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Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
301
|
Posted - 2011.09.18 20:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
I have stated several times that I do not intend to offer you or sell you anything. I have also made my statements very simple. If you wish to further obfuscate my message so that you can justify ignoring it, then that is your prerogative. |
John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 09:33:00 -
[32] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:I am proposing, without offering you anything for doing so, that you relocate yourself and whatever followers as will accompany you to Delve, and, once there, you live out the freespace ideals that you have long espoused in a region which shall be kept free of laws, dictators, religions and so on. Neither I nor my organisation offer you any protection or quarter, nor do we expect any from you and yours; moreover, you will likely want to set us Red, because as a non-entity we will shoot you on sight. But those are details for diplomats and politicians. I simply wish you to carve out a lot for yourself in Freeport Delve and live however it is you wish to live. It will be both difficult and dangerous, and you will likely be facing an uphill battle against every organisation that inhabits the regionGÇöto include my own; but, you would be "free," and no one would ever again be able to call you out for inaction.
In short the alliance you are associated with is just looking for more people to kill, you should really stop trying to sugar coat the offer people might take you more seriously. |
Lyn Farel
Extropian Technologies
7
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 11:05:00 -
[33] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:I am proposing, without offering you anything for doing so, that you relocate yourself and whatever followers as will accompany you to Delve, and, once there, you live out the freespace ideals that you have long espoused in a region which shall be kept free of laws, dictators, religions and so on. Neither I nor my organisation offer you any protection or quarter, nor do we expect any from you and yours; moreover, you will likely want to set us Red, because as a non-entity we will shoot you on sight. But those are details for diplomats and politicians. I simply wish you to carve out a lot for yourself in Freeport Delve and live however it is you wish to live. It will be both difficult and dangerous, and you will likely be facing an uphill battle against every organisation that inhabits the regionGÇöto include my own; but, you would be "free," and no one would ever again be able to call you out for inaction. If I have this straight. You are "inviting" people to come and live in a Blood Raider sovereignty region with stations you don't control and fight against each other to prove their right to exist or something? What is the difference between that and somebody else inviting people to come and live in the Gurrista stations in Venal and call it "freeport venal"? I'm not sure what role you actually play in this offer. Its like selling something you don't own for the currency of noteriety to people that don't need to buy it in the first place.
What the difference with a fractionite freeport, out of curiosity ? |
Caviar Liberta
Moira.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 11:53:00 -
[34] - Quote
The Statist has an insatible appetite for control. His sights are set on the next meal even before he has fully digested his last. He is constantly agitating for action. And in furtherance of that purpose, the Statist speaks in the tongue of the demagogue, concocting one pretext and grievance after another to manipulate public perceptions and build popular momentum for the divestiture of liberty and property from its rightful possessors.
Seems to sound familiar to words and actions of certain individuals and organizations now doesn't it. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
266
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 13:28:00 -
[35] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:I am proposing, without offering you anything for doing so, that you relocate yourself and whatever followers as will accompany you to Delve, and, once there, you live out the freespace ideals that you have long espoused in a region which shall be kept free of laws, dictators, religions and so on. Neither I nor my organisation offer you any protection or quarter, nor do we expect any from you and yours; moreover, you will likely want to set us Red, because as a non-entity we will shoot you on sight. But those are details for diplomats and politicians. I simply wish you to carve out a lot for yourself in Freeport Delve and live however it is you wish to live. It will be both difficult and dangerous, and you will likely be facing an uphill battle against every organisation that inhabits the regionGÇöto include my own; but, you would be "free," and no one would ever again be able to call you out for inaction. If I have this straight. You are "inviting" people to come and live in a Blood Raider sovereignty region with stations you don't control and fight against each other to prove their right to exist or something? What is the difference between that and somebody else inviting people to come and live in the Gurrista stations in Venal and call it "freeport venal"? I'm not sure what role you actually play in this offer. Its like selling something you don't own for the currency of noteriety to people that don't need to buy it in the first place. What the difference with a fractionite freeport, out of curiosity ?
Well firstly I'll acknowledge I didn't fully understand what it was that ms Nairn was "offering". But a little research has revealed the details. As I now understand it what Goonswarm is doing is removing all capsuleer-owned sovereignty from Delve and conquering all the non blood-raider outposts and erecting their own claim units while pledging to keep the outposts open to all with available facilties. They offer nobody standings and will of course treat anyone moving to this space as targets but they challenge capsuleer corporations to make a living there in what they consider to be genuine chaotic freespace.
A problem of course is the Goonswarm reputation. There is literally no reason that then Goons could not encourage a whole group of corporations and alliances to move their assets into these outposts for a while before changing their minds and restricting docking rights and removing offices. In effect they would capture untold billions of assets which they could ransom back at their leisure. It would be a fine carnival of "griefing" and that perhaps is the biggest problem ms Nairn has in selling the concept. To take her at her word one would need to bet against the goons simply changing their minds and trapping your possessions in outposts there.
So to your question Lyn Farel the honest answer is "reputation". The Fraction do not betray our friends or allies and we've maintained our NRDS principles and consistent ideals since the beginning of the capsuleer Diaspora. When we established TAZ Norlonto as a freeport in the New Providence period all neutrals and friends knew that our word could be trusted and we wouldn't suddenly turn round and restrict docking rights after they based their industrial fleet there.
So understand. I did misjudge what ms Nairn was saying earlier and for that I do apologize. I do actually believe she believes in what she is offering here, literally a chaotic environment on the deep frontier where the strongest flourish and utlize these "free ports" as a base. But as I said, the problem is that I don't personally (and I suspect I would be joined in the opinions of many) trust the goon directorate to keep the promise to maintain these outposts as freeports in the longterm.
It might well just be a "trap". And that really is a problem with the Goonswarm reputation in New Eden.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
302
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 13:31:00 -
[36] - Quote
John Revenent wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:I am proposing, without offering you anything for doing so, that you relocate yourself and whatever followers as will accompany you to Delve, and, once there, you live out the freespace ideals that you have long espoused in a region which shall be kept free of laws, dictators, religions and so on. Neither I nor my organisation offer you any protection or quarter, nor do we expect any from you and yours; moreover, you will likely want to set us Red, because as a non-entity we will shoot you on sight. But those are details for diplomats and politicians. I simply wish you to carve out a lot for yourself in Freeport Delve and live however it is you wish to live. It will be both difficult and dangerous, and you will likely be facing an uphill battle against every organisation that inhabits the regionGÇöto include my own; but, you would be "free," and no one would ever again be able to call you out for inaction. In short the alliance you are associated with is just looking for more people to kill, you should really stop trying to sugar coat the offer people might take you more seriously. Revenent-haan;
My organisation needn't look far to find people willing to shoot us, or whom we are willing to shoot. I am pointing out an opportunity that has arisen as a result of decisions made by my organisation's leadership, and nothing more. I have gone out of my way to stress that this is not an invitation to be our friends, to fly under our protection, or anything else pleasant like that. How you see this as "sugar coating," I am not certain; but, if you have any suggestions on how I may reword it to more accurately and forthrightly describe the situation, then by all means please have one of your people forward me proposed edits. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
266
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 13:34:00 -
[37] - Quote
Caviar Liberta wrote:The Statist has an insatible appetite for control. His sights are set on the next meal even before he has fully digested his last. He is constantly agitating for action. And in furtherance of that purpose, the Statist speaks in the tongue of the demagogue, concocting one pretext and grievance after another to manipulate public perceptions and build popular momentum for the divestiture of liberty and property from its rightful possessors.
Seems to sound familiar to words and actions of certain individuals and organizations now doesn't it.
I suggest you speak to your corporate leadership and ask them why they did not wish to formally conclude hostilties in the manner that Trinova have so appropriately demonstrated with great dignity in this very thread.
The Star Fraction vs Moira conflict in Placid was over with the destruction of your Pelille HQ and the general exodus of your forces from the area. The conflict could easily have been resolved at that point with simple diplomacy. I believe all we wanted from you was the acknowledgement that you had been wrong to describe our presence in the region as "destabilizing" for honest business and to admit your initial attacks on our vessels was unwarrented.
Your leadership refused these perfectly-reasonable terms and opted to skulk away. When they began to skulk back again we dropped a wardec in place to allow us to shoot up your vessels if it appeared you were hoping to re-establish an operating presence for hostility against free trade in the region.
That really is all that needs to be said.
IF you want to properly conclude hostilites then the door for diplomacy is always open. If not, then don't try to shift the responsibility for conflict onto the side that has only ever been defending free trade and open transit in placid.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
304
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 13:51:00 -
[38] - Quote
Jade Constantine;
I can understand your personal lack of trust towards GoonSwarm Federation and its individual members; indeed, I have neither the authority nor the inclination to promise you that the hypothetical situation you proposeGÇöthe sudden change of docking rights policies sometime in the futureGÇöwould not occur. I confirm and tell you this upfront, because integrity is something that I believe is important when dealing or speaking between stellar powers.
As a side note, this is a belief that is shared throughout my organisation. I invite you to do some more research and query those entities with whom my organisation has aligned itself over the years, and to share with the rest of The Summit what you find concerning our dealings with friends. It is the message of internal communication among the organisation that we have always acted as forthright and supportive allies to those entities we call friends, and that individual membersGÇöwhile free to commit unscrupulous acts as private citizensGÇömust never act to undermine diplomatic relations with entities for which we have set positive standings. I am curious if an independent study by a third party such as yourself would reveal this claim and guideline to be full of integrity, or some sort of deception perpetuated by our leadership upon we, the common folk who constitute the "swarm". I am also curious if such an investigation's result would have any change whatsoever on the view that most people have for the organisation; I find that many, out of either fear or contempt, transfer within their perception the attributes of certain unwholesome individuals onto the organisation, and this saddens me for I have been in many capsuleer corporations and in none of them have I found so pleasant an environment as the one I presently occupy. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
267
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 14:05:00 -
[39] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote: I can understand your personal lack of trust towards GoonSwarm Federation and its individual members; indeed, I have neither the authority nor the inclination to promise you that the hypothetical situation you proposeGÇöthe sudden change of docking rights policies sometime in the futureGÇöwould not occur. I confirm and tell you this upfront, because integrity is something that I believe is important when dealing or speaking between stellar powers.
As a side note, this is a belief that is shared throughout my organisation. I invite you to do some more research and query those entities with whom my organisation has aligned itself over the years, and to share with the rest of The Summit what you find concerning our dealings with friends.
An idea just occured to me Lyris Nairn on this precise subject. I'm glad you appreciate that an organization moving its assets to "freeport delve" would need to make a trust assessment on the reputation of the Goonswarm leadership and I further acknowledge that the personal faith and honesty of Goonswarm members could well influence this decision. So lets do a trust excercise. I have an unblemished record for honourable dealings in new eden since the beginning of the disapora. I have never stolen or betrayed my allies, never broken faith or such.
Would you trust me with the value of a medium sized corporation's assets?
I give you an opportunity to prove yourself the bolder and more courageous than I am.
Transfer to my ISK account the sum of 30 billion isk and I give you my word I will send it back to you and report the exchange to this summit. If nothing else it will show that you are prepared to take the scale of risk that you are inviting others to experience.
If you do this thing you will have proven something to everyone here and genuinely achieved a PR result.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
309
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 14:19:00 -
[40] - Quote
Jade Constantine;
I have mentioned previously in the commlink channel The Summit that I do not keep sums greater than 5 billion ISK liquid at any given time, due to the very public fact that I am an investor by trade and liquid assets in my wallet do not earn me a profit. I am willing to do this in perhaps a month or two, once present investments mature; though, in that time the relevance of this thread would have passed in the public memory.
I question what you hope to accomplish with this little stunt, since my willingness as an individual to give 30 billion ISK to a pretty face that asked nicely is hardly a reflection of the temperament of anyone else in my organisation, or of our leadership's disposition toward future intentions. I suspect you simply hope that I will back down from your proposal so that you can point at my refusal to throw money away as somehow being indicative of something else.
Care to prove me wrong? |
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
268
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 14:31:00 -
[41] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Jade Constantine; I have mentioned previously in the commlink channel The Summit that I do not keep sums greater than 5 billion ISK liquid at any given time, due to the very public fact that I am an investor by trade and liquid assets in my wallet do not earn me a profit. I am willing to do this in perhaps a month or two, once present investments mature; though, in that time the relevance of this thread would have passed in the public memory.
I can certainly understand that - perhaps you might ask the goon directorate to make the funds available to you for this purpose?
Lyris Nairn wrote:I question what you hope to accomplish with this little stunt, since my willingness as an individual to give 30 billion ISK to a pretty face that asked nicely is hardly a reflection of the temperament of anyone else in my organisation, or of our leadership's disposition toward future intentions.
Simply as I said, its a trust excercise that would show you are as willing to place a significant sum of isk at hazard as the CEO of a corporation taking up your suggestion in Delve would be placing at risk the assets of their organization against future docking revoking. Nothing more or less than that.
Lyris Nairn wrote:I suspect you simply hope that I will back down from your proposal so that you can point at my refusal to throw money away as somehow being indicative of something else. Care to prove me wrong?
Strangely enough in my heart of hearts I'm actually hoping you do it. It would genuinely surprise me and cause me to revisit a number of current opinions and assessments.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
309
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 14:38:00 -
[42] - Quote
Jade Constantine;
Giving you 30 billion ISK is no more a "hazard" than a super-capital jumping through a cynosural field onto a hot battleground. You and I both know that this is not an exercise in trust: it is a publicity stunt which you are arranging so that you can point out my lack of cooperation should I decline. It shows nothing of my trustworthiness, or that of my organisation; instead, it shows how willing I am to be fast and loose with my money, and it offers you the opportunity to toot your own horn with more of the self-aggrandizing behavior which is typical of your posts on the IGS. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
315
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 15:08:00 -
[43] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Giving you 30 billion ISK is no more a "hazard" than a super-capital jumping through a cynosural field onto a hot battleground. You and I both know that this is not an exercise in trust: it is a publicity stunt which you are arranging so that you can point out my lack of cooperation should I decline.
I honestly hope you call my bluff and decide to take this excercise in trust seriously.
Quote:It shows nothing of my trustworthiness, or that of my organisation; instead, it shows how willing I am to be fast and loose with my money
Well it would show that you were prepared to take the degree of risk that you often decry others for refusing wouldn't it?
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
402
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 15:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
And what is the relevance of that? I've already flat out stated that coming down to Delve is risky. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
402
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 15:10:00 -
[45] - Quote
You seem to be trying to prove a point that I have already conceded before you even started talking. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
315
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 15:13:00 -
[46] - Quote
*shrugs*
I was hoping you'd prove me wrong about something perhaps. But anyway, the offer is there, please think about it.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
402
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 15:14:00 -
[47] - Quote
Exhibit A: Citizens of Delve, Rejoice! Exhibit B: Freeport Delve Exhibit C: World War II
In short, things that fly around in Delve get shot. If you care to peruse my recent loss mails, you will find that I've been shooting and being shot fairly regularly; and, if you care to peruse other publicly available data, you will find that many other individuals and several organisations are doing the same. There is risk in undocking a ship; there is risk in shooting, or being shot. I take this risk every day as a combat pilot. I have asked people to do nothing more. I have not asked anyone to give me anything, nor have I offered anyone anything resembling a contract, diplomatic contact, or what have you. I have promised nothing more than combat, and the ability to live "free". |
Graelyn
Wolfsbrigade
13
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 16:46:00 -
[48] - Quote
After looking this thread over, all I can conclude is that Jade is a better at trolling comms channels than Goonswarm.
I'm willing to admit this is a feat of some skill.
+ Cardinal Graelyn + They say God lives inside each one of us. Well then, he'd better like Enchiladas, because that's what he's going to get.
|
Jason Galente
mishima ryu
39
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 16:53:00 -
[49] - Quote
Graelyn wrote:After looking this thread over, all I can conclude is that Jade is a better at trolling comms channels than Goonswarm.
I'm willing to admit this is a feat of some skill.
It's hardly a feat , more like a gross waste of time.
|
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
315
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 17:33:00 -
[50] - Quote
Jason Galente wrote:Graelyn wrote:After looking this thread over, all I can conclude is that Jade is a better at trolling comms channels than Goonswarm.
I'm willing to admit this is a feat of some skill.
It's hardly a feat , more like a gross waste of time.
Speak for yourself Jason Galente. Over the course of this thread:
I have accepted the dignified ceasefire request of a respected foe Corrected the revisionist unhistory of a meddling forum clown Clarified the reasoning behind an ancillary snap wardec against existing -10 Discussed matters Freespace and Risk wth a representative of goonswarm Posed a trust excercise with the same which will be interesting discover accepted or no
All matters of communication clear and distinct.
Whereas you have simply +1'ed a throwaway comment with no real substance. If you wish to speak of gross waste of time one might rightly consider the effort somebody once expended to put you through pilot training.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
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Verone
Veto Corp
46
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 17:53:00 -
[51] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Corrected the revisionist unhistory of a meddling forum clown.
Still at it, eh?
You'll grow up eventually sweetheart. Hopefully before too many more of your pilots get sick of your dribbling and seek employment elsewhere.
Verone CEO & Executor Veto Corp WWW.VETO-CORP.COM |
Saiyon
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.20 12:14:00 -
[52] - Quote
I have been following this thread with interest. As a freshly licensed capsuleer in New Eden I have yet to form many contacts however I am familiar with an ex Star Fraction member, who in fairness will speak no ill of them even if he is a bit misguided!
From my limited knowledge of SF and the change in tone I noticed from Jade Constantine during this dialogue I have the sneaking suspicion that the Fraction are actually quite interested in the Goonswarm proposition. It might just be what is required to re-invigorate them.
However the issue is that of trust and reputation....
Why not use a trusted intermediary agreed by both parties such as Chribba for example.
The Goons could deposit 30 billion with Chribba for a 3 month period. During that time if docking rights are removed etc then the monies can be paid out. If not the monies are returned.
3 months should be a reasonable amount of time for the Star Fraction to assess the situation and if the ongoing risk is worth the reward.... |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
315
|
Posted - 2011.09.20 15:03:00 -
[53] - Quote
Always nice to hear from a newly-qualified capsuleer with the ability to form well-written posts pilot Saiyon. And yes you are correct to detect a change in tone from me in discovering the actual details of the Goon proposal in Delve. While their proposed open-docking "fight-club" style carnage in Delve is of course quite a long way from the economic development and enlightened cooperation we envisage for a Capsuleer future on the frontier it is a step up from the closed-border xenophobia of most enclosurist nullsec entities.
Whether this is of interest to the Star Fraction or not in the long term - it is worth acknowledging the plan as something different from the norm at least.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Anything For ISK
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 16:37:00 -
[54] - Quote
Dear Jade Constantine,
One thing that was never addressed, is what exactly did this alliance do to deserve this?
I hate to even infer this Jade, but without some kind of synopsis of what happened, how are the rest of us to know The Star Fraction are not an alliance full of extortionists?
Without the story of what happened, all this does is show that this alliance will yield to any aggressive entity in our universe, making then a prime target. Did you both fight well? Or did they maintain docked, only to get steamrolled? My brother had this happen to him, in his corp, it was so bad that the corp filed for bankruptcy, laying everyone off.
|
Svenjabi Xiang
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
11
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 17:48:00 -
[55] - Quote
Anything For ISK wrote:Dear Jade Constantine, One thing that was never addressed, is what exactly did this alliance do to deserve this?
As our executor is currently planetside, I will address this question only so much as to inform that Star Fraction reserves the right to address old grievances whenever and wherever it chooses in the interest of resolving these differences.
Anything For ISK wrote: I hate to even infer this Jade, but without some kind of synopsis of what happened, how are the rest of us to know The Star Fraction are not an alliance full of extortionists?
As for the readers of IGS, those whom have particular interest in knowing SF have also typically formulated an opinion as to the basic reasoning of SF's operations in space. For those whom haven't, I would invite a quick glance to what was asked of Trinova, the completion of which is available for anyone to view in the opening lines of this thread. This was what we asked of Trinova, which they provided and have lived up to their end of the arrangement to date, as have we.
As for how the war itself was prosecuted, that is a matter between Star Fraction and Trinova and I personally don't see much relevance to bystanders in a public forum.
|
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
22
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 23:22:00 -
[56] - Quote
The political (or anti-political, if you prefer) tendencies of Star Fraction have always been simply fascinating to me.
I've watched this group quietly for a long time, since before I could even step into the capsule.
For all of you scoffing and throwing your typical slew of insults at Jade Constantine, stop. Even anarchists, terrorists, madwomen, and lunatics... whatever you choose to call her... even they hold a lesson to learn. So stop, listen, and learn something from Jade.
...
For the record, I speak on behalf of myself in this comment, not on behalf of the Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive. |
Anything For ISK
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 23:57:00 -
[57] - Quote
Svenjabi Xiang wrote:Anything For ISK wrote:Dear Jade Constantine, One thing that was never addressed, is what exactly did this alliance do to deserve this?
As our executor is currently planetside, I will address this question only so much as to inform that Star Fraction reserves the right to address old grievances whenever and wherever it chooses in the interest of resolving these differences. Anything For ISK wrote: I hate to even infer this Jade, but without some kind of synopsis of what happened, how are the rest of us to know The Star Fraction are not an alliance full of extortionists?
As for the readers of IGS, those whom have particular interest in knowing SF have also typically formulated an opinion as to the basic reasoning of SF's operations in space. For those whom haven't, I would invite a quick glance to what was asked of Trinova, the completion of which is available for anyone to view in the opening comments of this thread. This was what we asked of Trinova, which they provided and have lived up to their end of the arrangement to date, as have we. As for how the war itself was prosecuted, that is a matter between Star Fraction and Trinova and I personally don't see much relevance to bystanders in a public forum.
That engagement was almost 2 years old... Fishing are we?
http://www.jericho-fraction.net/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=47328
When I took a look through your own records, he is not even in the same corp/alliance any more.
Stating that you are avenging kills from almost two years ago is not a very good reason. I've seen pirates make up reasons this thin as well.
I really hope that you are not truly speaking on behalf of Jade, a respected leader in our universe. If that is the case, your whole alliance will look the fool. I would also like to address what was "asked" of this alliance. You asked them to bow down do you, publicly under the threat of further violence? I believe that is textbook definition of extortion?
I beg to ask again, this time with a formal response from Jade Constantine. Surly Star Fraction does not hold 2 year grudges to the alliance of a podder has left and holds them to his previous actions? |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
333
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 15:13:00 -
[58] - Quote
Dear Miss GÇ£anythingGÇ¥
As my esteemed comrade has mentioned IGÇÖm currently planet-side without reliable access to fluidcom router technology so please donGÇÖt be offended if I am unable to involve myself in a sustained galnet debate on the issues you raise.
That said I hope I can clarify your misunderstanding and answer all concerns you have in one swoop.
As for what Trinova did to deserve being shot at by the Star Fraction in the first place the answer is quite straightforward. At one time Trinova was petitioning for residency in CVA-controlled Providence and was directed to use the CVA red list to choose their targets. This led to Trinova engaging Star Fraction vessels as we waged our war of liberation against the Slavers and their puppets in that benighted region. This is how Trinova came to be set red to the Star Fraction.
Of course we had no direct contact with Trinova for over a year after the fall of CVA Providence but the red standing remained because nobody in Trinova contacted us to suggest its revocation through renewed respectful diplomacy.
Then a couple of months ago some of our pilots noticed Red flagged pilots occupying the GÇ£loopsGÇ¥ lowsec cluster adjacent to Aidart system. Said pilots (Trinova) declared their hostility by their actions and attempted to engage our pilots going about their business in the lowsec area.
So the simple answer to your initial question is GÇô they fired on vessels of the Star Fraction firstly in the service of the slavers of providence and secondly in lowsec Placid: it has been the longstanding policy of the Fraction that we reserve the right to wardec any entity which has earned red standings through aggression (or affiliation with red organization through alliance or militia) without warning.
To your notion that some kind of extortion was at play here I refute that charge completely. While it is true we suffered material loss from the initial aggression from Trinova at no point in negotiations have we asked more from Trinova than a simple apology and pledge to respect our rights of travel and mutual coexistence. (Now you could certainly claim that we "extorted" the apology and pledge on threat of further war but surely you stretch the definition to a ridiculous extreme that if taken literally would mean any peace negotiation would be classed as extortion unless no terms were sought of any kind).
The plain matter is that when an organization chooses to aggress the pilots of the Star Fraction and earn a negative standing for their deeds they are signalling their acceptance of future consequences without limit on duration or geography.
I believe it is rather silly to expect a time limit on the consequences for aggression. Why should that be? It is the mission and guiding principle of the Fraction that actions have consequences and attacks on NRDS freespacers will be punished at a time and place of our convenience. If one wishes never to face the threat of violence from the Fraction all one needs to do is ensure neutrality is respected and random hostility is avoided.
Now, there is a coda to this particular story which will bare telling and it involves a strange convention of the GÇ£loopsGÇ¥ area where we discovered particular pirate alliances were charging rent over lowsec and forcing their renters to GÇ£police and campGÇ¥ the gates shooting on all neutral traffic as part of their residency agreements.
I think you will agree with us miss GÇ£anythingGÇ¥ that there are few things in the universe more ridiculous than the notion of charging GÇ£rentGÇ¥ for lowsec access and forcing oneGÇÖs renters to shoot all free traffic is a deeply regressive deed to be discouraged by all fair-minded sovereign individual pilots of the cluster!
Trinova (as is clear from the op) are no longer party to this practise and met our terms for the end of hostilities and resolution of past diplomatic grievance.
We consider this a wholly positive outcome for ourselves and indeed for neutral commercial traffic in the Placid region.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Anything For ISK
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.09.26 17:27:00 -
[59] - Quote
Thank you very much for the clarification Jade,
I am very happy to see that Star Fraction is actually exactly opposite of what was originally portrayed. You and your alliance are helping to remove the extortionists. I have very happy to hear this and an very thankful for the clarification.
You are 100% correct, no one should "pay" for lowsec. I wish you well on your ventures, and look forward to hear from you when you clean the area up!
Fly Safe! |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2222
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Posted - 2011.10.12 21:22:00 -
[60] - Quote
It seems that in my two week absence from the forums, I forgot about this thread. My sincere apologies. Would we care to resume the discussion, in light of events that have occurred over the past month or so of Operation Freeport? |
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