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Pharaoh XXIII
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.08.09 17:23:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Pharaoh XXIII on 09/08/2009 17:24:35 First of all I know this is an issue that's been discussed before on these forums and it's a topic of heated debate. I also know that for most ships a MWD is the only way to go, but AF's are different.
I mainly fly Wolfs and Jaguars, doing solo low-sec roams more often than not, chasing any frig sized ship and the occasional cruiser. What I'm finding is that when I fit a MWD, its far easier to catch my prey but once that prey is caught it's more difficult to get the kill without an AB fit. I guess what I need to know is whats better over all when flying AF's solo, MWD or AB? Of course, they both have their pros and cons but for the type of pvp I'm doing what will serve me better?
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Hidden Snake
Caldari More-Cowbell
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Posted - 2009.08.09 17:36:00 -
[2]
I prefer abs on wolf and jag....keeps your tank/fitting/sig radius in perfect ballance.
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Alty McAltyalt
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Posted - 2009.08.09 17:36:00 -
[3]
It depends on what ship your target is in, and whether they have AB or MWD, Scram or Disruptor.
That's all there is to it. Size your opponent up first, then fit the right tool for the job. |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.08.09 17:37:00 -
[4]
I tend to get in close and smash people in the face so I find the AB more usefull while the MWD causes too many issues.
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Tolrok Qorte
Minmatar Order of Nephilim The Council.
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Posted - 2009.08.09 17:42:00 -
[5]
I always use the AB on my Jaguar, works much better for me.
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Kessiaan
Minmatar DEATHFUNK Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.09 17:44:00 -
[6]
In before Merin!
It depends - an AB fit alone or in a very small gang will work very well inside of scram/web range. Getting to that range is the tricky part. With an MWD getting to range is no problem but you're going to take a *lot* more damage when you get scrammed and webbed yourself.
As gang size goes up MWD becomes more important - frig gangs are all about speed and in a mixed gang you'll be expected to function less as DPS and more as a heavy tackler.
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Vhiskey
Caldari Imperial Forces
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Posted - 2009.08.09 17:47:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Alty McAltyalt
is this your main?
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2009.08.09 18:00:00 -
[8]
If you want to catch people in non-consensual pvp you need a mwd.
Most of the time you fly in a gang and you're in a frig - your job is catch people. Again fly with a MWD.
I see AF as heavy fast tackle - dps is secondary. AB fits are nice against BS, but too slow to catch most other people.
Your tank on an AF in a gang is your mates extinguishing the guy shooting you quickly. In solo work - pick your target wisely, and you can go either way. AB for big slow targets - MWD for everything else. Remember AB gets screwed over by webs pretty badly - I tend to see AB fit AF as overrated ships and tactics tbh.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.08.09 18:06:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Omarvelous If you want to catch people in non-consensual pvp you need a mwd.
Most of the time you fly in a gang and you're in a frig - your job is catch people. Again fly with a MWD.
I see AF as heavy fast tackle - dps is secondary. AB fits are nice against BS, but too slow to catch most other people.
Your tank on an AF in a gang is your mates extinguishing the guy shooting you quickly. In solo work - pick your target wisely, and you can go either way. AB for big slow targets - MWD for everything else. Remember AB gets screwed over by webs pretty badly - I tend to see AB fit AF as overrated ships and tactics tbh.
Just remember, to get in web range they must get in scram range, at which point the AB comes into its own
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Velin Shade
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Posted - 2009.08.09 18:41:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Velin Shade on 09/08/2009 18:43:58 The op asked for "whats better over all when flying AF's solo."
The answer is easily AB. If you're going for pure tackle in a gang, then fly an interceptor.
P.S. Please don't listen to OMARVELOUS, I don't think that he's ever played EVE before.
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Duke Starbuckington
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Posted - 2009.08.09 18:44:00 -
[11]
Wow, thanks a lot OP, we totally needed another one of these bloody threads.
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Cmndr Griff
Capitalistic Tendencies Red Dwarf Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.09 19:02:00 -
[12]
MWD, else you will meet someone who can fly a cruiser properly and you will go home in bits. Also you warp into a belt, Hulk is at 20km, you AB over and he leaves before you arrive.
In some situations an AB is awesome, but the lack of speed just got on my nerves. Most of my solo targets are not willing, I need to give them the least time to react.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.09 19:09:00 -
[13]
MWD. Its the best.
MWD into range, tackle, kill it. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
MadAtTheWorld
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Posted - 2009.08.09 19:11:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Duke Starbuckington Wow, thanks a lot OP, we totally needed another one of these bloody threads.
lol all this guy ever does is talk ****. i know, i know, living in your moms basement and never getting laid seems like it could make a person bitter but if you dont like the thread dont post on it.
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Sakos Vartrow
Rapscallions Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2009.08.09 19:13:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cmndr Griff MWD, else you will meet someone who can fly a cruiser properly and you will go home in bits. Also you warp into a belt, Hulk is at 20km, you AB over and he leaves before you arrive.
This.
I have kited AB fit assault frigs in an absolution before. In a cruiser with pulse lasers its just a joke, you will be alive for less than 20 seconds.
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Pharaoh XXIII
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.08.09 19:56:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Duke Starbuckington Wow, thanks a lot OP, we totally needed another one of these bloody threads.
Sorry you don't like the thread. It should be pretty obvious to all that I'm a new player. Also, try to keep in mind that I'm asking a totally relevant question about fittings on a forum that is intended for that exact purpose. But I guess I'm just being selfish... I should have taken your feelings into account before posting here. Next time I post I'll be sure to ask your permission, ok dip****?
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Zhilia Mann
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Posted - 2009.08.09 20:43:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Pharaoh XXIII But I guess I'm just being selfish... I should have taken your feelings into account before posting here. Next time I post I'll be sure to ask your permission, ok dip****?
For a new player you have a surprisingly thorough grasp of appropriate S&M forum etiquette. You'll fit in just fine around here.
Also: it's situational. I happen to be in the crowd that wants to love AB fits but admits in the end that in most realistic situations a MWD will get you more kills (and get you killed more, of course).
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Zaius Caine
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Posted - 2009.08.09 21:48:00 -
[18]
You could always try this:
[Jaguar, MWD+AB+RLII] Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters 1MN Afterburner II Medium Shield Extender II Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket
Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
Has 200DPS overheated(w/ my implants) and about 7800 EHP. If you like, you can ditch the RL and throw on a Nos or Neut.
The dual propulsion is cool but having both means you are missing out on either more tank or a web. Choose your targets carefully.
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Pater Peccavi
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.08.09 21:56:00 -
[19]
I almost popped an alliance mate's AB Harpy with my thrasher once, due to my surprise that A: I was successfully kiting him (didn't realize he was AB fitted) and B: I thought it would take more than 3 volleys to take down his shields. Fortunately he was actually paying attention and warped away when his shields went down. That is the advantage of the MWD. AB may be good for fights that start at 0 (or fights where the opponent is also trying to fight point blank) but people who fight at range will just laugh. ______ Why has the number of players online dropped from 50k to 25k? BECAUSE OF SWINE FLU |
Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice
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Posted - 2009.08.09 22:06:00 -
[20]
Oh boy...
The greatest single threat you have to any frigate class ship are light drones. Even unwebbed and ABing, they can toast you no problem. A LOT of ships can carry light drones.
So rather than have the stupid idea you can tank things with ABs, why don't you just fit an MWD and actually use the speed/agility of the frigate class.
After all would you rather have a Zealot nuke your ABing behind effortlessly, or would you rather catch it MWDing and lol to yourself as you kill it? *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
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ry ry
StateCorp HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2009.08.09 22:11:00 -
[21]
Edited by: ry ry on 09/08/2009 22:11:54
Originally by: Zaius Caine You could always try this:
will this actually give you any advantage over a normal jag, except being able to run away if you accidentally tackle something with a suprise-scram but no web? can't see it making any previously un-killable ships killable.
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MadAtTheWorld
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Posted - 2009.08.10 00:43:00 -
[22]
Edited by: MadAtTheWorld on 10/08/2009 00:45:01
Originally by: ry ry Edited by: ry ry on 09/08/2009 22:11:54
Originally by: Zaius Caine You could always try this:
will this actually give you any advantage over a normal jag, except being able to run away if you accidentally tackle something with a suprise-scram but no web? can't see it making any previously un-killable ships killable.
you cant see the advantage of having the ability to kick on an ab after your mwd is scrammed?
edit: btw, whats a "normal jag"?
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Duke Starbuckington
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Posted - 2009.08.10 00:58:00 -
[23]
http://eve-search.com/thread/1063443/page/1
Oh look! A 3 page thread that discusses this very topic, and all I had to do was use google, god forbid.
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MadAtTheWorld
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Posted - 2009.08.10 01:15:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Duke Starbuckington http://eve-search.com/thread/1063443/page/1
Oh look! A 3 page thread that discusses this very topic, and all I had to do was use google, god forbid.
oh look! you're a ******.
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Pater Peccavi
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.08.10 01:34:00 -
[25]
Originally by: MadAtTheWorld Edited by: MadAtTheWorld on 10/08/2009 00:45:01
Originally by: ry ry Edited by: ry ry on 09/08/2009 22:11:54
Originally by: Zaius Caine You could always try this:
will this actually give you any advantage over a normal jag, except being able to run away if you accidentally tackle something with a suprise-scram but no web? can't see it making any previously un-killable ships killable.
you cant see the advantage of having the ability to kick on an ab after your mwd is scrammed?
edit: btw, whats a "normal jag"?
Web instead of AB (though some will use a TD/etc.)
Web vs. AB doesn't make much difference; the AB improves your ability to influence transversal, the web hurts your opponents ability to control transversal. The best aspect of the AB is that it makes it easier to run away (though it's still slow going).
Compare: 1600mm Rupture when scrammed: 240 m/s 1600mm Rupture when scrammed & webbed: 96 m/s Jaguar when scrammed & webbed (1 nano fit): 195 m/s Jaguar with AB II when scrammed & webbed (1 nano fit): 460 m/s
The Jaguar with the web is going 99 m/s faster than the Rupture, the Jaguar with the AB is going 220 m/s faster than the unwebbed Rupture. Solo, that can make a difference, as it will allow you to close (or flee ) with your target more quickly. However, in a gang, it makes more sense to have the web, as that will aid your gang mates as well as yourself.
______ Why has the number of players online dropped from 50k to 25k? BECAUSE OF SWINE FLU |
Pharaoh XXIII
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.08.10 02:34:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Duke Starbuckington http://eve-search.com/thread/1063443/page/1
Oh look! A 3 page thread that discusses this very topic, and all I had to do was use google, god forbid.
Of course I read that thread, dude(read my OP a little more carefully, smart-guy). Half of it was about small gang, not solo as I asked about. The rest was pretty much a pi*sing match between 4 or 5 players, but I learned quite a bit in spite of this. I was simply looking for some fresh perspective and some other opinions.
If you are so against this thread, why is it you have already posted on it twice? Just don't read it, man.
Basically what I'm trying to say is: Go f*ck yourself.
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Velin Shade
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Posted - 2009.08.10 04:21:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Velin Shade on 10/08/2009 04:23:22 OP, You answered your own question;
"What I'm finding is that when I fit a MWD, its far easier to catch my prey but once that prey is caught it's more difficult to get the kill without an AB fit."
Thus, for solo AFs, I would always fit an AB. You might miss tackling a few things without a MWD, but once a fight has actually commenced, an AB outshines a MWD in every way - after all, a scrammed MWD = no speed mod.
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Toral Leear
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Posted - 2009.08.10 06:25:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Toral Leear on 10/08/2009 06:28:11 Edit - added fit I love the crowd that fit ab's to af's... yes scrams wont slow you down, but anything that may be a threat (ie cruisers, well flown inties) will be carrying a 24k point. Anything carrying a scram will be fighting in the same sort of range as you (especially if your in a wolf... 1.4 + 11 with barrage s, good luck to other frigs outranging you)
I had 2 AFs (harpy and wolf) and a rifter engage me the other day whilst i was in a stabber. I burn away with my mwd to seperate them, then pick them off at +9km range until the harpy sees whats gonna come his way and runs off.
Solo i'd always choose MWD, even if it means dropping to best named instead of t2 on other mods. It lets you engage, and ensure your in range of your guns. So what if you get scram'd? clever piloting will keep ur transverse down. And if your not you're gonna be faster than the majoraty of cruisers - GTFO when things go south.
In a frig gang it depends on role - a few ab AFs will eat a bc alive and barely get a scratch.
Now if only the prices would stop rising. I'd be able to fly them again. As it is at the moment they're too expensive (for me) to justify them over top tier t1 cruisers.
My fav solo AF:
[Solo Lols] Small Armor Repairer II Adaptive Nano Plating II Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II 1MN MicroWarpdrive II Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I 150mm Light AutoCannon II,Barrage S 150mm Light AutoCannon II,Barrage S 150mm Light AutoCannon II,Barrage S 150mm Light AutoCannon II,Barrage S Small Nosferatu II Projectile Burst Aerator I Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Switch barrage as needed, i just have it as default. This happily eats anything with almost 200 dps at lvl5
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Zaius Caine
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Posted - 2009.08.10 15:25:00 -
[29]
I'd say stick with the AB for solo stuff in low sec. Make sure you have the MWD for gang or null sec.
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2009.08.10 17:48:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Velin Shade Edited by: Velin Shade on 09/08/2009 18:43:58 The op asked for "whats better over all when flying AF's solo."
The answer is easily AB. If you're going for pure tackle in a gang, then fly an interceptor.
P.S. Please don't listen to OMARVELOUS, I don't think that he's ever played EVE before.
You sound like a satisfied customer!
The point of a propulsion mod is to get into position quickly enough, an interceptor is good for keeping a point on someone - but if you want to disable their movement you need to web + scram them - something an inty isn't tough enough to do.
Most cruisers designed for staying out of web/scram range will easily dictate combat range on your sub 1000 m/s ab AF. They can't do that when your AF goes 3000 m/s.
I solo pvp to catch and kill - it happens a lot more often with a MWD than an AB. I'm not disputing the tanking ability of an AF + AB - its just getting into that useful range in the first place is pretty hard to do most of the time.
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