Injector
Loki Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier
Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.07.15 21:00:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Hmm, should maybe change topic to "[Guide] How to make your ship generally useless but impossible to probe".
Noted, but I only take self-deprecation so far 
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari
Fyretracker Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.15 21:35:00 -
[27]
i wonder has anyone used this to bait in a "probe ganker" in low sec? hide a bunch of badass ships and just have a raven with them(since in say a .4 system a lone raven is bound to scream mission runner). unless they also probe for the rats and notice none.
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.07.16 02:35:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker
i wonder has anyone used this to bait in a "probe ganker" in low sec? hide a bunch of badass ships and just have a raven with them(since in say a .4 system a lone raven is bound to scream mission runner). unless they also probe for the rats and notice none.
That would be pretty awesome if it worked.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.07.16 02:59:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker
i wonder has anyone used this to bait in a "probe ganker" in low sec? hide a bunch of badass ships and just have a raven with them(since in say a .4 system a lone raven is bound to scream mission runner). unless they also probe for the rats and notice none.
Which would work wonderfully, until you spot the two fatal flaws:
1) Your "hidden" ships have hilariously useless fits on them thanks to filling all their slots with ECCM, which means they are little more than free kills.
2) This doesn't hide anything from the directional scan, and most people will notice the extra ships on scan and people in local.
==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Bladen Kerst
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.07.16 07:13:00 -
[30]
Carrier can assign fighters to other ships so one way or the other it is still called unprobeble fighter deployment :)
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Arous Drephius
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Posted - 2009.07.16 10:08:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
Which would work wonderfully, until you spot the two fatal flaws:
1) Your "hidden" ships have hilariously useless fits on them thanks to filling all their slots with ECCM, which means they are little more than free kills.
2) This doesn't hide anything from the directional scan, and most people will notice the extra ships on scan and people in local.
3. You'd also be able to pick up the other ships with the probes (and possibly the ship types too), you just couldn't get warpable hits on them.
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Terra Mikael
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.07.16 13:44:00 -
[32]
This is pretty dumb.
Forgive me for not seeing the point, but this is a lot of work for almost nothing.
Why don't you just keep moving? If you think hostiles are following you, don't stay put for a long amount of time. fly between safe spots.
why you would sit still in a command ship with your Merlin buddies sensor boosting you instead of just moving your ass doesn't make a lot of sense.
________________________________
Originally by: Lone Gunman
Yes overpowered would be giving a ship with the Covert ops cloak the ability to fire say..Torpedos, now that would be overpowered. But CCP would |
Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.07.16 14:05:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Terra Mikael
why you would sit still in a command ship with your Merlin buddies sensor boosting you instead of just moving your ass doesn't make a lot of sense.
Because you are busy fighting on another char.
--
081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner
blog |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.07.16 14:40:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Terra Mikael
Why don't you just keep moving? If you think hostiles are following you, don't stay put for a long amount of time. fly between safe spots.
There are two good reasons that have been put forward in this thread:
1. Covert cyno placement - you can't move or cloak during that time iirc, even if it's only for 60 seconds.
2. Someone else claimed that gang links don't work during warp- if so, having to move around constantly would pretty much negate them.
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MarieFrance Tessier
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Posted - 2009.07.16 15:56:00 -
[35]
What is the base targeting size of an MWDing drone, by the way? (of each size)
Does this make Drone ships never unscannable while fighting?
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.07.16 18:35:00 -
[36]
4.44 for heavies/sentries, 4 for meds, 3.33 for lights - all well within the comfortable range of most probers. You could try keeping them all targeted with ECCM projectors if you had nothing better to do, but it's not worth the bother.
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Cobalt Sixty
Caldari
Piezochem
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Posted - 2009.07.16 19:26:00 -
[37]
Interesting, if only in a mostly intellectual capacity - but still interesting enough to consider.
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
It will be interesting to see what happens to the recently announced +75% sensor strength implant set, which, assuming that the bonus is not subject to a stacking penalty, will make it much easier to do this.
I was at first confused by these (It isn't as though the unwashed masses are still hysterically declaring "BECAUSE OF FALCON!" everywhere, anymore - hence another anti-ECM measure) and I still question their overall practicality ... but they could certainly contribute to something that is interesting enough to give consideration. Thanks for the post.
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insidion
Caldari
Last of the Technocracy
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Posted - 2009.07.17 01:27:00 -
[38]
Its black magic I tell you!
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Enden Assulu
Caldari
Blood Money Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.17 02:25:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Enden Assulu on 17/07/2009 02:26:15
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
[Rook, MS ECCM cloak]
You can't use any e-war on a mother ship, EFT doesn't account for this.
Also warping turns off gang links so moving around in a CS is pretty ****ing useless.
Click the image! |
Davinel Lulinvega
|
Posted - 2009.07.17 02:36:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Enden Assulu
Edited by: Enden Assulu on 17/07/2009 02:26:15
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
[Rook, MS ECCM cloak]
You can't use any e-war on a mother ship, EFT doesn't account for this.
Also warping turns off gang links so moving around in a CS is pretty ****ing useless.
Does eccm count as ewar?
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Enden Assulu
Caldari
Blood Money Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.07.17 02:43:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega
Originally by: Enden Assulu
Edited by: Enden Assulu on 17/07/2009 02:26:15
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
[Rook, MS ECCM cloak]
You can't use any e-war on a mother ship, EFT doesn't account for this.
Also warping turns off gang links so moving around in a CS is pretty ****ing useless.
Does eccm count as ewar?
I think it does, gonna go try it out.
Click the image! |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.07.17 12:14:00 -
[42]
FYI, I did edit that post to say that it won't quite work - motherships have sensor strength of 150, not 1000 as per EFT, so you can't make them completely unprobeable this way.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.07.17 12:15:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 17/07/2009 12:17:51
Double post.
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ChinaWillGrowLarger
Heretic Command
|
Posted - 2009.07.17 13:35:00 -
[44]
[Thanatos, New Setup 1]
Magnetometric Backup Array II
Magnetometric Backup Array II
Magnetometric Backup Array II
Magnetometric Backup Array II
Magnetometric Backup Array II
Magnetometric Backup Array II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Durability Enhancer I
Drone Control Range Augmentor I
Drone Speed Augmentor I
Firbolg x15
High Grade Halo Set and a Strong X-Instinct booster.
1995 Sig Res, 600+ Sensor Strength (900+ when overloading).
What if we add max skilled Command ships with Information and Skirmish wafare mindlinks?
How difficult would this be to probe out?
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
|
Posted - 2009.07.17 14:12:00 -
[45]
Originally by: ChinaWillGrowLarger
[Thanatos, New Setup 1]
Magnetometric Backup Array II
Magnetometric Backup Array II
Magnetometric Backup Array II
Magnetometric Backup Array II
Magnetometric Backup Array II
Magnetometric Backup Array II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Durability Enhancer I
Drone Control Range Augmentor I
Drone Speed Augmentor I
Firbolg x15
High Grade Halo Set and a Strong X-Instinct booster.
1995 Sig Res, 600+ Sensor Strength (900+ when overloading).
What if we add max skilled Command ships with Information and Skirmish wafare mindlinks?
How difficult would this be to probe out?
It's not probable, go fly it, you are safe.
Or you could read the first post (and learn about the stacking penalty while you're at it)
--
081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner
blog |
MarieFrance Tessier
|
Posted - 2009.07.17 16:23:00 -
[46]
Originally by: ChinaWillGrowLarger
[Thanatos, New Setup 1]
Magnetometric Backup Array II
Magnetometric Backup Array II
Magnetometric Backup Array II
Magnetometric Backup Array II
Magnetometric Backup Array II
Magnetometric Backup Array II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Durability Enhancer I
Drone Control Range Augmentor I
Drone Speed Augmentor I
Firbolg x15
High Grade Halo Set and a Strong X-Instinct booster.
1995 Sig Res, 600+ Sensor Strength (900+ when overloading).
What if we add max skilled Command ships with Information and Skirmish wafare mindlinks?
How difficult would this be to probe out?
Slap a halo set on your thanatos pilot :)
(Or the new faction warfare set :P) |
Jedziah
|
Posted - 2009.07.17 18:40:00 -
[47]
[Ragnarok, Unprobeable]
LADAR Backup Array II
LADAR Backup Array II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Capital Armor Repairer I
Damage Control II
Conjunctive Ladar ECCM Scanning Array I
Conjunctive Ladar ECCM Scanning Array I
Conjunctive Ladar ECCM Scanning Array I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Skirmish Warfare Link - Evasive Maneuvers
Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers
Skirmish Warfare Link - Rapid Deployment
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Large 'Vehemence' I Shockwave Charge
Large 'Vehemence' I Shockwave Charge
Gjallarhorn
Jump Portal Generator I
Low Friction Nozzle Joints II
Low Friction Nozzle Joints II
Low Friction Nozzle Joints II
With full Halos and the Skirmish mindlink: 6642 Sensor Strength, 5927.18 Sig Radius.
Someone got a Rag to test it with? :P
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.07.18 11:35:00 -
[48]
Warning to EFT warriors: EFT values for base sensor strengths of motherships & itans are incorrect (1k each, should be 150 / 200 respectively). The above fit will not work.
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ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.07.18 12:04:00 -
[49]
Interesting T3 application of this idea that someone sent me: unscannable bubble-proof probing command ship.
[Tengu, ECCM CS]
Gravimetric Backup Array II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I
Skirmish Warfare Link - Evasive Maneuvers
Information Warfare Link - Sensor Integrity
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe I
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Efficiency
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing
Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
[empty rig slot]
Tengu Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Tengu Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Tengu Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Tengu Defensive - Warfare Processor
Also, forgot about the gang bonus for increasing sensor strength - will add it to the spreadsheet.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.07.18 13:25:00 -
[50]
Updated spreadsheet now available: Linkage.
Changes:- Added sensor strength gang bonus calculation
- Moved inputs to separate sheets for clarity
- Added support for T3 warfare link bonuses
- Added hyperlinks for quick navigation between worksheets
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Unknown Appliant
|
Posted - 2009.07.18 14:34:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Updated spreadsheet now available: Linkage.
Changes:- Added sensor strength gang bonus calculation
- Moved inputs to separate sheets for clarity
- Added support for T3 warfare link bonuses
- Added hyperlinks for quick navigation between worksheets
404
Sorry, the stargate denies you access
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.07.18 14:38:00 -
[52]
Sorry, waiting for an old version to be cleared from the eve-files cache. Try this one.
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achoura
|
Posted - 2009.07.18 14:54:00 -
[53]
You know what would be really interesting would be the new 75% to sensor strength implants factoring into your working. After all, were getting them in a month. Personalyl i'm just glad they're not breaking the game
***The EVE servers and their patches*** |
Jus Lookin
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 23:33:00 -
[54]
The only use I, a carebear, see for this would be the ability to somehow make my mission running ships immune to scandown so I can mission in low sec. According to your spreadsheet, to make my Navy Raven immune to scandown takes 4 projected ECCM on another ship. That is doable. The problem is the other ship.
If I make the other ship a scorpion, I am using 4 mids to keep my Raven non-scanable. This leaves 4 mids and 4 lows for personal ECCM, and with all 8 of these slots in use for personal ECCM, that is not enough to make the scorpion unscannable. Net effect, both ships scanned down and dead.
If I make the other ship an EOS, and I have maxed skills, I only need 3 of its mids for projected ECCM to make my Navy Raven unscannable, leaving 1 mid and 6 lows. Once again, with all 7 of these slots in use for ECCM, the EOS is still scannable. Once again, net effect, both ships scanned down and dead.
If I make the second ship a Claymore, and I have maxed skills, once again I only need 3 of its mids to make the Navy Raven unscannable, leaving 3 mids and 4 lows for personal use. With all three of its mids as ECCM, it IS unscannable! YAY! Hmm, that is with max skills though. Will be 6 months of training to get my skills high enough to be able to do this, assuming CCP doesn't nerf the whole anti-probing thing.
So right now, today, mission runners working in teams of two (1 mission fitted navy raven and 1 max skill Claymore) can do missions in low-sec with impunity! When the new 75% implants are released, that will change again, and should open up a bunch of more viable ship combinations.
Oh ya, for the mission runners that are going to try this, do NOT ever launch drones, and do NOT try to bring your leet golem into lowsec in place of the Navy Raven.
|
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.07.20 08:15:00 -
[55]
Threads like this remind me why Eve is awesome and the other games are all pong in comparison 
|
Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
|
Posted - 2009.07.20 09:19:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Lubomir Penev on 20/07/2009 09:19:25
Originally by: Jus Lookin
So right now, today, mission runners working in teams of two (1 mission fitted navy raven and 1 max skill Claymore) can do missions in low-sec with impunity!
If they are not ganked at a gate or station. Also, as neither gang links nor projected ECCM work in warp you could maybe be probed as you land on your mission site. Pies would land close enough that they can MWD to you.
--
081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner
blog |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.07.20 14:03:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 20/07/2009 14:05:09
Originally by: Jus Lookin
Edit - checked Evemon - to get my mostly untrained alt into a Maxed Claymore is 240ish days. A lot can happen in that time, but I am going to train towards this anyways, as an entertaining goal :)
You can avoid training CS V if you put 2 ECCM projectors on the CNR and activate them on the Claymore, in addition to 2 backups + 2 eccm on the claymore itself plus 4 projectors on the Claymore targeting the CNR.
Edit:
Testing this to see if we can get it working with a carrier, details over in the test server forum:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1122792
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achoura
|
Posted - 2009.07.20 21:11:00 -
[58]
Loki has the same bonus and it's a rank 1 skill...
***The EVE servers and their patches*** |
Gareshor
|
Posted - 2009.07.21 13:09:00 -
[59]
Alright, I'm going to preface this post with a disclaimer that I'm VERY new to Eve and am just finishing my third week of playtime today. But a simple question...can probes detect other probes? If so, couldn't a dedicated team of scanners just put a large number of probes in a VERY tight area where you think the cyno ship is, and then start warping to the probes? Obviously it'd be more of a shotgun method, and particularly luck based, but still. Anyways, if it's a dumb idea just ignore it. I'm going to bed either way.
|
Nian Banks
Minmatar
Berserkers of Aesir
|
Posted - 2009.07.21 13:27:00 -
[60]
If anyone wants to try this with a claymore, give me 60 days to do lvl 5 of skirmish warfare specialist and warfare link specialist. Will have a max skill claymore then
|
Speshtard
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.07.21 14:14:00 -
[61]
<PAGE 3 SNIPE>
|
insidion
Caldari
Last of the Technocracy
|
Posted - 2009.07.21 18:48:00 -
[62]
I have to admit, I've read this a few times and I'm sure that I'm not the only one not getting this. Is this somehow implying that by placing a bunch of ECCM on your ship, which improves your sensor strength, you are somehow making yourself immune to being probed? Or even more bizarre, that this is somehow affecting your sig radius? Even if somehow (seemingly impossibly) this were true, surely this is a bug?
Don't make me do some testing =P
|
Davinel Lulinvega
|
Posted - 2009.07.21 19:27:00 -
[63]
Originally by: insidion
I have to admit, I've read this a few times and I'm sure that I'm not the only one not getting this. Is this somehow implying that by placing a bunch of ECCM on your ship, which improves your sensor strength, you are somehow making yourself immune to being probed? Or even more bizarre, that this is somehow affecting your sig radius? Even if somehow (seemingly impossibly) this were true, surely this is a bug?
Don't make me do some testing =P
It doesn't have to make sense. CCP for whatever reason made sensor strength part of the signal strength calculation. ECCM have no effect on your sig radius, that discussion is from the skirmish link which actually does decrease your sig.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Jus Lookin
|
Posted - 2009.07.22 05:26:00 -
[64]
Originally by: insidion
I have to admit, I've read this a few times and I'm sure that I'm not the only one not getting this. Is this somehow implying that by placing a bunch of ECCM on your ship, which improves your sensor strength, you are somehow making yourself immune to being probed? Or even more bizarre, that this is somehow affecting your sig radius? Even if somehow (seemingly impossibly) this were true, surely this is a bug?
Don't make me do some testing =P
To make it really simple:
The chance to get a hit from a probe is not just dependant on the prober's skill and the size of the target. The sensor strength of the target is also used.
The more complex version: If you can fudge your ship's signature radius down, and the sensor strength up, both of them so far that the sensor strength becomes GREATER than the signature radius, then your ship is able to hide itself from probing.
I like this ability, as it is somewhat similar to ECCM on real ships, but modified to fit an artificial environment.
So far this ability has been a non-issue in game, because the number of modules needed to do this make your ship useless for any other purpose. (Although there is a possibility to use a Claymore with an alt to cloak your battleship, as I yapped about above, that takes a LOT of training time, and so far no-one that I know of has bothered training all of the relevant skills, in the future this may change. I can't see ccp disliking this change either, cause it means single account players have to stay in high sec for missioning, but those that choose to pay $30 a month can mission in low sec. Seems like a solid budgeting decision to me, and since the low sec players can still get gate ganked and knocked off of stations, ccp can claim that the extra risk involved makes it all fair.)
At issue is the new 75% sensor strength implants, which will open up several new combinations of ships that might become unprobable. Possibly carriers. Several people were trying to make an unprobable carrier on the test server, but having a difficult time with the testing due to noone in the game training to fly the EOS after it had its guts nerfed out by ccp. Since the EOS used to be the best (only really fun fleet support ship to fly, the rest sucked), and now it is the worst (the rest still suck, just the EOS sucks more), I find it humorous that excessive nerf bat usage in place of slow, small, carefully thought out and deliberate changes are stopping people from even testing new features. Or maybe I am just bitter.
Anyways, you can test it yourself pretty easy. Take any ship you like, gang up with someone that has good leadership skills (that reduce your sig radius and/or enhance your sensor strength) and fill all your mids with tech 2 ECCM. If your sensor strength > sig radius, you are non-probable, but your ship now sucks. If your sig radius is still bigger, you need to get a better gang leader, or a smaller ratio ship, or stay in high sec.
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.07.22 12:50:00 -
[65]
Carriers are harder than I thought. It turns out that the sensor strength warfare link shares a stacking penalty with ECCM effects, making the gang bonus virtually non-existent once there are 5 ECCM projectors acting on your ship. The new implants operate at full effect.
It's still possible in a very marginal case - Ragnarok pilot with Titan V and strong X-Instinct boosters for the carrier pilot - but this isn't worth the bother, and the titan pilot can be probed down.
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Jus Lookin
|
Posted - 2009.07.22 16:09:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Carriers are harder than I thought. It turns out that the sensor strength warfare link shares a stacking penalty with ECCM effects, making the gang bonus virtually non-existent once there are 5 ECCM projectors acting on your ship. The new implants operate at full effect.
It's still possible in a very marginal case - Ragnarok pilot with Titan V and strong X-Instinct boosters for the carrier pilot - but this isn't worth the bother, and the titan pilot can be probed down.
Hmm, that sucks. Would you mind changing your spreadsheet to reflect that? I need to rerun my numbers now and see if I can still get the Claymore and Raven hidden, lol.
|
Neacail
|
Posted - 2009.07.22 17:41:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Jus Lookin
Edited by: Jus Lookin on 22/07/2009 16:48:36
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Carriers are harder than I thought. It turns out that the sensor strength warfare link shares a stacking penalty with ECCM effects, making the gang bonus virtually non-existent once there are 5 ECCM projectors acting on your ship. The new implants operate at full effect.
It's still possible in a very marginal case - Ragnarok pilot with Titan V and strong X-Instinct boosters for the carrier pilot - but this isn't worth the bother, and the titan pilot can be probed down.
Edit: the spreadsheet still needs updated, but it is the EOS that is affected, not the Claymore, so I am good. And the EOS is even worse then it was before...
Hmm, that sucks. Would you mind changing your spreadsheet to reflect that? I need to rerun my numbers now and see if I can still get the Claymore and Raven hidden, lol.
One major flaw with your plan on running missions in low sec undetectable: Every time you go through an acc gate, you will lose the projected ECCM and be scannable again. Someone who really wants to find you, and knows you're doing this, will just keep scanning non-stop until they get a 100% hit. Some good probers will also, as mentioned, scan you down before you hit the first acc gate.
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.07.22 22:04:00 -
[68]
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/KzIg/probe_immunity_v3.zip
Stacking now matches in-game behaviour, implant section neatened, x-instinct booster effects added.
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Jus Lookin
|
Posted - 2009.07.23 07:11:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Jus Lookin on 23/07/2009 07:11:29
Originally by: Neacail
Originally by: Jus Lookin
Edited by: Jus Lookin on 22/07/2009 16:48:36
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Carriers are harder than I thought. It turns out that the sensor strength warfare link shares a stacking penalty with ECCM effects, making the gang bonus virtually non-existent once there are 5 ECCM projectors acting on your ship. The new implants operate at full effect.
It's still possible in a very marginal case - Ragnarok pilot with Titan V and strong X-Instinct boosters for the carrier pilot - but this isn't worth the bother, and the titan pilot can be probed down.
Edit: the spreadsheet still needs updated, but it is the EOS that is affected, not the Claymore, so I am good. And the EOS is even worse then it was before...
Hmm, that sucks. Would you mind changing your spreadsheet to reflect that? I need to rerun my numbers now and see if I can still get the Claymore and Raven hidden, lol.
One major flaw with your plan on running missions in low sec undetectable: Every time you go through an acc gate, you will lose the projected ECCM and be scannable again. Someone who really wants to find you, and knows you're doing this, will just keep scanning non-stop until they get a 100% hit. Some good probers will also, as mentioned, scan you down before you hit the first acc gate.
I didn't see this mentioned anywhere. How can they scan me down before I hit the first gate if I am unprobeable?
Edit: Thanks for the updated spreadsheet!
|
Mara Rinn
|
Posted - 2009.07.23 08:04:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Jus Lookin
I didn't see this mentioned anywhere. How can they scan me down before I hit the first gate if I am unprobeable?
The rule of thumb is that if you are uncloaked longer than 3 seconds, you'll be probed down. So if you are on grid with the first gate for longer than 3 seconds, they'll get a warpable hit.
If they get a 100% hit on you while you are anywhere in the deadspace complex, warping to that signature will drop them out of warp at the first gate. The ECCM + Remote ECCM trick will only work when you are not warping around the place, and your two ships will need to stay in close proximity to each other.
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.07.23 08:07:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Jus Lookin
Edit: new zip file broken. Message: Cannot open file: it does not appear to be a valid archive.
I downloaded it from eve-files and it works for me. Perhaps your download was corrupt?
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v00d003
|
Posted - 2009.07.23 12:56:00 -
[72]
good info.....thanks  |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.07.23 17:15:00 -
[73]
Since I bug-reported the stacking issue a couple of days ago, the report has been marked as 'attached to a defect' and a Senior BH has stated that further QA testing is pending - at present, the intended behaviour is uncertain (i.e. stacking penalties for modules / gang links / implants that affect the same attributes). |
MarieFrance Tessier
|
Posted - 2009.07.24 02:59:00 -
[74]
Proteus with Dissolution Processor + 3xMag ECCM does this. That's actually pretty impressive. With the new faction implants, 2 ECCM is enough. That's pretty damned close to a useful ship... well, almost. |
v00d003
|
Posted - 2009.07.25 03:25:00 -
[75]
o/
|
SheriffFruitfly
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.07.27 06:42:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Interesting T3 application of this idea that someone sent me: unscannable bubble-proof probing command ship.
[Tengu, ECCM CS]
Gravimetric Backup Array II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I
Skirmish Warfare Link - Evasive Maneuvers
Information Warfare Link - Sensor Integrity
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe I
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Efficiency
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing
Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
[empty rig slot]
Tengu Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Tengu Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Tengu Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Tengu Defensive - Warfare Processor
Also, forgot about the gang bonus for increasing sensor strength - will add it to the spreadsheet.
When I eft this, I get (target size) = (sig/sens) = (150/129) = 1.163 > 1.08 = (min scannable size)
I made sure to set All Lvl 5, myself as WC, and everything turned on.
Am I missing something, or is this a close-but-no-cigar issue?
__________________________________________________________
|
alt 11
|
Posted - 2009.07.27 07:29:00 -
[77]
I wonder how many lowsec pirates have alts with "all level 5" probing skills and virtue sets though? I'd say not too damn many. You can probably be unprobable to 99% of halfassed mission gankers with less eccm, no? What would it take for an "all level 5" pilot sans virtue set to hit you?
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.07.27 14:06:00 -
[78]
Originally by: SheriffFruitfly
When I eft this, I get (target size) = (sig/sens) = (150/129) = 1.163 > 1.08 = (min scannable size)
I made sure to set All Lvl 5, myself as WC, and everything turned on.
Am I missing something, or is this a close-but-no-cigar issue?
Using EFT 2.10.4, I get 127.5 / 129 < 1.08 - you seem to be missing a sig radius bonus. What do you get if you import the fit above without making any changeS?
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Beverly Sparks
|
Posted - 2009.07.27 14:48:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Hmm, should maybe change topic to "[Guide] How to make your ship generally useless but impossible to probe".
I think it is good information. I know almost nothing about probing, so this helps.
Like he mentions, the uses are there. Bringing one useless ship on an alt to hide a useful ship is not useless.
Anyway it is nice to have the mechanics explained.
|
Babel
Boom and Bust Economics Ltd.
N0thing To See Here
|
Posted - 2009.07.27 16:57:00 -
[80]
Loki with Dissolution Sequencer and Amplification Node [subsys skills only needed to lvl4] + 2 ECCM = below 1.08
Add Covert Reconfig & Interdiction Nullifier and you have a 5-turret 0.0 missioning ship ... does fine for lvl3s with a decent fit :) .... Just avoid ebil TP'ing Angels and Minnie NPCs.
.
"Out of the good of evil born, Came Uriel's voice of cherub scorn" |
SheriffFruitfly
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.07.28 21:20:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: SheriffFruitfly
When I eft this, I get (target size) = (sig/sens) = (150/129) = 1.163 > 1.08 = (min scannable size)
I made sure to set All Lvl 5, myself as WC, and everything turned on.
Am I missing something, or is this a close-but-no-cigar issue?
Using EFT 2.10.4, I get 127.5 / 129 < 1.08 - you seem to be missing a sig radius bonus. What do you get if you import the fit above without making any changeS?
My error - had the wrong ganglink in.
__________________________________________________________
|
Hazel Starr
Snuff inc
|
Posted - 2009.07.28 23:55:00 -
[82]
Regularly probing and mission running in low-sec, you don't need to get to
the unprobeable state - simply making sure that probes have to be within 2-4AU
of you to possibly get a result is a real advantage to a missioning
ship.
Anyone without a deathwish missioning in low-sec has their directional scanner
running to watch for probes closer than the danger distance as a background activity.
Once you see one - warp out of the mission and never come back (you were aligned
to a station weren't you?)
Otherwise you're going to get a visit from Mr Arazu who'll keep you long enough
for his other friends to turn up and spoil your day.
-- Haze
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.07.29 08:05:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Hazel Starr
Anyone without a deathwish missioning in low-sec has their directional scanner
running to watch for probes closer than the danger distance as a background activity.
Problem is, people can scan you down in such a manner that you have at most a 6-second interval in which the probes will actually be visible on the directional scanner, and checking for them isn't a true background activity - it requires clicking the scan button every 5 seconds or even more.
Even if the probes have to be within directional scanner range to get a hit, they can still spend ages setting up a perfect tetrahedron while the probes are out of directional scanner range, warp probes, scan, and then warp the probes back out again.
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Bellac
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 09:58:00 -
[84]
After spending time crunching some numbers based on the spread sheet supplied what becomes most clear to me is the imbalance of it all. I am a maxed out covert/scanner pilot and I can be sitting in space in my covert ops and can be found quite easily by someone in a covert ops with sisters probes and launchers relatively easily.
Put me in anything bigger than a tech 1 cruiser and the searching pilot doesnt even need to be in a covert ops to find me easily. OK so CCP want to encourage player interaction and that is fair enough - but there has to be some way for a pilot in space to be hard enough to find that he can run a mission or mine and still have at least 50-50 chance of escape if probed. I dont want an easy life in low sec handed to me on a plate, but it should be very hard for a low skilled player in a cheap frigate to find a high skilled player in a covert ship. At this time it is not the case.
I am sure many players would spend more time in low sec if things were just balanced a little more away from the pirates.
|
Aus Dog
|
Posted - 2009.08.06 17:56:00 -
[85]
Could you boil it down to one sentence for us non perfectionists?
"Owning a dog teaches a child Honesty, Loyalty, and to always circle three times before lying down".....Mark Twain |
TYCONDEROGA
Amarr
The Inf1dels
IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2009.09.06 03:39:00 -
[86]
Originally by: alt 11
I wonder how many lowsec pirates have alts with "all level 5" probing skills and virtue sets though? I'd say not too damn many. You can probably be unprobable to 99% of halfassed mission gankers with less eccm, no? What would it take for an "all level 5" pilot sans virtue set to hit you?
/Raises Hand...
And alot of my pirate buddies have the exact same kind of alt.
|
foobarx
|
Posted - 2009.09.06 05:11:00 -
[87]
Originally by: alt 11
I wonder how many lowsec pirates have alts with "all level 5" probing skills and virtue sets though? I'd say not too damn many. You can probably be unprobable to 99% of halfassed mission gankers with less eccm, no? What would it take for an "all level 5" pilot sans virtue set to hit you?
The problem is you don't know if this particular pirate might be one of the perfect skill pirates.
I run missions in lowsec nearly every day and haven't been ganked in about 18 months. You really can keep yourself pretty safe with the directional scanner - open it up to max range and dock up if you see probes.
|
joxter
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2009.09.07 03:48:00 -
[88]
so, if I wanted to be hard to find in hisec while missioning (hide from salvagers) just place eccm 2's in all my Domi's mids?
[Dominix, Domi]
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Iron Charge L
350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Iron Charge L
350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Iron Charge L
350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Iron Charge L
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hammerhead II x5
This gives a ratio of 3.4, meaning that a probing salvager would have to have skill ratio below that to find me or just to get a warpable target? Would this even be a deterrent to salvagers or at least make them probe out an easier target?
(forgive nub questions, been playing a long time but as a diehard carebear have never given any thought to probes)
|
Lady Aja
Caldari
The Logistical Nightmare
Underworld Excavators
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Posted - 2009.09.07 16:28:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 23/07/2009 17:15:56
2. Example
A warfare-linked Claymore with max leadership skills & mindlink implant becomes totally immune to probes when fitting 2x ECCM II and targeted with 3x ECCM projector II. If the prober doesn't have an expensive Virtue set, or the pilot has Halo implants, it can drop one module and still be impossible to find
ok lets say what you claim is true on that one...
he is IMPOSSIBLE to probe down.. but his one mate using projected eccm ii's???
I upped my yearly income, Now up yours!
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ropnes
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Posted - 2009.10.13 22:57:00 -
[90]
I'm curious how much ECCM you need to fit for this to be effective
My Tengu has 205 sig and 35 sensor strength. I can make that close to 70% with an ECCM which I can actually afford to fit but I'm curious if it would make a difference.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2009.10.13 23:03:00 -
[91]
Originally by: ropnes
I'm curious how much ECCM you need to fit for this to be effective
My Tengu has 205 sig and 35 sensor strength. I can make that close to 70% with an ECCM which I can actually afford to fit but I'm curious if it would make a difference.
Did you check out the spreadsheet included in op? It pretty much exactly answers your question and any likely follow up question instead of forcing us to do the math for you over and over. ;)
Hell, it even explains how you do it yourself.
Parrots, commence!
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