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Shameless Avenger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
50
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 20:25:00 -
[121] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Its the fact that the community is abnormally small.
Plenty of communities that are small IRL have large representations in EVE. Hispanic communities don't.
You also may be surprised to learn that I'm half Latino and spent one third of my life living in various countries in South America.
Also, your average latino has much better english than your average american speaks has any foreign language. There really isn't much need for localization. In fact, most latino gamers I know refuse to play on localized clients, because translations tend to be ****.
Now you try the Zimmerman approach "I'm not racist because I'm Latino too"... meh If you don't want Hispanics to have their client that's your choice. But don't come here saying that there are more Japanese players than Hispanics players. That's just pure BS. We exist, we are here and we are quite a few. Do not belittle us.... expect us. |

Large Collidable Object
morons.
1535
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 21:34:00 -
[122] - Quote
Imho it's not just the size of a language community but how widespread the use of English as a second language in a given country is.
As most of those who had the pleasure of reading some of my posts will have noticed by now, English isn't my first language either, but I hardly know anyone speaking the same native language as I do playing the game on a localized client.
It wasn't the case when I was a child, but today, kids start learning English in elementary school and it's quite easy to learn because it's basically a less complicated language within the same language family.
Now for spanish, french or any other romance or slavic language speakers, English is way harder to learn and far less people speak and write it fluently, thus these communities would profit way more from localized versions. You know... morons. |

Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1616
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 01:37:00 -
[123] - Quote
Shameless Avenger wrote:
Now you try the Zimmerman approach "I'm not racist because I'm Latino too"... meh If you don't want Hispanics to have their client that's your choice. But don't come here saying that there are more Japanese players than Hispanics players. That's just pure BS. We exist, we are here and we are quite a few. Do not belittle us.... expect us.
You're one dumb ************, aren't you.
Calling my stance racist now? Jesus H Christ this is pointless. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
125
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 01:40:00 -
[124] - Quote
Shameless Avenger wrote:bongsmoke wrote: for those actually able to afford/use a computer. In the time it took you to write that troll, your country lost 10,000 IT jobs to India. :P Sad but true. 
BTW it's Mandarin, English, Hindustani, and then spanish. If anyone was curious. |

Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1617
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 02:45:00 -
[125] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Shameless Avenger wrote:bongsmoke wrote: for those actually able to afford/use a computer. In the time it took you to write that troll, your country lost 10,000 IT jobs to India. :P Sad but true.  BTW it's Mandarin, English, Hindustani, and then spanish. If anyone was curious.
Hindi has fewer speakers than Spanish - by a massive margin on a native language basis, and by ~10 million total. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |

Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
48
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 07:36:00 -
[126] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:Shameless Avenger wrote:bongsmoke wrote: for those actually able to afford/use a computer. In the time it took you to write that troll, your country lost 10,000 IT jobs to India. :P Sad but true.  BTW it's Mandarin, English, Hindustani, and then spanish. If anyone was curious. Hindi has fewer speakers than Spanish - by a massive margin on a native language basis, and by ~10 million total.
Still, this discussion is sterile.
I expect CCP has precise information regarding the number of accounts created by country.
And I also expect that the number of Spanish accounts, plus the number of accounts from other Spanish-speaking countries do not amount for the necessary income to justify the Spanish game client.
Perhaps Dust would change that? The FPS genre has always been extremely popular in Spain, and perhaps it will trigger some curiosity towards CCP's intellectual property.
Still, your average Call of Duty player is used to translated and dubbed games and might not react adequately to a client in English, German and Russian. |

Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
222
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 07:51:00 -
[127] - Quote
As a Swede I've never seen the appeal of localized clients. I would find a EVE client where everything, from ship and item names to mission details in Swedish to be incredibly... corny.
The mere thought sends shivers down my spine. Space. It seems to go on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |

Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
929
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 07:52:00 -
[128] - Quote
CCP hasn't even localized the client into Icelandic
heh eh |

Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1617
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 08:06:00 -
[129] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:Shameless Avenger wrote:bongsmoke wrote: for those actually able to afford/use a computer. In the time it took you to write that troll, your country lost 10,000 IT jobs to India. :P Sad but true.  BTW it's Mandarin, English, Hindustani, and then spanish. If anyone was curious. Hindi has fewer speakers than Spanish - by a massive margin on a native language basis, and by ~10 million total. Still, this discussion is sterile. I expect CCP has precise information regarding the number of accounts created by country. And I also expect that the number of Spanish accounts, plus the number of accounts from other Spanish-speaking countries do not amount for the necessary income to justify the Spanish game client. Perhaps Dust would change that? The FPS genre has always been extremely popular in Spain, and perhaps it will trigger some curiosity towards CCP's intellectual property. Still, your average Call of Duty player is used to translated and dubbed games and might not react adequately to a client in English, German and Russian.
Oh, I agree - like I stated earlier in this thread, a spanish localization would be essentially pointless.
There aren't enough spanish speakers in EVE, and latino gamers are very used to playing games in english. that, and translations into spanish tend to be awful.
I was merely correcting a factual error. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |

Zanulf Steelfist
Clandroid Gaming Black Mesa Complex
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 08:42:00 -
[130] - Quote
+1 For Spanish client, hell i would even help with the translation
Spaniards by nature dont speak very good english (i blame the education system on this) and i know of many people here (Spain) that dont play because of this.
Yes the transation would be cheese as hell but it would actually get CCP a bunch more subs.
Activando el motor de curvatura suena muy bien :D
Yo creo que si CCP nos lo preguntase amablemente podiramos ayudar con la traduccion. |

Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
929
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 08:55:00 -
[131] - Quote
Zanulf Steelfist wrote:Yo creo que si CCP nos lo preguntase amablemente podiramos ayudar con la traduccion.
holy conjugation batman eh |

Polaris Lumine
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 09:21:00 -
[132] - Quote
The OP could at least have said Por Favor! |

Zanulf Steelfist
Clandroid Gaming Black Mesa Complex
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 09:21:00 -
[133] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Zanulf Steelfist wrote:Yo creo que si CCP nos lo preguntase amablemente podiramos ayudar con la traduccion. holy conjugation batman
Jelly of my awesome language skillz?? |

Tenchi Sal
Dust Bunnies 514
95
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 12:52:00 -
[134] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Shameless Avenger wrote:
Now you try the Zimmerman approach "I'm not racist because I'm Latino too"... meh If you don't want Hispanics to have their client that's your choice. But don't come here saying that there are more Japanese players than Hispanics players. That's just pure BS. We exist, we are here and we are quite a few. Do not belittle us.... expect us.
You're one dumb ************, aren't you. Calling my stance racist now? Jesus H Christ this is pointless.
i agree. theres no reason why you cant give hispanics their own client. it doesnt effect any other player who uses other localized clients. a player who wants the client in english will still have their client in english.
in fact most of the people against it seem to be quite racist. you can go through and see a lot of stereotypical, comments on here when people are just trying to get a client localized. |

Shameless Avenger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 07:56:00 -
[135] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote: Calling my stance racist now? Jesus H Christ this is pointless.
Yup I call you racist. Spanish Localization does not affect you or your game play, yet here you are advocating against it, spreading lies about the Hispanic population out of hatred and racism.
How many Hispanic players exist in game? Or more importantly... how many Hispanics *TRIED* the game and didn't subscribe because the lack of a Spanish Client? You don't know. Only CCP knows. You can only guess. You can say you don't know any. I'm telling you I know quite a few.
And again, the questions you keep evading... how many Japanese alliances you know? Yet there's a client for it. So, what's your problem?
And BTW... about Vera Cruz... the alliance influence map is wrong (here). If you were praising them because you thought they had the key to your ano (No joke, Test Alliance's back door entrance is a system called Y-2ANO), please check the ingame map because Vera Cruz doesn't hold that system, 99 Percent does. |

Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
223
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 08:01:00 -
[136] - Quote
Only - only - if they get their own server. Localized clients by default allows people who don't speak English to play the game; how do you expect these people to get along with the rest of the English-speaking international community that is EVE?
I don't want to be ransomed by legendary space pirate El Pollo Loco who doesn't speak English!
Jokes aside, separating and diving the player-base over localized clients is never a good idea. By only having a client in English you allow people from all nationalities to come together and understand each-other because the most basic form of English is required by all to even play the game. Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |

Shameless Avenger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 08:05:00 -
[137] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:Only - only - if they get their own server. Localized clients by default allows people who don't speak English to play the game; how do you expect these people to get along with the rest of the English-speaking international community that is EVE?
I don't want to be ransomed by legendary space pirate El Pollo Loco who doesn't speak English!
Jokes aside, separating and diving the player-base over localized clients is never a good idea.
You haven't been on Russian space haven't you?
Again, the same thing all over again... there are already multiple localized clients... russian, german, japanese... are you saying those were not a good idea? They are already there... nothing has broke because of it.
|

Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians Iberians.
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 08:07:00 -
[138] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:Only - only - if they get their own server. Localized clients by default allows people who don't speak English to play the game; how do you expect these people to get along with the rest of the English-speaking international community that is EVE?
I don't want to be ransomed by legendary space pirate El Pollo Loco who doesn't speak English!
Jokes aside, separating and diving the player-base over localized clients is never a good idea. I don't see the problem really. Localized clients just help an average non english fluent player to know what is what in the ingame menus or in the market.
But most people if not everyone can understand or write "money or pod kill" "how much" "20mill or die"
Even the mighty pirate "El pollo loco".
As I said, I don't care about a spanish client since I can manage myself quite well in english, but at least 2 friends of mine tried the game and left because it was in english.
Blame their lazyness or our schools but the fact is they would be playing if the game was translated to spanish.
|

Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
223
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 08:08:00 -
[139] - Quote
Shameless Avenger wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:Only - only - if they get their own server. Localized clients by default allows people who don't speak English to play the game; how do you expect these people to get along with the rest of the English-speaking international community that is EVE?
I don't want to be ransomed by legendary space pirate El Pollo Loco who doesn't speak English!
Jokes aside, separating and diving the player-base over localized clients is never a good idea. You haven't been on Russian space haven't you? Again, the same thing all over again... there are already multiple localized clients... russian, german, japanese... are you saying those were not a good idea? They are already there... nothing has broke because of it.
I think it has been made clear that in my personal opinion, any localized client is a bad idea.
a. When I think about a Swedish client, I want to /facedesk repeatedly due to how corny it would be.
b. Dividing and separating people is never a good idea.
Otrebla Utrigas wrote: As I said, I don't care about a spanish client since I can manage myself quite well in english, but at least 2 friends of mine tried the game and left because it was in english.
Blame their lazyness or our schools but the fact is they would be playing if the game was translated to spanish.
Now, I don't mean any offense or nothing, but do we really want/need those kinds of players? If you can't be bothered to try and learn English, in the international world of 2012, what can you really contribute?
Shameless Avenger wrote: PS: BTW... any pirate called El Pollo Loco must be flying a Zealot.
What about El Pollo Diablo? Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |

Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
957
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 08:28:00 -
[140] - Quote
This isn't merely about localizing the client. CCP would have to hire several Spanish-speaking GMs and community staff. They'd have to create Spanish forum sections and otherwise spend a substantial amount of time and money - this isn't something that can be done overnight. I also doubt that they'd want to promise anything because, well, CCP has a history with promises. eh |

Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1620
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 08:36:00 -
[141] - Quote
Shameless Avenger wrote: Yup I call you racist. Spanish Localization does not affect you or your game play, yet here you are advocating against it, spreading lies about the Hispanic population out of hatred and racism.
It absolutely affects my game play. You know why? Because it costs money and time, resources best spent improving the game. Good localization is not cheap.
Shameless Avenger wrote: How many Hispanic players exist in game? Or more importantly... how many Hispanics *TRIED* the game and didn't subscribe because the lack of a Spanish Client? You don't know. Only CCP knows. You can only guess. You can say you don't know any. I'm telling you I know quite a few.
I introduced several to EVE. They didn't quit because the game wasn't in spanish, they quit because they moved on with their lives. Four of them used to play WoW, and refused to play the Spanish client after using it for a few weeks. Why? Because the translation was meh, and the english client was what they were used to as well as provided a decent introduction to new english words to add to their vocabulary.
Shameless Avenger wrote: And again, the questions you keep evading... how many Japanese alliances you know? Yet there's a client for it. So, what's your problem?
Your average Japanese person has a much, much poorer grasp of European languages than your average Spanish speaker. The language gap is massive in that case, and a localized client is almost necessary.
Shameless Avenger wrote:And BTW... about Vera Cruz... the alliance influence map is wrong ( here). If you were praising them because you thought they had the key to your ano (No joke, Test Alliance's back door entrance is a system called Y-2ANO), please check the ingame map because Vera Cruz doesn't hold that system, 99 Percent does.
Trust me, I know who Vera Cruz are. We're currently screwing them in the ass. I'm pretty certain I have a significantly better grasp of the geopolitical situation in Fountain and Delve than you do, considering 95% of my playtime takes place there. Please don't attempt to educate me about it.
I was praising them because they are a large, cohesive group of primarily Brazilian gamers who actually managed to establish a half decent alliance. They put themselves in a position where they actually influence the game as a whole to some small degree. Only cohesive communities can do that. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |

Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
49
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 09:04:00 -
[142] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:This isn't merely about localizing the client. CCP would have to hire several Spanish-speaking GMs and community staff. They'd have to create Spanish forum sections and otherwise spend a substantial amount of time and money - this isn't something that can be done overnight. I also doubt that they'd want to promise anything because, well, CCP has a history with promises.
Exactly. The question is: would a Spanish client & support system grant CCP enough new subscriptions from Spanish-speaking countries?
I personally doubt it, as I am reasonable convinced (because of my own experience with family and friends) that EvE is not appealing enough for these target populations.
Others think that it would be profitable 100% precisely because of the same reasons: personal experience.
I must confess I'm in the same situation as Tor Gungnir: the Spanish client would seem so "cheesy" that I'd never, ever be able to play it with a straight face. I would keep the English one.
Actually, whenever I get the choice, I play games in their original versions, but for a few exceptions.
This said, please notice that 100% of the Spanish gaming community can interact in English to a certain degree. At the very least, good enough to ransom you, understand and share intel on comms channels, and follow FC instructions.
It's not a matter of INTERACTING with the community.
It's just that, just like Germans, some Spaniards would prefer the client in Spanish, as it feels more comfortable and familiar.
Would Germans stop playing without a German client? Obviously not. Do some of them prefer the German client? Surely.
It's the same with Spaniards. |

Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
224
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 09:25:00 -
[143] - Quote
800mm Repeterande Artilleri II
Okay, some terms would be kinda cool in Swedish.
Adaptivt Os+Ñrbarhets F+ñlt II
Then, you have those that wouldn't be cool.
/facedesk Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |

Shameless Avenger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 09:39:00 -
[144] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote: It absolutely affects my game play. You know why? Because it costs money and time, resources best spent improving the game. Good localization is not cheap.
Stop talking about things you know nothing about. The more you do that, the more racist you look.
* What's the salary per hour of an English to Spanish translator? You don't know. * How much text are we talking about (words, pages)? You don't know. * How much text per hour can a person translate? You don't know.
You know nothing sir... you know nothing about nothing.
Now, let me enlighten you. I have work doing translations from English to Spanish for years (5 years on ATT alone). The average salary is around $10 dollars an hour. Most of the work is done using an automatic translator software (one click). The translator (the human person) then sits with both texts and reads side by side, making a few corrections here and there. A whole stack of cellphone manuals can be translated in a few days with time to spare.
PS: ...and after all, what "improvements" are you talking about? The unified inventory? |

Shameless Avenger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 09:57:00 -
[145] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:This isn't merely about localizing the client. CCP would have to hire several Spanish-speaking GMs and community staff. They'd have to create Spanish forum sections and otherwise spend a substantial amount of time and money - this isn't something that can be done overnight. I also doubt that they'd want to promise anything because, well, CCP has a history with promises.
I disagree on the time and money thing because I've seen first hand how this is handled in corporate america. You don't hire a "Spanish only" customer rep. You hire a "bilingual" customer rep that can speak both English and Spanish. When there's a Spanish client on the Spanish queue, the bilingual guy gets it. When the Spanish queue is empty, he works on the English queue. Does he gets more salary? Maybe .25 cents an hour. I live in Florida, trust me, I know this.
On my last job, the customer care department had 15 people and they served English, Spanish, German, Russian, Cantonese, Arabic, French, Italian, Portuguese and there was a Hindu guy who spoke like 6 different India-specific languages (Hindi, Farsi and some others). Highest salary in the department, $11.50 bucks an hour. The contractors that cleaned the carpets made more money than the translators.
|

Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1621
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 09:57:00 -
[146] - Quote
Shameless Avenger wrote: * What's the salary per hour of an English to Spanish translator? You don't know.
For a professional? Quite a bit. I made some decent cash as a part time translator.
Shameless Avenger wrote: * How much text are we talking about (words, pages)? You don't know.
oh, I don't know, a whole damn MMO's worth?!?
Shameless Avenger wrote: * How much text per hour can a person translate? You don't know.
A ****** tanslation produced by a computer? A whole lot. An actual translation capturing everything that is said? Not very much, even for the best. A UN-style gist translation? It'll take about the same amount of time it took to write it originally.
Shameless Avenger wrote: You know nothing sir... you know nothing about nothing.
Or so you think.
Shameless Avenger wrote: Now, let me enlighten you. I have work doing translations from English to Spanish for years (5 years on ATT alone). The average salary is around $10 dollars an hour. Most of the work is done using an automatic translator software (one click). The translator (the human person) then sits with both texts and reads side by side, making a few corrections here and there. A whole stack of cellphone manuals can be translated in a few days with time to spare.
PS: ...and after all, what "improvements" are you talking about? The unified inventory?
Important part bolded. You were doing a ****** translation, even with you correcting automated translation errors.
Flow. Implied meaning. Puns. Style. All of these are utterly destroyed by automated translation, and just "correcting" one will NEVER bring them back. You have to write from the beginning of the page to the end and have a fluent grasp of both languages to produce a good translation. Otherwise the result is cheesy **** no one wants to read, which only conveys maybe 60-75% of what is actually said both literally and implicitly.
Just because you had a minimum wage desk jockey job monitoring an automated translation of a cell phone manual doesn't mean you have a damn clue about what goes into a real translation, much less localization. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |

Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
224
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 10:00:00 -
[147] - Quote
Shameless, you do your cause no good by waving the "Racist Card" around like a sword.
Just saying. Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |

Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1621
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 10:12:00 -
[148] - Quote
Shameless Avenger wrote: I disagree on the time and money thing because I've seen first hand how this is handled in corporate america. You don't hire a "Spanish only" customer rep. You hire a "bilingual" customer rep that can speak both English and Spanish. When there's a Spanish client on the Spanish queue, the bilingual guy gets it. When the Spanish queue is empty, he works on the English queue. Does he gets more salary? Maybe .25 cents an hour. I live in Florida, trust me, I know this.
Funny, my roommate worked in customer service when he started off in the gaming industry (he's a lot higher up now).
You know what they do when the customer service rep gets a petition in a language other than english that he's fluent in? They answer it in freaking english.
Why? Because if your employees are talking in languages you can't understand, you can't ensure they are meeting standards or even doing their jobs. It also can lead to legal liability.
Trust me, if they were going to have a team responding to petitions in a language, they'd hire a whole damn team fluent in said language, unless CCP is operating way outside the industry standard. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |

Shameless Avenger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 10:23:00 -
[149] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:Shameless, you do your cause no good by waving the "Racist Card" around like a sword. Just saying.
It is what it is mate.
Akirei Scytale wrote: Bla bla bla
Don't avoid the questions. "quite a bit" is not a dollar amount. "a whole damn worth" is not an amount of pages. You know nothing about translations sir. Nothing.
Akirei Scytale wrote: Just because you had a minimum wage desk jockey job monitoring an automated translation of a cell phone manual...
Negative, I was the team lead of the programming team who made the software to access the phone manuals from the sales booths (AKA the Kiosks), making 75k a year (still kinda crap salary for all the work I did). They were translating the content for my team's project, so I got stuck with supervising that sub-project as well. I also did the programming for the bilingual phone routing of both the IVR and the Predictive Calling (Interactive Voice Response, when you call them... Predictive Calling, when their collectors call you).
You never read any of the manuals whose translations I supervised, yet you criticize/belittle them. More proof you are acting out of racism and hate. Either that or you just love to troll and criticize things you know nothing about.
Akirei Scytale wrote: Funny, my roommate worked ....
"My roommate"... so you are a 20something year old college student with no idea how corporate america works. Come back to me when you have some years of experience in the field. |

Shameless Avenger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 10:27:00 -
[150] - Quote
bongsmoke wrote: Why cant spanish people learn english instead? Not that im against a spanish translation for those actually able to afford/use a computer.
...and some still say there's no racism in this thread. :\
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