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Hulk BPO - ISK Printing Machine - Or not?

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Mova B	Posted - 2009.07.25 20:55:00 - [1] Edited by: Mova B on 25/07/2009 21:00:00 Originally by: Fartislartbast For all the number-crunchers out there, here's a couple of build-price comparisons: ME:30 Hulk v max-run BPC ME:20 Skiff v max-run BPC Material prices are based on the average prices of the top 100 sell orders at all 4 main hubs on 5th June 2009 There you have it. Hulk 50.8 M ISK build cost. Sell price is around 90-100 M ISK at most cases. Question is, can you beat Hulk BPO with 10 invention/manufacturing slots? EDIT: The BPO was sold with 100 B ISK, and it will take quite some time to start making profit with it...
Weight What	Posted - 2009.07.25 21:12:00 - [2] If there is a point, by all means make it. ----------------------------------------------- Annonymous, trading as "Weight What".
Alex555	Posted - 2009.07.25 21:27:00 - [3] if u show me how u make hulk at 50 mln i can gurantee that i will buy out any ipo u launch
Mova B	Posted - 2009.07.25 21:29:00 - [4] Edited by: Mova B on 25/07/2009 21:29:45 Originally by: Alex555 if u show me how u make hulk at 50 mln i can gurantee that i will buy out any ipo u launch Well Fartislartbast, just claimed so at Sell forum while selling his Hulk BPO with 100 B ISK... EDIT: In OP, there is links to his calculations.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2009.07.25 21:31:00 - [5] Originally by: Mova B Hulk 50.8 M ISK build cost. Sell price is around 90-100 M ISK at most cases. Oh no, wait until the T2 BPO whiners hear about this one. Hate Farmers? Click Here
Jotobar	Posted - 2009.07.26 05:30:00 - [6] no (i think)
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.07.26 05:39:00 - [7] "Seller oils and wets his product". "Buyers believe in the seller" Hey, this is like... 10,000 years old news at 11! - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.07.26 05:41:00 - [8] Also: Seller: "this thing of mine is SO FREAKING GOOD......" "... that I am parting it off me". Makes sense. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Jotobar	Posted - 2009.07.26 05:48:00 - [9] nice, that guy that posted jiberish in that other thread. listen to him.
Selene D'Celeste Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six	Posted - 2009.07.26 06:12:00 - [10] Edited by: Selene D''Celeste on 26/07/2009 06:13:25 Originally by: voogru Originally by: Mova B Hulk 50.8 M ISK build cost. Sell price is around 90-100 M ISK at most cases. Oh no, wait until the T2 BPO whiners hear about this one. You're ... alive? Haven't seen you in ages voogru.
Taua Roqa Minmatar Planet Roqa	Posted - 2009.07.26 06:51:00 - [11] it's just NOT fair, why SHOULD i *MINE* veld ALL day LONG when a T2BPO owner can MAKE INSANE profits?!! CCP should remove t2BPOS!!!
Alex555	Posted - 2009.07.26 07:07:00 - [12] hulk bpo is a thing to have :) no doubts here but talking about making profit with it is a silly thing one is eager to pay 100 bln isk (crazy amount really)! i dont think that a person who is ready to pay so much is thinking about making profits. he is already making it :) for me it was always a big fun to read threads where the profitability of hulk bpo was discussed :) it is not for profit, though u can make one, it is for the sake of owing one :)
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.07.26 11:59:00 - [13] Originally by: Alex555 hulk bpo is a thing to have :) no doubts here but talking about making profit with it is a silly thing one is eager to pay 100 bln isk (crazy amount really)! i dont think that a person who is ready to pay so much is thinking about making profits. he is already making it :) for me it was always a big fun to read threads where the profitability of hulk bpo was discussed :) it is not for profit, though u can make one, it is for the sake of owing one :) I understood this feeling when I played my first MUDs. And then my first MMOs. But now, after a decade, I can't feel the "epic feeling" for having the specific game "gasm items" any more and thus I work more on the meta-gaming side. Maybe it's the pixellated, intended cathartical ascension to "being is more than having"? - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2009.07.26 12:27:00 - [14] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Maybe it's the pixellated, intended cathartical ascension to "being is more than having"? What about doing? It is a freaking game you know.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.07.26 12:31:00 - [15] I am having my more than fair part of doing. Incoming audits and more audits. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Mova B	Posted - 2009.07.26 16:58:00 - [16] Still I haven't got answer to my original question.. Will 10 invention/manufacturing runs beat single ME30 Hulk BPO?
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries New Eden Research	Posted - 2009.07.26 17:23:00 - [17] Originally by: Mova B Still I haven't got answer to my original question.. Will 10 invention/manufacturing runs beat single ME30 Hulk BPO? Yes, especially if you use the right decryptors.
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2009.07.26 18:05:00 - [18] Originally by: Breaker77 Originally by: Mova B Still I haven't got answer to my original question.. Will 10 invention/manufacturing runs beat single ME30 Hulk BPO? Yes, especially if you use the right decryptors. That is not really the issue. If hulk prices stay fixed and you can invent enough BPCs to make more profit than a hulk BPO then yes, but eventually the increased supply will drive down prices to the point that it is barely profitable to invent. Hulk BPO owners have a 23 million isk advantage over inventors plus the cost of invention (if the numbers in the OP link are correct and they stay fairly steady) which translates into an additional 25-30M per day in profits not available to inventors. (Remember there is nothing stopping a BPO owner from inventing also, although they would probably invent something else so they don't end up killing their own profits.) A return of less than 1% per month does seem pretty lousy, but it is their money and there are some people that believe that they will be always able to sell it at a decent profit. However, I sold my tech2 BPOs years ago and invested in businesses with a better growth potential and I'm not complaining.
Haraukiae Youik	Posted - 2009.07.26 18:19:00 - [19] Originally by: Mova B Edited by: Mova B on 25/07/2009 21:16:59 Originally by: Fartislartbast For all the number-crunchers out there, here's a couple of build-price comparisons: ME:30 Hulk v max-run BPC ME:20 Skiff v max-run BPC Material prices are based on the average prices of the top 100 sell orders at all 4 main hubs on 5th June 2009 There you have it. Hulk 50.8 M ISK build cost. Sell price is around 90-100 M ISK at most cases. Question is, can you beat Hulk BPO with 10 invention/manufacturing slots? EDIT: The BPO was sold with 100 B ISK, and it will take quite some time to start making profit with it... You can forget about invention. That was just a sop to quiet the masses of players who don't work for nul sec corps which CCP has been propping up since this failed nul sec fiasco started. Anyone remember solo gatecamps? Anyone remember being able to go into nul sec without having to grease the palms of corp vandals?
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries New Eden Research	Posted - 2009.07.26 19:21:00 - [20] Originally by: Claire Voyant but eventually the increased supply will drive down prices to the point that it is barely profitable to invent. Thats the one things goons are good for, increasing demand.
Alex555	Posted - 2009.07.26 19:36:00 - [21] Originally by: Mova B Still I haven't got answer to my original question.. Will 10 invention/manufacturing runs beat single ME30 Hulk BPO? in terms of margin profit per single hulk - NO in terms of overall potential profit - YES
Alex555	Posted - 2009.07.26 19:38:00 - [22] can any1 give me a link to an auction please? wanna see how it was
Jovialmadness	Posted - 2009.07.26 20:21:00 - [23] it is an isk printing machine. aren't you mad you dont have one? Quote: As a side note, i liken capacitor to blood. Without blood, nothing can function in the body. I do NOT like being a race that bleeds quicker than anyone else. yes, i am an alt..Jovial Quote:
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.07.26 20:24:00 - [24] It really used to be when Hulks were 500M a pop. Producing 10 a week at 450M profit, for 4.5B per week profit.
Mova B	Posted - 2009.07.26 22:37:00 - [25] Edited by: Mova B on 26/07/2009 22:37:40 Originally by: cosmoray It really used to be when Hulks were 500M a pop. Producing 10 a week at 450M profit, for 4.5B per week profit. 650-700 M in 2006. EDIT: This was in minmatar regions back then.
Steve Thomas	Posted - 2009.07.26 23:41:00 - [26] Edited by: Steve Thomas on 26/07/2009 23:43:03 Edited by: Steve Thomas on 26/07/2009 23:42:36 Edited by: Steve Thomas on 26/07/2009 23:42:13 Edited by: Steve Thomas on 26/07/2009 23:41:39 Originally by: Haraukiae Youik Originally by: Mova B Anyone remember solo gatecamps? Anyone remember being able to go into nul sec without having to grease the palms of corp vandals? Remember when at the Average peak server load was less than 1 person per 2-3 star systems. today when I loged in it was (including W space) greater than 6 per star system, and when the expansion hits it will probably be hovering somewhere between 8-12 per. Hell if it was not T2 you would be whineplaying about how the mega aliance fleets of Super caps have locked you out of Nosec. **. . . . . . . .**[/i] Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence.
Taua Roqa Minmatar Junqtion	Posted - 2009.07.27 08:32:00 - [27] Originally by: cosmoray It really used to be when Hulks were 500M a pop. Producing 10 a week at 450M profit, for 4.5B per week profit. i'd have thought that surely the materials also were very high cost to make them or something....450m profit per is sick lol
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.07.27 09:47:00 - [28] Originally by: Taua Roqa Originally by: cosmoray It really used to be when Hulks were 500M a pop. Producing 10 a week at 450M profit, for 4.5B per week profit. i'd have thought that surely the materials also were very high cost to make them or something....450m profit per is sick lol Not if you think about where the bottleneck is. It used to be the finite number of BPOs; there were not enough (active) BPOs to use all the moon minerals being produced, therefore the BPOs were the production bottleneck and the BPO owners got most of the profit. Now with invention, moon mins are the bottleneck, therefore the moon owners get most of the profit.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.27 12:03:00 - [29] Originally by: Mova B Still I haven't got answer to my original question.. Will 10 invention/manufacturing runs beat single ME30 Hulk BPO? Simple: 1) Take 100 billions 2) buy R&D alts 3) buy GTC for the R&D alts 4) produce 100 hulks day The key point is having the 100 billions to start with.
Hieronimus Rex Minmatar Infinitus Sapientia	Posted - 2009.07.31 08:35:00 - [30] I think you make like 30mil a day so around 900mil a month, a little under 1%. Pretty terrible IMO.
Mova B	Posted - 2009.07.31 12:35:00 - [31] How many years and runs it will take to start gaining profit with 100 B ISK Hulk BPO? Something like 9 years with 40 million profit on each?
Hieronimus Rex Minmatar Infinitus Sapientia	Posted - 2009.07.31 14:51:00 - [32] Originally by: Mova B How many years and runs it will take to start gaining profit with 100 B ISK Hulk BPO? Something like 9 years with 40 million profit on each? or 1.5 days? Buy the BPO for 100bil, build and sell one hulk, sell the BPO. BAM 40mil profit....
Saehta Sigillum Militum Xpisti Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.07.31 14:56:00 - [33] unless you were the only one dumb enough to pay 100b for it chances are there is someone equal or dumber though
Mova B	Posted - 2009.07.31 20:49:00 - [34] Originally by: Hieronimus Rex Originally by: Mova B How many years and runs it will take to start gaining profit with 100 B ISK Hulk BPO? Something like 9 years with 40 million profit on each? or 1.5 days? Buy the BPO for 100bil, build and sell one hulk, sell the BPO. BAM 40mil profit.... Was it you? Can anyone calculate how long it will take to gain profits with that BPO ME/PE details and those build costs and let's say that sell price is 95 M ISK. Because I think that the buyer was eather idiot or just collector.
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries New Eden Research	Posted - 2009.07.31 21:13:00 - [35] Lets go conserative on the numbers 25 mil profit per ship and 4 ships a week thats 100 million a week So 100 weeks or just shy of 2 years, which is what the return on a lot of T2 BPOs is.
SeismicForce Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.07.31 22:27:00 - [36] Your hulk from the bpo makes 40 mil profit. Assuming an invented hulk only makes 20 mil profit. You can build one ship at a time = 40 mil, I can build 10 ships at a time = 200 mil. Who wins? Originally by: Allisie In a recent interview, a dev mentioned that ships and skills cause lag and will be removed in EVE 2.
Valeria Crossroads Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.07.31 22:37:00 - [37] Originally by: SeismicForce Your hulk from the bpo makes 40 mil profit. Assuming an invented hulk only makes 20 mil profit. You can build one ship at a time = 40 mil, I can build 10 ships at a time = 200 mil. Who wins? That's flawed, cause if you own a bpo it does not exclude you doing invention too. So in your example a bpo owner doing invention can make 220 mil. My bpc shop: click here for stock and prices. Works in game too.
SeismicForce Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.07.31 22:44:00 - [38] Originally by: Valeria Crossroads That's flawed, cause if you own a bpo it does not exclude you doing invention too. So in your example a bpo owner doing invention can make 220 mil. Quiet boss, that wasn't the op's question Even if you own a bpo, invention will always bring more profit as you can build more. Originally by: Allisie In a recent interview, a dev mentioned that ships and skills cause lag and will be removed in EVE 2.
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2009.07.31 23:19:00 - [39] All the BPO lets you do is build one ship cheaper and faster then one Invented BPC. How a Hulk is worth 100b now is beyond me, in fact any BPO in which a run equals 1 unit is stupidly over priced now. Ammo on the other hand... that's a different story, but we're talking the Hulk. I guess you really need to work out, instead of spending 100b on the BPO, what if you spend 100b on invention materials for the Hulk.. At a 50% failure rate, you'd lose 50b. But you'd also have thousands of 5 run Hulk BPCs. Now you can build at maximum speed above and beyond the BPO holder, hell a single Character can build 11 at a time. An entire account can build 33. The only difference here is when do you want your ISK, sooner or later. Sooner, you do the invention, later, you buy the BPO. Because while you burned up 100B on invention you'd need to sell 5,000 Hulks (20mil profit each). At 33 a day you're recovery time is 152 days. I don't know how much 100b will get you in invention material so it's hard to know how many 5run BPCs you'll get. If it's 1,000, then you break even, Any more then 1,000 and it's all profit. Amarr for Life
bow locks UK Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.08.03 10:57:00 - [40] You pay a huge premium for the honour of buying from Fart. It is a premium worth paying.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.08.03 18:19:00 - [41] Originally by: Hieronimus Rex Originally by: Mova B How many years and runs it will take to start gaining profit with 100 B ISK Hulk BPO? Something like 9 years with 40 million profit on each? or 1.5 days? Buy the BPO for 100bil, build and sell one hulk, sell the BPO. BAM 40mil profit.... I doubt that would even cover the contract fees.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.08.03 18:21:00 - [42] Originally by: Breaker77 Lets go conserative on the numbers 25 mil profit per ship and 4 ships a week thats 100 million a week So 100 weeks or just shy of 2 years, which is what the return on a lot of T2 BPOs is. 100 weeks @ 100M/week is 10,000M = 10 billion. Try 1000 weeks.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive	Posted - 2009.08.03 18:40:00 - [43] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Breaker77 Lets go conserative on the numbers 25 mil profit per ship and 4 ships a week thats 100 million a week So 100 weeks or just shy of 2 years, which is what the return on a lot of T2 BPOs is. 100 weeks @ 100M/week is 10,000M = 10 billion. Try 1000 weeks. 19 years?? --Vel Experience is what you get right after you need it.
Billia Little Fuzzy Creatures of Mayhem and Destruction Emergence.	Posted - 2009.08.03 21:28:00 - [44] The main thing everyone is missing, is the fact that in a year you can resell the BPO for the same price you bought it from, So it isn't like ur using up the BPO, so technically ur making a profit from the moment u buy it.
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries New Eden Research	Posted - 2009.08.03 21:55:00 - [45] Originally by: Malcanis 100 weeks @ 100M/week is 10,000M = 10 billion. Try 1000 weeks. math failure... Thats why I stay away from T2 BPOs Goes to show you if it sounds to good to be true it probably is
Anaki Morosu	Posted - 2009.08.04 02:01:00 - [46] The long time-scale introduces great risk in the form of the rules of the game changing (new ships being introduced, for example) that further erode your margins and/or volume.
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.08.04 03:41:00 - [47] Payback calculation. ME30 Hulk build cost = about 50M +/- 2M Sale = 90-100M Profit = 45M Build time = 1day 3.2 hrs Hulks built per year in station = 310 Profit per year = 310 x 45M Profit per year = 13.95B Payback time = 100B (cost of BPO) / 13.95 Payback = 7 years and 2 months Not a good payback!!! well at least anymore!!

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