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molesk1ne
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Posted - 2009.08.21 15:38:00 -
[1]
Does anyone have any suggestions about how to make a balanced DPS/Tank candy from this ship? As far as I see there is little sence in buying it atm... mb i'm wrong...
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khazak mokl
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Posted - 2009.08.21 19:34:00 -
[2]
Originally by: molesk1ne Does anyone have any suggestions about how to make a balanced DPS/Tank candy from this ship? As far as I see there is little sence in buying it atm... mb i'm wrong...
what r u gonna use it for first?
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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.08.21 19:37:00 -
[3]
Originally by: molesk1ne Does anyone have any suggestions about how to make a balanced DPS/Tank candy from this ship? As far as I see there is little sence in buying it atm... mb i'm wrong...
Word on the ship lanes is that HAM super plated Legion works. Lasers are lols tho on it.
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Bazuka
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Posted - 2009.08.21 20:21:00 -
[4]
Yeah, doing 750 DPS with a lasers fited cruiser is lol. Um hum. ___________
CareMyBear! |
Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.08.21 20:24:00 -
[5]
In before "legion is the worst t3".
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
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Posted - 2009.08.21 20:25:00 -
[6]
I use two configurations: Super Zealot and Super Sacrilege. (note that those stats are with my skills, not All V and include a lg slave set aswell as a 5% turret CPU hardwiring; my sub skills are at 3 except for defensive and offensive which are at 4). ----------------------
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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.08.21 21:05:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Bazuka Yeah, doing 750 DPS with a lasers fited cruiser is lol. Um hum.
It is when you look at the rest of the ship
Legion is rahter poor comapred to the Amarr T2s and other T3.
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ReePeR McAllem
The Carebear Stare
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Posted - 2009.08.21 23:14:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jin Entres I use two configurations: Super Zealot and Super Sacrilege. (note that those stats are with my skills, not All V and include a lg slave set aswell as a 5% turret CPU hardwiring; my sub skills are at 3 except for defensive and offensive which are at 4).
Both fits are meh, not a 'super' improvement from the regular zealot tbh, just the additional buffer. And the Sacrilegion has less dps than a sac with slightly better tank.
Fail for a T3.
I am working on a fit still but; so far Legion is either super tanker or dps paper-bag
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Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
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Posted - 2009.08.21 23:24:00 -
[9]
Originally by: ReePeR McAllem
Originally by: Jin Entres I use two configurations: Super Zealot and Super Sacrilege. (note that those stats are with my skills, not All V and include a lg slave set aswell as a 5% turret CPU hardwiring; my sub skills are at 3 except for defensive and offensive which are at 4).
Both fits are meh, not a 'super' improvement from the regular zealot tbh, just the additional buffer. And the Sacrilegion has less dps than a sac with slightly better tank.
Fail for a T3.
I am working on a fit still but; so far Legion is either super tanker or dps paper-bag
The sac has less dps because I only have level 4 heavy assaults (and less than perfect missile skills in general). Compared to what a Tengu or a Proteus offers, I certainly agree that Legion is lacking. It is still, however, offering significant improvements over a zealot or a sacri, though. That zealot fit for instance has almost twice the EHP of a similarly fit zealot (which faces fitting issues aswell), has an additional midslot for tracking disrupting which further increases its survivability and has a built-in sensor booster aswell as a ship bonus for reduced heat damage.
The sac imitation is similarly superior in many respects.
I think the fact that Proteus and Tengu are so imba overshadows the usefulness of Legion (and Loki). When T3 cruisers and first stats about them were announced, I was convinced they were not worth getting and would barely provide any improvement over HACs and recons, even at the projected cheap price of 300 mil. But I'll now admit that they do offer distinct advantage: to have twice the EHP alone would be a lot. The improvements are relatively speaking probably better than faction/pirate battleships offer over regular battleships and their tenfold price is well justified for many. ----------------------
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TimMc
Gallente Brutal Deliverance Novus Auctorita
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Posted - 2009.08.21 23:55:00 -
[10]
I like big buffers and I cannot lie...
[Legion, Plated missiles] Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
10MN Afterburner II Shadow Serpentis Warp Scrambler X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Tracking Disruptor II, Tracking Speed Disruption
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I
Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating Legion Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network Legion Engineering - Supplemental Coolant Injector Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.08.22 01:33:00 -
[11]
In after "legion is the worst t3".
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
molesk1ne
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Posted - 2009.08.22 01:53:00 -
[12]
So.... I see that nothing particulary good could be found in Legion... Realy sorry 4 that,,,
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.08.22 02:23:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 22/08/2009 02:24:20 Yeah, it's probably best to skip the Legion. For its cost, it's simply an inferior ship. The dual plate bait/buffer setup is the only remotely interesting thing it can do, and that alone does not justify its price.
The nos/neut subsystem is a joke. The drone sub is toothless and impotent, yet remains the only way for the Legion to field drones. With lasers, it barely scrapes ahead of a Zealot in DPS, dies to the first interceptor or neut ship it runs across, and lags behind dirt cheap battlecruisers (which can also be double-plated.)
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xxxak
Caldari No Limit Productions Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.08.22 03:15:00 -
[14]
Originally by: TimMc I like big buffers and I cannot lie...
[Legion, Plated missiles] Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
10MN Afterburner II Shadow Serpentis Warp Scrambler X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Tracking Disruptor II, Tracking Speed Disruption
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I
Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating Legion Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network Legion Engineering - Supplemental Coolant Injector Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
lol!!! how slowwww is that fit? and slow to warp
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Bazuka
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Posted - 2009.08.22 06:10:00 -
[15]
Ok ok. Legion sux. Lets all unite and demand a Legion boost. amirite? ___________
CareMyBear! |
Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.08.22 07:30:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 22/08/2009 07:30:30
Originally by: Jin Entres I use two configurations: Super Zealot and Super Sacrilege. (note that those stats are with my skills, not All V and include a lg slave set aswell as a 5% turret CPU hardwiring; my sub skills are at 3 except for defensive and offensive which are at 4).
Never piloted t3 myself (only eft warriored) but... how did you manage to screw em up so bad?
Zealot style one has less DPS than scorch zealot (and thats when using AN multi O_o). Hell, its less than my beam zealot setup i use on TQ. Sure it does have nice buffer but then its slow like hell and most absolutions should just eat it alive.
Sacri one is even worse... with 320dps you wont kill anything before support comes. Also use power core multipler for +1 launcher. Still i found legion lacking over sacri. Sacris 25% resist and super capacitor recharge is quite nice. its hard to get something better out of t3.
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Korell Nova
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Posted - 2009.08.22 07:34:00 -
[17]
yes the legion sucks i fly mine alot and would have to agree. the fix extra turret slot lots more powergrid oh and an extra low whilst u are at it.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.08.22 13:22:00 -
[18]
I weep for the state of this vessel.
Weep.
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Stargazer Monk
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Posted - 2009.08.22 14:36:00 -
[19]
Combat in EVE is situational no matter what you fly. Personally I think the Legion is pretty decent for a T3 ship considering the advantages of the class. I don't fly the others so I can't compare them properly. Seems like the EFT warriors are the only ones comparing them...as usual. Although the only fits I like myself are the Sac variant for PvP and the Zealot variant for lvl4s.
It's also worth noting that you can get hulls for 260m-290m and subs from 60m-80m in the trade hubs and even cheaper with a bit of leg work if buying them off the market...and well, if you or your corp/alliance make them its not too bad at all.
PVP
LOW 2x 1600mm Rolled Tungsten Plates 2x Faction EANM 2x Faction BCU
MID 1x 10MN MWD II 1x Target Painter II 1x Warp Disruptor II 1x Sensor Booster II / ECCM II
HIGH 6x HAM II
RIGS 2x Trimark 1x Anti-Therm
Augmented Plating Tactical Targeting Network Chassis Optimization Power Core Multiplier Assault Optimization
630+dps, pretty much neut proof (like the Sac variant), 1250m/s, 73/72/80/89 and 40k armor with LG slaves.
PVE
LOW 1x Faction / Deadspace MAR 2x Faction / Deadspace EANM 3x Faction HS
MID 1x Faction / Deadspace AB 2x Faction Webs 1x Large Capacitor Battery II
HIGH 6x Heavy Pulse Laser II
RIGS 1x CCC II 1x Metastasis II 1x Anti-Therm II
Nanobot Injector Tactical Targeting Network Power Core Multiplier Liquid Crystal Magnifiers Fuel Catalyst
700+dps, 75/75/81/90, 700+m/s (plenty to speed tank NPCs in lvl 4s), dual webs and Metastasis make up for lack of drones.
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Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
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Posted - 2009.08.22 14:41:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Zealot style one has less DPS than scorch zealot (and thats when using AN multi O_o). Hell, its less than my beam zealot setup i use on TQ. Sure it does have nice buffer but then its slow like hell and most absolutions should just eat it alive.
You have your figures wrong. At V skills the zealot imitation setup I posted has 399 DPS with Scorch. A Zealot with Focused Mediums has 351 DPS with Scorch (2 HS on both). Actually with V skills you can upgrade one more Focused to a Heavy on the Legion which brings the DPS to 409. I'm guessing your comparison included a Zealot with 3 heat sinks and Heavy Pulses? If so, then it is only fair to fit the same on the Legion for comparison. With such setups the Zealot will have 456 DPS and the Legion will have 493. The Legion will still without a plate have double the EHP of the Zealot.
So in the first comparison Legion does 13.67% more and in the second 8.11%. No matter which way you cut it, Legion is an improvement over a Zealot in damage.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Sacri one is even worse... with 320dps you wont kill anything before support comes. Also use power core multipler for +1 launcher. Still i found legion lacking over sacri. Sacris 25% resist and super capacitor recharge is quite nice. its hard to get something better out of t3.
In the sacri fit's case you are right that a regular Sacrilege has 13% more damage with a similar fit. But then again the tanks are wildly different. Legion has more EHP and an active tank of 440 (with T2 repper for fairness of comparison). In addition to this it gets a double heat reduction bonus (ship + sub) which is best utilised on the repper (tanks 560, MAR II) and a built in sensor booster. Legion has ~11% less agility but ~8% more velocity.
If the damage bothers you, you can simply fit more damage mods on the Legion since it has 2 lows more. You will still always end up with a better tank plus the other perks.
P.S. I'll rather take a low than a hi with launcher. 2 damage mod Legion does 5.7% more DPS than a 1 damage mod Sac so that's the difference made up right there.
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Dilbert HighSeed
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Posted - 2009.08.22 15:12:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 22/08/2009 02:24:20 Yeah, it's probably best to skip the Legion. For its cost, it's simply an inferior ship. The dual plate bait/buffer setup is the only remotely interesting thing it can do, and that alone does not justify its price.
The nos/neut subsystem is a joke. The drone sub is toothless and impotent, yet remains the only way for the Legion to field drones. With lasers, it barely scrapes ahead of a Zealot in DPS, dies to the first interceptor or neut ship it runs across, and lags behind dirt cheap battlecruisers (which can also be double-plated.)
My group is beginning stress testing of Legions vs Proteii fairly soon.
I will hold off any salient commenting on this until then, but I am curious. Do you not find 3 neuts draining 810/12 seconds, 345 DPS plus a buffer tank of 175K (before fleet bonuses and implants) an effective boat (also very cap stable)?
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.08.22 15:24:00 -
[22]
Take a closer look at the subsystem - sensor strength 13. If something with ECM so much as looks at that Legion, it won't be contributing much to the fleet short of an expensive damage sponge.
In my opinion the drone electronics sub and neut offensive sub should be rolled into one offensive module, allowing the Legion to use a few turrets, a few drones and a few neuts. Following this, the now missing neut electronics module should be replaced with something that has bonuses toward tracking disruptors. Finally, as it's pretty pathetic, the laser offensive should get +1 turret, and the missile offensive +1 launcher.
This, and this alone will allow Legion to compete. You could get either a respectable gunboat/missile ship with tracking disruptors, or a nice drone/neut/light dps setup. Right now it's just poop compared to the awesome bonuses that Tengu and Proteus and Loki get.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.22 15:25:00 -
[23]
The HAM Legion, while ti can tank a lot, is only a glorified Drake. Really.
Not worth that price to be a sitting guck :P.
Give legion some love, and this comming fomr a Caldari player :).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.08.22 15:33:00 -
[24]
It can be a Vaga with gang link.....
[Legion, Laser] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Damage Control II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers
Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I
Legion Defensive - Warfare Processor Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier Legion Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
Probartly not really worth it tho.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.08.22 15:33:00 -
[25]
Wow, he's right. I just set up a Drake with about 2/3 of the Legion's EHP, but 300 passive shield regen, identical DPS and velocity.
Jesus that's pathetic. It even has a drone bay over the Legion.
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Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
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Posted - 2009.08.22 16:06:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Wow, he's right. I just set up a Drake with about 2/3 of the Legion's EHP, but 300 passive shield regen, identical DPS and velocity.
Jesus that's pathetic. It even has a drone bay over the Legion.
Drake has twice the sig, is 30% slower, ~25% less agile, takes twice as long to lock anything and has no EW (sacrilegion can fit 2 TD).
It's only pathetic if you take a very narrow view of DPS and EHP. But since when are cruisers (even T3) supposed to be the best damage dealers?
Do all HACs not fall short of Tier 2 BC's in a similar fashion?
But yeah I absolutely agree that unlike the other races' strategic cruisers, Legion can't reasonably use its specialty recon sub and become a similarly competitive hybrid of a recon and a HAC. ----------------------
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Bazuka
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Posted - 2009.08.22 16:22:00 -
[27]
I approve a Legion boost. Lets get more Ayes in here? I`ll go first.
AYE
___________
CareMyBear! |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.08.22 18:31:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jin Entres Drake has twice the sig, is 30% slower, ~25% less agile, takes twice as long to lock anything and has no EW (sacrilegion can fit 2 TD).
It's only pathetic if you take a very narrow view of DPS and EHP. But since when are cruisers (even T3) supposed to be the best damage dealers?
Now factor the cost of the two ships in.
Sure, the Drake has a few downsides - but one ship costs 30 million, and the other costs half a billion. Is the price justified for those tiny slivers of an edge in combat performance, coupled with painting a big "SHOOT ME I'M EXPENSIVE" sign on your back?
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Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.08.22 18:44:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 22/08/2009 18:44:31
Originally by: Jin Entres
It's only pathetic if you take a very narrow view of DPS and EHP. But since when are cruisers (even T3) supposed to be the best damage dealers?
Proteus Tengu
QED
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Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
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Posted - 2009.08.22 19:55:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Now factor the cost of the two ships in.
Sure, the Drake has a few downsides - but one ship costs 30 million, and the other costs half a billion. Is the price justified for those tiny slivers of an edge in combat performance, coupled with painting a big "SHOOT ME I'M EXPENSIVE" sign on your back?
I don't know. Is the cost of a navy megathron justified over a regular megathron for those tiny slivers of an edge in combat performance, coupled with painting a big "SHOOT ME I'M EXPENSIVE" sign on your back?
I submit that the advantage gained is very similar and that people think Legion is crap because Proteus and Tengu are better. In evaluating balance between strategic cruisers, that is a concern worth addressing but that does not mean that Legion is still not a good ship compared to T2 ships. It just doesn't offer as much effectiveness for the cost and whether it does offer enough is a subjective evaluation that any buyer needs to make for themselves.
Personally, I think all T1 ships are ludicrously low risk to fly and fit -- especially now since smaller rigs were introduced. A T2 fitted and rigged Tier 2 BC represents what, maybe 30 million ISK risked? While any T2 cruiser is at least thrice that amount to replace. Is that price justified?
My point being, if your aim is to be economic, then T3 cruisers are the last place to look. ----------------------
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