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To Bump or Not To Bump. That is the ?

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Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2009.07.21 01:06:00 - [1] So, I was low on ore and logged in my alt to replenish my stock. Already having some bm's in place, I warp to my spot. There I find a good size mining op in the belt about 30km away from me. Within that fleet was a Vagabond. Having no relations with said corp. I decide to fire up my lasers instead of moving on to another belt. When all of a sudden I find myself about 25km away from the roids I had targeted. I thought to myself what a **er. Didn't want to let him think he got the best of me and was not going to scare me off that easily. I warp out and back in. Only to be rammed over and over again. Being tired of all the veld gone everytime I need some this started me thinking it would be a good way to handle some macro's and ore farmers. Jumped in my Viator and had at it. This ship works very well at this. Mass and speed very good. Not to mention how fast it warps to next hit on my directional scanner. My Goal was to ** them off enough that they would just move on to mine in another system or just wardec my corp. Instead this guy sent petition to ccp. Here is the evemail I got. Bumping other players intentionally for an extended period is considered harassment. Please cease all such activity or face further repercussions. Best regards, GM Macayle EVE Online Customer Support I sent a reply to be shown where in EULA this is not allowed. Still awaiting their response. Now, I have to ask was that really worth it. End result was my corp. wardecing this HOMO. Now, he will never be able to mine no joke 16 hrs a day, every day. When, all he had to do was go somewhere else with the BS.
Denidil Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2009.07.21 01:28:00 - [2] CCP's GM needs to STFU
Future Mutant Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.07.21 02:11:00 - [3] I think this mechanic needs some clarification.. This is how i see it- not sure how ccp looks at it. Bumping just for the sake of bumping could be considered griefing- but then again what in eve couldnt be classed that way. I could see it if you were hunting the same guy down every time he logs on and bump him. But thats not the case here. The case here seems to be their corp bumped you to get you out of way of their mining operation. Your reply to their actions was to give them some of their own medicine. To me thats a legit tactic. They bump me they get some nano cane. But apparently we live in a world with ten year olds who like to push ppl around and when they get pushed back they petition mom to make it stop. My advice- if you get bumped again start a convo and ask them whats with the bumps- save it of course. Their reply is going to be along the lines of "GTFO". Then give them some nano cane. Hard to petition about a tactic they themselves use- and your saved convo gives you some proof. Your stuff iz mine through actions
Kaurapa	Posted - 2009.07.21 02:14:00 - [4] Someone you were bumping has reported you in a petition which ccp has followed up. Resulting in you getting warned. Once again it is evidence of ccp trying to increase market share by dumbing down the game so people who lack initiative, imagination and the get up and go to sort issues in their own capacity can keep paying their monthly subs. You saw a problem and found a way using game mechanics to remove that problem - and the sandpit over watchers have come to slap you for your use of initiative. The correct way to have dealt with this issue in ccp's communist set up would have been to petition the original vaga pilot who was bumping you. Soon it will be against the EULA to seek any sort of problem resolution in game. Strange considering its set up in a capitalist utopia with very limited resources. Your skill and initiative are wasted in empire - you should consider life in 0.0
Baka Lakadaka Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2009.07.21 03:35:00 - [5] Let me get this straight - you were bumping the corp that bumped you, correct? or some random people. If you're bumping the people who bumped you, then point that out - rightfully they should be getting the warning for wasting the GMs time. Be very polite and point out the issues, stick to the facts. GMs are people and they respond well to people who treat them with respect - yelling and screaming at a GM will only get you 1) the response you didn't want or 2) placed at the end of the queue. Don't go down the line of "show me the rule that says...." it's a no win situation. They don't have to justify their decisions to you, but you can ask for a senior GM to review a decision. If it's just some random you decided to bump then you've got less of a case. ______________________ Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University. Now Recruiting.
Madner Kami	Posted - 2009.07.21 06:51:00 - [6] Edited by: Madner Kami on 21/07/2009 06:52:20 Originally by: Baka Lakadaka Let me get this straight - you were bumping the corp that bumped you, correct? or some random people. If you're bumping the people who bumped you, then point that out - rightfully they should be getting the warning for wasting the GMs time. Be very polite and point out the issues, stick to the facts. GMs are people and they respond well to people who treat them with respect - yelling and screaming at a GM will only get you 1) the response you didn't want or 2) placed at the end of the queue. Don't go down the line of "show me the rule that says...." it's a no win situation. They don't have to justify their decisions to you, but you can ask for a senior GM to review a decision. If it's just some random you decided to bump then you've got less of a case. I can't agree more with anything but these words. What you saw, was a little 10 years old idiot, who tasted his own medicine and then ran to mum to whine and mum acted because she knows only his side. Write back to that GM in a polite manner and let him know, that he got abused. With a bit of luck the kiddy's plot is going to backfire majorly. Oh and about bumping, the basic outlined rules were: If you do it for griefing, it's forbidden, if you do it for gaming, you can do it freely. Ingame that means bumping that freighter so he can't align without going to attack him: No go. Bump that same freighter in the intention of keeping him from warping away from your ganking-gang: Fair game. I'm pretty much convinced that the same applies to what happened in the belt and the GM simply got told fairy-tales.
BigBobbom	Posted - 2009.07.21 08:03:00 - [7] -create an alt -send 10 mill isk from alt to main. -bump any one you want. -If petitioned say its a non violent method of market PVP to ensure they would stop doing buisness in the area so you can capture more of the market. -??? -Sucess!
Rexthor Hammerfists Rage of Inferno Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.07.21 09:29:00 - [8] This is the first time i heard of bumping being an exploit, well aside form bumping freighters of gates and ransoming those. Sounds like agm without a clue to me tbh, id try to get a clarification (hint, word it properly and dont do the its no in the eula!!!11) -
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2009.07.22 07:02:00 - [9] still no answer from CCP. after wardec. went through the wuss quit his corp. too bad can't war dec. npc corps.
digdugdiggy	Posted - 2009.07.22 07:19:00 - [10] By this logic, you could call .01 ISK wars griefing. I agree that its a miscommunication with the GM

Trigos Trilobi Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.07.22 10:22:00 - [11] I for one aren't too surprised about the gm reply. The issue is that you can bypass aggression mechanics/concord/etc pvp rules in empire while still potentially causing significant harm to your victim. I'd imagine it's a lot easier for CCP just to warn/punish people occasionally than totally redo the bumping mechanics.
Baka Lakadaka Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2009.07.22 11:15:00 - [12] Originally by: Trigos Trilobi I for one aren't too surprised about the gm reply. The issue is that you can bypass aggression mechanics/concord/etc pvp rules in empire while still potentially causing significant harm to your victim. I'd imagine it's a lot easier for CCP just to warn/punish people occasionally than totally redo the bumping mechanics. There isn't actually anything wrong with bumping. Everyone thought it was wonderful when someone thought of bumping a mothership in low-sec and got the kill. Bumping a freighter to stop it aligning and then attacking it is legitimate. If you're competing for a resource, then it's not griefing, it's PvP. They won't be changing the bumping mechanic any time soon - it's one of the best ways for sub-capitals to hold and kill capital ships. High-sec is supposed to be safer, not harm free. People should take precautions and not assume that they won't be hassled in any way. Just because someone causes harm doesn't automatically translate to griefing, simply because it's in high-sec. ______________________ Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University. Now Recruiting.
Trigos Trilobi Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.07.22 12:02:00 - [13] Originally by: Baka Lakadaka There isn't actually anything wrong with bumping. TBH I think playing bumpercars in space is kinda lame, but each to their own, and in any case that's beside the point. Quote: Everyone thought it was wonderful when someone thought of bumping a mothership in low-sec and got the kill. Bumping a freighter to stop it aligning and then attacking it is legitimate. If you're competing for a resource, then it's not griefing, it's PvP. They won't be changing the bumping mechanic any time soon - it's one of the best ways for sub-capitals to hold and kill capital ships. The op was on about bumping miners in hisec. Quote: High-sec is supposed to be safer, not harm free. People should take precautions and not assume that they won't be hassled in any way. Just because someone causes harm doesn't automatically translate to griefing, simply because it's in high-sec. So you think because the game mechanics allow you to bump someone indefinitely and with no risk of retaliation, it automatically means it's legit? After hours of bumping some poor sod's freighter in hisec, would a thought eventually cross your mind that just maybe this wasn't actually intended by the devs? Would you be surprised if you got warned by a GM? I did not even touch on the subject of wether hisec should be risk-free, less risky or whatever, I just pointed out that considering bumping can be exploited to the extent that it clearly goes against the spirit of the rules and mechanics already in place to govern pvp in hisec and on the other hand taking into account that it's pretty minor problem both in scale and scope and hence probably not worth recoding parts of the game, the gm reply was not really surprising to me.
Baka Lakadaka Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2009.07.22 12:24:00 - [14] Originally by: Trigos Trilobi <snip> The op was on about bumping miners in hisec. <snip> So you think because the game mechanics allow you to bump someone indefinitely and with no risk of retaliation, it automatically means it's legit? <snip> I've taken a couple of your phrases only because I think this is the crux of the issue. The OP wasn't talking about bumping innocent miners in High-sec. If I read it right (and I asked for clarification in my first post, but didn't get an answer), then he was actually warned when he retaliated because he was bumped. He decided he would fight the people bumping, by bumping them back and got reported. There's always a retaliation possible, if you bother to think about it. These guys got narky because someone mined in 'their' belt and bumped him. He got them back by bumping them. What's lame is using a tactic, then running to the GMs when someone does it back to you. Miners in high sec are free to use whatever legal tactics they want to protect their interests....which includes bumping people off the belts they're mining, IMO. If you don't like being bumped, you can always bump back or go elsewhere, or steal their ore and hope they try to shoot you. In this case the OP went to the trouble of war-deccing them, which was a great tactic as it showed them to have no guts at all by promptly quitting corp. No doubt they'll be back in corp as soon as the war-dec is over. It's not the OP bumping that's the problem here - it's the lack of honour and guts on the part of the miners who dobbed when someone retaliated to the original bump. ______________________ Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University. Now Recruiting.
Trigos Trilobi Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.07.22 12:58:00 - [15] Edited by: Trigos Trilobi on 22/07/2009 12:58:28 Originally by: Baka Lakadaka The OP wasn't talking about bumping innocent miners in High-sec. If I read it right (and I asked for clarification in my first post, but didn't get an answer), then he was actually warned when he retaliated because he was bumped. He decided he would fight the people bumping, by bumping them back and got reported. I guess your interpretation of the OP just differs from mine then, I thought Quote: Being tired of all the veld gone everytime I need some this started me thinking it would be a good way to handle some macro's and ore farmers. Jumped in my Viator and had at it. meant he went on to bump some random miners that compete with him at wherever he prefers to mine usually himself. Quote: Miners in high sec are free to use whatever legal tactics they want to protect their interests....which includes bumping people off the belts they're mining, IMO. Judging from the GM reply, your opinion differs from CCP's. Though from what I read it seems more that the 'legal tactic' miners used in this case was filing a petition :) Quote: If you don't like being bumped, you can always bump back or go elsewhere, or steal their ore and hope they try to shoot you. Well, if I'd go and try to ** someone off by repeatedly bumping him off the belt, I'd consider the victim doing my job for me if he went on to counterbump me. He ain't mining, so I've pretty much forced him to play 'my game' either way. Quote:** In this case the OP went to the trouble of war-deccing them I thought the wardec referred to the guy that petitioned him who had nothing to do with the original mining op with a bumper vaga, but again I guess the op is kinda obscure so I admit your interpretation could be more accurate. For the record, if indeed it was the original vaga mining op that petitioned him, then that's just pathetic and well worth a (symbolic, since they quit corp) wardec. Might want to explain that to the gm aswell in a counter-petition so they'll hopefully get a slap on their wrists as well.
Baka Lakadaka Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2009.07.22 14:57:00 - [16] That's the way I read it - I hope I got it right ______________________ Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University. Now Recruiting.
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2009.07.22 15:07:00 - [17] In order to clarify. The Vaga just put the idea in my head. But, if I run across them again they will get a taste of their own medicine. Futhermore, the bumping was not random. It was only done to those that were suspected macros. I.E. having auto reject convo., not saying anything in local when bumped etc. or to those that need get a life(logged in 23hrs a day mining in same system) and running a macro then trying to hide it by sending petetion to CCP about the bumping. Either way the bumping will continue until I get a response from CCP about this subject not in the EULA. If, their response is to ban/suspend me for bumping some macro-miners. Then, so be it. 4X accts.=$720 per year they will no longer get from me when I let my accts. go dormant. ANY GM can post here answers to the following: A) Do you condone macro-mining? B) Where I the EULA is bumping not allowed? C) What will be your "futher repercussion" if I keep bumping suspect macro-miners that you allow to operate indiscriminately after no actions taken on your part when notified about them?
Ira Black	Posted - 2009.07.22 15:12:00 - [18] The guys from the mining-op should have never started bumping. High-sec is "free". Claiming an asteroid belt is BS. My corp has a lot of miningops. There's always a non-corp Hulk zipping through the Orca's. Who cares. Enough ore to go around. If they wanted a belt of their own they should get into 0.0 and be prepared to fight for it in the true way.


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