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Tippia
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Posted - 2009.07.29 22:22:00 -
[1]
Only possible response to the cluelessness displayed in the OP ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Posted - 2009.07.29 22:42:00 -
[2]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe poor you. show me were the evil man touched you
Oh shush. We all know you're just saying that to get some inspiration… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Posted - 2009.07.29 22:52:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Galdor brain-dead comments like the one above only emphasizes the point the OP was trying to make
OP had no point, so that doesn't accomplish much.
Quote: keep up the brilliant work for helping bring awareness to the jerk-side of EVE.
…or bring the awareness to the lol-side of players who don't understand EVE. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Posted - 2009.07.29 23:19:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina so guys I heard eve is dying is it true?
Yes. By continously growing ever since its launch, it's getting closer to death. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Posted - 2009.08.01 21:50:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind That mindset only achieves that the victim is suddenly made the wrongdoer
The thing is, that's often the case: the victim made an error that made it possible to target him.
Not learning from these errors and instead insisting that there's something wrong with the game is what generates the whole "L2P, GB2WoW" attitude. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Posted - 2009.08.02 14:33:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kawea rats are pieces of code put into the game for players to have fun shooting at. The other players however, are people wanting to have fun of their own. They are not there to provide you, or anyone else, with fun.
Actually, they are. Otherwise, what would be the point of an MMO? If all I wanted was to get enjoyment from pieces of code, I could spend my time and (far less of) my money on a single-player game. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Posted - 2009.08.06 21:08:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Malcanis Perhaps the basic problem here is that a lot of people are used to games where you can only win, more or less.
Playing one where you can lose, quickly, thoroughly and definitely, comes as something of a culture-shock.
That also explains the thoroughly flawed use of the word "griefing" often seen in these context:
In an win-only game, anything that keeps you from winning through no fault of your own (in relation to the intended win condition) can be construed as griefing.
In a zero-sum game, the only thing that can be considered griefing is something that serves no in-game purpose (and the purpose is in no way required to be grand or good).
Being dropped straight into the zero-sum game that is EVE with the expectation of playing a win-only kind of game means your every notion about what others can and cannot do to you is wrong. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Posted - 2009.08.08 02:28:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Tippia on 08/08/2009 02:32:37
Originally by: Ezevector I'm talking about the players and the fact that they think the fact that they can be asswipes is a full-fledged endorsement to go ahead and be asswipes, both in-game and out of game.
…and this is where you go wrong. The reality is actually the exact opposite: since the game allows people to be nasty towards each other, it is actually doing the one thing that enforced-niceness games cannot do — it encourages people to be nice.
It does so by allowing you to smack peope around who behave like arses — this means that if you don't want to be constantly kicked in the nuts, you need to be kind to people. This means that the only one to blame for being kicked in the nuts (repeatedly) is you, for behaving inappropriately.
People who expect the game to enforce behaviour get confused by this. They act out the only way you can act out in a forced game — by being nasty — and then they get nuked for this fact because those they are nasty to expect them to know better, and take the very simple precaution of being nice.
Quote: What I am attacking in this thread is first and foremost the culture of griefing, tolerance of griefers, and intolerance towards those who vocalize the fact that they don't like being griefed (GASP!)
…and the answers you're seeing stem from the fact that you don't understand what "griefing" is. EVE players do not tolerate griefers, and there is no culture of griefing. The intolerance you're seeing is against people who mistake PvP for griefing, get nasty about it, and then get upset a second time when their nastiness is payed back in kind. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Posted - 2009.08.08 03:06:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ezevector
Quote: Get a cloak and learn how to use it.
That's funny, see, because my character isn't allowed to use those, and nothing I do can change that!
The only thing that can disqualify you from using a cloak is being on a trial account. As it happens, you can do something to change that: start subscribing. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Posted - 2009.08.08 14:14:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ezevector
Quote: The only thing that can disqualify you from using a cloak is being on a trial account. As it happens, you can do something to change that: start subscribing.
You're right. My bad. Mostly. While I'm not on a trial account (GOD DAMMIT, STOP ASSUMING THINGS ABOUT ME, YOU PEOPLE! I'M JUDGING YOU, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!)
You need to stop reading so much into things. You're projecting on a scale that would make novas feel inadequate.
Read it again, and think about what it means. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Posted - 2009.08.12 01:27:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Leocadminone
Originally by: Chadstick For the record I've never been killed for no reason.
I have. Was flying my shuttle and was completely empty just so I wouldn't HAVE anything the ganker asses would want, got massacred anyway for no damned reason by a player I'd never heard of before that and never seen since.
And how do you know it was for no reason? Did you ask them? I can think of plenty of reasons why you needed to go pop, depending on where and when they found you.
Quote: Just because it's never happened to YOU doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Just because YOU don't know or understand the reason doesn't mean there is none. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Posted - 2009.08.12 01:40:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Bazuka Just because YOU think there was any other reason then the attacker being a Douche doesn`t mean there was.
Did you even read what you commented on? No. Read it again and understand it this time: there is an assumption on part of the victim that there was no reason. I'm saying that this assumption is idiotic because there are tons of possible reasons. He's just whinging because he's too narrowminded to think of one, and therefore assumes that none existed. I make no assumptions either way — I'm saying that kneejerk reactions and interpretation based on nothing means you are stupid.
Quote: Stop comming up with excuses for bad behavior.
What makes the behaviour bad?
Quote: Lets just all face the fact that douches ARE present in EVE and we can take it from there.
Maybe, but that's hardly relevant to the question at hand. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Posted - 2009.08.12 02:06:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Bazuka [The fact that Me, the OP and few other posters in this thread "get" why is blowing up a defenceless/no challenge/wothless shuttle just because you CAN a bad behavior and a douchebaggery and the rest of the posters dont, is the reason why this thread exist.
Incorrect. This thread exists because you, the OP and those few others can't figure out why the many many reasons why it's often a good idea to blow defenseless shuttles out of the sky, and because instead making the effort of figuring it out and actually having some facts on your hands, you assume that the world is wicked and hates you. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Posted - 2009.08.12 04:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Bazuka What you see as reasons I see as excuses.
Then you don't understand the game. It's really as simple as that.
Quote: Like...sitting for hours at a jump gate just to blow up a shuttle or 2 with a group of 20 players (awesome and exciting way to spend your gametime um hum ) gets justified with defending "your"space or some crap like that.
This is a perfect example. Yes, it is exactly that, whether you like it or not. Whether you play that kind of game or not.
Quote: It`s an excuse for ganking, nothing more.
No. It's playing the game. You just don't understand what that game is.
Quote: Gate camping is same as rezpad/corpse camping noobs in other games by much higher level players.
No. Gate camping is territorial control, much like cramming a chokepoint full of tanks. In fact, that's probably the best parallel to why you've don't understand the game: you assume that it's an FPS, when it's actually an RTS; you assume that there is a distinct difference between noobs and "high level players" when the two are actually exactly the same. You think that the distinction is possible and meaningful when it is in fact undetectable and therefore exploitable, which means that no sorting can be done and no special consideration can be given.
Quote: It`s griefing and nothing more then that, unless you try to tell me that wasting hours at a jump gate just to catch few poor noobs that don`t understand the game mechanics is exciting gameplay.
No. It's quite boring, but it's also necessary. Again, you have no way of knowing what those noobs are, so they need to die just as well as everyone else who pokes their head in.
This is where the wilfull ignorance I talked about earlier kicks in: the player who understands EVE knows this and can exploit that knowledge not to make himself a target. The ignorant player will bumble right into it, not knowing that the threat is there, not understanding why he cannot be given any special consideration, and thus makes himself a victim.
Quote: Other then fleet fights real PVP is non-existent in this game, I`ve tried so many times to find entertainment value in this game`s PVP I but I always end up disapointed.
That's because you have a preconceived notion of what PvP is, and it happens to be wildly inacurate (see FPS/RTS simile above).
Quote: That`s because my idea of fun PVP is not gate-camping, ganking soloers with gang of 10+ players or spending hours of my game time searching for any fair good fight just so I can pew-pew for few minutes.
…and this is more a question of you not understanding what the game offers. You can have exactly this, but you need to create it — the game will not give it to you. You're expecting a controlled arena, when it is in fact a savanna, and you need to set up an area of controlled space if you want to do "your thing" without interruptions. You have to do this — because no-one else will do it for you.
Quote: The severe death penalty in this game kills any small scale and 1vs1 PVP,keeps most of the high-end ships and modules docked and in hangars and turns players into paranoid morons that click that scanner every 2 seconds, just in case you know.. I have a faction hardener you know...
So create your own fights where the rules are what you want them to be. See, that's the flip side of the whole "you must create it" thing: you can create it, if you choose to do so, but again — the game won't help you, but it won't hinder you either. What's holding you back from playing the game you want to play is your own lack of willingness to put in the effort.
Your complaint is a result of your lack of ambition and drive. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Posted - 2009.08.12 04:54:00 -
[15]
Originally by: EpicFailTroll ITT: insecure gankbears getting served. I like what i'm reading.
You seem to be posting in the wrong thread. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Posted - 2009.08.12 06:33:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Tippia on 12/08/2009 06:36:16
Originally by: EpicFailTroll Everybody understands how the game works. Most players also expect some kind of common decency, which has been disappearing for a few years now.
The problem is that those who don't undertand how the game works have a flawed concept of what "common decency" entails in this case.
Originally by: Bazuka Hmmm you sound like new to MMOs.
You sound like you can't make a statement without basing it on unfounded assumptions.
Quote: When you pay monthly fee for a product that is ment to entertain you whenever you do something that is "quite boring but necesary" (your words) you already failed right there
…unless that's what you expect. You're claiming that any game that features the slightest amount of grind is, by very definition, misunderstood. Again, you want an insta-respawn, zero-consequence FPS.
Quote: You are just t****d in this "game" that sometimes even feel like a second job (doesn`t it)
Funnily enough, no. It doesn't. I wish you could feel the same, but you can't seem to find any enjoyment, and I suspect that it's because you're looking for the game to provide something that it expects you to provide yourself.
Quote: I`ve never seen anyone playing Monopoly when he found it quite boring but he felt is necesary to play it.
Peer pressure is a ***** sometimes…
Quote: I lack ambition and drive? I have to "make it happen myself?" I have to do the job of the company I pay to do it for me?
Yes. That's what the game provides: an arena for you to have fun in. How you make your fun is completely up to you. If you can't create your own fun, then this kind of open game is not for you. The thing is, it's okay if it's not for you — you are free not to play it. If you feel such compulsion to keep playing something where you so thoroughly dislike this fundamental design principle, then you need to get you head checked.
Quote: I`ve said in other threads that i`ve played MMOs for a decade.
Like I said, n00b. I got started in 1995, personally, unless you count the more classical MUDs. No, you're not an advanced gamer — if you were, you would long since have learned to identify what kind of game you're playing and either make the best of what you can and cannot do, or quit.
Quote: So I don`t have to make it happen or have a "drive" or "ambition", all I have to do is pay 15 bucks (in EVE case do a wormhole or two) and enjoy some game for an hour or two.
No. You assume that you don't need drive and ambition. The problem is that the reality of the game isn't what you expect it to be, and this expectations gap causes you grief. You want a particular kind of gameplay handed to you on a silver platter, and it's not going to happen because that's not the kind of game this is.
Quote: So... sorry but a begginer gamming addict like you don`t get to patronize me about what EVE is or isn`t.
So you keep playing a game that gives you grief and I'm the addict? Sure kid. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Posted - 2009.08.12 06:54:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Bazuka The PVP in this game is very bad.
You lack of experience is showing.
Quote: EVE is known as a "niche" game but only a very small number of players actually PVP. I`d say from 40k people online on weekends maybe few hundreds are PVPing. Lets say 400.
Uhm… yeah… so you're trying to convince people that there's one fleet fight going on per day? Again, you're inventing things based on assumptions and based on incorrect, incomplete, and thoroughly ignorant experiences with the game.
The mere fact that you make such a silly estimate exposes your lack of knowledge on the matter.
Quote: The actual numbers are only known to the devs
The actual numbers can be guesstimated by looking at the map, and even then they will be low because not every engagement results in a loss. Try it and see what you come up with…
Incidentally, and more to the actual topic, this kind of information (that is freely available in-game) is another thing that keeps you from being a victim.
Quote: This silly belief that these gankbears have that Devs somehow have this "vision" of what EVE should be
You mean apart from the fact that they have expressly said so on numerous occasions, and continue to do so? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Posted - 2009.08.12 07:00:00 -
[18]
Originally by: EpicFailTroll You're a very sad person. Your arguments are quasi-nonexistent and only fueled by a rhetoric of weak sarcasm. Unfortunately, forums allow for phrase to phrase cutting and quoting, which makes your visual presence considerable. You have adapted to your shortcomings but it really pollutes any discussion. Sorry for the ad hominem, but reasoning doesn't work with you, as proven in the thread that i started two days ago.
Oh don't worry. I quite expect ad hominems since you don't actually have any arguments to back your stance up.
Quote: You cannot have a flawed concept of "common decency".
Quite incorrect. You just have to fail to understand what the "common" thing is in the context. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Posted - 2009.08.12 07:01:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Tippia on 12/08/2009 07:05:19
Originally by: Bazuka
Originally by: Tippia silly stuffz
haha I can`t belive how clueless you are. You can`t even understand the posts you are quoting. AMAZING! One day (when you grow up) you`ll think of your forum warrior days and think "Damn was I stupid then!" This is so painfully obvious I must laugh sorry.
I accept your admission of defeat. After all, that is what you're doing, right, since you can't find any counter-arguments? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Posted - 2009.08.12 07:15:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Tippia on 12/08/2009 07:16:41
Originally by: Bazuka I`m getting too old to argue with ignorant kids then don`t even understand what they are arguing about.
Already? It'll really start hurting once you get past 25, in that case.
Quote: You like the PVP in this game?
Yes I do. The real question here is: do you understand what PvP in EVE entails?
Quote: Sure, go PVP then kiddo, why do you stay on forums and feel a need to defend it?
So you haven't read a thing. I'm not defending it. I'm trying to explain it to you, so you can understand why the issues you're having are almost entirely a matter of your perception, and that your perception is based on an incomplete picture of what the game offers, and on a vast expectations gap when it comes to what it will do for you.
Quote: If ganking gets nerfed it gets nerfed nothing you can do to save it really.
That's a tautology if there ever was one… At any rate, why would it be nerfed? And why should it be nerfed, especially considering the numerous measures already taken in that direction? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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