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Theocidic
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Posted - 2009.07.21 04:15:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Theocidic on 21/07/2009 04:19:14
Edited by: Theocidic on 21/07/2009 04:16:31
This is how I look at the different races ships...
-Caldari are fine, they specialize in EWAR for PvP, they make great tacklers and Electronic Attack Ships. Think of them as the mage class.
-Amarr are the best tanks and make good use of dreads and tank BS. Their setback is they are predictable because they almost always use lasers/armor tank. Think of them as the warrior class.
-Gallente are best using drones but also hold their own as tanks and make the best carriers or motherships. Think of them as warlocks with good armor.
-Minmatar are the most dexterous and make great use of dps battleships. They are best suited with fighting from afar or using hit and run tactics. Think of them as the ranger class.
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Zaphod Beeblebrox42
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Posted - 2009.07.21 08:23:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Theocidic
Edited by: Theocidic on 21/07/2009 04:19:14
Edited by: Theocidic on 21/07/2009 04:16:31
This is how I look at the different races ships...
-Caldari are fine, they specialize in EWAR for PvP, they make great tacklers and Electronic Attack Ships. Think of them as the mage class.
-Amarr are the best tanks and make good use of dreads and tank BS. Their setback is they are predictable because they almost always use lasers/armor tank. Think of them as the warrior class.
-Gallente are best using drones but also hold their own as tanks and make the best carriers or motherships. Think of them as warlocks with good armor.
-Minmatar are the most dexterous and make great use of dps battleships. They are best suited with fighting from afar or using hit and run tactics. Think of them as the ranger class.
Or we can not look at Eve like it's some elf and orc fantasy rpg and recognize that every race has ships that fall into multiple categories. This comparison/breakdown really is fail. Every race has good dogfighters and good snipers. Each has their own good tanks and ewar. Essentially every race has a ship able to fill the same role of one in another race just in a slightly different way.
__________________
Look, a forum alt! |
Irida Mershkov
Gallente
War is Bliss
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Posted - 2009.07.21 11:12:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
Troll rating: 0/10
This is a terrible troll effort, for two reasons:
1) The whole "Caldari suck at PvP" thing is way overdone. It's not 2006 anymore.
2) There's already a "Caldari suck at PvP" whine thread on the first page. It's generally best to troll with something different, not just spam the same old topics over and over again.
It worked well with a lot of Falcon threads, at least he tried I guess. **** try but at least he tried.
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.21 12:23:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Yakia TovilToba on 21/07/2009 12:25:21
wrong button
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Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.07.21 15:54:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz
And please, someone link me to one of those KillMails that show Falcons owning everything they come up against.
Been waiting... still havn't seen one posted
Pick Three:
Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.07.21 16:13:00 -
[36]
There are some terrible Caldari ships.
The hawk is the worst AF. Part of that is due to rockets sucking, but a hawk does less damage than the T1 equivalent, a Kestrel.
The caldari rail boats (moa, Ferox) tend to suffer from lack of PG. Nighthawk has an absurd lack of PG.
The crow isn't as good a combat interceptor as the taranis or crusader.
The shining star of the sucky caldari ships, however, is the Raptor. Hands down the worst interceptor. Has no where near enough powergrid.
But the Caldari also have some pretty decent ships for PvP. All their ECM boats are great. Rokh is good too.
Sure long range missile ravens and caracals aren't great, but you do have options if you fly caldari.
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Jack Forge
Gallente
Wolverine Solutions
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Posted - 2009.07.21 16:38:00 -
[37]
learn to fly the ships before getting some cheese for that
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Stupid is as stupid does... |
jhon whang
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Posted - 2009.07.21 18:53:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Hurtado Soneka
Originally by: VanNostrum
prove the retribution isn't just a horrible tackler
??? Its Khanid its one of the sexiest ships around, and itself isnt broken but its primary weapon class.
What do you want everything?
The raptor is completely without merit
Retribution is Carthum, Vengeance is the khanid variety which sports 3 mids to the Retribution's 1. The retribution is NOT a tackler, period.
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Corduroy Rab
Chaos Reborn
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Posted - 2009.07.21 19:32:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz
And please, someone link me to one of those KillMails that show Falcons owning everything they come up against.
Been waiting... still havn't seen one posted
Not that the exception proves anything but here is one for you Linkage
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.07.21 20:22:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz
And please, someone link me to one of those KillMails that show Falcons owning everything they come up against.
Been waiting... still havn't seen one posted
And you won't find any. Because Falcons have always been worthless for PVP. No-one has ever used them in small-gang combat. They were, and are, useless. There were not dozens of whine threads about them.
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Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.07.22 10:26:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Theocidic
Edited by: Theocidic on 21/07/2009 04:19:14
Edited by: Theocidic on 21/07/2009 04:16:31
This is how I look at the different races ships...
-Caldari are fine, they specialize in EWAR for PvP, they make great tacklers and Electronic Attack Ships. Think of them as the mage class.
-Amarr are the best tanks and make good use of dreads and tank BS. Their setback is they are predictable because they almost always use lasers/armor tank. Think of them as the warrior class.
-Gallente are best using drones but also hold their own as tanks and make the best carriers or motherships. Think of them as warlocks with good armor.
-Minmatar are the most dexterous and make great use of dps battleships. They are best suited with fighting from afar or using hit and run tactics. Think of them as the ranger class.
WoW reference 0/10
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Hoo Is
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Posted - 2009.07.22 13:52:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Corduroy Rab
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz
And please, someone link me to one of those KillMails that show Falcons owning everything they come up against.
Been waiting... still havn't seen one posted
Not that the exception proves anything but here is one for you Linkage
That is a Frickin AWESOME kill there.
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Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2009.07.22 14:19:00 -
[43]
I have a Caldari PvP pilot that is exclusively Caldari. Right now he only flies frigates. I have realized that the old saying is true: Quote:
Caldari, PvP, Solo. Pick two.
The Merlin is passable for solo PvP I suppose - I blow up a lot, but maybe I'm doing it wrong (cap boost active tank fit).
However, when there is a gang going, I am always welcome. Even if there is a 'cruiser-only' or 'hac-only' gang going on, they want me to come along in my Griffin or my Kitsune. ECM is fantastic.
I'm sure that when I move into cruiser-class ships I'll have some better solo PvP options (Caracal and Moa), but still, Caldari work best with gangs. It's nice warping in on some targets and completely removing them from a fight. I don't need to do damage to be effective, and my gang mates love me because they blow up a lot less.
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Neacail
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Posted - 2009.07.22 14:29:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Hoo Is
Originally by: Corduroy Rab
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz
And please, someone link me to one of those KillMails that show Falcons owning everything they come up against.
Been waiting... still havn't seen one posted
Not that the exception proves anything but here is one for you Linkage
That is a Frickin AWESOME kill there.
Indeed. Some people like the Blaster Arazu, or the Pulse Pilgrim, but the Blaster Falcon has got them both beat by a long mile.
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Atropos Kahn
Caldari
Solarflare Heavy Industries
Kahora Catori
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Posted - 2009.07.22 15:25:00 -
[45]
If you are serious about crosstraining. Caldari / Mimnatar are a good mix... Your shield tanking skills will cross over to a lot of the minmatar ships. Pick up some projectile skill books and you are instant mimnatar pvp'r
Galente and Amarr are armor tanking boats, so you would have to bring up your armor skills and understand all that armor tanking mumbo jumbo.
My 2 cents.
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Dasalt Istgut
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Posted - 2009.07.22 16:29:00 -
[46]
Hmm Caldari, Caldari...
Well, here's the scoop :
T1 Frigs - These all pretty much suck. The merlin is 'Ok', I'd still rather have a rifter or punisher though.
T2 Frigs - Crow is actually pretty fail these days. Harpy is good. Hawk is fail. Manticore is fail. Etc.
Destroyer - Cormorant isn't as bad as a coercer. Its not a terrible PVP ship.
Cruisers - Blackbird is great for what it costs. Moa really, really sucks. You can hang out with sniper hacs but you'll do negligable damage. AML Caracal is ok, Navy Caracal nano'd is Ok. HML Caracal is very weak to be honest - nice alpha but too little damage and too slow.
T2 cruisers - Basilisk is good. Onyx is good. Eagle is good only for the fact that it can hit out to 100km like other sniper HAC's with a much better buffer than they will have (Sniper HAC gangs usually can't hit out to 150km+, so the eagle's range bonus really just boils down to not requiring tracking computers/enhancers to hit at range and therefore being able to field LSE's in the mids, which works nicely with the resists). I can get an eagle hitting to 110km with over 40k EHP. It hits weaker than my Deimos but has 3x the tank. Cerberus is good, just wish it was a little faster. Rook is good, falcon less good but still usable.
BC's - Drake is awesome. Ferox is well, sorta crappy. Vulture is ok with gang links, Nighthawk is a PVE only boat.
BS's - Scorpion/Raven - both suck due to shield tanks. Rokh shield tanks but its saving grace is the DD tankability in a sniper setup. Can hit out with the other sniper BS and also absorb a DD or two.
They're honestly not terrible - they don't have many (any) real solo ships though aside from possibly the rook and harpy. When I compare it to the Gallente lineup who have Arazu, Lachesis, Ishkur, Ishtar, Deimos, Brutix, Myrm, Mega, Domi, Astarte, Taranis, Thorax, Vexor, etc which are all very sexy solo boats - or Minmatar who have Sleiphnir, Vagabond, Rapier, Huginn, Wolf, Jaguar, Stiletto, etc...They're certainly not as good.
At the moment I'd say the best all around race is probably Gallente, followed closely by Amarr (who have hands down the best BS lineup). Minmatar is better for my playstyle than Caldari, Caldari has some ships that do well in their niche (eagle being a good example).
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Laou Tzu
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Posted - 2009.07.22 18:20:00 -
[47]
in our group we dont allow caldari ship because of poor quality. never seen a drake that is worth flying they can easily be taken down by assault frigates and cruisers
i lol at your noob group, caldari is just fine for pvp if the player flying the ships are good, there are no evidence other then noobs with crap fits that speak bad for caldari.
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Zidious
Caldari
Demon Theory
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.07.22 20:49:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kenny Kinkoid
since its a proven fact caldari ships cannot be used for pvp what options
are there? what is best race to crosstrain to get good pvp ships?
1. Learn to fly
2. Train your skills
3. Fit your shiny minny/amaar/galente ship and die when you run into a good cerb solo.
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Darthewok
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.23 03:48:00 -
[49]
what race should you fly? caldari or other?
depends on whether you enjoy playing the style of combat Caldari has or the style of combat another race has.
Like or can learn to appreciate ECM (wreaks havoc among the opposing team) and long range sniping? stay with Caldari
Like guerrilla lightning strikes and the ability to run away when the situation goes bad? train Minmatar
Like being able to shoot accurately and do a lot of damage with guns that need little ammo? train Amarr
Like to be versatile with different drones that can attack different sizes of ships and do different things? train Gallente
each race has a viable niche in PVP, just train the niche you enjoy.
or the race with the most ships you dream of flying.
after all you're playing EVE for the fun of it right?
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inyreye
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.07.23 20:20:00 -
[50]
Edited by: inyreye on 23/07/2009 20:21:50
Personally I prefer amarr for BS class for their armor tank, dps, and good range.
For cruiser and frigates, minmatar and gallente both have great solo and gang ships.
If you train caldari just for e-war I dont think you'd enjoy it much, since you would be primaried just about every fight.
But a gang of rokhs or ravens with a few logistics would HURT!  |
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Sir Ibex
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Posted - 2009.07.30 01:51:00 -
[51]
Hey guys.
I see this caldari "issue" popping out on forums all the time and every time I hear two things:
one side says caldari sucks in PvP, and the other side says they don't, giving certain caldari ships as an example. But see.. Here's the problem:
1)When defending caladari PvP many people mention gang PvP. BUT WHAT ABOUT SOLO PvP? Can you name as many caldari ships that are good for solo PvP as there are for other races?
2)Many people mention Drake, Cerberus, Falcon as awesome PvP ships.. Well... Did someone say 30 million isk a pop for a Drake? 130+ million for Cerberus? More or less for Falcon? Sorry, by far not everyone is ready to spend this amount every time their ship explodes. But what about CHEAPER options that would be very capable for solo PvP? Sadly, there are none or very few... Why should a caldari player have to train/wait for ages for t2 ships to be capable in PvP, when other races can be fairly capable even with very low tier ships? Do caldari have anything to EASILY match a Rifter/Stabber/Thorax/Vexor in the same class 1 on 1?
3)Missiles... On one hand they are a blessing, on the other hand, they are a problem. When using guns/cannons any of the other races can cross train into a different race and still benefit from gun skills because there are just so many gun/cannon ships in the game. But what of missile boats? There are quite a few, yes, but are there just as many as there are gun ships? HELL NO. On top of all that, missile ship offerings from other races are often mediocre. Just take that crappy amarr command ship for example... Good for tanking? Maybe. good for offence? Nah...
4)A player who has been using something like a tempest or a hyperion for misisons/ratting can start doing solo PvP because he already has gun skills trained, and there are many gun ships out there. A player who has been using a Raven, will have a difficult time getting into PvP because there are limited choices when it comes to solo PvP capable missile boats.
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.07.30 04:22:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Sera Ryskin on 30/07/2009 04:23:51
Originally by: Sir Ibex
1)When defending caladari PvP many people mention gang PvP. BUT WHAT ABOUT SOLO PvP? Can you name as many caldari ships that are good for solo PvP as there are for other races?
If you want a solo PvP ship, then why didn't you train one of the solo PvP races? Don't whine to CCP because you're too stupid to pick the right ship to train for.
Quote:
2)Many people mention Drake, Cerberus, Falcon as awesome PvP ships.. Well... Did someone say 30 million isk a pop for a Drake? 130+ million for Cerberus? More or less for Falcon? Sorry, by far not everyone is ready to spend this amount every time their ship explodes. But what about CHEAPER options that would be very capable for solo PvP? Sadly, there are none or very few... Why should a caldari player have to train/wait for ages for t2 ships to be capable in PvP, when other races can be fairly capable even with very low tier ships? Do caldari have anything to EASILY match a Rifter/Stabber/Thorax/Vexor in the same class 1 on 1?
EVERYONE has to pay those prices, get over it. T1 cruisers and frigates are trash, not "fairly capable", which means the cheapest ship you're going to be using is a battlecruiser. And guess what: all of them are the same price.
PS: Caldari get the Blackbird, the only T1 cruiser that is welcome in PvP gangs, so in fact you have the cheapest way to get into PvP.
And again with this pointless whine about solo PvP. It's not CCP's fault you trained for fleet ships instead of solo ships.
Quote:
3)Missiles... On one hand they are a blessing, on the other hand, they are a problem. When using guns/cannons any of the other races can cross train into a different race and still benefit from gun skills because there are just so many gun/cannon ships in the game. But what of missile boats? There are quite a few, yes, but are there just as many as there are gun ships? HELL NO. On top of all that, missile ship offerings from other races are often mediocre. Just take that crappy amarr command ship for example... Good for tanking? Maybe. good for offence? Nah...
And missiles require less SP (since you don't have to train the smaller T2 missiles to get the larger ones), so it balances out. The big time sink is T2 weapons, and since T2 guns are mandatory if you want to do anything at all useful in PvP, the skillpoint balance is much less uneven than you seem to think.
Quote:
4)A player who has been using something like a tempest or a hyperion for misisons/ratting can start doing solo PvP because he already has gun skills trained, and there are many gun ships out there. A player who has been using a Raven, will have a difficult time getting into PvP because there are limited choices when it comes to solo PvP capable missile boats.
If you stop whining about your inability to figure out what ships to train for and try to use Caldari ships as they are meant to be used, you would realize that the Raven is an incredibly powerful PvP ship that allows you to go straight from missions to pwning people in PvP.
PS: if you think it's bad going into PvP with Caldari ships, try going into PvE with a Hyperion or Tempest. "Hilarious failure" is a pretty good description of the results.
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Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Schalac
Caldari
Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2009.07.30 06:40:00 -
[53]
Why all the hate on rockets? The rocket Hawk is great for killing other AFs, frigs and intys since the need for speed update. Maybe you just need to quit cheapening out on your missile skills and take the support skills to 5. I like the Hawk, it's actually a badass ship for pvp. Just stay away from anyone in a cruiser fitting small guns and those nasty frog drone carrying AFs and you should be fine.
SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN |
Robert0288
Caldari
g guild
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.07.30 06:51:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
Stuff...
I think that posts summs up everything nicely
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Schalac
Caldari
Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2009.07.30 09:10:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Robert0288
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
Stuff...
I think that posts summs up everything nicely
Caldari can solo PvP just fine. I'll pit my Raven against any other races BS and I bet you I will either kill them or they will run. I'll pit my Hawk against 90% of the other AFs out there and I bet you I will kill them or they will run. I'll pit my Drake against 90% of the other BC out there and I bet I will kill them or they will run. I'll pit my Ferox against 50% of the other BC that are out there and they will run. I'll pit my Caracal against anything T1 cruiser sized and I bet you I will win or they will run. Caldari are not slacking on the PvP skills. The pilots might be but the race is fine as is.
SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN |
Suas
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.07.30 09:21:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Schalac
Originally by: Robert0288
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
Stuff...
I think that posts summs up everything nicely
Caldari can solo PvP just fine. I'll pit my Raven against any other races BS and I bet you I will either kill them or they will run. I'll pit my Hawk against 90% of the other AFs out there and I bet you I will kill them or they will run. I'll pit my Drake against 90% of the other BC out there and I bet I will kill them or they will run. I'll pit my Ferox against 50% of the other BC that are out there and they will run. I'll pit my Caracal against anything T1 cruiser sized and I bet you I will win or they will run. Caldari are not slacking on the PvP skills. The pilots might be but the race is fine as is.
...
Caldari are good, but you're overdoing it. Hawk & Caracal, really? :|
Sigh.
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Tereliss Verr
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Posted - 2009.07.30 10:12:00 -
[57]
Guys Guys Guys oh and Ladies, sorry!!
Why are you rising to his bait, just hunt it down and kill it that's the only way you will get through to this obvious Troll!!!
Just my opinion 
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Schalac
Caldari
Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2009.07.30 10:42:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Suas
Originally by: Schalac
Originally by: Robert0288
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
Stuff...
I think that posts summs up everything nicely
Caldari can solo PvP just fine. I'll pit my Raven against any other races BS and I bet you I will either kill them or they will run. I'll pit my Hawk against 90% of the other AFs out there and I bet you I will kill them or they will run. I'll pit my Drake against 90% of the other BC out there and I bet I will kill them or they will run. I'll pit my Ferox against 50% of the other BC that are out there and they will run. I'll pit my Caracal against anything T1 cruiser sized and I bet you I will win or they will run. Caldari are not slacking on the PvP skills. The pilots might be but the race is fine as is.
...
Caldari are good, but you're overdoing it. Hawk & Caracal, really? :|
Sigh.
Yes Hawk and Caracal. Just because 99% of the pilots you meet flying these ships are level 4 skill maxxer state war corp members doesn't mean the ships suck. A HAM caracal against a blasterrax is a great fight that could go either way. And the Hawk really is a an awesome ship once you train relevant skills to 5, and I have taken out T2 ships in a Merlin with very little problems and some of the times I was using regular T1 ammo across the board. Remember kids it's not what you fly but how you fly it that counts. I love Caldari, I think they rock, and trained to make the best of it. I am saddened though by the fact I'll never get to field a State Issue Raven.
SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN |
Suas
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.07.30 11:24:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Schalac
Yes Hawk and Caracal. Just because 99% of the pilots you meet flying these ships are level 4 skill maxxer state war corp members doesn't mean the ships suck. A HAM caracal against a blasterrax is a great fight that could go either way. And the Hawk really is a an awesome ship once you train relevant skills to 5, and I have taken out T2 ships in a Merlin with very little problems and some of the times I was using regular T1 ammo across the board. Remember kids it's not what you fly but how you fly it that counts. I love Caldari, I think they rock, and trained to make the best of it. I am saddened though by the fact I'll never get to field a State Issue Raven.
Yeah, because with all that PG that the Caracal has you will have such an impressive buffer and such great DPS.
Wait, no you won't - you're dumb. You do less DPS than a Rupture with a smaller buffer. Caracal is not good for Cruiser 1on1s - it's good for baiting idiots in AFs / Inties and perhaps for HML sniping.
Also, Hawk is horribad, stop kidding yourself.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.07.30 11:39:00 -
[60]
Comparing EFT DPS isn't helpful, because of the Caracal's massive range advantage - and superior agility and comparable speed to a typical plated cruiser. Having said that, here's the HAM Caraclol:
[Caracal, HAM copy 1]
Reactor Control Unit II
Reactor Control Unit II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Invulnerability Field II
5x HAM II
Warrior II x2
2 RCU IIs. Heh. It'll fit with 2 BCS only if you drop to AB and MSE. But there's no bloody way I'm not fitting a MWD on a Caracal. You can do interesting stuff with TDs but it still leave you horribly vulnerable to drones. Dropping the MWD LSE fit to HMs means you have to replace an RCU with a copro.
The only way to get a sensible fit with MWD and LSE is with AMLs. Ironically, because you now have room for dual BCS with AMLs, your actual DPS vs cruisers with AMLs ends up pretty much the same as the eDPS with HMs or HAMs and no BCS.
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