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Offensive Warfare Links and Battle Command Ships

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Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.07.18 15:11:00 - [1] So I came to realize that all warfare links are mostly defensive in effect and there's nothing to increase the damage output or application of your gangs. Add to that the current lack of T2 tier 2 Battlecruisers and we have get everything we need: Offensive Warfare Links and Battle Command Ships. All numbers are just drafts and subject to balancing. They're just there to give you a hint of what I'm going after. Implants: Same as the current Mindlink implants. Gunnery Warfare Links Gunnery Warfare Link - Marksmanship Increases optimal and falloff ranges of the gang's turrets 1.2% optimal command bonus 1.2% falloff command bonus Gunnery Warfare Link - Surgical Strike Increases the damage modifier of the gang's turrets 1.5% damage command bonus Gunnery Warfare Link - Target Navigation Analysis Increases the tracking of the gang's turrets 2% tracking command bonus Missile Warfare Links Missile Warfare Link - Long Distance Bombardment Increases flight time of the gang's missiles and bombs 2% flight time command bonus Missile Warfare Link - Saturation Bombing Increases the rate of fire of the gang's missile launchers and the damage of the gang's bombs 1.5% RoF command Bonus 2% bomb damage command bonus Missile Warfare Link - Precision Bombing Increases explosion velocity of the gang's missiles and bombs 2% explosion velocity command bonus Agile Warfare Links Agile Warfare Link - Battlefield Scope Increases optimal and falloff of the gang's turrets, flight time of the gang's missiles and control range of the gang's drones 0.5% optimal command bonus 0.5% falloff command bonus 0.75% flight time command bonus 0.75% control range command bonus Agile Warfare Link - Decisive Strike Increases the damage of the gang's turrets, missiles and drones 0.75% turret damage command bonus 0.75% missile damage command bonus 0.75% drone damage command bonus Agile Warfare Link - Weapon Precision Increases the tracking of the gangs turrets and drones and explosion radius of the gang's guided and unguided missiles 0.75% turret tracking command bonus 0.75% drone tracking command bonus 0.5% explosion radius command bonus Drone Warfare Links Drone Warfare Link - Roaming Augmentation Increases the speed and control range of the gang's drones 2% speed command bonus 2% control range command bonus Drone Warfare Link - Precision Enhancement Increases the optimal range and tracking of the gang's drones 1.5% optimal range command bonus 1.5% tracking command bonus Drone Warfare Link - Target Structure Analysis Increases the damage of the gang's drones 1.5% damage command bonus -------- Ideas for: Mining
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.07.18 15:13:00 - [2] Amarr Battle Command Ships Name: Redemption Hull:Harbinger Role: Assault Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Slots: 8 H , 4 M , 7 L Hardpoints: 8 Turret , 0 Launcher Drones: 25m¦ / 25 Mbit/sec Battlecruiser skill bonus: 10% reduction in laser capacitor need and 5% bonus to laser damage per level. Command Ship skill bonus: 7.5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret optimal range and 5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret rate of fire per level. Role bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need. Name: Theurg Hull:Harbinger Role: Tactical Command Ship Developer: Viziam Slots: 8 H , 5 M , 7 L Hardpoints: 6 Turret , 0 Launcher Drones: 50m¦ / 50 Mbit/sec Battlecruiser skill bonus: 10% reduction in laser capacitor need and 5% bonus to laser damage per level. Command Ship skill bonus: 10% bonus to armor hitpoints and 3% bonus to effectiveness of Gunnery Warfare Links per level. Role bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously. Caldari Battle Command ships Name: Garuda Hull:Drake Role: Assault Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota Slots: 8 H , 6 M , 5 L Hardpoints: 0 Turret , 8 Launcher Drones: 25m¦ / 25 Mbit/sec Battlecruiser skill bonus: 5% shield resistance and 5% bonus to assault missile, heavy assault missile and heavy missile launcher rate of fire per level. Command Ship skill bonus: 10% bonus to Missile velocity and 5% bonus to heavy missile explosion velocity per level. Role bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need. Name: Naga Hull:Drake Role: Tactical Command Ship Developer: Lai Dai Slots: 8 H , 7 M , 4 L Hardpoints: 0 Turret , 6 Launcher Drones: 25m¦ / 25 Mbit/sec Battlecruiser skill bonus: 5% shield resistance and 5% bonus kinetic damage of heavy missiles and heavy assault missiles. Command Ship skill bonus: 10% bonus to Shield capacity and 3% bonus to effectiveness of Missile Warfare Links per level. Role bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.07.18 15:14:00 - [3] Minmatar Battle Command ships Name: Fafnir Hull:Hurricane Role: Assault Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creation Slots: 8 H , 4 M , 7 L Hardpoints: 6 Turret , 4 Launcher Drones: 75m¦ / 50 Mbit/sec Battlecruiser skill bonus: 5% increase in projectile weapons damage and Rate of Fire per level. Command Ship skill bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff and 7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret tracking speed per skill level. Role bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need. Name: Lochaber Hull:Hurricane Role: Tactical Command Ship Developer: Thukker Mix Slots: 8 H , 5 M , 6 L Hardpoints: 6 Turret , 3 Launcher Drones: 50m¦ / 25 Mbit/sec Battlecruiser skill bonus: 5% increase in projectile weapons damage and Rate of Fire per level. Command Ship skill bonus: 5% bonus to max velocity and 3% bonus to effectiveness of Agile Warfare Links per level. Role bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously. Gallente Battle Command ships Name: Apate Hull:Myrmidon Role: Assault Command Ship Developer: CreoDron Slots: 6 H , 5 M , 7 L Hardpoints: Turret , Launcher Drones: 225m¦ / 125 Mbit/sec Battlecruiser skill bonus: 10% increase to drone hitpoints and damage dealt by drones, and 7.5% increase to armor repair amount per level. Command Ship skill bonus: +5 km bonus to Drone operation range and 7.5% bonus to drone optimal range and tracking per level. Role bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need. Name: Hekate Hull:Myrmidon Role: Tactical Command Ship Developer: Rhoden Shipyards Slots: 6 H , 6 M , 6 L Hardpoints: 4 Turret , 4 Launcher Drones: 175m¦ / 75 Mbit/sec Battlecruiser skill bonus: 10% increase to drone hitpoints and damage dealt by drones, and 7.5% increase to armor repair amount per level. Command Ship skill bonus: 10% increase to electronic warfare strength and logistic drones transfer amount and 3% bonus to effectiveness of Drone Warfare Links per level. Role bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously. -------- Ideas for: Mining
MacMasters	Posted - 2009.07.18 15:26:00 - [4] Edited by: MacMasters on 18/07/2009 15:26:59 Originally by: Abrazzar So I came to realize that all warfare links are mostly defensive in effect and there's nothing to increase the damage output or application of your gangs. Add to that the current lack of T2 tier 2 Battlecruisers less focus on defense = more slots for personal offense. add to that the current lack of reason behind even bringing up t2 tier 2 BC... tbh i would love to see a role for t2 tier 2 BC but only if there was an actual role, and not just some preference towards the gangs fitting. this isn't convincing no matter how many words/posts you make it
Vyktor Abyss Gallente The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.18 16:18:00 - [5] Nonesense to the above posters comment. The game is too much about tank versus tank these days, with "gank" not a viable option versus the ubertanks. Offensive T2 tier 2 Command Ships with related offensive warfare links looks good to me. Not to mention the sexing up of drones (and the game) with a T2 Myrmidon hull! Looks a good proposal to me after the skim read!
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.07.23 15:44:00 - [6] Considering that the past defensive boosts added up to the point where you need up to several minutes to kill one frigate with another, giving some focus back to damage heavy tactics is appropriate. Also, as can be seen in the alliance tournaments, tank heavy fights are boring and taking ages to finish. More gank would not only make combat faster paced, it'd also increase the general amount of losses and as such boost the industrial economy. And as tier 2 Battlecruisers are missing a T2 variant anyway and tier 1 = defensive and tier 2 = offensive is a nice duality, this proposal is not that far fetched. A 'screw tank we just blow everything up' attitude should be feasible and offensive command ships support exactly this tactic. Defensive command ships may allow freeing of slots for offensive modules but they don't support all out offensive tactics as Battle Command Ships.
Manfred Rickenbocker Professors On Steriods DEFI4NT	Posted - 2009.07.24 20:06:00 - [7] Edited by: Manfred Rickenbocker on 24/07/2009 20:09:26 Originally by: Abrazzar Gallente Battle Command ships Name: Apate Hull:Myrmidon Role: Assault Command Ship Developer: CreoDron Slots: 6 H , 5 M , 7 L Hardpoints: Turret , Launcher Drones: 225m¦ / 125 Mbit/sec Battlecruiser skill bonus: 10% increase to drone hitpoints and damage dealt by drones, and 7.5% increase to armor repair amount per level. Command Ship skill bonus: +5 km bonus to Drone operation range and 7.5% bonus to drone optimal range and tracking per level. Role bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need. Name: Hekate Hull:Myrmidon Role: Tactical Command Ship Developer: Rhoden Shipyards Slots: 6 H , 6 M , 6 L Hardpoints: 4 Turret , 4 Launcher Drones: 175m¦ / 75 Mbit/sec Battlecruiser skill bonus: 10% increase to drone hitpoints and damage dealt by drones, and 7.5% increase to armor repair amount per level. Command Ship skill bonus: 10% increase to electronic warfare strength and logistic drones transfer amount and 3% bonus to effectiveness of Drone Warfare Links per level. Role bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously. Swap the two makers: the Tactical should be the Creodron (drone logistics bonus?) while the Assault should be Rhoden. Also, the hardpoints make these a bit of an odd duck. It would be fun to have a Gallente missile boat (you gave the Hekate 4 launchers? ha!) The bonuses for the Hekate are good (as are turret slots), but Id think for the Apate you have to ditch the drone control range bonus. Id definitely give it those 6 launchers (Rhoden IS the Gallente missile maker) but change the secondary command bonus to something evil, like thermal damage (if missiles) or drone MWD speed because thats the biggest pain. As for the Hekate, give it back its 125 MBit bandwidth or you'd end up with a second Eos. All in all Im loving these, but the Gallente might destroy every other ship in the game with these drone bonuses. Edit: Make sure that these have a commensurate skill requirement, like Lv 4 of commandships, before they are allowed to be used... not like anyone wouldnt get it anyway. ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times.
Manfred Rickenbocker Professors On Steriods DEFI4NT	Posted - 2009.07.24 20:26:00 - [8] Originally by: Abrazzar Caldari Battle Command ships Name: Garuda Hull:Drake Role: Assault Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota Slots: 8 H , 6 M , 5 L Hardpoints: 0 Turret , 8 Launcher Drones: 25m¦ / 25 Mbit/sec Battlecruiser skill bonus: 5% shield resistance and 5% bonus to assault missile, heavy assault missile and heavy missile launcher rate of fire per level. Command Ship skill bonus: 10% bonus to Missile velocity and 5% bonus to heavy missile explosion velocity per level. Role bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need. Name: Naga Hull:Drake Role: Tactical Command Ship Developer: Lai Dai Slots: 8 H , 7 M , 4 L Hardpoints: 0 Turret , 6 Launcher Drones: 25m¦ / 25 Mbit/sec Battlecruiser skill bonus: 5% shield resistance and 5% bonus kinetic damage of heavy missiles and heavy assault missiles. Command Ship skill bonus: 10% bonus to Shield capacity and 3% bonus to effectiveness of Missile Warfare Links per level. Role bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously. Lol whut? Is anyone else worried about these? Drakes are already some of the heaviest tanked T1 ships in the game. They can take a beating and with implants and officer gear they practically have the EHP of a dreadnought. If these are really implemented, you can remove the necessity for implants and commander gear to achieve that goal, and with them they are impossible to kill. Nevermind the rule "save that thing to kill last" its going to be "I dont think its worth the time". ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times.
Invelious Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.07.24 23:06:00 - [9] if its a bonus pumping ship, and its amarr, then Khanid Hull all the way. none of this viziam or carthum stuff. leave those to the damage dealing hulls
Xorth Adimus Caldari The Perfect Storm Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.07.24 23:15:00 - [10] One big problem with this is lasers, they are already overpowered, this will bring the term 'WTF BBQ' to a whole new level.

Invelious Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.07.24 23:37:00 - [11] Originally by: Xorth Adimus One big problem with this is lasers, they are already overpowered, this will bring the term 'WTF BBQ' to a whole new level. this is true, but then one could says that blasters, given a range increase could then be even in the same catagory
MrNuby	Posted - 2009.07.25 00:01:00 - [12] I'd change the Apate to: Command Ship skill bonus: 5% bonus to drone MWD speed, tracking and/or optimal range per level Also, Domi has 375m3 drone bay, Ishtar also has 375m3. No reason Apate shouldn't ;) Heck, just for the fun of it I made a fitting ;) Drone Link Augmentor Medium Neut Medium Neut Small Neut Small Neut Small Neut/Drone Warfare Link - Target Structure Analysis MWD EWAR EWAR/Omni Cap Booster Cap Booster Damage Control II Expl. Hardener 1600mm plate EAMN EAMN EAMN/Med Armor rep. Medium Armor Rep Trimark Trimark Or dump the repper(s) and throw on RR.
Lijhal Native Freshfood	Posted - 2009.07.25 10:55:00 - [13] the idea about offensive warfare modules is good ( and old btw) but i for one believe there isnt a new type of "command bc" necessary for this! ccp could change the existing cs' into 2 types ... fleet cs' for defensive warfare and field cs' for offensive warfare without making currently existing cs' redundant ... if ccp would ever introduce tech2 bc's based on tier2 bc's, they should be bringing something logistical on the battlefield .. something like being able to fit some kind of new modules which allow the ship (new t2 bc) to transfer incoming damage from the primary to, lets say, up to 5 another ships within the fleet ... this would bring fleet warfare up to another level and would satisfied the current people who are screaming about blobing and dying to fast in fleet ... of course it should be able to defend it self , based on tech1 ship bonuses + someting else .. only a idea
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.07.25 13:32:00 - [14] As I said in the initial post, all stats are drafts that can be changed at will. Proper balancing will need a more depth investigation and fleshing out and I definitely don't expect CCP to implement those 1:1 if they do it at all. Also, I know it's not a new idea, I just felt like writing my version down. On the developer choices for the ships: I intentionally mixed them up to add more diversity. Of course this can be disputed and it's legit to do so. The developers are more a matter of flavor and less a matter of balancing, so there is more freedom in the choices. Seems I forgot to add turret hardpoints to the Apate. Added 6 of them now. I only put 4 missile hardpoints on the Hekate as all Tactical Command Ships have a reduced amount of hardpoints in general. You need those highslots for command links anyway. I do see the issue with the Naga. A additional 10% per level in shield capacity may indeed lead to a massive, overpowered shield tank. All Tactical Command Ships have a additional defensive bonus though. Maybe replacing that with a, say, 20% reduction in Shield Extender Signature Radius Bonus per level may be both unique and useful for defense without being massively overpowered. Offensive Warfare links won't suddenly make lasers overpowered. All kinds of weapons get a similar boost through the links, so if there is a imbalance, it already exists, but that would be a different topic altogether. I like the responses so far. Keep the input coming! -------- Ideas for: Mining
Mr Reason	Posted - 2009.08.16 11:28:00 - [15] - I like the idea of a more offensive group of gang bonuses - I also like the idea of finding a real use for the tier 2 BC hulls other than the boring and silly "lets replace one of the current models" However I DO understand that as the tier 2's are a whole lot better, using them as a platform while simply copying the stats and building from there will create monstrosities. It's going to take a whole lot of toning down and thought before you can convert a tier 2 BC into a T2 one without making it the WTFBBQPWN ship of choice. It would be one of the shipclasses that SHOULD come prenerfed. Nerfing a Fleet Command is easy; just lower it's dps capabilities into obvilivion but how on earth are you going to balance the Field Commands? Give a drake more dps and it becomes silly, same for the harb, cane and your proposed Apate. I like the idea a whole lot but I don't see how you could balance it realistically without chopping the tier 2's legs off before giving it running shoes.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.08.16 12:10:00 - [16] They could get the reduced T2 resistances of Covert Ops and Force Recon ships instead of the full combat T2 resistances. That would essentially put them into the gank for tank category. The current Field Command ships would be the ones with better tanks but less gank. It would fit with the purpose of Battle Command ships to be about all out offense with disregard for defense. -------- Ideas for: Mining
666Devious Sinister Elite Raining Doom	Posted - 2009.08.17 11:45:00 - [17] Great idea and well thought out. Only change i would suggest is reduce the high slots and give double damage bonus. example one of the harbingers has 8 highs and 6 turrets, give it 5 highs 3 turrets with 100% damage bonus. This idea would have finally give me a reason to train command ships. I know one person, sorry for not quoting, said it would get silly. Let it get silly then, it will be just another tactic required to beat them like anything else. You can't solo a carrier with a T2 cruiser (did see the cruiser kill an afk carrier) so u need to bring something bigger/better to the table. I like it.
Sir Substance Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp	Posted - 2009.08.24 06:16:00 - [18] id just like to point out that having ships with dronebays larger then their bandwidth when the bandwith is less then 125 is utterly ******ed. ------ I, for one, welcome our new console overlords!
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Eclats de verre	Posted - 2009.08.27 12:24:00 - [19] Originally by: Sir Substance id just like to point out that having ships with dronebays larger then their bandwidth when the bandwith is less then 125 is utterly ******ed. I can't agree there. A droneship is a ship that needs spare drones. The arbitrator/pilgrim/curse are great thanks to their 150m3 dronebay and still having 50Mb/s bandwidth. It allows to bring more drone types to the fight. What's not great for droneboats is when bandwidth is not a practical number, like 75 (vexor/myrmidon) or 100 (vexor navy issue) and the dronebay won't allow many spares. You end up using several drone types at once, managing losses is hell considering you fly several types, and spares in the little bit of remaining dronebay are just not enough. For T2 droneboats and their bandwidth, I consider it would be better to have not that much bandwith and have another damage bonus unless you want more bandwidth to use the sentry drones. Also, too bad we don't have any medium sized sentry drones (10m3), which would bring new options for droneboats of smaller size and higher bonuses (for the T2 ones). -- Fanfest memories : I looked in your eyes And I found the galaxy Now I'm stuck in eve.
Efrim Black Gallente Guardians of Misr	Posted - 2009.11.10 03:08:00 - [20] Ok so - if this has been posted in Assembly hall for the CSM, link me so I can support it. If it hasn't.. FREAKING POST IT!!!! prays for t2 Hurricane

Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.11.12 16:03:00 - [21] Originally by: Efrim Black Ok so - if this has been posted in Assembly hall for the CSM, link me so I can support it. If it hasn't.. FREAKING POST IT!!!! prays for t2 Hurricane Considering my stance towards the CSM, it would be dishonest to start a thread about this on the Assembly Hall. --------


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