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Assault ships Willpower primary? Invalidating a core expectation.

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Wharchild	Posted - 2004.09.28 18:53:00 - [1] In the latest patch, Assault ship skills were made to be Willpower primary and Perception secondary. Of all the changes CCP has made in the months since I started playing, I think this has to be one of the most ill-conceived. Why? Because CCP established certain expectations on how character progression would work, and now they've changed it mid-stream. I spent the first few days in the game educating myself on how training worked and all the skills out there. Since each incremental point added to a Primary attribute has twice the impact on training as one added to a Secondary, it makes sense that if you want to specialize, you favor the primary attribute heavily over the secondary. So I re-made my character doing just that. I wanted to be a combat pilot; and after reviewing the skills required to fly a ship bristling with guns (pre-interceptor days) and mount some electronics on it, the skills required would mostly be Perception and Intelligence centric. So now I am a specialist. Well... was. Unfortunately, Willpower is my character's lowest attribute. I won't tell you the training times for Assault ships became astronomical, because they didn't. Not yet. But what about battleships? Or TL3/4 ships? If those are also Willpower primary, my character really will begin to feel like a gimp when training in the area in which I thought I was specializing. It's too easy to train up to fly a battleship. Training to level 4 takes too little time, and training to level 5 takes too long. I've heard at least individual devs admit to these, but also state that they would not be changed because player expecations in these areas are already set. For more than a year after launch (and when I created my character), training to fly a combat ship was about Perception first. My expectations were set. Assault ship skills (and in my mind Interceptors) must be Perception/Willpower. Logistics, Covert Ops, Black Ops... those are a new ball of wax. Nothing like them existed before, so if they're Willpower primary, so be it. I just didn't see it coming. But flip-flopping the attributes for Frigate and Assault Frigate isn't something anyone should have seen coming.
Wharchild	Posted - 2004.09.28 18:53:00 - [2] In the latest patch, Assault ship skills were made to be Willpower primary and Perception secondary. Of all the changes CCP has made in the months since I started playing, I think this has to be one of the most ill-conceived. Why? Because CCP established certain expectations on how character progression would work, and now they've changed it mid-stream. I spent the first few days in the game educating myself on how training worked and all the skills out there. Since each incremental point added to a Primary attribute has twice the impact on training as one added to a Secondary, it makes sense that if you want to specialize, you favor the primary attribute heavily over the secondary. So I re-made my character doing just that. I wanted to be a combat pilot; and after reviewing the skills required to fly a ship bristling with guns (pre-interceptor days) and mount some electronics on it, the skills required would mostly be Perception and Intelligence centric. So now I am a specialist. Well... was. Unfortunately, Willpower is my character's lowest attribute. I won't tell you the training times for Assault ships became astronomical, because they didn't. Not yet. But what about battleships? Or TL3/4 ships? If those are also Willpower primary, my character really will begin to feel like a gimp when training in the area in which I thought I was specializing. It's too easy to train up to fly a battleship. Training to level 4 takes too little time, and training to level 5 takes too long. I've heard at least individual devs admit to these, but also state that they would not be changed because player expecations in these areas are already set. For more than a year after launch (and when I created my character), training to fly a combat ship was about Perception first. My expectations were set. Assault ship skills (and in my mind Interceptors) must be Perception/Willpower. Logistics, Covert Ops, Black Ops... those are a new ball of wax. Nothing like them existed before, so if they're Willpower primary, so be it. I just didn't see it coming. But flip-flopping the attributes for Frigate and Assault Frigate isn't something anyone should have seen coming.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.28 19:10:00 - [3] I've always thought it sucked that gunnery and Spaceship commands skills both need perception as a primary. I'd love it if Spaceship Command went back to Willpower as primary. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.28 19:10:00 - [4] I've always thought it sucked that gunnery and Spaceship commands skills both need perception as a primary. I'd love it if Spaceship Command went back to Willpower as primary. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Ryctor	Posted - 2004.09.28 19:11:00 - [5] Waaaaa I want my new toy yesterday. WAAAAAA. Mommy why can't I have a new toy. WAAAAAAAAAA. Stop whining and(as everyone likes to tell the pirates)....ADAPT!
Ryctor	Posted - 2004.09.28 19:11:00 - [6] Waaaaa I want my new toy yesterday. WAAAAAA. Mommy why can't I have a new toy. WAAAAAAAAAA. Stop whining and(as everyone likes to tell the pirates)....ADAPT!
Shevar	Posted - 2004.09.28 19:11:00 - [7] All t2 ship skills have been and are wp/perc. From covert ops to interceptor. So I dont see why assault ships will be any diffrent. -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Shevar	Posted - 2004.09.28 19:11:00 - [8] All t2 ship skills have been and are wp/perc. From covert ops to interceptor. So I dont see why assault ships will be any diffrent. -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Jozef Meurtrier	Posted - 2004.09.28 19:15:00 - [9] Willpower is still the 4th atribute, only just above charisma. What about all those amarrians who started with 14 will/4 perc?
Jozef Meurtrier	Posted - 2004.09.28 19:15:00 - [10] Willpower is still the 4th atribute, only just above charisma. What about all those amarrians who started with 14 will/4 perc?

Athule Snanm	Posted - 2004.09.28 19:19:00 - [11] Well in the manual it says that Willpower is for flying ships (presumably due to the pod interfacing the ship via mind control). I think something that explicit is a pretty good basis for a 'core expection'. Now explain to me why Willpower isn't the primary attribute for all starship piloting skills... _______________________________ Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene!
Athule Snanm	Posted - 2004.09.28 19:19:00 - [12] Well in the manual it says that Willpower is for flying ships (presumably due to the pod interfacing the ship via mind control). I think something that explicit is a pretty good basis for a 'core expection'. Now explain to me why Willpower isn't the primary attribute for all starship piloting skills... _______________________________ Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene!
Shadowsword	Posted - 2004.09.28 19:55:00 - [13] The funny thing you'll have as a result, is that if you want to specialize you need to be an all-rounder.
Shadowsword	Posted - 2004.09.28 19:55:00 - [14] The funny thing you'll have as a result, is that if you want to specialize you need to be an all-rounder.
Devestator	Posted - 2004.09.28 20:21:00 - [15] WooT!! I can finally use my 24 willpower I knew if i held out a year and 4 months that the attribute would finally become usefull.
Devestator	Posted - 2004.09.28 20:21:00 - [16] WooT!! I can finally use my 24 willpower I knew if i held out a year and 4 months that the attribute would finally become usefull.
Kenan Waroria	Posted - 2004.09.28 22:16:00 - [17] Well, to be honest I was kind of angry the day they made all Gunnery skill Perception as Primary and Will Power secondary, if I¦m not totally wrong pre castor some of them had Will power as primary. Don¦t you think that changed a lot for most Amarr based players? Well I don¦t have ³ber Will or really bad Per (Will 10 and Per 7), but it still made my training slower. You just have to adapt because this game changes a lot over time and mostly to the better. When will Spaceship command have Will power as primary? Let¦s even things up a bit.. "Full circle"
Kenan Waroria	Posted - 2004.09.28 22:16:00 - [18] Well, to be honest I was kind of angry the day they made all Gunnery skill Perception as Primary and Will Power secondary, if I¦m not totally wrong pre castor some of them had Will power as primary. Don¦t you think that changed a lot for most Amarr based players? Well I don¦t have ³ber Will or really bad Per (Will 10 and Per 7), but it still made my training slower. You just have to adapt because this game changes a lot over time and mostly to the better. When will Spaceship command have Will power as primary? Let¦s even things up a bit.. "Full circle"
Kunming	Posted - 2004.09.28 22:36:00 - [19] Having Will as highest attribute I'm glad its useful something at last Intercepting since BETA
Kunming	Posted - 2004.09.28 22:36:00 - [20] Having Will as highest attribute I'm glad its useful something at last Intercepting since BETA

Soren	Posted - 2004.09.28 22:58:00 - [21] You can stop whining now. Before you came along either gunnery or spaceship command(forget which) were willpower based, alot of OLDER characters then you based their characters around willpower for that reason and have been nerfed for months. You still have all the base skills set for you, so shush. _________________________________________________________
Soren	Posted - 2004.09.28 22:58:00 - [22] You can stop whining now. Before you came along either gunnery or spaceship command(forget which) were willpower based, alot of OLDER characters then you based their characters around willpower for that reason and have been nerfed for months. You still have all the base skills set for you, so shush. _________________________________________________________
Arud	Posted - 2004.09.28 23:09:00 - [23] Originally by: Joshua Calvert I've always thought it sucked that gunnery and Spaceship commands skills both need perception as a primary. I'd love it if Spaceship Command went back to Willpower as primary. totaly agree, willpower right now would be more useless than charisma if it wasnt for tech2 ships
Arud	Posted - 2004.09.28 23:09:00 - [24] Originally by: Joshua Calvert I've always thought it sucked that gunnery and Spaceship commands skills both need perception as a primary. I'd love it if Spaceship Command went back to Willpower as primary. totaly agree, willpower right now would be more useless than charisma if it wasnt for tech2 ships
Kaladryn	Posted - 2004.09.28 23:27:00 - [25] Soren has given the correct response :) Kaladryn
Kaladryn	Posted - 2004.09.28 23:27:00 - [26] Soren has given the correct response :) Kaladryn
Trevedian	Posted - 2004.09.29 00:32:00 - [27] More Willpower Skills! Screw the Whiners! Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
Trevedian	Posted - 2004.09.29 00:32:00 - [28] More Willpower Skills! Screw the Whiners! Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
Wharchild	Posted - 2004.09.29 00:47:00 - [29] They've done this before eh? Well I understand where many of you are coming from then. I'm also sure most of you who saw the foundation behind your Willpower-based characters crumble some months back can agree I have a legitimate grievance, not just a whine. As Shadowsword said, I guess the best route to go is to be an all-arounder so you don't get pushed around by the changing winds. Let's see 'em put that in the manual.
Wharchild	Posted - 2004.09.29 00:47:00 - [30] They've done this before eh? Well I understand where many of you are coming from then. I'm also sure most of you who saw the foundation behind your Willpower-based characters crumble some months back can agree I have a legitimate grievance, not just a whine. As Shadowsword said, I guess the best route to go is to be an all-arounder so you don't get pushed around by the changing winds. Let's see 'em put that in the manual.



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