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Spy 21 Lonetrek Exploration and Salvage 72	Posted - 2012.05.29 15:44:00 - [1] - Quote Sorry forgot first line... Here are my thoughts on what needs to happen to get more pilots into low sec with the resulting pew that goes along with that: 1. Give them more reason to be there Skills that can only be trained in low sec (exactly why can capital ships be trained in high sec where they cannot be flown?) More cool stuff to be found (rat rewards, exploration) Mission rewards double that of low sec PVP (of course... and that will happen with more people in low sec) 2. Make it easier to get into low sec from high sec Larger gates More efficient gate guns at high/low gates More than one entrance to some systems 3. More opportunities for interaction in Low Lots of cool agents in space Areas that have system effect similar to wormholes but localized (rat rewards, training speed, mining yield et al) Market items only available in low sec Slow the ships down a bit or make the systems bigger (gives more time for an encounter to run it's course before reinforcements show up and change the engagement from a fight to a slaughter) More D-Scan options (auto scan, better distance management... making it easier for targets to find one another) And, nerf the sec status hit a little bit to lessen that as a barrier for those not wanting to go -10. The high sec to low sec entrance gate camp keeps more players out of low sec than anything else... People don't so much mind losing ships but losing them to a 10 to 1 gate camp is no fun for anyone. Gate camps are great but need to be something you're more likely to encounter once youre already in low sec than as a barrier to getting there. That's why for systems .3 or lower, the number of gate guns should actually be decreased ending up at none in 0.0. These my thoughts... thanks for reading. S "The next time airport security tells you to put your hands over your head and hold that vulnerable position for seven seconds, ask yourself: Is this the posture of a free man?"
Virgil Travis GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated 240	Posted - 2012.05.29 16:01:00 - [2] - Quote in before the cries of 'you're just howwible piwats and want to gank pplz'. Low sec does need some love although I do like the fact that I can leave the herd behind. After roaming about in low and null sec a bit the other day I felt a bit queazy looking at local when I jumped back into high sec for a while. If the Sims all became zombies it would be easy to escape them, just shove them in a room and make them answer the telephone.
sabre906 Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice 113	Posted - 2012.05.29 16:03:00 - [3] - Quote The one and only thing that will bring people to lowsec: Make it safer. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454
Lin-Young Borovskova Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 71	Posted - 2012.05.29 16:05:00 - [4] - Quote And then instead of some smartbombing battleships with logis to burn everything passing through gates, you need a lot of smartbombing battleships and more logis to burn everything passing through gates.
Ituhata Saken Elysium Enterprises 123	Posted - 2012.05.29 16:08:00 - [5] - Quote sabre906 wrote: The one and only thing that will bring people to lowsec: Make it safer. Well duh. Iron-clad death traps at the entrances to low aren't exactly intuitive for luring in a constant stream of prey. Now, dangle a carrot on a stick and give them a false sense of relative safety and security while you lure them down a narrow corridor then swoop in and blugeon it with a gank stick. The unassuming carebear can feel like he braved lowsec and made it a few jumps in, a victory for sure, and the pirates can feel like they set up an elegant attack. Everybody wins.
sabre906 Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice 113	Posted - 2012.05.29 16:12:00 - [6] - Quote Ituhata Saken wrote: sabre906 wrote: The one and only thing that will bring people to lowsec: Make it safer. Well duh. Iron-clad death traps at the entrances to low aren't exactly intuitive for luring in a constant stream of prey. Now, dangle a carrot on a stick and give them a false sense of relative safety and security while you lure them down a narrow corridor then swoop in and blugeon it with a gank stick. The unassuming carebear can feel like he braved lowsec and made it a few jumps in, a victory for sure, and the pirates can feel like they set up an elegant attack. Everybody wins. How long will that work? What OP really wanted is easy gank, and that's not going to happen. Other players don't exist purely for your enjoyment. Single player is that way -> tl;dr: Multiplayer interaction not ESRP rated. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454
Spy 21 Lonetrek Exploration and Salvage 73	Posted - 2012.05.29 16:13:00 - [7] - Quote Ituhata Saken wrote: sabre906 wrote: The one and only thing that will bring people to lowsec: Make it safer. Well duh. Iron-clad death traps at the entrances to low aren't exactly intuitive for luring in a constant stream of prey. Now, dangle a carrot on a stick and give them a false sense of relative safety and security while you lure them down a narrow corridor then swoop in and blugeon it with a gank stick. The unassuming carebear can feel like he braved lowsec and made it a few jumps in, a victory for sure, and the pirates can feel like they set up an elegant attack. Everybody wins. I think most folks realize there is greater risk in low sec... my thoughts to a degree aim to increase the rewards in exchange for that risk. As for the gate camps at the entrances to low sec... that's not a risk/reward management item - it's usually just suicide. S "The next time airport security tells you to put your hands over your head and hold that vulnerable position for seven seconds, ask yourself: Is this the posture of a free man?"
Ituhata Saken Elysium Enterprises 123	Posted - 2012.05.29 16:19:00 - [8] - Quote sabre906 wrote: How long will that work? If there is even a glimmer of hope that one can slip through and outfox his enemies, then for as long as the stars shine. Spy21 wrote: As for the gate camps at the entrances to low sec... that's not a risk/reward management item - it's usually just suicide. Only fitting for emo carebears.
Bootleg Jack Potters Field 102	Posted - 2012.05.29 16:22:00 - [9] - Quote Said it 1000 times since UO created Trammel: No matter what you do you can't populate a PvP area by luring/forcing PvE players. The way to populate a PvP area is to make PvP not suck so you can lure in the millions of people on Earth who actually like PvP. I'm an American, English is my second language...
J3ssica Alba Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 381	Posted - 2012.05.29 16:24:00 - [10] - Quote If you kill the little fish before they grow up to be big fish and have eggs there will be no more fish in the lake. Little fish = ships that die at hi / lo gatecamps. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Lin-Young Borovskova Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 71	Posted - 2012.05.29 16:37:00 - [11] - Quote Spy 21 wrote: Ituhata Saken wrote: sabre906 wrote: The one and only thing that will bring people to lowsec: Make it safer. Well duh. Iron-clad death traps at the entrances to low aren't exactly intuitive for luring in a constant stream of prey. Now, dangle a carrot on a stick and give them a false sense of relative safety and security while you lure them down a narrow corridor then swoop in and blugeon it with a gank stick. The unassuming carebear can feel like he braved lowsec and made it a few jumps in, a victory for sure, and the pirates can feel like they set up an elegant attack. Everybody wins. I think most folks realize there is greater risk in low sec... my thoughts to a degree aim to increase the rewards in exchange for that risk. As for the gate camps at the entrances to low sec... that's not a risk/reward management item - it's usually just suicide. S Well actually I agree more or less in most ideas you exposed, however the greatest deal with low sec entries mostly is just that, gate camps that don't need a lot of effort to ruin everything passing by. Maybe the simple fact of increase number and dmg of sentry is not the answer, maybe the dmg and rof of those sentry should just be proportional to the number of ships in some 250km area around that gate but then we have another problem, how this system would do the difference in between just a gate camp and roaming gangs/fleets. Gates must be choke points but the interaction of players just make it almost difficult to impossible to balance in between those no effort no brains gate camps and real roaming gangs. Also exposed an idea in a previous post, how hard it would be to implement isk reward for killing enemies: Situations: -Pirate -Negative SS (0 to -5) -Aggressor -Corporation/Alliance enemy (through wardec system) -Corporation/Alliance terrible standing -Corporation alliance bad standing -Penalty system required for shooting: fleet /corp/alliance members (independent of SS status) Based on some % of the global cost destroyed ship+pilot implants if podded, values of those bounty could/would become a serious pvp incentive. I've calculated that a 0.03% for the highest risk to 0.015% for the lower risk would be enough to make pvp take a new for of fun/reward factor instead of dumb km's farming. Of course this is just a first draw the needs refining but the idea is there and with the good proportions related to low/null sec differences (larger combats in null etc) this could make low sec far more appealing than it is today. Of course this would change absolutely nothing all alone but a little and important plus for all regions in new eden.
Carton Mantory Occassus Republica Trade Wind Commodities 15	Posted - 2012.05.29 17:28:00 - [12] - Quote Still believe that the Faction owning the system should police it instead of some lame gate gun. If you dont do that, have energy destablizer guns and warp disruptor guns and drones that target paint, web and damage.
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 981	Posted - 2012.05.29 17:35:00 - [13] - Quote Bootleg Jack wrote: Said it 1000 times since UO created Trammel: No matter what you do you can't populate a PvP area by luring/forcing PvE players. The way to populate a PvP area is to make PvP not suck so you can lure in the millions of people on Earth who actually like PvP. This. I PvP all the time in other MMOs and I have GW2 pre-purchase client since first beta. Some other MMOs don't even have "hi sec" at all, once you leave some small camp with 2-3 vendors you are fair game. Somehow those other MMOs make PvP fun enough to entice people to... duh... PvP. Sure, in EvE you got all that Sun Tzu blurb about how smart and elite is to outblob the lone guy, to cyno 20 supercaps against 2 rifters and similar but then, surprise, you get a shoddy PvP that kicks away all the non dedicated players aka the huge majoirty. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Vyl Vit Cambio Enterprises 534	Posted - 2012.05.29 17:40:00 - [14] - Quote screw lo sec Anyone with any sense has already left town.
sg1jack The Omega Particle 1	Posted - 2012.05.29 17:49:00 - [15] - Quote My life style means I don't get to login or play as long as I want so thats a big reason for me not to be in low or nullsec. I have lived in null and never really had any bother but I can't see why people who prefer to live in high sec should be forced or coerst into low/null just to give more pew pew targets to people satisfing there sociopathic tendences. Eve is a sandbox not a purely PVP game so I think that people should be able to play however they like within that sandbox. Null sec does need some love to at least give the solo or low corp number players an incentive to go there but lets face it any small corp or solo player going into null or low needs to be at the beck and call of an alliance either through providing rent or ships for combat.
Karn Dulake Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance 812	Posted - 2012.05.29 17:53:00 - [16] - Quote I like and prefer lowsec as it is. Its mostly empty and the safest sec of all. Dont believe me 1. no bubble of death 2. You know where your death is coming from. 3. always a chance to escape if you are pvp fit. 4. No politics Safest sec? try spending a few weeks in lowsec and they fly straight to Jita its the most unnerving thing in the game as you suddenly think that everyone on grid could gank you. and the funny thing is that they can I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 1536	Posted - 2012.05.29 17:59:00 - [17] - Quote One more time. Get rid of these gate mechanics and let ships warp system to system (mechanics aside for brevity) and you will not only see lowsec populations increase, but nullsec too. Sure low does not have bubbles, but a boosted inty for "instalock" or a dictor boosted for instalock means guaranteed death. Now, even players who manage to work up a case of Stockholm syndrome and convince themselves that they like to lose ships to people who have nothing better to do than camp a gate all day eventually run out of ISK and then choose to go back to high sec or find another game to play. Get rid of these gates, or the dependency on them, and let all ships dial in system to system warps or by module (whatever) and the entire EvE universe becomes a smorgasbord of PVP whether it's direct ship to ship combat or cat and mouse games with probes and patrols. It would be a lot more fun than just "die in a gate camp". Also be a lot more fun than just sit on a gate all day - unless the people sitting on the gates all day are just as screwed up in the head as the people who can mine all day - or they are semi-AFK; something that the leet PVPer's view as a crime punishable by suicide gank. Until these "rooms with doors" and Great Wall of Carebear mechanics come to an end, nothing will change.
Ohanka Aggressive Narcissists 99	Posted - 2012.05.29 18:20:00 - [18] - Quote People don't want to go into Lowsec because there is nothing there. Its not fear of ganking, people can go years in lowsec without ever being fired on. Its because its a barren wasteland.
Gabriel Z EVE University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2012.05.29 18:30:00 - [19] - Quote I went to low sec as soon as I got the opportunity. It is not what I was hoping for. If you want people to stay, then something needs to be done about docking games and similar tactics that make pvp in low sec pointless and annoying. I spend more time in this game studying how to play it and running around looking for targets than I do in actual combat. If the core of the game is PvP, then this game isn't delivering what I thought I was buying. I guess I'll see how things shake out in null sec once I get there. In a weird way, the industry/economy side of the game seems to be killing the PvP side. It takes so much work to build the good stuff, who would want to risk losing it? Makes total sense from a psychological point of view. Not so much from the I'm playing for fun side.
Ohanka Aggressive Narcissists 99	Posted - 2012.05.29 18:36:00 - [20] - Quote Gabriel Z wrote: I went to low sec as soon as I got the opportunity. It is not what I was hoping for. If you want people to stay, then something needs to be done about docking games and similar tactics that make pvp in low sec pointless and annoying. I spend more time in this game studying how to play it and running around looking for targets than I do in actual combat. If the core of the game is PvP, then this game isn't delivering what I thought I was buying. I guess I'll see how things shake out in null sec once I get there. In a weird way, the industry/economy side of the game seems to be killing the PvP side. It takes so much work to build the good stuff, who would want to risk losing it? Makes total sense from a psychological point of view. Not so much from the I'm playing for fun side. want pvp? go to nullsec.
Oregin Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 28	Posted - 2012.05.29 18:41:00 - [21] - Quote I agree with the gate gun buff. Once people realise they can dip their toes in without having their legs bitten off, they'll try it. Couple that with an incentive and it's a winner. The issue I have though is, why do you want people in low sec? If your motivation (like my own) is more things to kill then I feel its coming from the wrong direction. I think we should approach this in terms of 'how can we make low sec fun and enticing to the whole community?' rather than just the squishies.
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 409	Posted - 2012.05.29 18:55:00 - [22] - Quote Bootleg Jack wrote: No matter what you do you can't populate a PvP area by luring/forcing PvE players. And yet, during the period between the Dominion release and the the anomaly nerf/highsec Incursion introduction, nullsec did exactly that. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge **.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006 ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever.
Spy 21 Lonetrek Exploration and Salvage 74	Posted - 2012.05.29 18:57:00 - [23] - Quote Oregin wrote: I agree with the gate gun buff. Once people realise they can dip their toes in without having their legs bitten off, they'll try it. Couple that with an incentive and it's a winner. The issue I have though is, why do you want people in low sec? If your motivation (like my own) is more things to kill then I feel its coming from the wrong direction. I think we should approach this in terms of 'how can we make low sec fun and enticing to the whole community?' rather than just the squishies. Populating Low Sec is just a good thing to do because it's pretty much wasted territory today. To kill and be killed mostly. That is why my idea contained both reasons to come to low sec and ways to facilitate that. S "The next time airport security tells you to put your hands over your head and hold that vulnerable position for seven seconds, ask yourself: Is this the posture of a free man?"
Lipbite Express Hauler 52	Posted - 2012.05.29 19:22:00 - [24] - Quote Spy 21 wrote: Give them more reason to be there 1) your post is for "Suggestions" forum - not "General"; 2) FW and soloable L5 missions output 50-200m per hour - and still that is not enough to attract people to low sec (compare to 20m per hour hi-sec missions income or 30-50m per hour incursions income). Be there 100 new lowsec-only skills people will find out a way to live without them or to bypass that limit via corporation standings / warfare / etc. like it's done with clones, POS anchoring.
Arcticblue2 Nordic Freelancers inc 45	Posted - 2012.05.29 19:24:00 - [25] - Quote Spy 21 wrote: Sorry forgot first line... Here are my thoughts on what needs to happen to get more pilots into low sec with the resulting pew that goes along with that: S How about ... let me play my sandbox game and you play your sandbox game... if you don't like it then there probably is other games out there to play for you.
Arcticblue2 Nordic Freelancers inc 47	Posted - 2012.05.29 19:26:00 - [26] - Quote Spy 21 wrote: Populating Low Sec is just a good thing to do because it's pretty much wasted territory today. To kill and be killed mostly. That is why my idea contained both reasons to come to low sec and ways to facilitate that. S populating low sec like you suggest is only to boost your easy targets, what about you actually go after other pvp'ers or are they too hard for you to kill ? What you want is more pve players into low sec where you can hunt and kill ... because pve players are easier to kill than pvp'ers
Arcticblue2 Nordic Freelancers inc 47	Posted - 2012.05.29 19:28:00 - [27] - Quote Scatim Helicon wrote: Bootleg Jack wrote: No matter what you do you can't populate a PvP area by luring/forcing PvE players. And yet, during the period between the Dominion release and the the anomaly nerf/highsec Incursion introduction, nullsec did exactly that. What you are saying that nullsec was populating low-sec ? and now they are bored of the pve content there and wants high sec to move into low sec ?
Selissa Shadoe 86	Posted - 2012.05.29 19:39:00 - [28] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: One more time. Get rid of these gate mechanics and let ships warp system to system (mechanics aside for brevity) and you will not only see lowsec populations increase, but nullsec too. probes and patrols. It would be a lot more fun than just "die in a gate camp". My thoughts too: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=109650
Jayrendo Karr Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth 133	Posted - 2012.05.29 19:41:00 - [29] - Quote Im too poor for low sec.

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