...Yes im mad and no you cant have my stuff, mostly because i cant get to it anyways....

LoL Cry much? HAHAHA P.. poor planning prevents P..poor performance O7

\


lol that just dosnt look right ROFL :)

Even out numbered you can still cause them grief in out of the way places that you now have the advantage in because you have ability to reship because you plan on fighting in that area. Had we given up we would be in same shape you are now because we were fighting just as out numbered. The difference is we didn't give up, we fought back.

..lots of references to events from before CCP took a dump on FW .. again ..

Reset wouldn't have helped much, merely delayed the current situation. Difference in plexing is really that pronounced, a small fact that the Gal/Cal chest-beaters can't seem to fathom as they both have stupidly solo'able NPCs and a warzone specifically designed for FW.

I chuckled

But what do you mean by having a warzone specifically designed for FW...?

Question: Are the Minmatar rats a significant threat even in minor plexes? (Assuming you don't come in to a full spawn)

I do agree that CCP should have nerfed all rats into oblivion BEFORE these changes. But what do you mean by having a warzone specifically designed for FW...?

Minors can be done in a PvP fit frig/dessie. Primarily due to ranges involved, 10km button and small weapons reaching only 10-15km .. can be a bit tricky when full spawn in the dessie heavy minors but not an issue.
All medium/majors are on the other hand nigh impossible to solo .. a few can be done in tricked out PvE boats or one can spend 2x the time sniping rats and going on/off timer constantly.

Compare the above to a Shakorite being able to tracking/speed tank all plexes without firing a single shot and never leaving button

Black Rise was designed and added specifically for Empyrean Age as Caldari had no low-sec to speak of in that area . result is that both sides were relatively 'even' geographically which has made for (looked at from outside) a much more lively theatre.
Amarr/Shakorite front consists of Amarr's double donut where any system can be reached in less than five minutes and the Shakorite elongated, snaky space where you need to pack a picnic basket to reach the farthest system .. add the long line of bottlenecks to the snake and you can feel your cheeks being parted

Minors and mediums are fine, but try getting jammed for a minute solid in the larger plexes. It's not fun.

Question: Are the Minmatar rats a significant threat even in minor plexes? (Assuming you don't come in to a full spawn)

I do agree that CCP should have nerfed all rats into oblivion BEFORE these changes. But what do you mean by having a warzone specifically designed for FW...?

The minors will start to chew into an armor buffer tank but any shield tank should be ok. Mediums are more of a problem. The major plexes can't really be run in a decent pvp bc.

Can Caldari major plexes be runned in a pvp nano drake or a dual/tripple repping myrm?

I have no idea what CCP wanted to accomplish with this patch but definatly not to fix FW in the long run.

Or they are far more stupid than i have ever imagined..

So they just went ahead, ignoring all well known imbalances, bugs and exploits, and implemented severe consequences into the FW

system that pretty much screws over the numeric inferior side completly.

Eventually leaving them no way to earn isk, dock in low sec and in consequence no chance to retake any system.

So combined with the original FW system, that already was completly designed against amarr in terms of ship balance, npc balance,

system distribution/layout and the fact that due to bad racial role play design amarr milita has always been lass attractive to

players than any other faction, thischanges only aim towards one goal which is to remove the amarr milita (or any milita on the

loosing side) completly from the game.

And if this was not the intention of CCP then it can only mean that the people of CCP are some of the worst devs, game designers

and game balancers in game history.
Its almost as if CCP does not know at all how their own game actually works.

My prediction is that once the new and shiny effect of this patch has worn off and the supply of suicidal noobs on both sides has

dried up, FW will be in far worse state that it was before this patch.

Fcs on the amarr side will burn out fast and no one will run fleets anymore.
After that Amarr Milita will probably become mostly inactive with the exception of a few die hards that will not care about plexing

(since the LP rewards are useless with this store prices) and try to roam around in small/fast gangs to pick off lone WTs.

After that caldari milita will have to fight the combined blobs of gallente and minmatar which they will probably not have any

chance of beating and that will slowly bring them towards the same end as the amarr milita.

Minmatar and Gallente militas will be flooded with farming carebears and the amount of stealth bombers running around low sec would

blot out all suns IF they were not cloaked most of the time ;)

And with the Empyrean Age (imo the best expansion eve ever had) will come to an end.

Unfortunatly the only effective way to communicate with CCP is through the cancel button in the account management which i have

used 3 times recently.

And to those the still cling to the hope of CCP fixing the bugs, imbalances and the promise to keep iterating on FW i can only say:

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

CCP never thinks long term and in short terms this patch might actually look like a success.
So they will be pretty much done with FW and hardly do anything anymore.

It will be interesting to see how dust514 will turn out since there is unlike with eve a lot of competition out there.

But since CCPs strategy seems not to be to attract new players but instead just keep milking their existing ones by making them buy

more accounts (T3 booster alt, capital/super cap alt, industry alt, neutral hauling alt) and now even more games (dust 514) it

might work out somehow for them.

And with this my final eve rant is over and all the cry more, htfu, gtfo and adapt or die replies can come ;)

What you joined faction war for frequent pvp? Well too bad for you.

NPC balancing is a legitimate complaint. It is unbalanced when you can run a major plex with a t1 frig fit up with overdrives and a shield buffer. It's particularly bad now that FW has had a slight numbers boost since all the newbs in t1 frigs plus the usual alts are running around contesting backwater systems and running from fights constantly. That's a problem that exists across all tzs and it means you can wage occupancy war for substantially less isk than your opponent. CCP needs to get on NPC balancing right away, and should have done so before the patch even hit, but it seems they don't actually ask actual players for advice, cause no one in their right mind would have suggested this system in its totality.

Causing them "grief" does absolutely nothing other than allow for the accumulation of infini-LP through plexing .. (maximum of half what a Shakorite would get as they can solo any plex by the way).
Even if by some miracle, Shakorites are asleep for several days and a system is flipped somewhere in the sticks the plex balance is so broken that it will be a practical impossibility to hold such a system .. (ref: any system held beyond Dal pre-idiocy)

Reset wouldn't have helped much, merely delayed the current situation. Difference in plexing is really that pronounced, a small fact that the Gal/Cal chest-beaters can't seem to fathom as they both have stupidly solo'able NPCs and a warzone specifically designed for FW.

whine translation = I can not camp auga third anymoarz

whine translation = I can not camp auga third anymoarz

"revolved around playing stations games and camping a handful of gates in the same few systems day after day."

It was like high sec war dec PVP.

I guess us Caldari are the only ones that ever actually kill the NPC's? It takes a single Arti Thrasher to run a minor and you can kill every NPC rat before they do any damage.. It's takes 2 Arti Thrashers or a Caracal to run any Med doesn't matter what race. Major out posts from any race can be solo'd in a Drake.. or a aggro ship & Caracal or small gang of Dessies.

You are just lazy end of story.

Which most Amarrs love and prefer than non stop PLEX grinding all day.

Okay so, the patch is in are we are a week in now so heres the thoughts and questions to ccp.

So Amarr are outnumbered heavily by the minmatar - never had an issue with this before, lots to shoot.

CCP released the laughable rules about the sov implications, lock out from station in low sec (not high sec lol) and LP changes based on total system occupancy and the levels of upgrade on those systems.

Not... not really. 5539 Min pilots to 4853 Amarr pilots. Caldari outnumber Gallente 8482 to 6399.



What's "laughable" about them, precisely? It mainly sounds like you don't like them because they adversely affect you. That's understandable, but it doesn't make them poor design decisions.

Maybe less QQ, more pewpew and before long you will be > T1?

Im like that crazy guy wearing a "the end is neigh sign." this is as much as warning as a question to ccp to find out that if this really is working as intended - because if it is - its going to fail once the morale, isk and fights are gone.

So here's a question for you. If you don't want to particpate in the Occupancy Warfare portion of FW, then what's the big deal? Log on, hunt plexers/wts, kill them, log off.



1. Before the station lockout issue comes up: There's plenty of high sec/non-FW systems one-two jumps from massive numbers of WTs.


2. Before the whine about rewards comes up: What does it matter if you don't make any isk off of FW plexes or run missions? You don't do those things anyways.

Why even join faction war to do this?

I just finished a minor plex in the most contested amarr system. Just me sitting there alone with the timer.

Casual pvp, free war dec, lots of targets without having to worry about gate guns.

That's funny, when I sat in a minor in the most contested Amarr systems I got WTs coming at me left and right. But I'm Gallente FW and not Amarr FW. Go figure.

I don't think pirates need to worry about gate guns at faction war plexes or missions.

I guess Amarr are fighting for plexes allot more than minmatar.

You know you never answered how many plexes you actually closed when you went on that fantastic run:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1368712#post1368712

...

You can do Caldari minors in a dessie, but to do a medium or major you need a pimped out PVE fit AF. The majors will start to break most AF's tanks by the last spawn, so it will either be very close or you have to kill some NPCs which is hard when you are perma jammed in the majors.

A large part of your membership currently exists in the form of Fwedditors. They're numerous but inexperienced. Pretty soon, though, they'll be numerous and experienced.

I don't think anybody has a problem with what you're doing. They have a problem with a sh** fit condor soloing majors. Anyways, CCP acknowledges it's an issue, and they have a post up on Features and Ideas. Hopefully they'll figure it out soon.

I guess us Caldari are the only ones that ever actually kill the NPC's? It takes a single Arti Thrasher to run a minor and you can kill every NPC rat before they do any damage.. It's takes 2 Arti Thrashers or a Caracal to run any Med doesn't matter what race. Major out posts from any race can be solo'd in a Drake.. or a aggro ship & Caracal or small gang of Dessies.

You are just lazy end of story. I've never speed tanked Gal rats, always killed the NPC's. All the NPC's don't spawn at once so if you can't kill what amounts to not even a lvl 3 mission worth of NPC's in a BC then you are extremely lazy.

Also you had plenty of time to do this prior to the system change, as it was known about for a few months.. Much less anyone that had ships get stuck in stations because they were to lazy to move them is a moron.

Pie didnt do much? LOL

back in the day they kicked alot of ass and killed alot of minnies, in fact they are STILL number 4 on the all time on the amarr killboard - and bare in mind they have not been pvping much for the last year!! Yeah TMFED had more kills in a year and a half but they were more about the plexing

People see a structured argument for somthing and just auto post a QQ or whine bash post - like mindless idiots.

If there was no p[roblems there would be no posts like these soooo, ya deal wiht it and ccp please - did you really think that this would be a good plan to suffocate the underdogs (whoever they may be, im not saying ccp hate amarr fw LOL) in the long run.

Yes but we see same out of Gals now soloing majors with Incursus. They should just make killing the NPC spawns as something that has to be done in order to capture the plex. This is the simplest way to fix the issue of low sp alt farmers.

To the Imperial Feydakin, Imperial Outlaws: You intentionally turned you back on the legal war and now find travelling in legal space difficult, even if it is your own faction's. Working as intended. Amarr FW space has loads of hisec entrances, this could have played to your advantage, and may do so in the future.

Not... not really. 5539 Min pilots to 4853 Amarr pilots. Caldari outnumber Gallente 8482 to 6399.



What's "laughable" about them, precisely? It mainly sounds like you don't like them because they adversely affect you. That's understandable, but it doesn't make them poor design decisions.

Maybe less QQ, more pewpew and before long you will be > T1?

1) Half of all Caldari "militia" pilots are carebear alts running plexes. I have also heard that a bunch of new carebears are now in Mini trying to farm LP (dont know from what)

Button line is Amar needs to stop pissing and whining and go out and get it done

1) Half of all Caldari "militia" pilots are carebear alts running plexes. I have also heard that a bunch of new carebears are now in Mini trying to farm LP (dont know from what)

Button line is Amar needs to stop pissing and whining and go out and get it done

Considerign as theOP almost never ever leaves auga, and on the 2 weeks prior to the patch when minmatar militia was working.. said OP was continuing to do nothign but camp auga station.

Ok so what your saying is, I need to get my own carebear alts running plexes?

Yeah sorry no thanks.

CCP said they wanted to make occupancy more dependant of pvp instead of pve. But as we start to get into what really works to win the occupancy war we see pvp is not the focus. I guess since they didn't change anything about the actual plex mechanics it shouldn't be surprising that the same old alts orbiting the button tactic is the best way to victory.

There are allot of new pilots in faction war so there are allot of pilots out there feeding on them. But the way you actually win the occupancy war is still mostly pve.

You dug it, now lay in it and HTFU.

confirming Amarr made ccp change fw like they did.

i wonder what we should mess with next.... hhhmmmmm lets change minmatar ships all to have 8 high 8 med and 8 low, yes thats next in our cunning plan to crush ourselves further so i can come back and whine about how unfair it is and we deserved it.

get a damned clue you stupid prat.

FW has always been based on plexing.

Ok so what your saying is, I need to get my own carebear alts running plexes?

Yeah sorry no thanks.

CCP said they wanted to make occupancy more dependant of pvp instead of pve. But as we start to get into what really works to win the occupancy war we see pvp is not the focus. I guess since they didn't change anything about the actual plex mechanics it shouldn't be surprising that the same old alts orbiting the button tactic is the best way to victory.

There are allot of new pilots in faction war so there are allot of pilots out there feeding on them. But the way you actually win the occupancy war is still mostly pve.

Done replying to you. Youre hopeless

Lets try that again....Prior planning prevents P.. poor performance again ROFL

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

No it hasnt, and also it never changed the lp costs nor locked you out of system.

FW has always been, up till now, about pvp and nothing more.

I have been i fw for many years i dont even know who you are, look me up i have along history in fw.

NOW its all about plex systems and lp, only with the side effect that you now cant dock, which if the other side has all the systems occupied, is a huge issue for those restricted to low sec due to security standings.

Faction war today is a VASTLY better system than it was a month ago.

I'm sorry you don't like it. That is a personal problem. On the whole? Huge improvement. Why don't you try adapting? You have a horde of new players at your disposal in the form of Fweddit who could probably be a force to be reckoned with if they had some guidance from more experienced FW pilots.

its not a case of liking it (which for the record i dont) its about the war drying up with people who actually have the resources to do so consistently.

sure im one guy and my corp one corp, but if you cant see the insane uphill struggle ahead to be able to survive you are simply aiding the destruction of what was a decent consistent fight.

without a decent 200 man plus corp joining to aid amarr with a few billion to spending doing so, amarrs numbers will fall, attitudes and morale falling leaving the "winners' with no one to fight - this CANT be the way ccp wanted it to go because its basicly a 2-3 month extinction of fw.

Hey, if you hate me and my whines just dont post and wait a few months and then come back and see where we all are.

Offensive plexers are going to be incursion style rich and you are still going to be bitching because WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA NPCs are hard... Hint, I fly Amarr, have instant change ammo and if you don't want to waste your IN ammo shooting rats bring cheap crystals to plexing.

Or you could fly around killing these "AFK" vigils, and honestly I haven't even noticed being locked out of stations.

The system is better. But let's also face facts. The npc's in the rats are a real issue. Minmitar being numerically superioir isn't a problem as it's only temporary (FW nature) but when a swarm of vigil's can take plexes afk where the other side needs a couple of piolts, ammo and tank......it doesn't matter how much you adapt, it's still broken.

Had this been the reverse the Minmitar would be shedding just as many tears.

FACT

Not to dismiss anything that has been said, but holy crap.

A frigate soloing your plex? How about chasing him off or killing him? I mean they have beacons show up on the overview for a reason. You can see what's there. .

Is FW about plexing? No. Is plexing a part, yes. .

Is FW supposed to be solo? No. Are you finding yourself outnumbered in a system? Try another one until you get favorable odds..

Are you worried about ship costs and sustaining your wallet? Fly cheap, fly in small groups, and choose your fights.* Protip* You can make money looting wrecks of ships that you blow up and get LP for blowing them up! Hell, you can pay for half the crap I fly by killing two or three belt rats (you will also improve your sec status \o/)..

Is the system now perfect? Hell no, but it is better than before in terms of fighting over something and forcing conflict.

I understand that everything above may suck if you have zero access to high sec trade hubs, but sec status is fixable. It sucks ass being on the losing side, but it isn't completely debilitating. Fighting smarter is not necessarily harder.

Doing this will help make things tolerable while the system is tweaked. If it isn't tweaked soon enough or to your satisfaction, that is your call. These are just opinions of an extremely casual player without much free time FWIW.

Or just join the winning side. You will make more isk instead of less isk for the exact same activity and you won't be restricted in where you can dock.

In fact when you see someone plexing in your system they won't be able to dock and switch ships, so you can fit some racial jammers and look like a pro on the killboards.

There's alot of derp in this section. Amarr can easily solo any plex out there. I've soloed minors, mediums and majors. I've not run an unrestricted Major yet. I like the station lockouts. However, the 4x LP thing is harsh for them po' folks. I can see the scale being 1, 1.25, 1.5, 2.0. But 4x just makes me not even pay attention to LP gains.

Faction war today is a VASTLY better system than it was a month ago.

I have over 300k LP and I've only actively plexed for 2 days. WTF are you on about Muad?

Is retaking space for Amarr going to be easy? No. But I didn't join Amarr FW for EZ MODE. I am Jones Bones, savior and messiah sent from Mother Amamake to save her little Amarrian children.

If you got that isk from plexing then the shortest way for you to get that isk would be to run 10 major plexes. Assuming you could run them without ever having to travel to redock to repair and totally ideal conditions then it would take you 200 minutes. That is 3.333 hours of straight plexing. If you get 500 isk per lp - which I think would be quite hard in our horrible lp store, you would get 150 million isk for 3.333 hours of pve. 45 million isk per hour after you take the time to sort out what you need for what items in the lp store etc. High sec incursions are making 2xs that in straight isk and getting much much better lp on top of that.

Running the majors will not help the overall war effort as running minors both give equal vp as far as I know.

I've already said my one problem with the update is the 4x multiplier for LP required on the losing side. I don't think a single Minnie or Gallente or Blood Raiser (hi mom!) has said they think the 4x multiplier is CORNFLAKES GREAT! I hope Hans agrees and I'll probably try to talk to him ingame later this week about it.



If you don't run the majors, they won't respawn... The key to plexing a system is having different ship types doing the plexing so you can simultaneously run minors, mediums and majors. We got Dal/Vard/Sis up to like 7% each with just a small 6 man crew doing this for a few hours.

Agreed. I don't think anyone likes the terrible LP store multipliers, even thought 22K LP for an SFI is pretty great. (:

I have no idea what CCP wanted to accomplish with this patch but definatly not to fix FW in the long run.

Or they are far more stupid than i have ever imagined..

So they just went ahead, ignoring all well known imbalances, bugs and exploits, and implemented severe consequences into the FW system that pretty much screws over the numeric inferior side completly.

Eventually leaving them no way to earn isk, dock in low sec and in consequence no chance to retake any system.

So combined with the original FW system, that already was completly designed against amarr in terms of ship balance, npc balance, system distribution/layout and the fact that due to bad racial role play design amarr milita has always been less attractive to players than any other faction, thischanges only aim towards one goal which is to remove the amarr milita (or any milita on the loosing side) completly from the game.

And if this was not the intention of CCP then it can only mean that the people of CCP are some of the worst devs, game designers and game balancers in game history.
Its almost as if CCP does not know at all how their own game actually works.

My prediction is that once the new and shiny effect of this patch has worn off and the supply of suicidal noobs on both sides has dried up, FW will be in far worse state that it was before this patch.

Fcs on the amarr side will burn out fast and no one will run fleets anymore.
After that Amarr Milita will probably become mostly inactive with the exception of a few die hards that will not care about plexing (since the LP rewards are useless with this store prices) and try to roam around in small/fast gangs to pick off lone WTs.

After that caldari milita will have to fight the combined blobs of gallente and minmatar which they will probably not have any chance of beating and that will slowly bring them towards the same end as the amarr milita.

Minmatar and Gallente militas will be flooded with farming carebears and the amount of stealth bombers running around low sec would blot out all suns IF they were not cloaked most of the time ;)

And with the Empyrean Age (imo the best expansion eve ever had) will come to an end.

Unfortunatly the only effective way to communicate with CCP is through the cancel button in the account management which i have used 3 times recently.

And to those the still cling to the hope of CCP fixing the bugs, imbalances and the promise to keep iterating on FW i can only say:

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

CCP never thinks long term and in short terms this patch might actually look like a success.
So they will be pretty much done with FW and hardly do anything anymore.

It will be interesting to see how dust514 will turn out since there is unlike with eve a lot of competition out there.

But since CCPs strategy seems not to be to attract new players but instead just keep milking their existing ones by making them buy more accounts (T3 booster alt, capital/super cap alt, industry alt, neutral hauling alt) and now even more games (dust 514) it might work out somehow for them.

And with this my final eve rant is over and all the cry more, htfu, gtfo and adapt or die replies can come ;)

I got the LP and tags in about two weeks of plexing.

just wondering how many hours you put into this, please be as accurate as you can thanks.

Funny thing is I hear people laughing in minmatar about how cheap Fleet issue and Republic fleet mods are.

And Amarr complaining about how worthless their LP is because it costs them 180K LP to get a navy Omen.

Did you see the price of Amarr Navy ships mods/compared to Republic Fleet ships/mods?

Go Check I will wait.........

In the end their is a balance due to the supply and demand.

Minnies are shooting themselves in the foot. The other day I was offered a free SFI from my local 7/11 if I bought the new 500m/l Pepsi can instead of the old 330ml one.

bla bla bla missing the point of the thread entirely

we are fighting in fw and will continue to do so, the idea is that we could be fighting just as much and have as much fun, possibly exploding more ships on both sides if we could dock up etc.

this isnt about giving up is about improving fw like ccp and the players wanted.

locksouts are unnecessary.

I enjoy them because you are crying like a beaten child.

good for you

however unlike you im thinking about the whole of fw and its future (the reason for the thread) well done you selfish douche.

grats for thinking about your self and your own entertainment, glad i could provide some fun for you.Tell me is it hard to see the screen with your head up your arse hole?

FW is a general game play career that i care about and have a lot of time and friendships invested in, if you want to bash on me you only expose yourself as someone with nothing worthy to add but snide comments etc.

we are fighting in fw and will continue to do so, the idea is that we could be fighting just as much and have as much fun, possibly exploding more ships on both sides if we could dock up etc.

this isnt about giving up is about improving fw like ccp and the players wanted.

locksouts are unnecessary.

Yes im mad and no you cant have my stuff, mostly because i cant get to it anyways.

Run the ISK/LP numbers. Also, lower price == higher demand, which in itself causes a higher ISK/LP.

Additionally, it's not like the amarr have anything unique in FW that doesn't have a pirate equivalent that starts to look like better value once the amarr prices start to increase.

Holy **** Minmatar datacores are going to make me a zillionaire.

are they? I'm selling them at almost cost now.

1) plz stop crying ----- It changes nothing and you just look bad.

2) I have an alt in AmarrFW and so far my (limited) experience has been this-

FC spams channels for everyone to fleet up
Fleet sits in one system and doesn't move for hours
meanwhile 2 minny pilots in thrashers plex one jump away and no one in the Amarr fleet will help you stop them.



no plan
no split up and hunt/plex
just ball up and sit

great job this thread is weeks if not months old, so with all due resoect go and die in a ditch in game.

Minmatar have got weaker now goons arnt propping them up, while we still have the huge influx of alts plexing problem against amarr, we are starting to gain ground.

so **** off. thanks :)

to The Imperial Fedaykin

here is what you do,
1- leave amarr FW.
2- keep on camping auga 3rd as usual.
Problem solved.

to be honest, most of the minmatar militia stopped taking you guys seriously a very long time ago, you just sit there in auga all day long, some of your carebears go around do some missions in machariels every-now and then, you sometimes may bait with stalinorgel iteron somewhere, but other than that you never had any real impact on anything from like half a year ago since you driven everyone out of auga,
maybe only the brave and the lone wolf Mystical might who ventured all over the place in his fearsome Talos with his boost alt, but then again he left you.

so follow my advice, and go back to your old business as usual, and all will be good.
and yes iam an alt, deal with it.

Amarr significantly outnumber Minmatar now in USTZ, probably more equal now in EUTZ.
Amarr had 19 systems this past weekend, the highest they've ever had, congratulations. Shame you didn't upgrade to Tier2 and cash out a bit of LP before we took 4 back today (the 4th).
Muad, you need to stop QQing all over the forums. I never see you out in space, so I assume you're just thinking of how best to shitpost on the Eve-O forums.

Funny thing is I hear people laughing in minmatar about how cheap Fleet issue and Republic fleet mods are.

And Amarr complaining about how worthless their LP is because it costs them 180K LP to get a navy Omen.

Did you see the price of Amarr Navy ships mods/compared to Republic Fleet ships/mods?

Go Check I will wait.........

In the end their is a balance due to the supply and demand.

Minnies are shooting themselves in the foot. The other day I was offered a free SFI from my local 7/11 if I bought the new 500m/l Pepsi can instead of the old 330ml one.

You should check how much Firetails move compared to Slicers.

Just wanna say, the Minnies felt we needed more systems to dock up in, so we took FOUR yesterday.

Pardon my ignorance but I was not aware that any of the four systems in question (Sifilar, Raa, Saidu & Haras) had stations in them...

check how many minutes it takes to earn the LP for both.

However, I would note, the minmatar have been unable to get to tier 5 after the goons stopped lending a hand and the npc changes. Even after taking those 4 systems I'm not even sure minmatar can hit tier five. Even if they weren't selfish grubby fools, and donated some lp to thier systems I don't think they have enough systems to hit tier 5 anymore.

The biggest and most annoying mechanic in my opinion is the whole not being able to dock in a system controled by another milltia. It forces milltia corporations/alliances who base in low security space to fight for thier system. Otherwise moving/logistics is a pain.

After all the chestbeating about your organization it appears you guys can't even pull it together for a day to achieve a goal - without goon help.

The system control mechanics have become much more important than previous iterations. If a milltia wants to be successful a new factional warfare eviroment. More corporations/alliance in said milltias need to base in low security space. Why? Whelp!

My corporation can cover a whole constellation. That's 5 -7 systems. It's alot more convenient for an entity to defend a small area of influence. Compared to trying to contest all factional warfare systems.

Start organizing and focusing corporations and alliances towards key constellations. preferably away from the main trade hubs (Rens & Amarr). Let the larger alliances and corporations like Fweddit hold and engage around the main pipe (Kedema - Amamake). Once 5 or more Amarr corporations control thier little islands away from the main pipe. The outlook wont seem so grim. Hopefully you'll get more corporations and alliances willing to do the same.

Gallente milltia do this to a certain extent. Doubt it was their intent, but they're not able to match Caldari's abillity to PLEX. What they have done is controled key systems @ the center of Caldari and Gallente factional warfare. Caldari milltia can't displace them. It's so convenient for them to hold a constellation and Gallente have superior pvp corporations/alliances @tm. Making removing them difficult.

The biggest and most annoying mechanic in my opinion is the whole not being able to dock in a system controled by another milltia. It forces milltia corporations/alliances who base in low security space to fight for thier system. Otherwise moving/logistics is a pain.


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You there is a logical explanation for that situation Cearain. Pretty much everyone who had LP points stored up cashed out at 5 and spent everything. Its senseless to spend lps boosting random systems again until there is a critical mass of 1m LP+ militia people wanting to cash out again and then you'll probably see the tiers do a short term spike to 4. ....

All the Goon exploit achieved was to save the TLF a few million LP points to push the required numbers of systems (they had already taken) to 5. .

But only a fool expected that situation to last long into Inferno because its literally inconceivable that the Amarr side with more pilots in space would fail to quickly retake a large proportion of their pre inferno lost systems.

I have to point out to you that the Goons did not plex, either offensively or defensively. They merely upgraded systems we'd already captured. After Minmatar captured almost every available Amarr system, there was nothing left for us to do except defensively cap plexes for standings (lord knows we had enough LP). It's true that the buffer helped, but all the withdrawal have Goonswarm has done is lowered our average time spent in Tier4 and given Amarr a snowball's chance in hell of capping our systems.

But other than providing a bit of a buffer for our systems, you Amarr cannot cite your failures on Goonswarm interference. If you actually bothered to, IDK, read up on what happened, you'd realize that Goonswarm had a minimal impact on FW, and certainly did not contribute to Minmatar taking Amarr systems, which we've been doing with impunity even after Goonswarm pulled out.

Now that the Goons have pulled it, it stands to reason that Amarr will have an easier time plexing down systems, since Goonswarm will no longer be artificially buffering said systems.

The fact that Minmatar kicked your butts the past month has less to do with Goonswarm donating LP and more to do with the fact that Amarr's militia is a joke. You have a better chance now that the Fweddiblob has arrived.

There are millions of lp going to minmatar every time a system flips. Not including millions the minmatar in gallente space are getting as well as the hordes of mission runners. The lp doesn't run out. But when ccp finally balances the npcs just a tiny bit, we already see the expectations go from tier 5 to tier 4. (And is that even your own admission you anticipate it going to tier 3?)

might wanna restate that up until 7/3 they held them all rakapas fell and nen and nisuwa's contested rates are steadily going up... its only a matter of time and its not just the plex side... its mostly because your biggest defending corps Pizza, Qcats, and others moved to minnie and now cant dump LP to counteract our efforts. so keep thinking that the low sec missioners are beating you up till the day Gals lose control of all the low sec FW systems besides a few.

nen and nisuwa's contested rates are steadily going up...

When the level 5 cashout happened I think we were close to the absolutely minimum number of systems required to achieve that. You guys only need a couple of systems to make level 5 actually impossible. As I said to you earlier its kinda ridiculous to expect a situation in space that has amarr routinely outnumbering minmatar to lead to a situation where 80% of all systems remain in minmatar hands.

But the main point you neglected to address was that there is no need to maintain a high level of system upgrades unless people collectively decide its going to be a cash out day, And most people have already cashed out. Now sure, the mission runners and offensive plexers will soon get their millions again and when they do I expect short term peaks to tier IV to optimize the cash out again - but there is no benefit to maintaining tier IV at other times in the vast majority of systems....

Again I am calling this out now so that when the npc balancing is done and minmatar is washed up we will be able to see your days of tier five in the right perspective. We will know that it was because of your huge npc advantage. If that weren't the case then we would see you continue to dominmate like you did before the npc changes.

Ah well Cearain, while I continue to disagree about a number of things you say, I can understand and even empathize with the anger you feel at the way CCP has left some long-term imbalance in place (mostly from pre inferno I must say). I dunno, sometimes it does probably seem like we're playing the wrong game - but sadly for all our sense of natural justice there really isn't an alternative to an open pvp space opera game.

I guess the way you feel about faction war is similar to the way I feel about the moon-mineral exploitation in 0.0 that's led to a distorted and devalued reality there in the player-led sandbox (or more recently in the fiasco of the 1.1 wardec changes to benefit large alliances alone).

Guess what I'm trying to say is that I understand that you are angry with the game and its easy to target minmatar (as those players who have benefited in your eyes from the imbalance) don't get too bent out of shape there - not everyone is your enemy on an ooc level.

Nenna and Nisuwa are currently both 0%.

As far as Rakapas and SLAPD's relocation go, it's unfortunate that the system discourages the spreading out of home bases and instead gets people to all lump together in one or two systems. But in the end SLAPD only had a US TZ presence and the rest of the time the system got plexed.

Nenna and Nisuwa are currently both 0%.

As far as Rakapas and SLAPD's relocation go, it's unfortunate that the system discourages the spreading out of home bases and instead gets people to all lump together in one or two systems. But in the end SLAPD only had a US TZ presence and the rest of the time the system got plexed.

PRIOR PROPER PLANNING PREVENTS **** POOR PERFORMANCE - they drill that **** into the RL military mind.


IM not FW but it seems this persons problem is a lack of FW participants on the Amarr side. Am i correct?

Correct - they have the pilots - but they are too lazy to participate.

There seems to be an attitude in Amarr that they should get to hold systems have instant tier4 bonuses all without any effort and that the Caldari should come and help them while half of them shoot at us.
Caldari had to start from the backfoot when the changes came - instead of staying idle - we moved to low sec - claimed homes and defensive plexed them when needed. We still have a lot of work ahead.

One day I logged in and just decided I owned Eha - it actually helps defend it when your corp has an 'ITS MINE' attitude.
The Amarr will not get ahead until their bigger corps CEO's mindsets change and they approach the war differently.

If a few corps 'take ownership' of a system each and made that system their goal and focus for only a week - they would start finding homes and get some space back for forward bases.

Correct - they have the pilots - but they are too lazy to participate.

There seems to be an attitude in Amarr that they should get to hold systems have instant tier4 bonuses all without any effort and that the Caldari should come and help them while half of them shoot at us.
Caldari had to start from the backfoot when the changes came - instead of staying idle - we moved to low sec - claimed homes and defensive plexed them when needed. We still have a lot of work ahead.

One day I logged in and just decided I owned Eha - it actually helps defend it when your corp has an 'ITS MINE' attitude.
The Amarr will not get ahead until their bigger corps CEO's mindsets change and they approach the war differently.

If a few corps 'take ownership' of a system each and made that system their goal and focus for only a week - they would start finding homes and get some space back for forward bases.

You didn't get any lp for taking our systems. Those systems were by and large taken before inferno and it was the npc advantage that allowed you to do it. Sasawong alone has more vp than any minmatar corporation. Alt plexing is not something amarr could ever do before. But things are changing. Now the field is getting leveled and your dreams of hitting tier 5 are already fading.

No more goons to provide any semblence of organization to pitch in for a greater good. Your npc advantage was cut back (but still not close to eliminated) and now you just have your own selfish and spoiled pilots, who can't compete with amarr on anything close to equal terms and never had to. I think minmatar has nothing but bad news ahead.

Well, the funny part is while you want to sit there and harp about how we haven't hit T5, because that's all you have to say, the really embarrassing thing is that we can even debate about Minmatar hitting T5 - but even with the NPC rebalance and Goons pulling out, Amarr... still fails miserably to even T2 or take back any of their systems.

The damage to FW as a pvp focused game career with isk funding through activity within it, is irreparable at this point.

Well, the funny part is while you want to sit there and harp about how we haven't hit T5, because that's all you have to say, the really embarrassing thing is that we can even debate about Minmatar hitting T5 - but even with the NPC rebalance and Goons pulling out, Amarr... still fails miserably to even T2 or take back any of their systems.

good post pinky: however most of the problems WERE complained about BEFORE inferno AT the testing stage.

If they didnt listen then and we are stuck like this: will they listen when they can be bothered to do somthing and just how long is that going to take.

My thoughts are that they will not revisit FW (unless goons pull another genius exploit of course) for a long long time, which while things are stuck is going to be tough on the people in FW that are not enjoying their play time.

Just keep in mind that FW had a healthy pvp/fun track record before inferno turned into pve-sovcursions.

There isn't any question as to whether they are going to work more on Faction Warfare. They are, whether you believe them or not :) Posts like this just derail productive conversations, lets stop with the does-CCP-really-care nonsense and just stick to actually talking about the issues at hand.

If you're concerned with FW becoming more like "pve-sovcursions", I STRONGLY suggest you head over to the Dev-monitored thread for NPC feedback, the consensus in the FW community right now is actually to mandate MORE PvE, not less. I personally loathe the idea of forcing any FW pilot to PvE to participate in Sovereignty, it should be PvP in a perfect world. The problem is everyone is focused on asking for forced-PvE solutions, not spending their time coming up with an effective PvP-based solution instead.

If thats what the community wants, they'll very likely get that. CCP's already looking into ways to beef up the PvE-side and make it more challenging. But if shooting rats isn't how you want to take Sov, SPEAK UP, because there's far more people asking for forced-PvE right now and I'm very much afraid we'll get what we ask for during the Winter Expansion (which will include more FW iterations) and than be stuck with it, like you say.

Well, the funny part is while you want to sit there and harp about how we haven't hit T5, because that's all you have to say, the really embarrassing thing is that we can even debate about Minmatar hitting T5 - but even with the NPC rebalance and Goons pulling out, Amarr... still fails miserably to even T2 or take back any of their systems.

There isn't any question as to whether they are going to work more on Faction Warfare. They are, whether you believe them or not :) Posts like this just derail productive conversations, lets stop with the does-CCP-really-care nonsense and just stick to actually talking about the issues at hand.

If you're concerned with FW becoming more like "pve-sovcursions", I STRONGLY suggest you head over to the Dev-monitored thread for NPC feedback, the consensus in the FW community right now is actually to mandate MORE PvE, not less. I personally loathe the idea of forcing any FW pilot to PvE to participate in Sovereignty, it should be PvP in a perfect world. The problem is everyone is focused on asking for forced-PvE solutions, not spending their time coming up with an effective PvP-based solution instead.

If thats what the community wants, they'll very likely get that. CCP's already looking into ways to beef up the PvE-side and make it more challenging. But if shooting rats isn't how you want to take Sov, SPEAK UP, because there's far more people asking for forced-PvE right now and I'm very much afraid we'll get what we ask for during the Winter Expansion (which will include more FW iterations) and than be stuck with it, like you say.

As I said to you earlier its kinda ridiculous to expect a situation in space that has amarr routinely outnumbering minmatar to lead to a situation where 80% of all systems remain in minmatar hands.

I would be hesistant to assume that the community wants more PVE simply because thats what is more vocal on the forums. Carebears and people who generally more concerned about their wallets tend to be more prolific posters on the forums and also tend to be more isolated as far as their views not representing any sort of large group but only themselves, where out of a 100 man PVP alliance, you might have only 1-2 representatives from that organization that actually posts on the forums.

If you want to go purely off the forums and the numbers of people who post, you would walk away with the picture that the community does not support non-consensual PVP. Cmon bro.

You have contacts within each militias leadership structures. Are you saying that rather than having a smaller number of people who actually understand game mechanics talk to you directly, it would be better and more effective to spam alliance mails telling mass numbers of people to post in that thread saying "no" to forced PVE and treating it as a ballot box instead?

How do you come to the conclusion that Amarr outnumber Minmatar? Last I checked Minmatar had more members than Amarr and with current imbalance do you really think this will even out in the future?

But lets assume we really did outnumber you. Do you still think our thrashers are even against your faction cruisers?

I can see that you like the current situation and want to think that you are this good. But it is only self-serving bias and it actually makes you stupid.

But I am speaking of confrontations in space, that I've been part of, where I've seen the Amarrian side quite capable of significantly outnumbering the Minmatar fleets.

Now maybe that won't always be the case - who knows, but I do know on current evidence of capability the Minmatar do not have a fleet advantage of 5-1 over the 24th (which is what you'd logically expect to be the case to see 80% domination of FW systems).

you are outnumbered - like everybody else. And how many SFIs do you really need to take out a few T1 fit thrashers?

I would be hesistant to assume that the community wants more PVE simply because thats what is more vocal on the forums. Carebears and people who generally more concerned about their wallets tend to be more prolific posters on the forums and also tend to be more isolated as far as their views not representing any sort of large group but only themselves, where out of a 100 man PVP alliance, you might have only 1-2 representatives from that organization that actually posts on the forums.

If you want to go purely off the forums and the numbers of people who post, you would walk away with the picture that the community does not support non-consensual PVP. Cmon bro.

You have contacts within each militias leadership structures. Are you saying that rather than having a smaller number of people who actually understand game mechanics talk to you directly, it would be better and more effective to spam alliance mails telling mass numbers of people to post in that thread saying "no" to forced PVE and treating it as a ballot box instead?

There just isn't much debate over the fact that more of you would rather see the end of speed-farming of plexes by AFK non-combat frigs, even if it means the introduction of forced rat-shooting.

And you have no idea why players are so vocal about this do you? The truth is that FW is completely broken and the above suggestion was the easiest fix that we could think of that had the possibility to be implemented this summer. If you have a better idea that can make it quickly to TQ please go ahead and speak up!

The game is broken but there is a workaround for Amarr and it is to roll a Minmatar alt and farm Amarr plexes. Thus, to be able to support FW activity in Amarr we are supposed to help our enemy claim our own territory. Add to that the horde of carebear farmers drawn to Minmatar militia for easy plexing further helping Minmatar claim territory from Amarr. With these mechanisms in place it is impossible for Amarr to win the war or even make any reasonable ISK from our LP and FW as such becomes pointless. Yes, we can still use FW as an arena for PvP but we have to fund it with Gé¼Gé¼/GTC or grind ISK on an alt.

It is just sad that our CSM representative is so blind to this fact (or choose to ignore it). Maybe because the imbalance works differently for you?

[quote=Hans Jagerblitzen]The truth is that FW is completely broken and the above suggestion was the easiest fix that we could think of that had the possibility to be implemented this summer. If you have a better idea that can make it quickly to TQ please go ahead and speak up!

Everything would have been fine if they just phoned Damar and Bad Messenger and told them to get together 4-5 guys who know FW mechanics before they even started working on Inferno. We told them farmville was coming but of course they didnt listen. They never do...

Hans, when do you see it fit to have CCP correct "Valsploit"* (Nennamaila incident will never be forgotten or forgiven) or are you content to let them deem it "working as intended" and have your farming alts in Caldari space continue abusing it to annoy people who take the effort of chasing your farmers out of plexes. Oh right, you are Hans. You wont.

*Turning Caldari (or any militia) NPCs to fire on friendly militia members inside a plex.

Just so everyone's clear, I do NOT consider the forums to be the end-all source of feedback from the community. Forum consensus does NOT necessarily mean community consensus, I spend an enormous time reading all of your blogs, talking with Faction Warfare players in-game, via email, on various militia teamspeak servers, twitter (@hansshotfirst), and on Skype. (My Skype name, for those that want to hit me up 24/7 - is Hans.Jagerblitzen)
...... walls of texts .

So let's take this "Valsploit". Are you referring to the fact that standings can affect whether the rats shoot you, allowing a member with high standings to avoid rat aggro even from enemy NPC's? Or is this something different..... Whichever issue you are referring to, I need information more than just "turning npcs to fire on friendly militia" to do anything about it.

I'm also absolutely sympathetic with the LP store situation, one of my biggest frustrations is that while we finally achieved a form of sustainable PvP in Faction Warfare, it's turning out to be sustainable for only one or two of the four factions. Just this weekend we recorded a round-table Podcast with leaders from all four militias, including Rina of Fweddit, and one of the popular ideas that has emerged is to flip the LP-store scaling so that prices in the store are fixed, but the payouts themselves end up scaling based on warzone control.

This would not only make the Amarrian LP much less worthless (prices would hold at pre-inferno levels), it would also put pressure on the Minmatar to defend their space and upgrade their systems, as we would be unable to "spike" the market. If you pushed us down into tier 4 or tier 3, it would hurt right away as we lost our mission payouts, rather than us ignoring it as we do right now until we coordinate a market drop and reap the full benefits all at once. Carebears couldn't just run missions all day and cash out at tier 5 no matter what the warzone did, if we were losing plexes, their mission payouts would drop by half each tier, forcing them to get involved in the war or to find other pastures to farm. I think its a fantastic idea,(though there's a few wrinkles to iron out with it) and I hope others take interest in it as well.

It would be nice if we had a single thread with some idea of what you, the only current csm member who ever posted in a fw thread outside of election time, were thinking might be good suggestions to bring to ccp. That way we wouldn't have to follow every blog, chatroom, podcast, let alone the hundreds of different threads here, to find out what ideas you intend to raise.

That way we could discuss them in a single thread and perhaps actually think through an idea instead of having the same ones come up again in different threads with no reference to the problems that were mentioned in those other threads.

We already have ccp's threads on npcs balance and new system upgrade ideas. But this doesn't cover the crux of the issues. Perahps you could start a thread where you give us what you are thinking that way we could discuss it with you.