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Low Sec travel taxi - smartbomb proofing them

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Sturmwolke Genyosha Legion	Posted - 2009.07.24 22:35:00 - [1] It's been a pet peeve of mine trying to find the best frigate class hull for running errands into lowsec. So, let's start by applying the requirements needed : * Frigate class hull * Able to evade 99% 2x-3x sensor boosted HIC without warp cloak trick i.e. sub 2.5sec alignment. * Able to withstand 2-3 large smartbomb cycles i.e. 4800-7200 raw damage. * Able to fit a T2 cloak I'd tested a Malediction build which lasted 2 cycles without popping, so interceptors are viable but still a bit fragile. Also tested a T1 Rifter build which EFT shows would survive 2 cycles, but SISI test popped it after 2 cycles. It turns out that the uneven shield resistances killed it as the smartbombing BS applied a mixture of EM damage (first) and Thermal damage (following). This was fixed by swapping out the heat shield amp for a magnetic shield amp Then I thought why not try with an AF? Out of the four races, Minmatar AFs are the fastest and most agile. So here's the build : [Jaguar, Low Sec SB Proof] Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I Local Hull Conversion Nanofiber Structure I Local Hull Conversion Nanofiber Structure I 1MN Afterburner II Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II Explosion Dampening Amplifier II Medium Shield Extender II 200mm Light 'Scout' Autocannon I, EMP S 200mm Light 'Scout' Autocannon I, EMP S 200mm Light 'Scout' Autocannon I, EMP S Improved Cloaking Device II Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I 2.6 sec align time 70%+ all round shield resist (at Lvl 2 Shield Compensation) lowest EHP at 8000 (Exp) Have yet to test this one, thoughts?
Joe Starbreaker The Fighting Republicans	Posted - 2009.07.24 22:43:00 - [2] I would assume the Amarr ones are the toughest, but the jaguar is probably the most agile. OTOH the shield extender may make you easier to target despite your agility... I suggest you run comparison tests of both Amarr and both Minmatar AFs. -/ the fighting republicans /-
Sturmwolke Genyosha Legion	Posted - 2009.07.25 00:27:00 - [3] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker I would assume the Amarr ones are the toughest, but the jaguar is probably the most agile. OTOH the shield extender may make you easier to target despite your agility... I suggest you run comparison tests of both Amarr and both Minmatar AFs. Sig radius comes up to 48m for the Jaguar, and assuming we're talking about a 1300mm HIC sensor, it takes 1.5 secs to lock. Margin of error is extremely narrow, so I'd say it can warp off most times before a HIC can lock onto it .. if not every time. All the Amarr AFs need the low slots for tank. So it's either lose tank for agility or vice-versa, not good The Wolf is agile, but it lacks the tank. All standard T1 frigates, including faction frigates lack enough tank. The Caldari AFs comes a very close second in terms of tank but it's less agile and has a bigger sig radius. I don't see any serious competition for the Jaguar, tbh. P.S If people are wondering about covert ops, it's too fragile. It's most vulnerable when exiting stations. A blockade runner works, but I want a frigate
Rastigan Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.07.25 00:37:00 - [4] Helios with a Damage control and a MSEII with hardeners and rigs = 10,000 EFT-HP on its lowest resist. It aligns slower than a AF , but its warp speed is faster. Cov-ops cloak of course makes life and scouting even easier.
Verlokiraptor All Around Research Inc Onslaught.	Posted - 2009.07.25 01:22:00 - [5] Edited by: Verlokiraptor on 25/07/2009 01:24:36 note that you'll have to decloak manually with the helios to activate the hardeners and DC, I'd reccomend keeping your scanner pointed at the gate and checking for BSs if you try that idea. Or warp to a point off the gate and remain cloaked if something is up. EDIT: On a helios with a DC but no plate, reinforced bulkheads 2 > eanm, if you don't mind the speed loss.
Sturmwolke Genyosha Legion	Posted - 2009.07.25 01:25:00 - [6] Originally by: Rastigan Helios with a Damage control and a MSEII with hardeners and rigs = 10,000 EFT-HP on its lowest resist. It aligns slower than a AF , but its warp speed is faster. Best I could do on EFT for the Helios [Helios, Low Sec Taxi] Damage Control II Micro K-Exhaust Core Augmentation Inertia Stabilizers II 1MN Afterburner II Medium Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I Feasible I guess, but the PG is just too tight. Active mods won't work for more than 1 cycle after you've cloaked, so it's definitely very vulnerable to lucky smartbomb timings. It's 4.3 sec align may also present less chance of survival when you exit a low sec station without an insta. I should've included passive mods into the build requirements in my first post. Mostly because I cba to remember to activate the modules when jumping between systems. It gets old pretty fast.
Kismo	Posted - 2009.07.25 07:32:00 - [7] Originally by: Sturmwolke Feasible I guess, but the PG is just too tight. Active mods won't work for more than 1 cycle after you've cloaked, so it's definitely very vulnerable to lucky smartbomb timings. It's 4.3 sec align may also present less chance of survival when you exit a low sec station without an insta. I should've included passive mods into the build requirements in my first post. Mostly because I cba to remember to activate the modules when jumping between systems. It gets old pretty fast. Just an FYI, but my Helios has survived through countless smartbombing bubble camps with just a MSE as a tank. Also, is it so much effort to remember to press "F1" for your cloak? Really?
Thercon Jair Minmatar Nex Exercitus Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.07.25 09:19:00 - [8] I'd get rid of the inertia stab on the jaguar fitting. While it is true that it provides you with a bigger bonus to the align speed than a third nanofiber, the fact that the inertia stab bloats your signature may make a third nano more feasable. Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar!
Sturmwolke Genyosha Legion	Posted - 2009.07.25 14:29:00 - [9] Originally by: Kismo Just an FYI, but my Helios has survived through countless smartbombing bubble camps with just a MSE as a tank. Also, is it so much effort to remember to press "F1" for your cloak? Really? Good to know it survived. No, if I'm running a covert ops, I cloak as per usual practice. I'm just not a fan of active tanking modules (for this purpose). You'll never know when you'll get caught with your pants down. You can certainly install active hardeners on the Jaguar which will bump Exp EHP > 10K. Installing a thermal T2 shield rig will bring the EHP to 10K all-around. It will survive 4 smartbomb cycles or survive 4 smartbombing BS as long as you can gtfo before the next cycle comes. "Only the paranoid survives" - Andrew S. Grove
steveid Agraphobia	Posted - 2009.07.25 14:50:00 - [10] just fit a stiletto with 2 med shield extenders, mwd and an istab and turn on your autopilot while using a coin to hold down f1. 13.5AU warp, instaspeed and align and it'll just range anyone quick enough to get a point and warp when at range. Also has enough hp to withstand a serious smartbombing.
Mystical Dawn	Posted - 2009.07.25 14:53:00 - [11] Originally by: Kismo Also, is it so much effort to remember to press "F1" for your cloak? Really? Problem with smartbombing camps isn't the situation when you leave the gate... It's when you land AT THE GATE...
Sturmwolke Genyosha Legion	Posted - 2009.07.25 15:00:00 - [12] Originally by: Thercon Jair I'd get rid of the inertia stab on the jaguar fitting. While it is true that it provides you with a bigger bonus to the align speed than a third nanofiber, the fact that the inertia stab bloats your signature may make a third nano more feasable. Actually, the 0.2 sec align time advantage over a third nano more than outweighs it's sig bloom. My Excel formula shows a 0.05 sec reduction in locking time for a 1300mm sensor from 46m to 50m sig radius. So you have a net gain 0.15 sec reduction.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.07.25 17:59:00 - [13] Edited by: Sokratesz on 25/07/2009 17:59:45 Hookbill has pretty epic hp for a frig.
Nora Ortega	Posted - 2009.07.25 19:13:00 - [14] Originally by: Sokratesz Edited by: Sokratesz on 25/07/2009 17:59:45 Hookbill has pretty epic hp for a frig. [Caldari Navy Hookbill, New Setup 5] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Improved Cloaking Device II [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Core Defence Field Extender I Lowest resist is Exp, and it has 12k EHP against it. Align time of 2.3 seconds as well. 5400 shield HP resists of 61, 58, 58, 50.
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2009.07.25 20:45:00 - [15] Originally by: Nora Ortega Originally by: Sokratesz Edited by: Sokratesz on 25/07/2009 17:59:45 Hookbill has pretty epic hp for a frig. [Caldari Navy Hookbill, New Setup 5] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Improved Cloaking Device II [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Core Defence Field Extender I Lowest resist is Exp, and it has 12k EHP against it. Align time of 2.3 seconds as well. 5400 shield HP resists of 61, 58, 58, 50. Could throw 2x nanos and 1x istab in lows to further bring down align time. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
Sturmwolke Genyosha Legion	Posted - 2009.07.25 22:53:00 - [16] Originally by: Nora Ortega Lowest resist is Exp, and it has 12k EHP against it. Align time of 2.3 seconds as well. 5400 shield HP resists of 61, 58, 58, 50. You can get an almost identical EHP setup with the Jaguar with 2x Med Regolith, plus you wouldn't have to deal with the PG issue needing Shield Upgrades 5. Both are about the same EHP-wise with an AB setup. One thing the Hookbill does very well however is the align time. Even with the increased sig, the net reduction is still better than the Jaguar's. So, yeah, I guess this looks more attractive vs the Jaguar
Kismo	Posted - 2009.07.26 16:51:00 - [17] Originally by: Mystical Dawn Originally by: Kismo Also, is it so much effort to remember to press "F1" for your cloak? Really? Problem with smartbombing camps isn't the situation when you leave the gate... It's when you land AT THE GATE... Really??!?!?!?!!? REALLLY?!?!?!?!?!?! OMG I DIDNT KNOW! The cool thing about a covops cloak is that they can't time the smartbombs to your arrival via d-scan. I would not consider any solution that didn't have a covops cloak, and furthermore I wouldn't feel especially compelled for much more additional protection.
IAmTheDanceCommander	Posted - 2009.07.26 16:57:00 - [18] Learn what the D scanner is for and dont be such a failure
Noskill McCheese Minmatar	Posted - 2009.07.26 23:13:00 - [19] Edited by: Noskill McCheese on 26/07/2009 23:14:07 Stabber. 3x istab 2x large shield extender mwd 1x hornet ec-300 :P great lowsec workhorse when you're too lazy to scout.

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