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Kind of concerned with Tracking for the Rupture

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Celticjim	Posted - 2004.10.01 23:17:00 - [1] First off, not a mathematician by any stretch, and will never pretend to be one, but something seems to be off with my ability to hit NPC's in my rupture. Background - Gunnery - 5's across the board with exception of Weaps Upgrades NPC Set up High 3 720 named, 1 650 named, 2 named missile launches Mid - Just some shield thingies Low - RCU's, named tracking mod and a named dmg mod. Last nite, against some rather easy NPC's, I was hitting for one shot in 6 over a 12 shot period. Used phased plasma from range of 28-34 kms. I think the npc's were only worth between 15-20k per and I was stationary. Now, this type of miss ratio went on for a bit. Not just the one spawn but some others as well. Didn't take any logs of it to actually check, but only thought of it after I logged from game. Anyone else with either some empirical or allegorical recollections of having some issues with the tracking on the Rupture? In my mind, doesn't seem like I should be missing very often, at least with that much regularity considering the transverse speed is very low. I am kind of flummoxed and wondering if it is my set up that is contributing to this lack of hitting. Btw, Cruiser is at IV Cheers CJ
Celticjim	Posted - 2004.10.01 23:17:00 - [2] First off, not a mathematician by any stretch, and will never pretend to be one, but something seems to be off with my ability to hit NPC's in my rupture. Background - Gunnery - 5's across the board with exception of Weaps Upgrades NPC Set up High 3 720 named, 1 650 named, 2 named missile launches Mid - Just some shield thingies Low - RCU's, named tracking mod and a named dmg mod. Last nite, against some rather easy NPC's, I was hitting for one shot in 6 over a 12 shot period. Used phased plasma from range of 28-34 kms. I think the npc's were only worth between 15-20k per and I was stationary. Now, this type of miss ratio went on for a bit. Not just the one spawn but some others as well. Didn't take any logs of it to actually check, but only thought of it after I logged from game. Anyone else with either some empirical or allegorical recollections of having some issues with the tracking on the Rupture? In my mind, doesn't seem like I should be missing very often, at least with that much regularity considering the transverse speed is very low. I am kind of flummoxed and wondering if it is my set up that is contributing to this lack of hitting. Btw, Cruiser is at IV Cheers CJ
Mad Barman	Posted - 2004.10.01 23:35:00 - [3] dunno if this helps but currently i know that large projectiles work better above optimal distance. so try shooting from 3-5km further than the stated optimal range of the gun like i said dunno if it will work but its worth a try Im NOT addicted - It's merely a way of life
Mad Barman	Posted - 2004.10.01 23:35:00 - [4] dunno if this helps but currently i know that large projectiles work better above optimal distance. so try shooting from 3-5km further than the stated optimal range of the gun like i said dunno if it will work but its worth a try Im NOT addicted - It's merely a way of life
Atandros	Posted - 2004.10.01 23:40:00 - [5] Yep - and besides, you're using the biggest artilleries. Artillery guns aren't really renowned for their tracking.
Atandros	Posted - 2004.10.01 23:40:00 - [6] Yep - and besides, you're using the biggest artilleries. Artillery guns aren't really renowned for their tracking.
Celticjim	Posted - 2004.10.01 23:48:00 - [7] Ok...will give the extra distance a try. Never thought of them as the big guns, but that could be it as well. hmmm...mebbe attempt to gain some reliable stats from the logs and see what is going on CJ
Celticjim	Posted - 2004.10.01 23:48:00 - [8] Ok...will give the extra distance a try. Never thought of them as the big guns, but that could be it as well. hmmm...mebbe attempt to gain some reliable stats from the logs and see what is going on CJ
TekRa	Posted - 2004.10.02 01:03:00 - [9] I havn't used a rupture/M arty's for a while, but i remember the 650's being a better choice than the 720's, also, as stated above, try firing beyond the optimal, Whilst alot of people say Projectiles are totaly crap, they're aren't too bad (but still need a tweak in places;) if you have a spare mid slot try and find a tracking computer I/II or optical tracking computer, they make alot of difference. > With the lights out it's less dangerous.
TekRa	Posted - 2004.10.02 01:03:00 - [10] I havn't used a rupture/M arty's for a while, but i remember the 650's being a better choice than the 720's, also, as stated above, try firing beyond the optimal, Whilst alot of people say Projectiles are totaly crap, they're aren't too bad (but still need a tweak in places;) if you have a spare mid slot try and find a tracking computer I/II or optical tracking computer, they make alot of difference. > With the lights out it's less dangerous.
Moridan	Posted - 2004.10.02 01:07:00 - [11] You really need to check the logs. Since you fire them all at once, most likely, you are seeing 1/4 of the shots every 'round'. I hit much more than 1/6. More like 50% at least with comparable skills depending on range, transverse velocity, etc. Throw on a tracking computer in the mids and an enhancer in the lows along with your damage mods You'll be seeing excelent hits or better ever other shot. "Speak quietly and carry a big torpedo."
Moridan	Posted - 2004.10.02 01:07:00 - [12] You really need to check the logs. Since you fire them all at once, most likely, you are seeing 1/4 of the shots every 'round'. I hit much more than 1/6. More like 50% at least with comparable skills depending on range, transverse velocity, etc. Throw on a tracking computer in the mids and an enhancer in the lows along with your damage mods You'll be seeing excelent hits or better ever other shot. "Speak quietly and carry a big torpedo."
Gyrn Fzirth	Posted - 2004.10.02 01:08:00 - [13] Originally by: Celticjim Ok...will give the extra distance a try. Never thought of them as the big guns, but that could be it as well. hmmm...mebbe attempt to gain some reliable stats from the logs and see what is going on CJ Hard to get reliable stats from the log. The log only captures 1/4 to 2/3 of the shots fired - stupid if you ask me (which you didn't, but semantics are bull****.) Try it anyway. Fire off 1 full volley of your guns and see how many are actually logged. It gets worse when you've got lots of stuff going on, to the point where 1/10 shots is logged. It seems that they only log messages that are shown on the screen. It SHOULD be they log everything and just display a certain percentage depending upon how much action is going on. =============== Killboard: http://www.celeskills.com
Gyrn Fzirth	Posted - 2004.10.02 01:08:00 - [14] Originally by: Celticjim Ok...will give the extra distance a try. Never thought of them as the big guns, but that could be it as well. hmmm...mebbe attempt to gain some reliable stats from the logs and see what is going on CJ Hard to get reliable stats from the log. The log only captures 1/4 to 2/3 of the shots fired - stupid if you ask me (which you didn't, but semantics are bull****.) Try it anyway. Fire off 1 full volley of your guns and see how many are actually logged. It gets worse when you've got lots of stuff going on, to the point where 1/10 shots is logged. It seems that they only log messages that are shown on the screen. It SHOULD be they log everything and just display a certain percentage depending upon how much action is going on. =============== Killboard: http://www.celeskills.com
Vorak	Posted - 2004.10.02 01:26:00 - [15] Celticjim, some 720mm tips: A. use a tracking computer(tech 2 if you can) B. also use a tracking mod(tech 2 if you can) C. You will get more hits if you use ammo that has a bonus to range. I almost never miss when using carbonised lead or nuclear ammo. D. Try to keep you enemies at 45km + range, that way you are out of missile range :) E. General range guide note adjust to your skill level 70km-45km Carbonized lead 50km-40km Nuclear M 40km-30km Proton M 35km-25km Depleted Uraniun or Titanium Sabot M 25km-20km Fusion M note I don't use EMP or Phased Plasma ammo with artillery guns. They just miss way to often and your enemies guns and missiles are in better range. These two ammo's work much better in autocannons. When I warp into a belt I pick off the frigates first at 70KM-45km with carbonized lead or nuclear ammo. I then switch to Titanium sabot and Fusion ammo to finish off the cruisers at 40km-25km Hope this helps you out.
Vorak	Posted - 2004.10.02 01:26:00 - [16] Celticjim, some 720mm tips: A. use a tracking computer(tech 2 if you can) B. also use a tracking mod(tech 2 if you can) C. You will get more hits if you use ammo that has a bonus to range. I almost never miss when using carbonised lead or nuclear ammo. D. Try to keep you enemies at 45km + range, that way you are out of missile range :) E. General range guide note adjust to your skill level 70km-45km Carbonized lead 50km-40km Nuclear M 40km-30km Proton M 35km-25km Depleted Uraniun or Titanium Sabot M 25km-20km Fusion M note I don't use EMP or Phased Plasma ammo with artillery guns. They just miss way to often and your enemies guns and missiles are in better range. These two ammo's work much better in autocannons. When I warp into a belt I pick off the frigates first at 70KM-45km with carbonized lead or nuclear ammo. I then switch to Titanium sabot and Fusion ammo to finish off the cruisers at 40km-25km Hope this helps you out.
Celticjim	Posted - 2004.10.02 03:18:00 - [17] Thanks guys. Vorak..will give those suggestions a try. TY CJ
Celticjim	Posted - 2004.10.02 03:18:00 - [18] Thanks guys. Vorak..will give those suggestions a try. TY CJ
Nieda	Posted - 2004.10.02 10:24:00 - [19] I score great hits with 1 track pc and 2 track enhancers T2. Use your falloff too. Stay at optimal + 1/2 falloff and unleash hell. --------------------------------------------- 2004.08.12 14:50:32combatYour 720mm Carbine Howitzer I perfectly strikes Guristas Destructor, wrecking for 543.9 damage.
Nieda	Posted - 2004.10.02 10:24:00 - [20] I score great hits with 1 track pc and 2 track enhancers T2. Use your falloff too. Stay at optimal + 1/2 falloff and unleash hell. --------------------------------------------- 2004.08.12 14:50:32combatYour 720mm Carbine Howitzer I perfectly strikes Guristas Destructor, wrecking for 543.9 damage.
Shevar	Posted - 2004.10.02 10:28:00 - [21] Dont ever mix tracking comps with tracking enchancers... Basicly the tracking comp gives a far bigger bonus, but if you have tracking enchancers the tracking comp will get a stacking penalty and trh enchancer wont (ie. if you fit 1 tracking comp and 1 enchancer you end up with a crappier tracking then 1 tracking comp). -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Shevar	Posted - 2004.10.02 10:28:00 - [22] Dont ever mix tracking comps with tracking enchancers... Basicly the tracking comp gives a far bigger bonus, but if you have tracking enchancers the tracking comp will get a stacking penalty and trh enchancer wont (ie. if you fit 1 tracking comp and 1 enchancer you end up with a crappier tracking then 1 tracking comp). -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Tripp Orsam	Posted - 2004.10.02 11:30:00 - [23] I read somewhere else that orbiting is not a good idea when using projectiles, intead use the 'keep at distance' thing on the right click menu, or just head in opposite direction of enemies and manually try to keep at your optimal (or as mentioned above 5km or so above your optimal). My Rupture setup is 4x 650's (2 scouts, 2 galliums) and 2 standard launchers, i use phased plasma almost all the time and have very little trouble hitting stuff, and i only have gunnery 4 and med projectile turret 3 only! I try to stay at 10 to 15km distance and tank the damage quite nicely as i have more than 1 capacitor recharging mod. I rarely fire the launchers too as the turret damage is quite nice, this is usually fighting 100 and 110k rats + frigs. ----------------------------- EVE Online perfectly strikes all your free time wrecking your 1994 marriage.
Tripp Orsam	Posted - 2004.10.02 11:30:00 - [24] I read somewhere else that orbiting is not a good idea when using projectiles, intead use the 'keep at distance' thing on the right click menu, or just head in opposite direction of enemies and manually try to keep at your optimal (or as mentioned above 5km or so above your optimal). My Rupture setup is 4x 650's (2 scouts, 2 galliums) and 2 standard launchers, i use phased plasma almost all the time and have very little trouble hitting stuff, and i only have gunnery 4 and med projectile turret 3 only! I try to stay at 10 to 15km distance and tank the damage quite nicely as i have more than 1 capacitor recharging mod. I rarely fire the launchers too as the turret damage is quite nice, this is usually fighting 100 and 110k rats + frigs. ----------------------------- EVE Online perfectly strikes all your free time wrecking your 1994 marriage.
Nieda	Posted - 2004.10.02 11:41:00 - [25] Originally by: Shevar Dont ever mix tracking comps with tracking enchancers... Basicly the tracking comp gives a far bigger bonus, but if you have tracking enchancers the tracking comp will get a stacking penalty and trh enchancer wont (ie. if you fit 1 tracking comp and 1 enchancer you end up with a crappier tracking then 1 tracking comp). Negative. Stacking penalty is not calculated as u think. In a basic way to explain, stacking penalty kicks in when you fit a second module, but it is applied on the second one only. It is not possible to go worse on tracking when fitting 2 modules. I did extensive tests for me with my rupture and right now (using track pc and 2 enhancers) I end up with 80% excellent hits per fight. --------------------------------------------- 2004.08.12 14:50:32combatYour 720mm Carbine Howitzer I perfectly strikes Guristas Destructor, wrecking for 543.9 damage.
Nieda	Posted - 2004.10.02 11:41:00 - [26] Originally by: Shevar Dont ever mix tracking comps with tracking enchancers... Basicly the tracking comp gives a far bigger bonus, but if you have tracking enchancers the tracking comp will get a stacking penalty and trh enchancer wont (ie. if you fit 1 tracking comp and 1 enchancer you end up with a crappier tracking then 1 tracking comp). Negative. Stacking penalty is not calculated as u think. In a basic way to explain, stacking penalty kicks in when you fit a second module, but it is applied on the second one only. It is not possible to go worse on tracking when fitting 2 modules. I did extensive tests for me with my rupture and right now (using track pc and 2 enhancers) I end up with 80% excellent hits per fight. --------------------------------------------- 2004.08.12 14:50:32combatYour 720mm Carbine Howitzer I perfectly strikes Guristas Destructor, wrecking for 543.9 damage.
Celticjim	Posted - 2004.10.02 19:42:00 - [27] Yup...I never orbit when flying Minmatar ships. Never seemed to work well, and always chose keep distance from option. Kind of a pain when you need to pick up cans, but worth it in the fact I don't lose a ship. Going to try to keep track of some logs, and pummel a stationary secure can for a bit. Then going to do another one on an npc pirate, and will try to make it somewhat consistent, IE - type of npc pirate. Will post results within the next 48 hours. CJ
Celticjim	Posted - 2004.10.02 19:42:00 - [28] Yup...I never orbit when flying Minmatar ships. Never seemed to work well, and always chose keep distance from option. Kind of a pain when you need to pick up cans, but worth it in the fact I don't lose a ship. Going to try to keep track of some logs, and pummel a stationary secure can for a bit. Then going to do another one on an npc pirate, and will try to make it somewhat consistent, IE - type of npc pirate. Will post results within the next 48 hours. CJ
Reatu Krentor	Posted - 2004.10.03 12:55:00 - [29] Originally by: Gyrn Fzirth Hard to get reliable stats from the log. The log only captures 1/4 to 2/3 of the shots fired - stupid if you ask me (which you didn't, but semantics are bull****.) Try it anyway. Fire off 1 full volley of your guns and see how many are actually logged. It gets worse when you've got lots of stuff going on, to the point where 1/10 shots is logged. It seems that they only log messages that are shown on the screen. It SHOULD be they log everything and just display a certain percentage depending upon how much action is going on. EVE-I Combat log analyzer, great tool, of course its not ingame but its great for checking out how well guns work overall. ------------------------------------------ The ammatar are not the enemy, they are the smoke and mirrors of the amarr.
Reatu Krentor	Posted - 2004.10.03 12:55:00 - [30] Originally by: Gyrn Fzirth Hard to get reliable stats from the log. The log only captures 1/4 to 2/3 of the shots fired - stupid if you ask me (which you didn't, but semantics are bull****.) Try it anyway. Fire off 1 full volley of your guns and see how many are actually logged. It gets worse when you've got lots of stuff going on, to the point where 1/10 shots is logged. It seems that they only log messages that are shown on the screen. It SHOULD be they log everything and just display a certain percentage depending upon how much action is going on. EVE-I Combat log analyzer, great tool, of course its not ingame but its great for checking out how well guns work overall. ------------------------------------------ The ammatar are not the enemy, they are the smoke and mirrors of the amarr.

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