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Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
822
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Posted - 2012.05.29 09:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hisec is the tutorial and market area of New Eden. It's just a bit broken at the moment, and many people exploit the features that are meant to help new players to learn the game and gather some capital.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |

Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
824
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 11:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Roime wrote:Hisec is the tutorial and market area of New Eden. It's just a bit broken at the moment, and many people exploit the features that are meant to help new players to learn the game and gather some capital.
This may have been the original conception but it hasn't been true since at least 2006. The sooner that we recongnise that Hi-sec isn't just a starter area, the sooner we can have a sensible debate on how to develop it to provide high-end, high-risk, high-reward gameplay. I wrote a thing.
All the issues involved with hisec currently stem from it not functioning properly as a tutorial & neutral market area.
It's impossible to balance the safety and income for older players between security levels so that everyone is happy.
1. If you leave it as it is, everybody whines (high reward, uncontrollable risk) 2. If you buff safety to satisfy carebears, rest of EVE whines 3. If you nerf income to satisfy rest of EVE, carebears whine
it would be great to have 4. Buff the income outside hisec, but this would probably break EVE.
When it's fixed and established as a tutorial area, these problems cease to exist. New players plan their tutorial time with the mindset that they will eventually leave the cradle.
How to do this, and what it would do subscriber counts does not interest me.
Problem is as stated above, and I see only two solutions. CCP can either ignore the whine (will work fine, forum whiners are not really important in the grand scheme) or completely change the mechanics of NPC corps and hisec, content & feature balancing will never completely solve the issues.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |

Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
824
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 11:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Roime wrote:All the issues involved with hisec currently stem from it not functioning properly as a tutorial & neutral market area. Close, but not quite. All issues stem from people falsely believing it's a tutorial area. As soon as people drop this notion, the vast majority of the supposed issues go away. If people stop assuming that it is, and stop thinking that they can hide behind it, the level of automated safety turns out to be just right GÇö perhaps even a bit on the high side GÇö and they will start to create their own security, there as everywhere else. Stop spreading the myth.
No, they do not realise it was meant to be a tutorial area.
The whiners think it's a PVE server in the middle of the sandbox.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |

Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
824
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Tippia wrote:Eva Rourge wrote:The point is: with all the noise around ganking and mining and bears and goons and whatnot - does anyone actually understand what this particular environment is supposed to represent and what one should actually expect of it? Most people do, yes. The rest whine. Nope, some ppl think they know , and are biased towards there own play style. Everyone complains when they think its tipped towards the play style of someone else.. Tal
What's a "play style"?
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |

Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
824
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Its not just a tutorial area, can you show me where it says that in the official documentation ?
Quote:The high security areas are the safer places at which to start, until you are ready to venture into the more aggressive areas of the game.
What other purpose would it serve in a sandbox game? Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |

Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
824
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote: I cant be asked to answer dumb questions.
You were asked to clarify your statement. What do you mean by a "play style" in this context?
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |

Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
825
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Roime wrote:What other purpose would it serve in a sandbox game? To offer different buckets and spades.
The buckets and spades are identical in all EVE with a handful of combat ability -related exceptions, which exist to keep hisec a safer area for new players to learn the game.
Quote:Read the responses in this thread that may give you a clue.
There is no consensus in this thread. Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |

Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
825
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote: Can you point to the part were it says that other players can't target or shoot you in the "tutorial zones"?
No, I can't. You can target and shoot most things everywhere in EVE. To protect the new players while they learn the game, CCP has created CONCORD, a concept that introduces a level of security in the starter areas without breaking the idea of a sandbox.
It protects the new players by making it less than sensible to shoot players in cheap ships.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |

Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
825
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Nope, some ppl think they know , and are biased towards there own play style. Everyone complains when they think its tipped towards the play style of someone else..
You are still referring to some obscure "play style" concepts like they would mean anything to other people.
Or maybe you can tell what is my "play style"?
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |

Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
825
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:No not really, I can see from your posts that no one can tell you anything, so whats the point. Obscure concept,  Tal
Or then you just realised that here is no such thing outside your small mind, and try to cover your obvious inability to convey your simple thoughts of what it could be by zero-content unfunny replies. Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
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Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
825
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Roime wrote:To protect the new players while they learn the game, CCP has created CONCORD No. That is not what CONCORD does. You are confusing CONCORD with game masters. Remember the old adage, repeated again and again by CCP: CONCORD provides consequences, not protection. You're only illustrating yet another false myth about highsec, just like you keep repeating the false myth that highsec is a starter area. It's the repetitions of this kind of nonsense that keeps making highsec that keeps so many issues alive. Quote:It protects the new players by making it less than sensible to shoot players in cheap ships. No. CONCORD GǣprotectsGǥ everyone by ensuring that all aggression in highsec comes at a costGǪ and again, it's not actual protection. Protection (of a non-player kind) only exists in the tutorial systems (and there, it comes in the form of harsher rules and nasty ebil GMs). It does not exist in highsec beyond what players can create for themselves.
You are confusing prevention with protection.
CONCORD as a punitive, posterior mechanism makes it financially senseless to suicide gank noobs, which protects the noobs without breaking the sandbox. Very clever from CCP.
Problem is, again, people who don't want to leave their NPC corps because ~wardecs~, don't want to leave hisec because they have no reasons and ~other players~, and whine on the forums that Hulkageddoners need to be banned.
For me, hisec is fine and without the forums I'd have very little interaction with it. Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |

Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
825
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
What exactly is your stance. What is it you think CCP should do?
CCP should stop reading GD.
Personally I think they should move 4/10s and L4s to lowsec and buff their rewards, change NPC corps to have graduation, buff CONCORD and make hisec a lot smaller, but none of this increases the subscription base and that should be the motivation behind changes. You can't always do the right thing and please the masses  Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |

Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
825
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote: Mate if you don't know what "play style" is or find the concept obscure then It's not my small mind you need worry about.
Personal attacks attack as well, you running out of overly worded zero content replies ?
Tal
P.S I wasn't trying to be funny.
All I wanted is to see you try and apply your vision of this "play style" concept to a sandbox game, and explain why "play style" would dictate reactions to hisec as you stated.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |

Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
828
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 08:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote: Play style is the way you play the game, be it miner, PVP god or what ever.
Some ppl love the manufacturing, PI, trading part of Eve but don't want to play pew pew, others want to shoot everything that moves and a few things that don't and screw non combat roles.
All should be catered for in Eve
Tal
Now we are getting somewhere, and that somewhere is the "don't want to play pew pew", and the misconception that someone out there wants to screw non-combat roles. Anyway, most EVE players don't fall under one easily defined "play style", in order to succeed in this sandbox, you either need to do a little bit of everything/many things, or succumb to defined role as part of a large organization. Instead of clearly defined black & white playstyles, there are numerous shades of gray.
"Don't want to play pew" however, is a black & white view, and not catered for in EVE, never will be and those looking for that kind of game simply need to unsub and leave. There will always be non-consensual PVP everywhere in EVE, this been stated numerous times by CCP. So, you can't stick to this "play style" in EVE, you need to adapt. Finding friends to protect you would be the most obvious choice in an MMO, moving out of hisec is also the sensible thing to do.
I guess from their viewpoint, the gankers and ebil piwates want to screw non-combat roles when they blow haulers and miners up, but that is really just a part of the game. These guys, like Goons as the currently popular example, might have huge industrial wings in their organisations. Shooting miners not blue to them is playing the game, manipulating the economy for their own good.
I do PI, sometimes harvest gas and mine as well, build ships from mineral stockpiles I acquired with capital I created from active cross-regional trading. I enjoy exploration too, but most of all I enjoy living in wormhole space where I can take care of my own, and shoot who I want without anyone interfering. This is true independence, only available in a virtual game universe. Why be a slave of a virtual society, when you can build your own corner with your own rules?
Finally, EVE comes down to this imho:
If I blow up your ship and pod you, was it because I didn't like your playstyle or drive you out of the game, or because you failed and couldn't defend yourself?
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |

Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
828
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 09:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:Highsec is a barrier that ensures no one group can ever completely control EvE to the detriment of everyone else. It sort of failed at that, didn't it? Hi sec only puts in a cost into doing that. Once someone is too big to care about costs, that obstacle becomes irrelevant.
When did that happen? Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |

Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
828
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 09:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Some months ago.
I am actually surprised no goon has thought about how fun it'd be to permanently camp every hi sec main and secondary route and hub. Something like burn Jita (which would be a "beta test" but permanent and spread everywhere).
If I was a goon I'd force EvE to die just because it's amusing. Plus they already rolled on several GW2 servers, so they have a replacement game where to go anyway.
lol @ Goons controlling your game
They do control the propaganda war. Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |

Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
828
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 10:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
I agree with both posters above, especially Jori has good points.
I'd like to see NPCs podding players. Rats would pod in < -0.5, CONCORD and Navies would pod outlaws in > 0.5, and negative sec status pilots in > 0.9.
Hisec shouldn't be harder just for the bears.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
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