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WeaponsHot	Posted - 2009.08.21 19:58:00 - [121] Edited by: WeaponsHot on 21/08/2009 19:58:22 Originally by: Insa Rexion read this fool And who is more fool? Isn't the one that says that other is?
Insa Rexion Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.08.21 20:03:00 - [122] Originally by: WeaponsHot Edited by: WeaponsHot on 21/08/2009 19:58:22 Originally by: Insa Rexion read this fool And who is more fool? Isn't the one that says that other is? I think you you refer to this quote (incorectly AGAIN) - Obi-Wan: Who's the more foolish: The fool, or the fool who follows him? ... you really need to work on your understanding of the English language dude. I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit	Posted - 2009.08.21 20:09:00 - [123] More professional salvagers can only be good for the rig market.
Thyro X0-1 Industries	Posted - 2009.08.21 21:00:00 - [124] Edited by: Thyro on 21/08/2009 21:01:53 this so called mini-profession leads to different problems.
Izztyrr Maemtor Caldari Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.21 21:13:00 - [125] Originally by: Thyro Edited by: Thyro on 21/08/2009 21:01:53 this so called mini-profession leads to different problems. Problems? There is only one problem and here it is. People come to EvE bringing with them a mindset from other games they've played before. What they fail to understand is that EvE is unlike any game that they've played before. Once they wrap their heads around the fact. Then they can see the game for what it is and enjoy it. All the rest need to go back to elf and fairy land.
Jin Nib	Posted - 2009.08.21 21:14:00 - [126] Originally by: Insa Rexion Originally by: WeaponsHot Edited by: WeaponsHot on 21/08/2009 19:58:22 Originally by: Insa Rexion read this fool And who is more fool? Isn't the one that says that other is? I think you you refer to this quote (incorectly AGAIN) - Obi-Wan: Who's the more foolish: The fool, or the fool who follows him? ... you really need to work on your understanding of the English language dude. Minor point here, but since he didn't use quotation marks or attribute the quote it can't be incorrect. Reason being it's not a quote. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
WeaponsHot	Posted - 2009.08.21 21:25:00 - [127] Edited by: WeaponsHot on 21/08/2009 21:30:54 Originally by: Insa Rexion Originally by: WeaponsHot Edited by: WeaponsHot on 21/08/2009 19:58:22 Originally by: Insa Rexion read this fool And who is more fool? Isn't the one that says that other is? I think you you refer to this quote (incorectly AGAIN) - Obi-Wan: Who's the more foolish: The fool, or the fool who follows him? ... you really need to work on your understanding of the English language dude. No dude, I was clearly indicating... that a fool that points to other fool isn't less fool than the other... and I don't think this is hard to understand. And thanks for the compliment on the english matter But lets change language to more cleaner way and in line with topic. In which part of the golden rules does clearly mention the word "concord"? Would be this one? "...An exploit is when someone bypasses normal game mechanics, such as by utilizing a bug in the game, allowing him to take advantage of other players without them having any means of preventing it whatsoever..." Ok! Then lets see... Concord is not a bug! If it is bug then CCP please remove the bugged "KonKorden-or-not" before DUST comes along Now the exploiting claim "By warping away from concord" The coded game mechanics makes concord to follow the player to where he warped in matter of seconds and in range of the player. Therefore the player is not breaking any game mechanic there either (the so called ...bypassing the normal game mechanics...) Certainly players warp away from mission's NCPs in case face stronger force and concord/navy/customs are all part of the same game mechanics. Now lets re-read the following rule wording and address other issues... "...allowing him (player) to take advantage of other players without them having any means of preventing it whatsoever..." Now lets recap on the so called SALVAGING claiming not be an EXPLOIT Something is clearly wrong here! So a player grabs a wreck that doesn't belong to him... In that case it automatically goes against the rule worded: "... take advantage of other players without them having any means of preventing it whatsoever..." Therefore whatever CCP/devs/whoever claims not be, is in FACT an EXPLOIT. Now if CCP/DEV/GMs/Whoever deserve some credit claiming otherwise then I suggest CCP to re-word the game rules because even them are going against the rules set by them so in this case allowing an EXPLOIT to happen! Tah! Tah!
Thyro X0-1 Industries	Posted - 2009.08.21 21:38:00 - [128] Originally by: Izztyrr Maemtor Originally by: Thyro Edited by: Thyro on 21/08/2009 21:01:53 this so called mini-profession leads to different problems. Problems? There is only one problem and here it is. People come to EvE bringing with them a mindset from other games they've played before. What they fail to understand is that EvE is unlike any game that they've played before. Once they wrap their heads around the fact. Then they can see the game for what it is and enjoy it. All the rest need to go back to elf and fairy land. Well not sure what an elf is but for sure you seem too familiar with them. So good luck! Yes as I mentioned it leads to other problems as such as causing grief to players beside exploiting their own missions. BTW I suggest you to have an adult conversation otherwise don't even bother to enter any word.
Izztyrr Maemtor Caldari Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.21 21:55:00 - [129] Originally by: Thyro Originally by: Izztyrr Maemtor Originally by: Thyro Edited by: Thyro on 21/08/2009 21:01:53 this so called mini-profession leads to different problems. Problems? There is only one problem and here it is. People come to EvE bringing with them a mindset from other games they've played before. What they fail to understand is that EvE is unlike any game that they've played before. Once they wrap their heads around the fact. Then they can see the game for what it is and enjoy it. All the rest need to go back to elf and fairy land. Well not sure what an elf is but for sure you seem too familiar with them. So good luck! Yes as I mentioned it leads to other problems as such as causing grief to players beside exploiting their own missions. BTW I suggest you to have an adult conversation otherwise don't even bother to enter any word. I suggest you put on your adult reading glasses. You may think of salvaging as an exploit but CCP doesn't. Therefore it is not an exploit. Grief play? What exactly is grief play? One person's idea of grief play may be another's harmless fun.
WeaponsHot	Posted - 2009.08.21 21:59:00 - [130] Edited by: WeaponsHot on 21/08/2009 22:00:22 Originally by: Izztyrr Maemtor Originally by: Thyro Originally by: Izztyrr Maemtor Originally by: Thyro Edited by: Thyro on 21/08/2009 21:01:53 this so called mini-profession leads to different problems. Problems? There is only one problem and here it is. People come to EvE bringing with them a mindset from other games they've played before. What they fail to understand is that EvE is unlike any game that they've played before. Once they wrap their heads around the fact. Then they can see the game for what it is and enjoy it. All the rest need to go back to elf and fairy land. Well not sure what an elf is but for sure you seem too familiar with them. So good luck! Yes as I mentioned it leads to other problems as such as causing grief to players beside exploiting their own missions. BTW I suggest you to have an adult conversation otherwise don't even bother to enter any word. I suggest you put on your adult reading glasses. You may think of salvaging as an exploit but CCP doesn't. Therefore it is not an exploit. Grief play? What exactly is grief play? One person's idea of grief play may be another's harmless fun. Attending to game rules set by CCP it IS AN EXPLOIT! LOL
Izztyrr Maemtor Caldari Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.21 22:42:00 - [131] Originally by: WeaponsHot Attending to game rules set by CCP it IS AN EXPLOIT! LOL Only when you think you're still in elf and fairy land.
WeaponsHot	Posted - 2009.08.21 23:04:00 - [132] Edited by: WeaponsHot on 21/08/2009 23:04:42 Originally by: Izztyrr Maemtor Originally by: WeaponsHot Attending to game rules set by CCP it IS AN EXPLOIT! LOL Only when you think you're still in elf and fairy land. LOL that must be some fixation of erotic nature can someone call Sigmund Freud urgently!!! He might be interested to study this case
Jer Bu	Posted - 2009.08.21 23:22:00 - [133] The whole idea of the loot being yours but the salvage not being yours is pretty flawed. The cargo is in the salvage... what separates it from the metal itself? F or many people, that wreckage is more valuable than the loot inside. That wreckage IS their loot. The problem is that Eve has inherited this idea of "loot rights" from other games, and now has to balance that with this new salvage system. They need to just bite the bullet and fix the problem. From now on, loot AND salvage should be fair game for anyone.
Sophia Truthspeaker Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2009.08.21 23:25:00 - [134] Originally by: WeaponsHot Something is clearly wrong here! So a player grabs a wreck that doesn't belong to him... In that case it automatically goes against the rule worded: "... take advantage of other players without them having any means of preventing it whatsoever..." Therefore whatever CCP/devs/whoever claims not be, is in FACT an EXPLOIT. Now if CCP/DEV/GMs/Whoever deserve some credit claiming otherwise then I suggest CCP to re-word the game rules because even them are going against the rules set by them so in this case allowing an EXPLOIT to happen! Here are your mistakes: - the wreck isn't belonging to you. Normally you shouldn't be able to use a tractor beam on it either. - you can prevent it. There have already been lots of suggestions what to do. - exploit is, what CCP deems to be an exploit. Salvaging isn't deemed one. _________ The truth is out there
Izztyrr Maemtor Caldari Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.21 23:28:00 - [135] Originally by: Jer Bu The whole idea of the loot being yours but the salvage not being yours is pretty flawed. The cargo is in the salvage... what separates it from the metal itself? F or many people, that wreckage is more valuable than the loot inside. That wreckage IS their loot. The problem is that Eve has inherited this idea of "loot rights" from other games, and now has to balance that with this new salvage system. They need to just bite the bullet and fix the problem. From now on, loot AND salvage should be fair game for anyone. Well said Sir. I concur. The problem for many is the idea of loot rights from other games.
Pandemonium Heresy Amarr Interstellar Commodity and Product Exchange	Posted - 2009.08.21 23:39:00 - [136] Originally by: WeaponsHot Therefore whatever CCP/devs/whoever claims not be, is in FACT an EXPLOIT. Now if CCP/DEV/GMs/Whoever deserve some credit claiming otherwise then I suggest CCP to re-word the game rules because even them are going against the rules set by them so in this case allowing an EXPLOIT to happen! Tah! Tah! The wrecks are not anyones but the owner of the ship, assuming that person is not an NPC. Your reasoning is based on the assumption that the wreck is yours because you destroyed that ship, it isn't. Tah Dah! _________________________________________________ FOR THE SLAUGHTER!
WeaponsHot	Posted - 2009.08.21 23:51:00 - [137] Originally by: Sophia Truthspeaker - exploit is, what CCP deems to be an exploit. Salvaging isn't deemed one. Agree to differ! By allowing such duality with SALVAGING, It also allows anyone to access someone's else missions. Of course this is good for PK/pirates no doubt, because won't be necessary to gatecamps to get their opportunities. So here enters a grey area, not only SALVAGING is questionable but then someonelse's mission can be either disrupped or completly compromised by players that are exploring the situation (lack or not of correct game mechanics). Now if this isn't deem exploit because lack of correct game mechanics then EVE becomes a game which can easily rebranded from EVE-online to GRIEF-online. Current game mechanics and this duality of rules is calling for more trouble. But again good for some bad for others. Certainly bad for CCP duality of criteria regading the rules. Either leave salvage as it is and apply same for loot or get both under same rule.
HeywoodJ BloMe	Posted - 2009.08.22 00:53:00 - [138] I love to ninja salvage people. Sometimes they hit the mish trigger just to try to kill me. But I tank the puny mish ships and still clean thier wrecks. They come back and I am still there. LOL I love doing that to people. I also don't do it for the money. Sure the money is nice, but I like doing it more because I like to harvest carebear tears. Its what makes my ship pew pew better. I also love to rattle the chains of those on the forums who think salvaging your wrecks should be considered an exploit. Well quite frankly, I will continue to do so. Listening to all you cry and cry just makes me get all hot and flustered. ;) Thank you. I should thank more of you cry babies.
Iria Ahrens Amarr 101st Space Marine Force Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.08.22 01:34:00 - [139] Originally by: Jer Bu The whole idea of the loot being yours but the salvage not being yours is pretty flawed. The cargo is in the salvage... what separates it from the metal itself? F or many people, that wreckage is more valuable than the loot inside. That wreckage IS their loot. The problem is that Eve has inherited this idea of "loot rights" from other games, and now has to balance that with this new salvage system. They need to just bite the bullet and fix the problem. From now on, loot AND salvage should be fair game for anyone. I'm for that. And I don't ninja loot. -- EVE is about balls, brains, and paranoia. SP comes in a distant fourth place.
Pandemonium Heresy Amarr Interstellar Commodity and Product Exchange	Posted - 2009.08.22 01:36:00 - [140] Yeah I like ninja salvaging too. I don't even sell the salvage, I just hoard it. _________________________________________________ FOR THE SLAUGHTER!
Zed Jackelope Insert Obscure Latin Name	Posted - 2009.08.22 02:01:00 - [141] Originally by: WeaponsHot Something is clearly wrong here! So a player grabs a wreck that doesn't belong to him... In that case it automatically goes against the rule worded: "... take advantage of other players without them having any means of preventing it whatsoever..." Wrecks belong to NO ONE. not the person that destroyed the ship, not the person that owned the ship, not even mother theresa. no one owns the wreck therefore no one is stealing the salvage. oh yeah: Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. Originally by: Awesome Possum Ban in place for using inappropriate language and evading the profanity filter. When Will I be able to post again? 09/03/09
Spurty Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.08.22 02:04:00 - [142] Zed Jackelope, try nos'ing a wreck, CONCORD have a different idea. Perhaps CCP should take them to one side and have a word. If that happens, can I have my ship back please? Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails i for one, like 8's that look like 9's lol
Zed Jackelope Insert Obscure Latin Name	Posted - 2009.08.22 02:07:00 - [143] Originally by: Spurty Zed Jackelope, try nos'ing a wreck, CONCORD have a different idea. Perhaps CCP should take them to one side and have a word. If that happens, can I have my ship back please? You're right, that's a bug that needs to be fixed. Since wrecks belong to no one, then its obviously a bug. MRs can tractor them, and can destroy them without CONCORD intervention, but the salvager can't. Originally by: Awesome Possum Ban in place for using inappropriate language and evading the profanity filter. When Will I be able to post again? 09/03/09
Sophia Truthspeaker Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2009.08.22 03:17:00 - [144] Originally by: WeaponsHot Agree to differ! By allowing such duality with SALVAGING, It also allows anyone to access someone's else missions. Of course this is good for PK/pirates no doubt, because won't be necessary to gatecamps to get their opportunities. So here enters a grey area, not only SALVAGING is questionable but then someonelse's mission can be either disrupped or completly compromised by players that are exploring the situation (lack or not of correct game mechanics). The ruling is very easy and has been like this since before you and me started. You can do what you want with someone else's mission as long as you profit from it. Stealing the Damsel in Distress then jettison her and blowing up the can is griefing. Stealing her and demanding a ransom from the mission runner to get her back, isn't. _________ The truth is out there
Insa Rexion Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.08.22 06:28:00 - [145] Originally by: Jin Nib Originally by: Insa Rexion Originally by: WeaponsHot Edited by: WeaponsHot on 21/08/2009 19:58:22 Originally by: Insa Rexion read this fool And who is more fool? Isn't the one that says that other is? I think you you refer to this quote (incorectly AGAIN) - Obi-Wan: Who's the more foolish: The fool, or the fool who follows him? ... you really need to work on your understanding of the English language dude. Minor point here, but since he didn't use quotation marks or attribute the quote it can't be incorrect. Reason being it's not a quote. You too have trouble with the English language I see. You will notice I said "I think you refer to this quote". I never claimed he was directly quoting, it's patently clear I was criticizing his half assed PARAPHRASING of the quote and getting the meaning completely wrong. Can anyone on this forum read properly ? I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??
Bestofworst Worstofbest Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.08.22 06:34:00 - [146] Hold on I'll call my English teacher. ________________________________________________ My Music Posts slowly rising in quality to the decline of my dignity.
Insa Rexion Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.08.22 06:36:00 - [147] Originally by: WeaponsHot Originally by: Sophia Truthspeaker - exploit is, what CCP deems to be an exploit. Salvaging isn't deemed one. Agree to differ! By allowing such duality with SALVAGING, It also allows anyone to access someone's else missions. Of course this is good for PK/pirates no doubt, because won't be necessary to gatecamps to get their opportunities. So here enters a grey area, not only SALVAGING is questionable but then someonelse's mission can be either disrupped or completly compromised by players that are exploring the situation (lack or not of correct game mechanics). Now if this isn't deem exploit because lack of correct game mechanics then EVE becomes a game which can easily rebranded from EVE-online to GRIEF-online. Current game mechanics and this duality of rules is calling for more trouble. But again good for some bad for others. Certainly bad for CCP duality of criteria regading the rules. Either leave salvage as it is and apply same for loot or get both under same rule. You are just waffling here, there is no grey area, CCP designed it this way and by definition it is therefore not an exploit. Do you understand ? They WANT this to happen, and whether or not you think it is griefing (it's not as the player profits from it, another definition you fail to comprehend) there is no need to change the game's name from "EVE" to "Grief". YOU need to change your perception of the game we are playing and accept that it involves certain types of competetive play that are fully endorsed by the designers... one of those is salvaging. Get over it, it is as likely to be removed/changed as mission running. I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??

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