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CursorMan
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Posted - 2009.08.04 14:54:00 -
[1]
Hey guys,
I'm a caldari char who mostly trained amarr so far, so when I hear about a good L4 laser mission ship the Nightmare seems to be the FOTM. However I've been playing with EFT for a while and can't get a Nightmare setup that can do more dps than my Abaddon (even with max skills). I'm only using T2/Faction modules in my comparison and I'm aware that the Nightmare can srike from a greater distance but can someone please tell me what I'm missing here?
Tks, CursorMan
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.08.04 14:56:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Davinel Lulinvega on 04/08/2009 14:57:30 Tachs. It's also easier for it to fit MOAR DAMAGE MODS. Abaddon doesn't have the spare lows for 4 amarr navy heat sinks and a tracking enhancer. Better tracking also means it gets more real dps even if with the same eft dps.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
CursorMan
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Posted - 2009.08.04 15:12:00 -
[3]
Tks for your answer Davinel. I understand the damage mod issue as I can only put 3 on the Abaddon in order to keep a decent tank. But isn't the Mega Pulse Laser's tracking naturally mutch better than Tachyon Beams? acording to EFT (and the speed in whitch ships melt :)) my Abaddon can do almost 800 dps with this fit:
[Abaddon, Abaddon] Heat Sink II Core A-Type Large Armor Repairer Capacitor Power Relay II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Hammerhead II x5
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Gold Rogers
Maiden England
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Posted - 2009.08.04 15:26:00 -
[4]
Don't forget the Nightmare has a built in tracking bonus and with Tachs you can generally one volley BC and below thanks to it's high alpha.
And you don't have to spend time gettig into range with the Nightmare.
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Pantload
Gallente The Underpants Gnomes Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2009.08.04 15:27:00 -
[5]
Originally by: CursorMan Tks for your answer Davinel. I understand the damage mod issue as I can only put 3 on the Abaddon in order to keep a decent tank. But isn't the Mega Pulse Laser's tracking naturally mutch better than Tachyon Beams? acording to EFT (and the speed in whitch ships melt :)) my Abaddon can do almost 800 dps with this fit:
Right but a proper Nightmare fitting w/ Tachyons ( T2 or faction ) and 4x faction heat sinks puts out more than 1000dps + still has a room for a tracking enhancer in lows and possibly a tracking computer in a mid. No contest on range of tachs vs mega-pulses. Tach II's can still put over 600 dps at over 100km optimal with Aurora ammo.
Just some thoughts.
Cheers, PL TUG: The Underpants Gnomes. Buy corporations here
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Shemhamphorash
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Posted - 2009.08.04 15:30:00 -
[6]
Quote: And you don't have to spend time gettig into range with the Nightmare.
This, thas why nightmare is better with tachs. Depends on the mission aswell ofc, but id say, gooooo nightmare! Or paladin, also nice
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Kismo
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Posted - 2009.08.04 15:51:00 -
[7]
The Mach with 1400's is just as good as the Nightmare, right guys?
On a more constructive note: The Nightmare comes with a tracking bonus, which affects both your hit chance and hit quality - it will pretty much always outdamage an Abaddon with the same weapons. Additionally, it's alot easier to fit a Nightmare (such as for a Tach fit), and it has alot lower cap usage from guns (4 guns vs 8). It has all the advantages of shield fits (tank is limited by your ISK, lows free for damage mods), and it's got enough mids to throw a TC on if you really want.
Simply put: Nightmare > Abaddon, let me count the ways.
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CursorMan
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Posted - 2009.08.04 16:01:00 -
[8]
Ok guys, I'm sold :). Now I just can't get the right tank. I'm going to look for suggestions but does anyone have any ideas (not involving mountains of isk :))?
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Captain Vect
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Posted - 2009.08.04 16:02:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Captain Vect on 04/08/2009 16:04:53 To get the most out of the NM it has to have a bit of pimp and tachyons, 4 heat sinks and a tracking comp.
[Nightmare, Lv4 EM/Therm mission runner med booster] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Capacitor Flux Coil II
Tracking Computer II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Pith X-Type Photon Scattering Field Pith X-Type Heat Dissipation Field Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Drone Link Augmentor I Small Tractor Beam I
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit II
Or the large booster version:
[Nightmare, PvE Nightmare 2 import 1] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Capacitor Power Relay
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Tracking Computer II Gist X-Type Large Shield Booster Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Pith X-Type Photon Scattering Field Pith X-Type Heat Dissipation Field
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Drone Link Augmentor I Small Tractor Beam I
Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit II Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
Try and perma run anything bigger than a large booster and you will ruin you gank.
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hustle man
Amarr Corp 1 Allstars
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Posted - 2009.08.04 17:00:00 -
[10]
Originally by: CursorMan Tks for your answer Davinel. I understand the damage mod issue as I can only put 3 on the Abaddon in order to keep a decent tank. But isn't the Mega Pulse Laser's tracking naturally mutch better than Tachyon Beams? acording to EFT (and the speed in whitch ships melt :)) my Abaddon can do almost 800 dps with this fit:
[Abaddon, Abaddon] Heat Sink II Core A-Type Large Armor Repairer Capacitor Power Relay II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Hammerhead II x5
on your abaddon fit i think you will be best served to get rid of that nano pump rig and put on a 3rd CCC (unless you like to aggro full rooms of course) and by doing that you'll be able to add a 3rd HS. also i have been runnin a bit on the wild side for the majority of my my missions (not all of them) i've been using 4 heat heat sinks on both mega beams and mega pulse fits (modulated type at that. still not skilled for T2 Lg. yet)
also, even with pulses you may want to consider the use of a tracking comperter-II w/ tracking script. it adds allot of punch for sure.
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Eli Porter
Amarr Altruism. Avarice.
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Posted - 2009.08.04 17:13:00 -
[11]
I think the better argument would be Paladin vs. Nightmare.
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Cadius Vect
Domination. THE KLINGONS
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Posted - 2009.08.04 17:14:00 -
[12]
Nightmare:P But Golem is better than both overall because it's not suck with EM/Therm dmg... -----------------------------------------------------------
Killboard: http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view/player-Cadius+Vect-kills.html |
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.08.04 20:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: CursorMan Ok guys, I'm sold :). Now I just can't get the right tank. I'm going to look for suggestions but does anyone have any ideas (not involving mountains of isk :))?
XL booster and heavy cap injector. I myself prefer dread gurista one (a lil bit cheaper than CN one usually), but regual T2 XL booster is quite adequate. If you happen to have also good skills you can squeeze 4 heatsinks, tracking enchancer and 2 tracking computers in there in addition to that booster, injector and 3 hardeners.
If you have a lot of isk you don't know what to do with you can ofc go with smaller size deadspace one. I would suggest however not to try to make it cap stable "permatank" as when you do you most likley will be somewhat disapointed with performance or it will be so expencive so it will be profitable to suicide gank you.
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Katja Shade
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Posted - 2009.08.04 22:15:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Katja Shade on 04/08/2009 22:16:13
Originally by: Captain Vect
... stuff ... Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Pith X-Type Photon Scattering Field Pith X-Type Heat Dissipation Field Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier ... stuff ...
I run my NM with a regular T2 booster (X-large IIRC) and T2 shield mods. Enough for every level 4 mission, didn't even need to get a Caldari Navy one. Sure, deadspace bling is nice, but its not needed, and using T2 makes you a lot less of a target.
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Bugszor
Caldari PodPal
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Posted - 2009.08.04 22:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Eli Porter I think the better argument would be Paladin vs. Nightmare.
paladin needs marauder lvl 5 to shine.. i'd go for nightmare easily -----------------------------------
Originally by: Nex Angelus Perhaps it was a Bugszor
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Bazuka
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Posted - 2009.08.04 22:37:00 -
[16]
Nightmare is so much better then Aba is not even funny. AND.. paladin might be on par..but Nightmare is much cooler (vertical) + much easier to fit + much less SPs needed to be effective. Get it, you`ll love it. It melts EVERYTHING. Tachyons though , forget pulses. ___________
CareMyBear! |
Jack Jombardo
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.08.04 23:58:00 -
[17]
Non of both. Use a NavyApoc ;)
[Apocalypse Navy Issue, New Setup 1] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Damage Control II Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II
Optical Tracking Computer I Sensor Booster II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Energy Locus Coordinator I Energy Locus Coordinator I Capacitor Control Circuit I
without using scripts in Sensor Booster and Tracking Comp max loc range 109,69 km using Scorch amu 83 opt + 10 falloff 618 DPS with scorch, 775 with Navy Multi (28+10 range). Navy Xray still has 42+10 range and does 646 DPS killing frigs even at 15 km (except webber drones *g*).
There is not to much out there, where you need more then 100km. More often you start with sub 30km up to 80km which is perfectly covered with this setup. If you need more use range scripts and Radio Crystals (poor dps) to get 92+10km and 135 loc range.
Originally by: CCP Nozh Where do tech 3 ships fit in?The goal has always been to have them considerably cheap, around the price of tech 2 cruisers.
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Cadius Vect
Domination. THE KLINGONS
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Posted - 2009.08.05 00:30:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Cadius Vect on 05/08/2009 00:30:36 Why would you do that when a well fit nightmare does over 1.3k DPS and with better tracking...
Although I have to admit Navy Apocs are sexeth... -----------------------------------------------------------
Killboard: http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view/player-Cadius+Vect-kills.html |
Ever6reen
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Posted - 2009.08.05 01:32:00 -
[19]
nice
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Jack Jombardo
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.08.05 02:31:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Cadius Vect Edited by: Cadius Vect on 05/08/2009 00:30:36 Why would you do that when a well fit nightmare does over 1.3k DPS and with better tracking...
Although I have to admit Navy Apocs are sexeth...
Becouse I can fly only Amarr ships except frigs (back from days where are Amarr had no T1 scan frig). As result of this I have close to no shild-tank skills.
NM need a second BS-skill at 4 or even 5 to be good and you NEED very good shild-tank skills. As there is so much, that is more important for me to be trained (drones, missiles, better scanning, and and and) - NM would be a wast of ISK for me ;).
Originally by: CCP Nozh Where do tech 3 ships fit in?The goal has always been to have them considerably cheap, around the price of tech 2 cruisers.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.08.06 12:26:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Jack Jombardo
NM need a second BS-skill at 4 or even 5 to be good ...
Oh and for missioning ... there are many missions, where you have to kill lot of frigs and cruisers or are forced to close-combat
The guys with Nightmare often have also CNR at hand to do those missions. Don't need all the skills at 5 to be more effective in those missions with CNR than one would be with nightmare.
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Al Anders
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Posted - 2009.08.06 12:39:00 -
[22]
Personally I prefer on mission to stand still and hit with pulses. Why? Jusr to keep all wreks close and easy to salvage. That's why i am never be in tachy paladin. Pulse one make a salavagin faster. And in you do not salvage.. Khem. Why do you need a paladin? :)
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Lollipops for Rancors
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Posted - 2009.08.06 13:02:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Al Anders Personally I prefer on mission to stand still and hit with pulses. Why? Jusr to keep all wreks close and easy to salvage. That's why i am never be in tachy paladin. Pulse one make a salavagin faster. And in you do not salvage.. Khem. Why do you need a paladin? :)
Still doing this myself.
If you try to kill as much stuff with AN multi then salvaging is very efficient.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.08.09 19:32:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Bazuka
AND.. paladin might be on par..but Nightmare is much cooler (vertical) + much easier to fit + much less SPs needed to be effective. Get it, you`ll love it. It melts EVERYTHING. Tachyons though , forget pulses.
I would not say it is much less SP to be effective. But yes you can do it without avanced weapon upgrades lev 5 if you really need to. Other support skills are more or less the same (altho Nightmare needs shield tank while Paladin uses armor tank). For low SP spilot CNR route would be the fastest way to effectivity propably, as Nightmare starts to outperform CNR at rather good skills by my experience.
I myself moved to nightmare from max skills at CNR/Golem and was at first somewhat disapointed, when I had "reasonable" skils for it. Ie turrets at lev 4 and amarr BS 4 plus caldary side at lev 5. The performance compared to CNR/Golem was not so stellar even against EM weak opposition. However, when you have really good skills for it it does pwn against EM weak opposition when compared to max skilled CNR/Golem. The main advantage of nightmare when compared to missile ship is ability to instapop small stuff at range. Like turret control "elite" certificate kind of "really good skills" when I say really good skills.
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Forranz
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.08.09 19:40:00 -
[25]
This is what I use for my Nightmare, I have AWU IV and only need the ACR rig just because of the NOS. Range is 41+25 with Multi. 71+25 with Ultraviolet. If I wanted more capacitor I could probably switch over to semiconductor rigs, but the ship performs well enough for me. I have all my gunnery skills and supports at 5, a couple at 4.
[Nightmare, Mission Fit] Dark Blood Heat Sink Dark Blood Heat Sink Dark Blood Heat Sink Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Power Diagnostic System II
Kaikka's Modified X-Large Shield Booster Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II
Dark Blood Heavy Nosferatu Dark Blood Heavy Nosferatu Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Ancillary Current Router I
Hammerhead II x5
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.08.09 19:59:00 -
[26]
I would not advertise using officer shiledbooster in forums m8. Can get ya killed. Then again yours is relatively cheap as far as officer goes. I have myself also used cheaper officer stuff in the past to pull off torp CNR.
I myself use
4x Tahyion II 2x Auto Target II XL DG Booster, 3x CN hardener, 2x Shadow Serpentis tracking computer, Cap injector II (5x800) 3x Amarr heat sink 1x Heat sink II 1x Domination tracking enchancher 3x CCC I, 5x Light T2, 5x medium T2 drones Hardwires: CR8, G2 beta, CC8, CX-2, Lacer G2
Relatively cheap and performs quite well. Also if spending 1+ bil on clone is over the top 3% hardwires go alot cheaper than 5% ones. It's not permatank ofc, but if ya need to tank from DT to DT you are doing somethign wrong anyway. Planning to switch out the last T2 heatsink for Amarr one in near future.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2009.08.09 20:02:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Lugalzagezi666 on 09/08/2009 20:03:27
Originally by: Forranz
[Nightmare, Mission Fit] ... Dark Blood Heavy Nosferatu Dark Blood Heavy Nosferatu ... Ancillary Current Router I ... Power Diagnostic System II /edit : forgot that pds /
Heh, what a fail.
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Yahweh Graf
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Posted - 2009.08.09 20:07:00 -
[28]
nm blows abaddon away
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