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Why only one?

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Jade Mitch The New Guardians of Eden	Posted - 2009.07.16 17:42:00 - [1] I just created a new Caldari character and I really want him to start training some skills but I can't without pausing the skill training on my existing character. But why are these characters limiting each other when they are complete strangers in the Eve universe? It's not fun and it doesn't appear to fix any bugs or block any exploits. It's just a painful inconvenience. If I could sacrifice my third character slot for the freedom to train skills simultaneously on these two existing characters, I would. And I would be very happy with CCP for being so cool.
el caido School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.07.16 18:14:00 - [2] Money.
Paul Clavet Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.07.16 18:34:00 - [3] Also, I would like the newbie ship to be a T2-fitted battleship. /sarcasm Only having one character training on an account ensures specialization and scarcity of skillsets. If everyone could train three characters at once, everyone would have an awesome PVP pilot, a great carebear alt, and I dunno, maybe a titan pilot just for giggles. Won't happen, and shouldn't happen. You character's skills are precious because they represent the progress of your character in an account that you pay for. If you want more than one, you should roll more than one account. ---- Suddenly Ninjas Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
Jade Mitch The New Guardians of Eden	Posted - 2009.07.17 09:20:00 - [4] Edited by: Jade Mitch on 17/07/2009 09:25:27 Originally by: Paul Clavet Also, I would like the newbie ship to be a T2-fitted battleship. /sarcasm I hardly think I'm asking too much. Originally by: Paul Clavet Only having one character training on an account [encourages] specialization and scarcity of skillsets. No it doesn't, it discourages specialization and encourages mass training single characters, like me. Originally by: Paul Clavet If everyone could train three characters at once, everyone would have an awesome PVP pilot, a great carebear alt, and I dunno, maybe a titan pilot just for giggles. Yes, that's called specializing. And thank you for proving my previous point by directly contradicting you're previous argument. Originally by: Paul Clavet Won't happen, and shouldn't happen. It could happen, and I think it should. Originally by: Paul Clavet You character's skills are precious because they represent the progress of your character in an account that you pay for. Ya, and my account comes with room for three characters. So what's you're point? Originally by: Paul Clavet If you want more than one, you should roll more than one account. Then why bother having alts in the first place? The only reason I would pay for multiple accounts is if CCP limited all accounts to one character and reduced the monthly service fee per account to $4.99. Either way would be fine with me.
Nemiron Amarr Katsu Corporation	Posted - 2009.07.17 09:45:00 - [5] For one, you can't train / level more than one character in any (big) mmo at the same time. And, what is more important, CCP would lose money if they did allow multiple character training on one account. Why would they do that?
Cypherous Minmatar Liberty Rogues Rally Against Evil	Posted - 2009.07.17 10:08:00 - [6] Originally by: Jade Mitch Edited by: Jade Mitch on 17/07/2009 09:31:18 I just created a new Caldari character and I really want him to start training some skills but, I can't without pausing the skill training on this character. But why are these characters limiting each other in the first place when they are complete strangers in the Eve universe? Well, it's not fun and it doesn't appear to fix any bugs or block any exploits. It's just a painful inconvenience. If I could sacrifice my third character slot for the freedom to train my two remaining characters simultaneously, I would. And I would be very happy with CCP for being so totally awesome. So how many chars can you create on an account in WoW for example? How many can you level at the same time oh thats right 1, its the same near enough accross the board, only one can train.
Ovous	Posted - 2009.07.17 10:08:00 - [7] the reason i dont want to train more than one character is because eve is supposed to reflect a society at large,in a persistent world, later on if you get bored or want to try something else out, you have the option of other character slots, but you have to start from scratch, saving you from having to pay for another account to make another character. if you could make a miner, pvp char and a titan char for kicks, thats not specialising realy i think it was ment as a comment on everyone having a charcter they use for something, having one main character means there are consequence's for our actions a miner cant pvp, a pvp ship cannot mine, do you learn salvaging or get a new gun? choices that make our characters have well.. more character i pay for two accounts so i have a miner/industrialist as well as a minmitar combat pilot who salvages/scans it costs a lot, but for such an advantage? well its a fair trade of
Ydyp Ieva Caldari Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2009.07.17 10:10:00 - [8] So your one character advanced when not playing, and now you ask for 3 characters? In my eyes you ask a lot. Even if they give you what you want and not ruin their income. You got the character transfer market that would be declared void, why should you buy a character that is specialised in one branch like mining when you can just train one from the start together with one specialised in PvP and another one in PvE or science. And yes specialisation would still be there, but not the choice in what you specialize as you can do 3 specialisation in one go on one account. But no dispair, as much as rumours go they are planning to let you train multiple characters but with the penalty of only x% on training speed. ---------------------------------- None of yet!
Jade Mitch The New Guardians of Eden	Posted - 2009.07.17 11:44:00 - [9] Thanks Ovous and Ydyp Ieva for your great replies. I would agree with you both if alt's always spawned in the game as an inseparable team. Then you would have to allocate training time between the chars. But Eve is not like that. Alts are just as independent of each other as people in real life. They live in different places, follow different goals, and can either be friends or foes. I don't see why allowing them to train in parallel is even an issue.
Jint Hikaru Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2009.07.17 13:58:00 - [10] The game would become flooded with cookie cutter chars for sale. Every player who only really wanted one char would skill up the other two to sell as cyno alts or freighter alts and sell em. EVE is a game where you have consiqiuenses for your decisions. Sometimes these can be harsh, but thats what makes this game so interesting. If you want an alt on the same account, pause training on your main and skill up your alt. ------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------

Killiashandra Ree	Posted - 2009.07.17 15:37:00 - [11] Originally by: Cypherous Originally by: Jade Mitch Edited by: Jade Mitch on 17/07/2009 09:31:18 I just created a new Caldari character and I really want him to start training some skills but, I can't without pausing the skill training on this character. But why are these characters limiting each other in the first place when they are complete strangers in the Eve universe? Well, it's not fun and it doesn't appear to fix any bugs or block any exploits. It's just a painful inconvenience. If I could sacrifice my third character slot for the freedom to train my two remaining characters simultaneously, I would. And I would be very happy with CCP for being so totally awesome. So how many chars can you create on an account in WoW for example? How many can you level at the same time oh thats right 1, its the same near enough accross the board, only one can train. Apart from the minor point that wow chars can be raised to level cap in a matter of days, and an Eve char is lucky if it can fly a BS effectively in under 6 months. I'm pretty sure its just cynical money grabbing from CCP, I'm in a 200 man alliance, 4 people out of that whole alliance (me being one) have only one account, that and the removal of ghost training, would indicate CCP have no intention of making the other 2 slots in your account anything more useful than out-of -corp spies/scouts.
Marcus Gideon Gallente Federal Defense Operations	Posted - 2009.07.17 16:11:00 - [12] Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 17/07/2009 16:12:29 Plain and simple... People sell their characters for BILLIONS. If you could happily play away for months on your "main", while at the same time and under the same subscription be training a Titan pilot... you'd sacrifice nothing but the occasional swap to reset the Skill Queue, and in the end you'd trade them and make several Billion ISK. CCP wants money, just like any other business. If you want to make a shitload of ISK at their expense by cashing in an alt, then you have to pay them for the subscription first. The real question shouldn't be "Why only one?" It should be "Why even three?" Just make Jump Clones quicker, and no one will need a "Jita Alt" or a noobie "Scout".
Jade Mitch The New Guardians of Eden	Posted - 2009.07.18 00:12:00 - [13] Originally by: Jint Hikaru The game would become flooded with cookie cutter chars for sale. Every player who only really wanted one char would skill up the other two to sell as cyno alts or freighter alts and sell em. So what? Why would that be a problem? Originally by: Jint Hikaru EVE is a game where you have consiqiuenses for your decisions. Sometimes these can be harsh, but thats what makes this game so interesting. And the same would apply when you're training "cookie cutter" alts. Again, nothing wrong with that.
Jade Mitch The New Guardians of Eden	Posted - 2009.07.18 00:23:00 - [14] Originally by: Marcus Gideon Plain and simple... People sell their characters for BILLIONS. If you could happily play away for months on your "main", while at the same time and under the same subscription be training a Titan pilot... you'd sacrifice nothing but the occasional swap to reset the Skill Queue, and in the end you'd trade them and make several Billion ISK. Selling alts is not an issue. They only sell for billions right now because char training is limited and expensive. If you make it easier for everyone to do then you increase supplies and reduce prices. Originally by: Marcus Gideon CCP wants money, just like any other business. If you want to make a shitload of ISK at their expense by cashing in an alt, then you have to pay them for the subscription first. There's no such thing as making ISK at CCP's expense. Making ISK is fun and anything that's fun for players translates into revenue for CCP. Simple as that.
Koyama Ise Caldari Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon	Posted - 2009.07.18 03:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Jade Mitch Originally by: Marcus Gideon CCP wants money, just like any other business. If you want to make a **load of ISK at their expense by cashing in an alt, then you have to pay them for the subscription first. There's no such thing as making ISK at CCP's expense. Making ISK is fun and anything that's fun for players translates into revenue for CCP**. Simple as that. Not really. There are plenty of people with two accounts. They pay about $40 a month. People with one account pay about $20 a month. Add this they will pay the $20 to have their character moved to one account. Then they will only pay $20 a month and not lose anything important. Thus, increase in characters decrease in revenue. And since more active characters requires more infrastructure to maintain, servers, bandwidth, etcetera, it means that the cost of maintaining the servers goes up as people start using two characters. If we take these two, they actually make each other worse. Because not only do we have less revenue because of decreasing number of accounts, we also have increasing expenses because of additional server load. If you still cannot see how this idea is not feasible, IÆm afraid no one can help you. --- Koyama Ise, Applying logic in areas where it is logical to do so.
Onys Cissalc	Posted - 2009.07.18 05:00:00 - [16] Edited by: Onys Cissalc on 18/07/2009 05:02:25 As a 'human' you are given a license to create two more 'alternate-yous', per 'account'. You're only licensed to accrue knowledge outside of the confines of the Center for Advanced Studies' graduate halls for one of your 'alternate-yous' at any given time. Besides - it helps curb excessive character farming. edit Oh yeah, and the slots are, among other uses, there for you to buy a character from another player and have the character transferred to an open slot on your account. Got your hardcore titan pilot that you've been playing with for years, but don't want to be stuck in your titan at all times? Buy/train a character that can be in the titan for you when you're not using it! Yay!
Jade Mitch Gallente The New Guardians of Eden Lux Caelestia	Posted - 2009.07.18 12:10:00 - [17] Edited by: Jade Mitch on 18/07/2009 12:17:28 Originally by: Koyama Ise There are plenty of people with two accounts. They pay about $40 a month. People with one account pay about $20 a month. Add this they will pay the $20 to have their character moved to one account. Account billing limits CCP to one charge per moneth per account but character transfers can happen any number of times a month. If CCP wants to increase revenue and get a handle on character trading in and outside the game, this is the way to do it. Originally by: Onys Cissalc Besides - it helps curb excessive character farming. The free market curbs all excesses by itself. It's doesn't need forceful intervention. The more CCP tries to limit it's players, the more it limits itself. -------------------------------- Can't we all just be reasonable?
Onys Cissalc	Posted - 2009.07.18 12:53:00 - [18] You can only play on one character per account. But now, let's say you've been playing for two years. You've thus paid CCP $1524, or $360. However, you've been training two more characters for 18 of those 24 months, since you'd by that time figured out that you wanted alts you'd be able to use at the same time as your main by then. Come the end of your 24 months, you transfer the characters off to two new accounts at $20/each, or $40. Now you have one 'fully trained' and two 'three quarters trained' characters that you can all use at once. Those two characters would have amounted to 21518, or $540. That's the cost of 2.5x accounts over the period of 24 months, where you've only been paying a 1.0x rate. At the end of the day, CCP understands that there are players that have been playing for a long time now that eventually want to get that already-trained alt, without having to wait to train one up, so they have the character transfer function. They also understand that not everyone wants to keep the alts they've had for the past few years, and that they wish to sell them - not to mention those that are in the character trading 'business'. So ultimately, it's a fine balancing act of them being able to make the most of subscriptions while leaving the responsibility of 'account management' with the players. If you REALLY want to 'train' those other two characters that much, just go spend a bit of time grinding up the isk and buy* the SP. You can only 'train' one character per account for all other MMOs. At most another two character slots per account would be nice, but full-speed training on different accounts? No thanks.
Koyama Ise Caldari Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon	Posted - 2009.07.18 13:56:00 - [19] Originally by: Jade Mitch Originally by: Koyama Ise There are plenty of people with two accounts. They pay about $40 a month. People with one account pay about $20 a month. Add this they will pay the $20 to have their character moved to one account. Not in all cases. If you have two accounts, you have room for six alts but you can only train two alts at a time. Adding this would allow you to train all six at once! Why would you then consolidate your chars into one account? That makes no sense. After reading this I have concluded, please do not feed the troll. Reasons for preceding conclusion: Use of incorrect logic û If a person has 6 characters they want to train at once they would use two or three accounts depending if you can train two or three characters on account. This still holds the example as you can train twice as many characters for no increase in price. Inability to grasp simple concepts û With the above points it should be obvious that revenue lowers as opposed to increasing. Character transfers are rare for an individual character and it takes more than a month to create sell worthy characters. Use of role-play in an inappropriate situation û ôBut why are these characters limiting each other in the first place when they are complete strangers in the Eve universe?ö this argument is not appropriate for something that is not role-play, accounts. This is strictly monetary related. Posting highly opposed/controversial topics û Training multiple characters on one account. Some might say IÆm using this to attack you personally, however when you use infallible reasoning on a valid example, itÆs hard to believe otherwise. --- Koyama Ise, Applying logic in areas where it is logical to do so.
Jade Mitch Gallente The New Guardians of Eden Lux Caelestia	Posted - 2009.07.18 15:10:00 - [20] Originally by: Onys Cissalc You can only play on one character per account. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the inability of train more than once character at a time per account. Originally by: Onys Cissalc But now, let's say you've been playing for two years. You've thus paid CCP $1524, or $360. However, you've been training two more characters for 18 of those 24 months, since you'd by that time figured out that you wanted alts you'd be able to use at the same time as your main by then. You mean while training them at the same time? Okay... Originally by:* Onys Cissalc Come the end of your 24 months, you transfer the characters off to two new accounts at $20/each, or $40. Don't forget to include the subscription fees for the two new accounts. 152 would be another $30 a month on top of the $15 I'm already paying. That would be another $70 on the 25 month and $45 a month thereafter. Okay... Originally by:* Onys Cissalc Now you have one 'fully trained' and two 'three quarters trained' characters that you can all use at once. What? No way. It takes something like 30 or 40 years to 'fully train' a character. Roughly 5 years to 'three quarter' train a character. 24 months is nothing. Originally by: Onys Cissalc Those two characters would have amounted to 21518, or $540. That's the cost of [2 accounts over the period of 18 months], where you've only been paying a 1x rate. Same as the cost for 27 character transfers, or 1.125 character transfers per month. With all the money that players with three accounts would save from subscription fees, do you honestly believe they would trade less than 1 character a month on average? If the transfer fee were cut in half, do you honestly believe they would trade less than 2.25 characters a month on average? Originally by: Onys Cissalc You can only 'train' one character per account for all other MMOs. Never compare Eve to other MMOs, ok. -------------------------------- Can't we all just be reasonable?

MacMasters	Posted - 2009.07.18 15:29:00 - [21] this failogic is more likely to result in 1 char per account than 3 chars skilling per account. relax and accept it
Onys Cissalc	Posted - 2009.07.19 02:04:00 - [22] Originally by: "Koyama Ise" Some might say IÆm using this to attack you personally, however when you use flawed reasoning on a valid example, itÆs hard to believe otherwise. Fixed that for you. Originally by: "Jade Mitch" Ok but don't forget to include the subscription fees for the two new accounts. That's another $30 a month on top of the $15 I'm already paying so, $15+$30+$40 is $85 on the 25th month and $45 a month thereafter. The extra $30 from using non PLEX/GTC methods to subscribe the account only means that they have now lost $510 instead of $540. Your reference to the milk bottles is also flawed. People have limits as to how much they can or want to consume of a single product at once - in EVE's case, you can only consume a portion of your product at a time, unless you purchase a second copy to consume both at once. What would the benefit be to you of training multiple characters at once instead of buying someone's now-useless alt and having it transferred to your account? You can only use one at a time anyway. To return to the 24 months and 18 months example, keep another thing in mind. For those 18 months that you had your two alt accounts active, you were able to use all three characters at once. That isn't possible with your training example and requires relogging to get onto the other character to go and do something different on it. The most common use I can see for people wanting to train extra characters is to be able to use them in another race's ships at the same time as their 'main' - you can't do this while the characters are on the same account - but that doesn't matter to you, because you're perfectly happy to not pay for that character for those 18 months then pay $20 to have it transferred to a new account. Here CCP has lost out on $270 worth of subs for that character and someone else now has an unused and rotting alt that precious few people need to buy, since everyone has long since been training characters in their other slots anyway. The reasons are multiple as to why we can't train multiple characters at full speed on a single account at once. They range from player based trade to a loss of revenue and increase in server side maintenance for CCP. It would be in your best interests to first study the underlying concepts before making a suggestion for change. Where you start off your thread with "I want this changed, this is why" and give poor reasoning for the 'why' component, people are going to shoot you down. Originally by: "Jade Mitch" Well, it's not fun and it doesn't appear to fix any bugs or block any exploits. It's just a painful inconvenience. These kinds of statements for this kind of topic don't help your argument at all...


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