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How cheap rigs change everything

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Stil Harkonnen	Posted - 2009.07.27 22:29:00 - [31] Edited by: Stil Harkonnen on 27/07/2009 22:29:45 tl;dr the rig changes are gonna make minmatar uber cause obviously minmatar ships must either be the only ships to fit rigs on or they're the only ones who benefit from the rigs. nobody else is gonna get benefit. LOL JK HAHAHAHAHAHAHA but i'm sure i can get creative with thoraxes and vexors to make uber ships too. just cause minmatar gets faster and even more range and more tank doesn't mean other ships don't get more gank and tank and speed and such EDIT: spelling and page 2
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.07.27 22:39:00 - [32] Quote: Other than being a buff for T1 cruisers in general, what I'm finding is that they're especially a buff for buffer shield tanks, ie, Minmatar. Actually, quite the contrary. Buffer shield tanks already have cheap rigging options compared to armor buffers, making them available to armor buffers as well doesnt really count as a buff. Quote: Am I wrong in thinking that LSE II tank with 3 x extenders is superior to 1600mm plate with 3 x trimarks on a T1 cruiser? Yes, quite wrong. Not only does the plate setup gains much more EHP per rig, also it doesnt melt that ridiculously quick to FOTM lazorz.
Gurney H	Posted - 2009.07.27 22:56:00 - [33] Edited by: Gurney H on 27/07/2009 22:58:35 Originally by: Omara Otawan Quote: Other than being a buff for T1 cruisers in general, what I'm finding is that they're especially a buff for buffer shield tanks, ie, Minmatar. Actually, quite the contrary. Buffer shield tanks already have cheap rigging options compared to armor buffers, making them available to armor buffers as well doesnt really count as a buff. Quote: Am I wrong in thinking that LSE II tank with 3 x extenders is superior to 1600mm plate with 3 x trimarks on a T1 cruiser? Yes, quite wrong. Not only does the plate setup gains much more EHP per rig, also it doesnt melt that ridiculously quick to FOTM lazorz. True, lazors are FOTM... but they won't be forever, and since neuts are becoming more and more standard, that might hasten the end of Amarr popularity. Also, for the cheap rigs already existing, like I said, they kinda suck. People don't armor rig with resists, they rig with trimarks. The difference between extender rigs and resist rigs is pretty big, as big as the existing price difference. Either way, I'm not saying that armor tanks are going the way of the dinosaur. My main point is that shield tanks will become much, much more popular. Actually my main point was that T1 cruisers will be much more viable as PvP ships because the rigs will help remove key weaknesses, such as limited range, speed, or tank. Edit - To respond to your edit, again, I'm aware that people rig their T1 ships now. However, now everyone will rig their T1 ships, not just wealthy players looking to slum it in a T1 ship.
Ecky X	Posted - 2009.07.27 23:23:00 - [34] How about a "Stabber" Omen? Cheap anc. current routers should make the ship less of a nightmare to fit. Cheap cap rigs don't screw up your fitting and make the ship not capdead in 30 seconds.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.07.27 23:32:00 - [35] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 27/07/2009 23:34:51 Originally by: Gurney H Also, for the cheap rigs already existing, like I said, they kinda suck. People don't armor rig with resists, they rig with trimarks. The difference between extender rigs and resist rigs is pretty big, as big as the existing price difference. Not true, the difference is damn small, making the resist rigs actually the much better choice imo. Hurricane with DC2, 2x LSE and 3x extender rigs: 49k EHP (and huuuuuuge EM-resist hole) Hurricane with DC2, 2x LSE and em/therm/kin resist rigs: 46k EHP (decent resist cross-board). If we take logistic ships into account, extenders suck tbh.
Duke Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.07.27 23:33:00 - [36] Hooray HACs and BCs will be even more awesome.
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.07.27 23:52:00 - [37] Typically you get the best result using 1 rig to plug any gaping resist holes and then the rest extenders. If your resists are mostly uniform then extenders all the way. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
4THELULZ	Posted - 2009.07.27 23:57:00 - [38] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Typically you get the best result using 1 rig to plug any gaping resist holes and then the rest extenders. If your resists are mostly uniform then extenders all the way. Pretty much what I prefer to do. EFT EHP figures are all fine until someone starts blasting that 10% resist hole.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.07.27 23:58:00 - [39] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 28/07/2009 00:01:48 Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Typically you get the best result using 1 rig to plug any gaping resist holes and then the rest extenders. If your resists are mostly uniform then extenders all the way. Problem is shield resists are anything but uniform, plugging the EM hole seems nice until you realize its still wide-open to the popular thermal damage. As far as armor is concerned, 3x trimark is the best option. But its all moot with the current trend to remote-repair, resists are better than pure EHP.
Wideen Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.07.28 00:11:00 - [40] Has anyone considered the wicked possibilities that open up when it will be rly cheap to fit powergrid rigs? With those you can rly turn in any ship to a little powerhouse since you basically get to fit whatever you like.
Gurney H	Posted - 2009.07.28 02:23:00 - [41] Originally by: Omara Otawan Edited by: Omara Otawan on 27/07/2009 23:44:42 Originally by: Gurney H Also, for the cheap rigs already existing, like I said, they kinda suck. People don't armor rig with resists, they rig with trimarks. The difference between extender rigs and resist rigs is pretty big, as big as the existing price difference. Not true, the difference is damn small, making the resist rigs actually the much better choice imo. The reason people armor-rig with trimarks is because you usually have more lows for cheap resists, and because 1600mm plates add about double the HP of a LSE. Also armor resist rigs arent that cheap in comparison to trimarks. Hurricane with DC2, 2x LSE and 3x extender rigs: 49k EHP (and huuuuuuge EM-resist hole) Hurricane with DC2, 2x LSE and em/therm/kin resist rigs: 46k EHP (decent resist cross-board). For comparison purposes, switching resist to HP rigs gains 6% EHP on shield, and 11% EHP on armor (comparing to 1600mm armor cane w/ 3 dmg mods). If we take logistic ships into account, extenders suck tbh. Hmmm, I see what you're saying. However, shield does have a couple key advantages... LSE's may not provide the EHP of a plate setup, but they do have a passive recharge. Depending on the type of combat, this can be a big plus and really add to the total HP. The other reason, and the one that really makes me happy, is the lower grid requirements allowing the biggest guns to be fitted and the free lowslots for damage mods. In the end, though, it depends on the ship.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.07.28 03:09:00 - [42] Originally by: Gurney H Hmmm, I see what you're saying. However, shield does have a couple key advantages... LSE's may not provide the EHP of a plate setup, but they do have a passive recharge. Depending on the type of combat, this can be a big plus and really add to the total HP. The other reason, and the one that really makes me happy, is the lower grid requirements allowing the biggest guns to be fitted and the free lowslots for damage mods. Very true. Add in much better agility and speed, and you have the reason why shield RR gangs are superior to armor RR gangs as long as you are using dedicated logistic ships. At least for roaming gangs that is, if its a purely defensive gang armor does better.
Phantom Assault	Posted - 2009.07.28 16:55:00 - [43] This maybe a side topic, but with shields becomming more popular, do you think somewhere down the line we might see more sheild repping gangs. : ] lol
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.28 17:00:00 - [44] Originally by: Phantom Assault This maybe a side topic, but with shields becomming more popular, do you think somewhere down the line we might see more sheild repping gangs. : ] lol I do not see why not. I use remote shield RR at least :). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.07.28 17:29:00 - [45] Originally by: Phantom Assault This maybe a side topic, but with shields becomming more popular, do you think somewhere down the line we might see more sheild repping gangs. : ] lol Shields are only becoming popular on sub-bs. So unless people start making battlecruiser rr gangs for some reason, no. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
SuiJuris	Posted - 2009.07.28 17:35:00 - [46] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Originally by: Phantom Assault This maybe a side topic, but with shields becomming more popular, do you think somewhere down the line we might see more sheild repping gangs. : ] lol Shields are only becoming popular on sub-bs. So unless people start making battlecruiser rr gangs for some reason, no. Saw a Caldari Militia gang with 6 drakes and 3 basilisks about 2 weeks ago. Thankfully im in the Amarr militia and didn't have to deal with trying to kill it but I imagine it was very effective. --- It's like my mom always said... "I knew I should of drowned that one."
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.07.28 17:37:00 - [47] Originally by: SuiJuris Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Originally by: Phantom Assault This maybe a side topic, but with shields becomming more popular, do you think somewhere down the line we might see more sheild repping gangs. : ] lol Shields are only becoming popular on sub-bs. So unless people start making battlecruiser rr gangs for some reason, no. Saw a Caldari Militia gang with 6 drakes and 3 basilisks about 2 weeks ago. Thankfully im in the Amarr militia and didn't have to deal with trying to kill it but I imagine it was very effective. That's just a shield gang with logistics, not an rr gang.But yes, it's effective. It's pretty much invincible if you add a few rooks. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
SuiJuris	Posted - 2009.07.28 17:40:00 - [48] True, I don't think RR is viable outside of a BS gang because of rang, so its not technically a RR gang, but ya. Also for giggles the Amarr militia took out a RR Maller gang for plexing, was lols, BTW 3 Mallers with long range small turrets hugging each other sure makes a mess of a 20 man frig gang. --- It's like my mom always said... "I knew I should of drowned that one."
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.07.28 17:48:00 - [49] Originally by: SuiJuris True, I don't think RR is viable outside of a BS gang because of rang, so its not technically a RR gang, but ya. Also for giggles the Amarr militia took out a RR Maller gang for plexing, was lols, BTW 3 Mallers with long range small turrets hugging each other sure makes a mess of a 20 man frig gang. Lol mallers. I guess they have a use after all. That reminds me, someday I need to test whether the harbinger's bonus applies to small lasers or not. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Lijhal Native Freshfood	Posted - 2009.07.28 18:36:00 - [50] tech2 ships need a third rig slot!!!!!!
Gurney H	Posted - 2009.07.28 19:02:00 - [51] Originally by: Lijhal tech2 ships need a third rig slot!!!!!! I totally agree.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.07.28 19:13:00 - [52] The main benefit in my opinion will go to BC's, after that cheaper T2 frigates and perhaps also T1 cruisers. While T1 frigates can be prolly reasonably rigged considering their throwaway nature I don't think many will bother really unless you can buy those frigate rigs everywhere dirt cheap.
McClan Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.28 19:23:00 - [53] tech2 ships need a third rig slot!!!!!! +2
Tsubutai	Posted - 2009.07.28 19:43:00 - [54] With cheap (~7mil) medium ACRs, is it possible that the Eagle might be rehabilitated as a sniper HAC? It'll still be slow, but 243 dps at 100km with 0.031 rad/s tracking doesn't suck...
goober nuts	Posted - 2009.07.28 19:56:00 - [55] well its really a boost to faction war as well because most of the fighting i see in it is in bc or less often unrigged or cheaply rigged (gun/ resist) now that rigs will be cheaper bcs will be more popular for the younger sp class
Mona X Caldari Polish Task Forces C0VEN	Posted - 2009.07.28 20:13:00 - [56] I only want know one thing: haw I can change crappy t1 salvage into shiny t2 salvage?
Taua Roqa Minmatar junQtion	Posted - 2009.07.28 20:41:00 - [57] it's gonna shake things up, yay :)
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.07.28 20:50:00 - [58] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 28/07/2009 20:52:09 Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Shields are only becoming popular on sub-bs. So unless people start making battlecruiser rr gangs for some reason, no. Yea, its best on battlecruiser gangs really as it plays into the advantage of the hull class. I dont know why these arent more popular, its so much easier to get a fight because people perceive them as a lesser threat than a BS gang, you get way more kills that way. If you ask me, they are way more effective than BS gangs nowadays, you cover much more territory, its easier to gtfo if needed, and the damage output is almost on par as a gankfit BC easily puts out the damage a RR BS can.
Regat Kozovv Caldari Alcothology	Posted - 2009.07.28 20:58:00 - [59] Kinda out of nowhere, but I'm looking forward to rigging logistics cruisers more cost effectively. (Maybe I'm the only one who hasn't rigged their logistics ships yet, but I bought my Basilisks and Onieroses when they were 30-40mil. I'm a cheapskate. =) In any case, spending a lot less to drop CCC rigs on these ships means I can lose another Cap power relay or recharger, which means more tank. =)
Regat Kozovv Caldari Alcothology	Posted - 2009.07.28 21:02:00 - [60] Originally by: Tsubutai With cheap (~7mil) medium ACRs, is it possible that the Eagle might be rehabilitated as a sniper HAC? It'll still be slow, but 243 dps at 100km with 0.031 rad/s tracking doesn't suck... I really think the Eagle has it's place as an anti-frigate sniper, but I haven't been able to try it yet. Two sensor boosters and tracking computers and you have a pretty ridiculous lock and optimal range. You'd sacrifice a lot of tank, but I think (in theory anyways) you could ruin the day of quite a few inty pilots coming through a gate, provided you were sitting off far enough.

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