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Proxyyyy
Caldari
Aenigmata
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Posted - 2009.08.20 18:25:00 -
[1]
I would just like to open the floor to people who feel that their are serious down sides to making rigs more affordable...
Does it not bother anyone and im speaking to thoughs who enjoy solo pvp mostly. That it will in many cases make destroying ships of frigate af and bc class very difficult increasing the time it would take to destroy them. Enabling a pilot to call for support or in most cases just tank u forever unless neuts where applied but still the argument is the same the engagment would last longer.
Not only that it would seem that with added peral involved in such under taking then the only option pilots would be forced to have is flying in small gangs or large fleets to increase the chances of sucess in a short time to gtfo...
What i enjoyed about eve pvp that it was fun and fast, you have to react very fast to circumstances and environments that change very rapidly in engagements that lasted within a short time frame. "To me it was like high speed chess"
Also pvp in it self is expensive thoughs who fly as much as i do can testify to this. Introducing small rigs increases the cost of pvp by waht seems like to me 30 - 45 %. Now what fool woudnt adapted to new situations, and also buy small rigs to compete with lets say another t1 rifter pilot who in most likely is'nt so ******ed or lacks some sort of want for preservation like most " care bears/mission bears" taht they wudnt tank the fo*k out of that rifter. many wud make the same assumption, that not rigging your t1 ship "would be fail".
I would just like other people's opinion. Obviously its not just about rigs the module it self but, how it affects pvp and how pvp in general seems to be getting nerfed with these "Changes".
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Proxyyyy
Caldari
Aenigmata
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Posted - 2009.08.20 18:45:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Proxyyyy on 20/08/2009 18:48:28
 Originally by: Ecky X
45% more shield on a Rifter is not game-breaking.
Well it would be nice to just wave it off as just as simple as that, im not sure you understand what the new application of these riggs will be.
Since the new rigging system scales (3 cap control circuit1-2) will be a norm on rifters possibly most will relize that a duel repping setup will be more viable which would mean t1 frigates preforming like af's...
Small Armor Repairer II
Small Armor Repairer II
dc II
1MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Nos
Cap control circuit I
Cap control circuit I
Cap control circuit I
Mind you i didnt add the t1 cruiser class or bs cause they wont realy be affected by this the rupturewill still own its jsut that it may be duel repped, in facted i think this might bring in a new age of active tanking over buffer tanking... |
Proxyyyy
Caldari
Aenigmata
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Posted - 2009.08.20 19:06:00 -
[3]
null null Originally by: Cpt Branko
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 20/08/2009 18:42:10
Originally by: Proxyyyy
I would just like to open the floor to people who feel that their are serious down sides to making rigs more affordable...
Does it not bother anyone and im speaking to thoughs who enjoy solo pvp mostly. That it will in many cases make destroying ships of frigate af and bc class very difficult increasing the time it would take to destroy them. Enabling a pilot to call for support or in most cases just tank u forever unless neuts where applied but still the argument is the same the engagment would last longer.
I do solo PVP a lot of the time, all my BCs were always rigged (cheaply), and I do not find it the least bit gamebreaking.
You just need to fit for DPS - like you always did if you wanted to do the quick gank. The only thing which is really changed is now T1 cruisers are going to be rigged by default and therefore more potent; but they're still going to die preety quickly.
Maybe i didnt make the topic more defined ("im sorry") this realy only affects thoughs in low and null sec. Mind you Bydi is a feared group in low sec "(much respect)" and for good reason u guys are known gankers, i see you guys around alot in your rr'ing bs gangs and sometimes a small hac gangs. A small minority of you corp solo's, and most are well off isk wise, this is about making pvp more affordable for new players and thoughs who would like to learn about solo pvp.
As for the privateers "(respect)" but most of you are not affected by this as i do see you guys in syndicate once in awhile and traveling threw low sec. i dont think this affects you cause u guys pretty much still do hi/sec war dec's.
This realy only applies to solo pvp in low and maybe null sec... |
Proxyyyy
Caldari
Aenigmata
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Posted - 2009.08.20 19:56:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Cearain
Let me just admit that I am not a big fan of blitz chess. But I think the op does have some logic for his position but is perhaps conflating two different issues: 1)Is the game mechanic too lopsided toward tanking instead of ganking? and 2) should rigs be more affordable for small ships? These are really two different questions and should be viewed as different questions.
There are rigs to increase gank and rigs to increase tank. He is making an assumption that the rigs that increase tank are much better than the rigs that increase gank. This may be true. If we assume this is true then this change will lead to more tank. Now I don't think this is a problem, but if it is, it would seem that the way to correct the problem would be to rebalance the rig gank/tank ratio directly.
But more importantly, if you think combat should be finished faster then I think there are many other things that can be done. Looking at rigs and saying no one should be able to afford them for most of their ships is IMO misguided. The issue really does not even directly deal with rigs. Why not just make gank mods/rigs/ship bonuses stronger or tank mods/rigs/ship bonuses weaker? Again if that is what you are after there are more direct routes than the somewhat convoluted method of simply making all rigs too expensive to buy for most ships.
As for me I canĘt wait for the new rigs. I think its going to be great.
Agreed...
But i my main arguments are increased cost of pvp, making rigs more afforable forces thoughs who woudnt think of rigging a t1 ship bc and lower are now forced to, and if anyone of you pvp alot you know this increase would mean less time pvp and more time making isk, than pvp'ing as for rigs everyone knows damage rigs are not even close to as usefull as thoughs that increase tank I.E. speed/active/passive
Extesion rigs for slipneir and vagabonds make sense of course...
And yes 1 of my arguments is that the gank to tank ratio will go to the later making solo/piracy pvp increasingly difficult.
For thoughs who dont know that af's can kill and are killing bc's even with neuts applied, i am now stating this facted, and making t1 frigs like af's jsut seems crazy to me, and dont get me started on the af's.
if tanks increase then in most cases you will need mroe than 1 ship to do this, meaning more small gangs/large/blobs even more common, then at a certain point it will jsut be the most people and tank online etc...
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Proxyyyy
Caldari
Aenigmata
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Posted - 2009.08.21 15:03:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Proxyyyy on 21/08/2009 15:04:10
It seem i always have to explain myself again. Competition driving force behind innovation, one person lowers their price others follow to compete.
More so for eve cause thier is not what econoist like to call value added, every module is made to a quality of and dimision that make the indisguisable from others made the deferring parties. For example; a (Pink damage controle 2) may cost more than a regular none colored damage control
Now this isnt anything new or a rare its seen everywhere in the world today. If one person buys these cheap rigs which are way more accessible it actually raises the cost associated with pvp, its like if prada made a low end hand bag for poor people which is 300 compared to 1000 it may seem like you are saving money but realy if you wudnt think about buying it before cause of cost that would cost you nothing cause its not worth it at its current price your savings are 100% while now they made a more accessible version of said brand the savings are more like 70% you spent money where before you wouldnt.
At current market prices in (Rens) t1 rigs have a (cost/building associated rigs) of around 600, 000 this is a fact. Now i base this on current component/market prices in rens, what the end products mark up will be i dont know but im lets say im supposing most people who pvp build their own rigs = /.
Then the cost increase like i said will be around 30 - 45% so essence they have increased the cost of pvp. people will have to put small rigs to compete or they fail...
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Proxyyyy
Caldari
Aenigmata
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Posted - 2009.08.21 15:17:00 -
[6]
Ok Like i said before these changes will not affect cruisers or bs class they will most likely remain the same it will just make flying cruiser i.e. none drone/missile boats fail and allow t1 frigates to increase their ability to kill ships bc and bellow...
The t1 cruiser class is the hardest to fly cause bs and below can track them and frigates can run under their tracking thanks to the web nerf...
Meh to thoughs who hav flown rifters solo low and null sec and hav killed t2 inties t1 frigates and t1 cruisers given time, you would know cap is a prob with webs applied med drones can indeed track u and catch hit you nuets can be ****ed too.
Even duel repped with cap injecter small nos and ccc the setup is not cap stable so one without ccc will be even less cap stable i know this cause ive tried the setup multiple times and its a lot of mirco'ing cap turning stuff off and on while scaning for the pwn to com = / and i primarly use it to fight t2 frigs and t1 destroyers...
So now with this new system in place a general rifter fit that did cost around 6 - 8 mill now cost 9 - 11 mill, now tell me that isnt an increase in cost to pvp...
Also i dont rig t1 stuff and laugh at the dudes i pwn who do and fail makes the ownage even mroe funny yes people rig their t1 stuff but it isnt the norm and is looked down on. Rigging t1 stuff bc and above being the acception of course, but now thanks to these "change" rigging t1 cruiser and below will be the norm "shoot im gunna do it too, got my bluprints and making them right now = )"
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Proxyyyy
Caldari
Aenigmata
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Posted - 2009.08.21 16:23:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Proxyyyy on 21/08/2009 16:23:39
First off all dibble damn U!!!!!!!!!!!!!! naw jking mind u i already know this wont affect us cause we are not short on isk, rofl u even more i wud think so flying around with ur tengu = ) i hope somone reads this and bloows it up = )
Again this has nothing to do with large/blobs fleets hi sec wars, people that engage in these activities dont even com close to pvp'ing as most in low sec do..
Not only am i in the minmatar milltia i also pirate so i do the blob thing for easy kills and if i want increased quality of fights i go solo/piracy. Now many people who know me will tell you i pvp alot 12 hours a day and cost is a concerns me even though i have alot of money, im by far not the only one that pvp's that much... "STARTING RANT NOW"
Manufactures and missioners have been boasted so many times that i always find it crazy that they com on other threads tryna flame a thread that wud like to boast a part of the game that a minority in game enjoys pirates/mercs if they still around = / and fw. "Rant DONE"
What is the issue here, like most in low sec and null sec i want more players leaving hi/sec and coming to low/sec. I would like more and new players becoming pirates/mercs/privateers and joing fw, this is about protecting pvp cause im not the only one realizing that its getting worse and worse.
Im concerned that for newer players the cost of pvp went up, which means less time learning the art and enjoying it.
The fact that the dudes that talk about pvp on forums only every realy did it in a fleet and dont know that t1 frigs are beating taranis's and other interceptors beacause of the scram boast. they dont or cant believe its possible for a t1 frigate to beat a t2 hac LULZ they dont know that in most cases its better to fly a t1 counter part that t2 well atleast more cost affective. destroyers are still considerd garbage but thrashers hav been pwning t2 frigs for a while now in most cases realy only in large fleets its better to fly a destroyer than an assault ship.
Same with cruisers ruptures and hav been pwning hacs/recons for a while now and thats not saying much when u catch them = /
Pvp is fun at times hard most of the time and exciting you that you couldnt imaging jsut by reading and hearing about it, Solo pvp is like a club for the elite which is fun i guess = / but so little people realy do it you become a rarity in a game where most people do the others profession or hav done it at one point.
Most manufactures and pilots that have done the whole boring 0.0 thing have ended their eve careers in low sec pirating and being mercs jsut pvp'ing in general and will telll you that they should have done it from the beginning.
The title of this thread wasnt as over the top as i was first gunna write it at first i was gunna vent but then i was like u know its a forum and this is my first thread made ever on these boards cause i dont do the forum thing and before this thread i only posted 3 times ever before this.
when i was thinking bout making this thread at first i thought i was jsut angry and maybe crazy but turns out im not and other people see it = )
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