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Countering a Curse(s)

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Night Nurse	Posted - 2009.07.29 01:38:00 - [1] Right, we have a small problem with a small corp of rather high skilled pilots spoiling our pew fun. They like to fly very quick Curses in a gang of 4-5 with support that like to make mincemeat of our gangs. If we engage the feckers with too much they just run, if we engage with a reasonable amount, as soon as we start damaging one curse they MWD outta range and come back etc etc, very hard to keep primaries. Fairly smart guys, they instantly go for any falcons etc. Also like to have an out of corp Damnation sitting outside a station for bonuses. Can you recommend a good gang setup, say 5-6 people to take out these Curses? Struggling to find a counter that will get them to engage without scaring them off...
Commander Yassir Dirt Nap Squad	Posted - 2009.07.29 02:21:00 - [2] To repel curses I believe you need the head of an indecently clothed plumber, a bag of neut brains, and a rope made out of the wrinkles of a bulldog, then you dance in a circle, going wideshines, while chanting: Coca Cola, Coca Cola, Coca Cola, PEPSI That, should do it. ~ The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on.
BigBobbom	Posted - 2009.07.29 02:26:00 - [3] 4 BS remote rep setup, injectors with 2 large smart bombs each. Arazu with warp scrams, or a couple of rapiers to keep them from running away
Sera Ryskin	Posted - 2009.07.29 03:51:00 - [4] Edited by: Sera Ryskin on 29/07/2009 03:52:32 1) Drake(s). 2) Suicide interceptors to tackle a single Curse. Killing them is the hard part, unless the Curse pilot completely screws up, they're going to be watching for ships that are a threat and simply refuse to engage if you bring too many of them. Your best bet is to force a situation (gate fight, black ops, logon trap, etc) where you can bait them into engaging a smaller force and then ambush them with overwhelming firepower. Of course if you just need to force them to disengage, just bring a Drake or two. ========== Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
Skallebank Minmatar Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.29 11:12:00 - [5] drakes and intys may work , but 3-5 curse's will pop even passive tank drakes fairly fast. the curse is a hard ship to fight imo. rr neut domi's could be the go , setup right they have the tank neuts ect to counteract the curse's . then u just need something to catch them with. another thing that could work is sniper hacs+ tacklers and a falcon or scorp . People like this are hard to beat , because they should know when to gtfo . So u need to bait them into engaging then get at least one pointed and webbed-jammed off gate/station. My grammer and spelling arn't perfect,.deal with it.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.07.29 11:49:00 - [6] The remote rep Domis sounds like a solid option. The players who can't use Domis should probably be in Drakes to keep pressure on. Anyone left over should be a suicide tackler. If they can hold one Curse in place for just a few seconds Drakes and Domi drones should tear it apart. They'll have to kill two Domis or a Domi and two Drakes to balance the ISK lost from each Curse, so over time this is going to become quite annoying. Although large smartbombs should eliminate the drone threat at first, the Curse pilots will eventually counter by parking a neutral alt within your smartbomb radius before engaging. It's taking ridiculous advantage of game mechanics but it's not really something that could be petitioned.
Neacail	Posted - 2009.07.29 12:07:00 - [7] Snipers. I've done this myself. Get them to engage, and well placed snipers will take out a curse before it warps out. Sure, you need a bunch of them, but it works. The amount of ships needed really depends on how they are fitted, though. You mentioned "very quick" Curses, which suggests shield tanks, but you also mentioned a Damnation, which suggests armor. If the former, 5 apocs with aurora should pop a curse in two volleys - they would lock the curse in about 3 seconds, and the second volley is in 6.6 seconds, so if they are as good as they say (curse aligns between 5 to 8 seconds), you might want to send in cheap suicide tacklers with cap boosters (T1 frigs would do the trick). If the latter, then you need far more ships, and keep in mind the slower lock time. The above, of course, assumes a range of 160km+. You can easily switch to closer range faction ammo and greatly reduce the amount of ships needed for this. Something else you can try is as many missile ships as you can field. You'll need to bait them, but with proper target calling, it's very hard for a curse to escape (they aren't exactly known for their tanks) before it pops.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.29 12:59:00 - [8] Originally by: Skallebank drakes and intys may work , but 3-5 curse's will pop even passive tank drakes fairly fast Curses actually have pretty low damage output; around 200 DPS from the drones, and between 0-100 extra DPS from missiles depending on how many launchers are fitted. And while they'd probably still take out Drakes, surely you're not considering taking on 3-5 Curses with a single ship? 3-5 Drakes firing Thunderbolts will take down a shield-buffered Curse quite quickly too, and if the same ships fire on the Curses' drones, the drones will all pop before the Drakes do. For reference, a single HM Drake firing Thunderbolts (331 missile DPS) will destroy a dual-LSEed Curse in 36 seconds (6 volleys), and the Curse always takes full damage from the missiles, regardless of its speed, MWD on/off, etc. That means that 6 Drakes firing at once would insta-pop one... add drones in as well and those Curses won't be hanging around for long. Out of interest, a Paradise cruise Raven would do a similar amount of missile damage (~300 on-target DPS), and can get another 100 or so on-target DPS from a trio of Curator IIs. Quote: the curse is a hard ship to fight imo. I'll agree with that - it's almost impossible to tackle reliably due to the combination of speed, and neuts to remove the cap of anything fast enough to catch it. Even if you can get a suicide frigate or two to scram/web the curse, you'll need to get heavier tacklers on him quickly before the frigates are neuted/killed by bonused light drones. Jamming can work well if you refit with all Amarr jammers, but a typical mixed-racial setup will have limited success. Quote: another thing that could work is sniper hacs+ tacklers and a falcon or scorp . People like this are hard to beat , because they should know when to gtfo . So u need to bait them into engaging then get at least one pointed and webbed-jammed off gate/station. I think the single most important thing when fighting Curses, is long-range, reliable damage. So snipers are good, sentry drones are good (esp the range/damage/damage type balance of Curators), heavy or even cruise missiles are very good. So long as the Curse is constantly taking damage while he's in range to affect you, it becomes much easier to deal with them. Killing them again might be an issue, but you're more likely to succeed in holding a point for long enough this way I expect. Addressing them with a conventional force, fitted with short-range weaponry and relying on getting the ship tackled in order to deal damage, is doomed to failure. Having flown solo Curses against gangs like this, I've even been scrammed/webbed by a single cap-boosted battlecruiser 40-50km from the bulk of his gang, and managed to neut these away before the damage-dealers caught up. If I'd been receiving damage steadily from most of the gang, there's no way I would have survived long enough to escape. On the other hand, I probably would have just warped out when I noticed the steady incoming damage. Getting suicide tacklers in quickly is paramount.
Spectre3353 Gallente The Python Cartel.	Posted - 2009.07.29 14:13:00 - [9] You're talking about Eternal Perseverance, aren't you. ----- The Python Cartel - My Pirate Blog
Night Nurse	Posted - 2009.07.29 17:17:00 - [10] Cheers for the ideas all.. Quote: You're talking about Eternal Perseverance, aren't you. I can neither confirm or deny that it has anything to do with EP or Ken Plante...whoops, dammit. Their e-peen is big enough already, I hope they miss this post :D

Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.07.29 18:10:00 - [11] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 29/07/2009 18:11:01 Hard to brag about epeen if you use a neutral command ship for bonuses. But don't you get flagged for being ganged with people in a war? The ship will dock as soon as its attacked if it has no weapons.
Spectre3353 Gallente The Python Cartel.	Posted - 2009.07.29 18:44:00 - [12] Originally by: Night Nurse Cheers for the ideas all.. Quote: You're talking about Eternal Perseverance, aren't you. I can neither confirm or deny that it has anything to do with EP or Ken Plante...whoops, dammit. Their e-peen is big enough already, I hope they miss this post :D Most of EP is really nice guys. Ken Plante though yea... e-peen the size of a small country. ----- The Python Cartel - My Pirate Blog
Dominatus Crispus Gallente Nation of Muppets	Posted - 2009.07.29 18:57:00 - [13] Originally by: Spectre3353 have a Damnation with 7 gang links running herm? pardon? is this some special one of a kind ship? because the damnation i fly can only hold 3 warfare links... Corp/Allaince Setup & Tweaking / Faction Standings Boost [Details]
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.07.29 19:10:00 - [14] Originally by: Dominatus Crispus Originally by: Spectre3353 have a Damnation with 7 gang links running herm? pardon? is this some special one of a kind ship? because the damnation i fly can only hold 3 warfare links... With four command link processors and five CPU II's you can apparently fit and activate seven warfare links and be cap stable. Considering the uber base resists and HP of the ship if all you're going to do with it is sit outside of a station and run the links there's really no harm in using this otherwise ridiculous fit.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.07.29 19:52:00 - [15] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 29/07/2009 19:56:21 Originally by: Night Nurse Can you recommend a good gang setup, say 5-6 people to take out these Curses? Struggling to find a counter that will get them to engage without scaring them off... Probably not what you want to hear, but there isnt really a working solution against this tactic, the curse is maybe the hardest non-covert cruiser hull to kill, let alone a group of them. You could either massively outblob them, but they wont engage you (as they are gonna have a zillion scout alts and see it coming). If you bring a working counter setup, they wont engage either. I'd suggest a different approach though, try to inflict Isk damage with a setup that they cant score a kill against no matter what they do, ultimately forcing them to use another tactic. Given the curse is a drone boat and rather low on dps, bring 2-3 hardcore tanked domis (plated to the brim, triple trimarked) , and 2-3 neutral logistic alts to rep these. Stay in station dockrange at all times. Use small guns on the Domis, few waves of light drones and maybe 2-3 webs each and just go for their drones, kill as many drones as possible, they will run out of drones rather quickly. Smack in local as you see fit while doing this, nothing hurts the epeen more than getting smacked while being unable to kill the enemy ;) A slight twist on this that might actually yield a kill could be to do the above for a few hours / days to wear their patience down, and then all of a sudden decloak a few Arazus on them that damp the crap out of the curses, point them from 60+km away (neutral claymore alt with ganglinks sitting in dockrange), and maybe kill one. (Not sure about the hisec aggro mechanics as I dont pvp there, but if they neut your repping alts those get agression to them). Dont forget to smack if you kill something, it hurts the epeen as well ;)
SquadBroken Helljumpers	Posted - 2009.07.30 01:02:00 - [16] Want to make a curse pilot mad? Cap inject, fit a heavy neut, scram him, or use a missile ship that's kit properly. Problem solved.
The AEther Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2009.07.30 06:23:00 - [17] Suicide tacklers armed with some nosses (remember that nos is the counter to neuts, cap injectors take over 13 seconds to pump can but a small nos has 3 second cycle time and medium one has 6 second cycle time) that get into scram/web range of the curse followed by a wave of heavy tacklers and damage dealers can work. If the Curse sees tacklers approach it, it will try to get into 50+ km range from where the rest of your gang won't be able to help - then it will try to eat up the tacklers. So have people on standby either cloaked or warping from another location - long range missile ships that cannot be tracking disrupted and drone boats with sentry drones are good. Basically snipers that can hit from that kind of range. Of course if a tackler got a scam on it you can just warp down to him or her. Link to PVP University
rodensteiner Amarr	Posted - 2009.07.30 16:40:00 - [18] Rapier/Arazu and stealthbombers ought to do the trick, I'd think. Should be able to scram a curse from outside of neut range, and a decent-skilled Stealthbomber can shoot torps 50-60km no problem.
Maverick Aeldrin	Posted - 2009.07.30 21:38:00 - [19] Assault Launchers on a few cheap Caracals to wipe out their drones.
Kapradian Amarr Assisted Genocide	Posted - 2009.07.31 03:10:00 - [20] Shameless plug time :) <- hire mercs link

Mar AlShari	Posted - 2009.07.31 07:27:00 - [21] Edited by: Mar AlShari on 31/07/2009 07:31:55 Skirmish warfare link - interdiction maneuvers. Overload webs on Rapiers/Huginns. Paint. Get in 20 km with Muninns or closer (5km) with Vagas (with nos/cap boost). Load phased. Be quick. Overload everything.
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.07.31 11:22:00 - [22] Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 31/07/2009 11:26:06 Originally by: BigBobbom 4 BS remote rep setup, injectors with 2 large smart bombs each. Arazu with warp scrams, or a couple of rapiers to keep them from running away Arazu is expensive, Lachesis does the same job. And if you really wanna beat them don't rely on injectors too much, use a mixture of remote repps and cap transfer, circle-jerk and focus all dps on one guy - that the Lachesis has scrambled with faction scrams. Originally by: Mar AlShari Edited by: Mar AlShari on 31/07/2009 07:31:55 Skirmish warfare link - interdiction maneuvers. Overload webs on Rapiers/Huginns. Paint. Get in 20 km with Muninns or closer (5km) with Vagas (with nos/cap boost). Load phased. Be quick. Overload everything. If they consider Curse pilots as advanced what are the chances they know someone with Claymore skills and Skirmish Mindlink ??? Webbs are not all that effective nowadays, if the target has a MWD that it relies upon, than a single warp scrambler is several times more effective than a webb - scrambler cuts the speed to 15% of what it would have while the webb cuts it to 40-50%. Nos/cap booster vaga's .... :)) While the nos ideea isn't bad as the vaga has an extra high, the cap booster is a very bad ideea unless you armor tank the vaga, SFI/Rupture style with 3 damage mods. --- I smack just for myself. * Your signature file is to large. Please note: we do not allow signature files larger than 24000 bytes - Fallout
Mar AlShari	Posted - 2009.07.31 13:40:00 - [23] Edited by: Mar AlShari on 31/07/2009 13:40:23 A scrambler obviously cannot reach to 60km-72km, beyond neut range. A webbed curse goes maybe 1000 with warfare links. A Vaga goes 3500. You need to be effective with cap warfare against you, therefore a booster is a good thing to have. Without one you likely end up dead in the water, no matter what the normal clichT fits are. You need to be close in case they fit tracking disruptors. If you can't have a Claymore, have 1 or 2 BC.
Neacail	Posted - 2009.07.31 14:05:00 - [24] Originally by: Mar AlShari Edited by: Mar AlShari on 31/07/2009 13:40:23 A scrambler obviously cannot reach to 60km-72km, beyond neut range. A webbed curse goes maybe 1000 with warfare links. A Vaga goes 3500. You need to be effective with cap warfare against you, therefore a booster is a good thing to have. Without one you likely end up dead in the water, no matter what the normal clichT fits are. You need to be close in case they fit tracking disruptors. If you can't have a Claymore, have 1 or 2 BC. Neut range is 38km. Vaga is actually 3000m/s with the usual 2 speed mods fits that are out there. In this case, it would be better to go with, at the very least, a DCU, as to survive a bit longer. You can't rely on your mwd, web or scram when fighting curses close range. One med neut cycle (3 neuts, which those curses in question do fit) will take out 1080 cap, 280 above what a cap booster would give you. Add in 2 small neuts and your modules simply aren't gonna turn on as long as you are neuted. As for the nos thing, it could work, but a small doesn't take enough cap to actually turn on a mwd (although it is enough for one cycle of either a scrambler or web), and a med one (which also, obviously, doesn't help with the mwd thing) will be completely countered by the quick cycle times of small neuts. It is quite impossible for any kind of vaga fit to keep range on a well flown curse. If you brought twice the numbers, it would work, but so would a group of snipers or missile boats. If you want to kill a single curse, a lot of combinations involving only 2 ships would do the trick. The problem is when you want to kill 3-5, as anybody that manages to get a tackle will be neuted to 0 almost instantly. One thing I would try though: 1 lachesis with faction disruptor (60km), nano fit with shield buffer, and a group of cerbs* with HMLs. The Cerbs stay as close to the Lach as possible, who keeps a point on a curse. If the curses try to neut him, they risk being too close to the constant missile DPS the cerbs are putting out (4 HML cerbs will pop a shield buffer curse in 20 seconds or less), if they stay away, they risk having the gang's main target incapable of warping out. Baiting them might be necessary, but it shouldn't be too hard. Just get them to engage some weak stuff, have the Lach warp in as far as possible within point range, and then the cerbs instantly warp to it. *Cerb is just a recommendation based on the ship's missile velocity bonus. Drakes would work fine (moar dps!), and so would any ship capable of fitting HMLs and doing decent DPS.
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.07.31 18:03:00 - [25] Originally by: Mar AlShari Edited by: Mar AlShari on 31/07/2009 13:40:23 A scrambler obviously cannot reach to 60km-72km, beyond neut range. A webbed curse goes maybe 1000 with warfare links. A Vaga goes 3500. You need to be effective with cap warfare against you, therefore a booster is a good thing to have. Without one you likely end up dead in the water, no matter what the normal clichT fits are. You need to be close in case they fit tracking disruptors. If you can't have a Claymore, have 1 or 2 BC. Non-officer Scrambler max range is 38.2 km - lachesis + loki + ts scram + overload. Curse with recons 5 has with non-faction neuts about 36-37km range, however, a scram needs very little cap to keep online. --- I smack just for myself. * Your signature file is to large. Please note: we do not allow signature files larger than 24000 bytes - Fallout
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.31 19:07:00 - [26] I would think the answer to a curse would be an Arazu / Huggin / other recon combination. If you web and dampen a curse from 60km away, and have someone drop a warp scrambler on them, they're going to die. If you're in a drake or or a dominix, or whatever ship you fly in, drop a warp scrambler on it, and get your own recon support. :)
ShadowMaiden Amarr Divine Radiance	Posted - 2009.07.31 20:49:00 - [27] Shoot them until they blow up.
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.08.01 00:13:00 - [28] Originally by: Curzon Dax I would think the answer to a curse would be an Arazu / Huggin / other recon combination. If you web and dampen a curse from 60km away, and have someone drop a warp scrambler on them, they're going to die. If you're in a drake or or a dominix, or whatever ship you fly in, drop a warp scrambler on it, and get your own recon support. :) And you'll only need 1 arazu/lachesis with 3 damps for each curse - 150km locking range on recons ftw. --- I smack just for myself. * Your signature file is to large. Please note: we do not allow signature files larger than 24000 bytes - Fallout
Dardan Flamur	Posted - 2009.08.01 03:16:00 - [29] I have an alt in their "flight school", hit me up in game and I'll let you know their tactics and fittings for a price!
Xerra Yeltrox	Posted - 2009.08.01 11:10:00 - [30] 1. 1 bait ship ratting or mining with web/scram. 2. 2-3 passive shield tanked Ishtars with both garde2 and curators2 sentries. 3. 1 Lachesis to scram primairy. 4. ?? 5. Dead curse



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