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Veesil
Le Moulin Rouge
0
   |
Posted - 2012.05.31 15:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
I submit the following more as a mental exercise than a strong suggestion: Given the current mechanics and relative position of the Amarr and Minmatar factions, it is in the best interest of the Amarr militia to forego plex/sov warfare for the time being.
Consider the following:
1. Sovereignty is tied to plexing. While there are a great many PvP and PvE activities open to faction warfare participants, there is only one activity that directly affects sovereignty, and that is running faction warfare complexes. In order wrest a system from enemy control, allied factions must run complexes for approximately a day and a half under the current system, and assuming no resistance or counter-plexing, in order to make the system vulnerable. While PvP may indirectly contribute to system control, the attacking faction must spend time repeatedly orbiting the button of the defending factions complexes in order to affect the sovereignty of that system.
2. Rats in faction warfare complexes are not balanced between factions. Given equal levels of player resistance, more effort is required to capture a Minmatar plex compared to an Amarrian plex. The presence of both target painting and missiles in Minmatar faction warfare complexes make kiting or speed tanking the rats difficult at best, and can make life difficult for more conventional complex running techniques, in no small part due to the range at which Minmatar NPCs can operate. Amarrian plexes, on the other hand, are notorious for their susceptibility to speed tanking. Neither faction's complex is overly difficult, of course, but Minmatar plexes tend to require more pilots or more "ship" to contest compared to Amarr plexes.
If an equal number of pilots on both sides concentrate on plexing, it would be reasonable to expect the side that requires less effort per plex to "win" sovereignty over time. Similarly, fewer pilots are required on the side that requires less effort per plex in order to maintain a sovereignty equilibrium.
3. Faction warfare rewards are tied to sovereignty. Loyalty points are awarded for participation in faction warfare. A combination of system sovereignty and system upgrade level determine warzone control, which determines both the number of loyalty points awarded and the rate at which they can be exchanged for rewards. There are 5 levels of warzone control. A minimum number of systems must be controlled by a faction in order to increase that faction's level of warzone control. In the case of the Amarr/Minmatar warzone, a level increase requires a minimum of [14 x level] systems controlled (e.g., if a faction wanted to increase its warzone control beyond the lowest level, it could do so by first gaining sovereignty in 14 systems and then fully upgrading those systems).
The Amarr militia, with only 10 systems controlled, cannot currently advance beyond the lowest level of warzone control. Extrinsic (i.e., loyalty point) rewards are very low for the Amarr militia, and likely provides weak incentive for attraction or retention of pilots for the Amarrian faction. Conversely, the Minmatar militia controls 60 systems, giving them the potential for the highest level of warzone control (they currently hold the second-highest level), and likely provides a strong incentive for attraction and retention of pilots for the Minmatar faction.
4. There are ~1000 fewer pilots in the Amarr militia than in the Minmatar militia. It's not clear whether this translates into a lower number of active pilots, but it's likely the case. Given that more Amarrian effort is required per plex (point 2, above), and fewer Amarrian pilots are available, Amarrian pilots must spend comparatively more time plexing maintain the status quo (let alone advance their control) on a per-pilot basis.
So, if you are an Amarrian pilot and you want to compete for sovereignty, you must plex. Not only that, you must plex more than a Minmatar pilot, and the incentive you receive for doing so has roughly 1/8th the value. You plex to gain or maintain docking rights in systems that offer you missions that offer roughly 1/8th the rewards. How irrational! (Perhaps to add insult to injury, your own ships do the least effective damage against the rats you are forced to engage, meaning you are more likely to work for "the good of the Amarr" in a non-Amarrian ship. How embarassing!)
Given the above, I would guess that the short-term reality is that the Amarr faction is likely to continue to lose systems and members, with the reverse being true for the Minmatar faction. |
Veesil
Le Moulin Rouge
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 15:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
However, note:
5. Participation in faction warfare sovereignty is optional. No one has to plex if they are willing to accept the resulting outcome (i.e., a reduction in loyalty point-based income and a loss of docking rights).
Consider that a member of the Amarr militia, who can not dock in over 85% of the warzone and already have the lowest level of loyalty point income, does not have far to fall in order to reach utter defeat (from a soverignty perspective), an outcome which seems likely. Consider also that choosing to prioritize obligatory plexing over other activities represents a kind of self-imposed incarceration or, dare I say, slavery. As an alternative, Amarrian pilots could choose to move their assets out of the warzone and concentrate instead on core PvP activities. They can let the systems fall but be invigorated by the intrinsic rewards of PvP in target-rich environments.
But, the Amarr might protest, "the Minmatar are being paid more handsomly to mission, plex, and PvP - it's not fair!" First, the market should recalibrate over time based on the current multiplier for Amarrian loyalty points, increasing their relative value. An Amarrian pilot may then choose among many faction warfare activities for loyalty points, which could include plexing if that's what he or she wants. Finally,
6. There is little-to-no barrier for entry for faction warfare. If you need to earn some isk through faction warfare in the short term you can always put an alt in the Minmatar militia and run missions in the safe and dockable old Amarr faction space, then grab a couple of cheap Stabber Fleet Issues or sweet faction scrams to have some fun with or sell. This is true for anyone, including Amarrian pilots.
The Amarr/Minmatar faction war is an uphill tug-of-war. The Amarr faction can avoid burnout and frustration by letting go of the rope, and instead concentrate on more enjoyable activities. No need to disengage from faction warfare, just engage the fun parts. Amarr victor. At the same time, the Minmatar gain the highest level of warzone control and the rewards that come with it (a utopian dream that Amarrian pilots can enjoy on alts). A win for the Minmatar. If faction warfare complex npc balance or rubber-band mechanics are introduced the Amarr can re-engage the fight for sovereignty and not be too far behind their current position.
Just food for thought.
|
LooknSee
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 16:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Neither side wins a war; there are only degrees of losing.
There is room for individuals to come out ahead. However, most people, being generally terrible, will also lose. |
Vultirnus
Atlantic Evolution
17
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 16:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hm that is an interesting point. In short, and I apologize if I misunderstood your post at all, by being on the losing side of the conflict it becomes less attractive to join the conflict, thus making the losing team lose faster.
I could see how that would be a problem.
The only draw at that point would be putting down you rebels for the glory of EMPIRE! I'm also a fan of the underdogs.
"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - The Scriptures, Prophet Kuria, Paladin's Creed |
Alonzo Odantis
Talusian Trade Federation
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 16:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
LooknSee wrote:Neither side wins a war; there are only degrees of losing.
There is room for individuals to come out ahead. However, most people, being generally terrible, will also lose.
While a cute quote, it's 100% false.
|
LooknSee
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 16:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alonzo Odantis wrote:While a cute quote, it's 100% false.
While a cute reply, it's 100% false.
See what I did there???
|
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
169
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 16:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
All very valid observations were it but for one little thing: It is all based on things starting on relatively equal footing.
Alas, the Shakorites abused CCPs inability to see things through and managed to acquire their ~85% dominance while systems needed sod all time spent to flip.
Had the recent changes been implemented following a reset (or last winter), NPCs been balanced and had changes made sense (ex. missions only going to hostile space), then by the time the wheel turned and Amarr once again had numbers available the Shakorites would have had at most ~5 systems not originally theirs .. said five would have been reclaimed in a jiffy and a roughly equal number taken from their "pool" .. at which point the wheel would have turned again ..
That has been the ebb and flow of the Amarr/Shakorite front since time immemorial .. a proper tug-of-war .. destroyed by CCP's appalling ignorance/stupidity/ineptitude/inebriation. What might have been :awesome: has become a big "Thumbs Up" to buggy/lazy coding/design and the people who choose to abuse it.
Not bitter, just pissed. |
Veesil
Le Moulin Rouge
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 16:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vultirnus wrote:Hm that is an interesting point. In short, and I apologize if I misunderstood your post at all, by being on the losing side of the conflict it becomes less attractive to join the conflict, thus making the losing team lose faster.
This, but also that the "victory conditions" can be subjective. The Amarr are certainly losing from a soverignty/warzone control perspective. I think the faction warfare soverignty system may work well if implemented in 0.0, but for faction warfare both the plexes and the number of plexers need to be balanced to achieve an "endless war" with the sort of back-and-forth you could expect from a feature like this. Such a balance isn't present in the case of the Amarr/Minmatar conflict, at least in terms of plex difficulty and pilot count.
An alternative for the Amarrian pilots who carry this disproportionately heavy burden is to simply put it down and get back to basics. Fly for the kills; sov be damned. Save your Amarrian loyalty points until the market adjusts and/or join the Minmatar militia for enhanced PvE rewards. Participation in faction warfare is voluntary. Let's make sure we're having fun. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
149
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
that's it! i'm starting a winmatar FW alt. WTB 100 rifters |
Veesil
Le Moulin Rouge
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:All very valid observations were it but for one little thing: It is all based on things starting on relatively equal footing.
Alas, the Shakorites abused CCPs inability to see things through and managed to acquire their ~85% dominance while systems needed sod all time spent to flip.
Had the recent changes been implemented following a reset (or last winter), NPCs been balanced and had changes made sense (ex. missions only going to hostile space), then by the time the wheel turned and Amarr once again had numbers available the Shakorites would have had at most ~5 systems not originally theirs .. said five would have been reclaimed in a jiffy and a roughly equal number taken from their "pool" .. at which point the wheel would have turned again ..
I agree with you, but what's done is done. Today the mechanics and pilot counts are unbalanced. We can discuss the particulars of what led the Amarr/Minmatar conflict to this point and how things could have been different, but what do the Amarrian pilots do when they log on today? Endlessly orbit buttons to hold systems while they await CCP's deliverance? Or change the nature of the game, losing almost nothing in the process? |
LooknSee
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Veesil wrote:I agree with you, but what's done is done. Today the mechanics and pilot counts are unbalanced. We can discuss the particulars of what led the Amarr/Minmatar conflict to this point and how things could have been different, but what do the Amarrian pilots do when they log on today? Endlessly orbit buttons to hold systems while they await CCP's deliverance? Or change the nature of the game, losing almost nothing in the process?
You're an idiot. The 'pilot counts' have always been vastly in Caldari's favor. Since Day 1. I'd point out that there is no reason to assume the number of toons in a militia has any relationship at all to the # of pilots they have active, but I suspect that might be beyond your ability--and that of many others here--to grasp.
|
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc
INQUISITION.
63
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Very good layout of how the fw mechanics work however I believe your conclusions are incorrect.
1) I will speak only from experience of running caldari and gallanete plexes / missions. Can multiple people validate that you indeed cannot speed tank mini plexes? I find this hard to believe that they are the only plex systems that cannot be speed tanked.
2) All minors you should be killing rats, the only reason for speed tanking anything is farming lp. Because if you are out for a fight those rats need to be gone, if your speed tanking your are running when something enters.
3) The losing side is more favorable and here is why:
Even though your LP rewards are higher your LP is much more available then a completely dominating side like the Minnis. The fact that you have the ability to go into almost all your systems anywhere on the map and run minors makes LP very available. You still have missions and player kills. This must be excluded from the equation since they are equal (availability) with the winning side.
Even though the Minni rewards are dirt cheap (lets assume all LP comes from missioning since there are no available plexes) the price of the minni rewards will plummet in isk value. Clearly the price will never fall below the required item isk value however with more people going to a winning side the price crashes due to over supply. The only reason this is good is if you fly nothing but fw ships / mods and use the lp as a supply line not a isk maker.
On the opposite side the losing sides LP rewards are so inflated that the value of the rewards increase in isk value since the supply diminishes.
This is how FW is balanced for winning / losing. Clearly it does not happen over night however the balancing factor is there.
Brig General
of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General
of The Gallente Federation |
Veesil
Le Moulin Rouge
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
LooknSee wrote:... The 'pilot counts' have always been vastly in Caldari's favor. Since Day 1. I'd point out that there is no reason to assume the number of toons in a militia has any relationship at all to the # of pilots they have active...
I agree that we can't know exactly how many pilots are active in a militia based on the member count for that militia, although the member count does introduce an upper boundary for active pilots. If players stop playing but don't quit the militia (we'll call this disengagement) at similar rates for both the Minmatar and Amarr militias then we could reasonably expect to find more Minmatar pilots in space, relative to Amarrian pilots. If the disengagement rate is sufficiently higher for Minmatar than for Amarr then we should expect relatively greater numbers of Amarrian pilots, while the reverse is true if Amarrian pilots disengage at a higher rate than Minmatar pilots. Given the disparity in incentives for the two factions, I would guess that there's more disengagement on the Amarrian side currently but then again, who doesn't love it when the underdog comes out on top?
Additionally, it's not just the number of pilots that determines the outcome of the soveriegnty war, it's number of pilots plexing. A highly active mission-running militia member contributes nothing to soveriegnty, and vigorous activity by the vast number of Caldari pilots means nothing for sov if they're not spending their time plexing. Ultimately, the Amarr must plex to win the sov war and they have a harder time doing so due to npc imbalance (even if we assume that the active pilot counts for the Amarr and Minmatar factions are even). |
Bad Messenger
draketrain
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
147
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
When minmatar takes all systems only losing side is minmatar.
There is no more plexes to grind for lp.
There is no more amarr staging in lowsec.
There is no point to farm missions because lp store items prices are dumped down and no one makes profits.
have fun with all systems |
LooknSee
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Veesil wrote:I agree that we can't know exactly how many pilots are active in a militia based on the member count for that militia, although the member count does introduce an upper boundary for active pilots.
Whatever limit it does introduce is meaningless since it has no material basis. The proportion of alts/spies/mission farmers/inactive accounts makes the figure useless. If you actually participate in FW, you should know that it's actually a fairly small community; there may be at most a few hundred active pvp'ers on any side. The notion that any militia has 5,000+ potential actives is absurd to anyone who actually partakes in FW. |
Vultirnus
Atlantic Evolution
17
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
LooknSee wrote:Veesil wrote:I agree that we can't know exactly how many pilots are active in a militia based on the member count for that militia, although the member count does introduce an upper boundary for active pilots. Whatever limit it does introduce is meaningless since it has no material basis. The proportion of alts/spies/mission farmers/inactive accounts makes the figure useless. If you actually participate in FW, you should know that it's actually a fairly small community; there may be at most a few hundred active pvp'ers on any side. The notion that any militia has 5,000+ potential actives is absurd to anyone who actually partakes in FW.
I don't think anyone here believes the number is actual. But it is some metric of the activity going on in a militia so some degree. Even if that degree isn't know, the number is still somewhat valuable.
"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - The Scriptures, Prophet Kuria, Paladin's Creed |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
251
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
I completely agree with the original poster. When Minmatar get done with Amarr systems, they can come help us out on the Gallente front. There are plenty of Caldari plexes for which to farm LP. And as an added benefit you guys will get to cash in on even more SFIs and Minmatar faction BSs which I hear are a little bit better than the Gallente faction ships. |
LooknSee
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vultirnus wrote:I don't think anyone here believes the number is actual. But it is some metric of the activity going on in a militia so some degree. Even if that degree isn't know, the number is still somewhat valuable.
And this is my point. It has no value whatsoever as a measure of activity. None. Zero. Nada. To think otherwise is simple delusion (or ignorance, take your pick).
|
Mabata Kire
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
LooknSee wrote:Vultirnus wrote:I don't think anyone here believes the number is actual. But it is some metric of the activity going on in a militia so some degree. Even if that degree isn't know, the number is still somewhat valuable. And this is my point. It has no value whatsoever as a measure of activity. None. Zero. Nada. To think otherwise is simple delusion (or ignorance, take your pick).
It does have value. No one is saying you can take the number and accurately predict precisely how many pilots fly in each faction. What is being said is that you can take that number as a reasonably accurate assumption that there are more minmatar pilots than amarr pilots. |
Jones Bones
Imperial Outlaws
73
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:I completely agree with the original poster. When Minmatar get done with Amarr systems, they can come help us out on the Gallente front. There are plenty of Caldari plexes for which to farm LP. And as an added benefit you guys will get to cash in on even more SFIs and Minmatar faction BSs which I hear are a little bit better than the Gallente faction ships.
You will fear the Federation Navy Space Potato, or it will consume your soul!
|
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
169
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 19:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mabata Kire wrote:It does have value. No one is saying you can take the number and accurately predict precisely how many pilots fly in each faction. What is being said is that you can take that number as a reasonably accurate assumption that there are more minmatar pilots than amarr pilots.
And yet in the past, for 5 months out of the year Amarr has had more bodies in space than the Shakorites even with those numbers being skewed in their favour (we averaged 5 months each with 2 months equilibrium) .. so those numbers really do say nothing of value.
|
LooknSee
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 19:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
Mabata Kire wrote:It does have value. No one is saying you can take the number and accurately predict precisely how many pilots fly in each faction. What is being said is that you can take that number as a reasonably accurate assumption that there are more minmatar pilots than amarr pilots.
lol. You've said it yourself but don't appear to realize it. "Value" doesn't mean what you seem to think it means. If you can't figure it out, that's on you. The number is meaningless. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot. |
Katja Faith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
130
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 20:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
So, where's the major WIN from Goonies joining the Amarr?? Weren't they supposed to invade Minnie space, take everything, and send everyone running for High?
Something's not right here... Hmmm.... |
Oshun Stranje
Fweddit
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 01:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Goonies are joining us now? Not sure how I feel about the competition..... |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Dead On Arrival Alliance
361
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 01:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
So, what the OP is saying is that in time the Minnie faction will become bloated, fat carebears grinding LP pointlessly, and it will be easy to hunt them down if you join Amarr.
The wheel will turn.
The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man.
Sun Tzu
localectomy.blogspot.com.au
|
Alli Othman
Fweddit
26
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 03:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:All very valid observations were it but for one little thing: It is all based on things starting on relatively equal footing.
Alas, the Shakorites abused CCPs inability to see things through and managed to acquire their ~85% dominance while systems needed sod all time spent to flip.
Had the recent changes been implemented following a reset (or last winter), NPCs been balanced and had changes made sense (ex. missions only going to hostile space), then by the time the wheel turned and Amarr once again had numbers available the Shakorites would have had at most ~5 systems not originally theirs .. said five would have been reclaimed in a jiffy and a roughly equal number taken from their "pool" .. at which point the wheel would have turned again ..
That has been the ebb and flow of the Amarr/Shakorite front since time immemorial .. a proper tug-of-war .. destroyed by CCP's appalling ignorance/stupidity/ineptitude/inebriation. What might have been :awesome: has become a big "Thumbs Up" to buggy/lazy coding/design and the people who choose to abuse it.
Not bitter, just pissed.
This whining is why fweddit doesn't really care about the other amarr. Spend less time crying and forum warrioring, and spend more time going out and having fun. |
Nex apparatu5
Fweddit
290
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 03:25:00 -
[27] - Quote
Alli Othman wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:All very valid observations were it but for one little thing: It is all based on things starting on relatively equal footing.
Alas, the Shakorites abused CCPs inability to see things through and managed to acquire their ~85% dominance while systems needed sod all time spent to flip.
Had the recent changes been implemented following a reset (or last winter), NPCs been balanced and had changes made sense (ex. missions only going to hostile space), then by the time the wheel turned and Amarr once again had numbers available the Shakorites would have had at most ~5 systems not originally theirs .. said five would have been reclaimed in a jiffy and a roughly equal number taken from their "pool" .. at which point the wheel would have turned again ..
That has been the ebb and flow of the Amarr/Shakorite front since time immemorial .. a proper tug-of-war .. destroyed by CCP's appalling ignorance/stupidity/ineptitude/inebriation. What might have been :awesome: has become a big "Thumbs Up" to buggy/lazy coding/design and the people who choose to abuse it.
Not bitter, just pissed. This whining is why fweddit doesn't really care about the other amarr. Spend less time crying and forum warrioring, and spend more time going out and having fun.
We prefer to think of ourselves not as outnumbered, but as in a target-rich environment.
After all, the more enemies there are, the more people there are to shoot. |
Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
Amarr 7th Fleet
186
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 03:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
OP and others need to remember the following when passing their opinions and analysis
1) Alot of the Amarr militia are highly motivated at the moment and working together in a way I have not seen in a very long time
2) Some people will join us due to the higher ratio of targets rather than to farm LP
3) The Amarr FW LP store cannot balance enough to rectify some of our issues since any items available from non-FW LP is now CHEAPER than pre-patch, so they will but a ceiling on the prices. So selling a navy apoc will never be a good use of our LP until we get out of the 4X multiplier zone, REGARDLESS of what the market does.
4) When Fweddit start to get their noobs trained up better, into fleets and comms with the rest of the militia and with more SP and better fittings, we will see some number changes
5) Late Nite TZ can only do so much these days to take/regain sov, giving us a chance outside of that TZ to inflict damage...
Will the new FW be any good??? |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
169
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 04:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
Alli Othman wrote:This whining is why fweddit doesn't really care about the other amarr. Spend less time crying and forum warrioring, and spend more time going out and having fun.
I spent 2+ years doing the uphill boogie against broken balance and bugs too numerous to count .. had honestly expected a balance pass before the carrots/sticks were thrown in.
If CCP doesn't get their act together and do some actual work on FW then you'll be sitting right here next to me on the whine train in a few months time .. I'll hire a hobo to keep the seat warm for you as I no longer believe CCP will ever get around to it .. 
But will it still be fun/challenging when numbers get a zero on the end? The beauty of the "old wheel" was that numbers never grew to blob-size (in the plexing world) as it turned. Fighting in <15-20 man gangs offers a lot more on a personal level than the FC bouts which comes down which puppet master selects the right target at the right time.
Either way, from what I understand, fights have re-adopted frigs/dessies and cruisers as the main hulls which is a good thing as those will give newcomers a much sturdier 'education' in the world of pew .. and probably more fun in the process. |
Shadow Adanza
Colonial Marines EVE Division
Villore Accords
7
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 08:26:00 -
[30] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
After all, the more enemies there are, the more people there are to shoot.
Not much to shoot if they're LP farmers like a good number of the Caldari plexers who warp out at even a sniff of trouble. (Although I'm sure all sides have them. It just seems to happen a lot now with the Caldari I encounter and when they can speed tank a major in a condor, I guess you can't really blame them for taking advantage.) I even had a wt Tengu warp out of a major when my Thrasher arrived because it "was pve fit". At least he was killing the rats...
Win or lose, it's just a game. Respect your enemies and your teammates. |
Grimfang Wyrmspawn
Amarrian Retribution
Amarr 7th Fleet
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 08:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
Seems to be a lot of Minnie Dramiel speed wankers..... sorry, tankers about. I've seen them flee when an Executioner enters their plex.... |
Bengal Bob
Angry Mustellid
Iron Oxide.
42
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 09:08:00 -
[32] - Quote
Alli Othman wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:All very valid observations were it but for one little thing: It is all based on things starting on relatively equal footing.
Alas, the Shakorites abused CCPs inability to see things through and managed to acquire their ~85% dominance while systems needed sod all time spent to flip.
Had the recent changes been implemented following a reset (or last winter), NPCs been balanced and had changes made sense (ex. missions only going to hostile space), then by the time the wheel turned and Amarr once again had numbers available the Shakorites would have had at most ~5 systems not originally theirs .. said five would have been reclaimed in a jiffy and a roughly equal number taken from their "pool" .. at which point the wheel would have turned again ..
That has been the ebb and flow of the Amarr/Shakorite front since time immemorial .. a proper tug-of-war .. destroyed by CCP's appalling ignorance/stupidity/ineptitude/inebriation. What might have been :awesome: has become a big "Thumbs Up" to buggy/lazy coding/design and the people who choose to abuse it.
Not bitter, just pissed. This whining is why fweddit doesn't really care about the other amarr. Spend less time crying and forum warrioring, and spend more time going out and having fun.
He isn't in FW anymore. Things got tough, and PIE left. RP is easier than PVP |
Bengal Bob
Angry Mustellid
Iron Oxide.
42
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 09:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
From what I am seeing, the minmatar have around 20 active pilots on a regular basis (nightly/daily) We then have maybe another 20 over excited new guys joining because Minnie FW is the flavour of the month. We then have god knows how many missioners whoring away like mad.
On busy, preplanned ops that people consider important we can maybe scrape 50-60 effective people together.
These numbers are roughly similar to the Amarr. Probably the biggest 2 differences are:
FC's - We have some outstanding and hardworking guys and girls running fleets.
For whatever reason, the minmatar have always liked smaller ships and gangs and so consequently are spread out and active all over the place instead of waiting in a single system for a fleet to start.
The Amarr are in the best possible place at the moment, plentiful LP through plexing. Tons of targets, spread out all over the place, also giving LP. And loads of over confident Minmatar running into fights expecting to win, just because they are Minmatar.
Can't understand Amarr whining, you guys should be SO excited right now.
Only thing that is bad for you guys is the LP store, which everyone agrees overly penalises the losing side. But you have Minmatar alts yes? |
Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
Amarr 7th Fleet
186
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 15:07:00 -
[34] - Quote
Bengal Bob wrote:From what I am seeing, the minmatar have around 20 active pilots on a regular basis (nightly/daily) We then have maybe another 20 over excited new guys joining because Minnie FW is the flavour of the month. We then have god knows how many missioners whoring away like mad. On busy, preplanned ops that people consider important we can maybe scrape 50-60 effective people together. These numbers are roughly similar to the Amarr. Probably the biggest 2 differences are: FC's - We have some outstanding and hardworking guys and girls running fleets. For whatever reason, the minmatar have always liked smaller ships and gangs and so consequently are spread out and active all over the place instead of waiting in a single system for a fleet to start. The Amarr are in the best possible place at the moment, plentiful LP through plexing. Tons of targets, spread out all over the place, also giving LP. And loads of over confident Minmatar running into fights expecting to win, just because they are Minmatar. Can't understand Amarr whining, you guys should be SO excited right now. Only thing that is bad for you guys is the LP store, which everyone agrees overly penalises the losing side. But you have Minmatar alts yes?
Wasn't there for it, but was told you had 90 there to defned the POS in Oyo that came out of reinforced a few days back... Bit more than 50-60!!!
Will the new FW be any good??? |
Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous
Late Night Alliance
297
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 16:57:00 -
[35] - Quote
Har Harrison wrote:Bengal Bob wrote:From what I am seeing, the minmatar have around 20 active pilots on a regular basis (nightly/daily) We then have maybe another 20 over excited new guys joining because Minnie FW is the flavour of the month. We then have god knows how many missioners whoring away like mad. On busy, preplanned ops that people consider important we can maybe scrape 50-60 effective people together. These numbers are roughly similar to the Amarr. Probably the biggest 2 differences are: FC's - We have some outstanding and hardworking guys and girls running fleets. For whatever reason, the minmatar have always liked smaller ships and gangs and so consequently are spread out and active all over the place instead of waiting in a single system for a fleet to start. The Amarr are in the best possible place at the moment, plentiful LP through plexing. Tons of targets, spread out all over the place, also giving LP. And loads of over confident Minmatar running into fights expecting to win, just because they are Minmatar. Can't understand Amarr whining, you guys should be SO excited right now. Only thing that is bad for you guys is the LP store, which everyone agrees overly penalises the losing side. But you have Minmatar alts yes? Wasn't there for it, but was told you had 90 there to defned the POS in Oyo that came out of reinforced a few days back... Bit more than 50-60!!!
Well, don't give us Timers that we can set our alarm clocks to. :P Besides, we saw that you guys had SOTF and AAA on stand-by. If Raiden. hadn't fought you guys in Kamela, it would have easily been an even fight in terms of #s, and you'd have probably killed the POS since AAA had brought Thundercats and would have slowly eaten our BS alive.
Sa souvraya niende misain ye. |
Jones Bones
Imperial Outlaws
73
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 17:21:00 -
[36] - Quote
Bengal Bob wrote:
FC's - We have some outstanding and hardworking guys and girls running fleets.
lolwut
|
Alonzo Odantis
Talusian Trade Federation
18
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 19:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
LooknSee wrote:Alonzo Odantis wrote:While a cute quote, it's 100% false. While a cute reply, it's 100% false. See what I did there???
Yes, you made a false statement. Everyone can see that.
If someone said "Michael Jordan, the famous basketball player, was only 4'3"" would you need a long winded explanation of why that's false?
I don't need to explain such obvious falsities to those with any measure of intellect. Those without that level of intellect won't understand the explanation anyway, so it would be a fruitless effort on my part. |
Zeerover
Wolfsbrigade
Lost Obsession
98
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 19:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
The problem isn't the fighting, and there really isn't a problem for us who own numerous alt accounts... but for the general Amarr FW player there is a massive problem, they're getting out-funded by the opposing side to a ridiculous degree, since they're not getting anything of value from all that LP.
Put it a different way, with the current minmatar fw lp store prices we have people, who on alts, are earning ~2.5b a day running missions. Why all of you aren't doing until the market crashes I don't know...
[img]http://i.imgur.com/Qrwa2.png[/img] |
Ashriban Kador
Amarrian Retribution
Amarr 7th Fleet
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 00:00:00 -
[39] - Quote
Never underestimate the bravery of a man with his back against the wall.
Lamaa is only the first...
Amarr Victor!
Your goals may align with some ... and with others, collide with the force of suns. |
space chikun
Fweddit
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 00:10:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ashriban Kador wrote:Never underestimate the bravery of a man with his back against the wall.
Lamaa is only the first...
Amarr Victor!
For the chikunz! |
GenesisMike
Wolfsbrigade
Lost Obsession
25
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 00:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
I am enjoying the amount of fights available atm. No complaints here.
That and Zeerover is my hero so...
Mike |
Stalking Mantis
Amarrian Retribution
Amarr 7th Fleet
165
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 00:14:00 -
[42] - Quote
GÖÑ Fweddit
Thanks everyone that showed up to the fight look forward to seeing you in the next fleet.
For Les Grossman |
Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q
Iron Oxide.
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 07:25:00 -
[43] - Quote
GenesisMike wrote:I am enjoying the amount of fights available atm. No complaints here.
Mike
This really.
There's so many fights to be had these days, no more station camping (LOLTMFED still so bitter) and best of all, there's actually fights in all sizes. I'm having solo fights, small skirmishes, medium sized gangs roaming plexes in quieter systems and of course proper fights like last night in Lamaa with well over 100 people in system.
Congrats on taking back Lamaa there. It was so close, if we would've hit that last med plex 1 minute earlier we could've kept the system contested.
There's a load of new people on the amarr side who seem to be active and highly motivated so i sense hard times for us Minnies coming up. Which is neat because there's gonna be even more stuff to shoot.
Now let's hope Fweddit learn to fit properly, stop naming their ships "tackle1", "longrange15" or "closerange brawler7" and work on their local spam qualitites ("******* NERDS!", seriously? What's that even supposed to mean?).
Get used to the new FW, into a ship and come fight. 
pew pew |
Alli Othman
Fweddit
26
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 11:08:00 -
[44] - Quote
Zen Guerrilla wrote:Now let's hope Fweddit learn to fit properly, stop naming their ships "tackle1", "longrange15" or "closerange brawler7" and work on their local spam qualitites ("******* NERDS!", seriously? What's that even supposed to mean?). Get used to the new FW, into a ship and come fight.
All of our ships are now named exactly like this. And still fit the same.
Suck on that, nerds. |
Veesil
Le Moulin Rouge
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 14:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
I love the positive energy that's showing up in this thread! Even with an NPC imbalance and a huge disparity in the rewards, there are clearly still good fights to be had. And, to be fair, even the meager Amarr rewards are better than the nothing a non-aligned corp would get for the same fights. That there's some evidence of a balance in activity level between the Amarr and the Minmatar certainly helps.
I still think it's an uphill battle for the Amarr but, as long as that doesn't bother Amarrian militia members, I'm sure we'll see them putting in the effort that's required to win the sovereignty battle just as they did in Lamaa. A good attitude really does count for a lot. Maybe that's the biggest balance issue, and one that's being addressed by the players themselves.
It's still probably worthwhile to post in the FW NPC balance thread...
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107393 |
LooknSee
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 22:10:00 -
[46] - Quote
Veesil wrote:I love the positive energy that's showing up in this thread! Even with an NPC imbalance and a huge disparity in the rewards, there are clearly still good fights to be had. And, to be fair, even the meager Amarr rewards are better than the nothing a non-aligned corp would get for the same fights. That there's some evidence of a balance in activity level between the Amarr and the Minmatar certainly helps.
I still think it's an uphill battle for the Amarr but, as long as that doesn't bother Amarrian militia members, I'm sure we'll see them putting in the effort that's required to win the sovereignty battle just as they did in Lamaa. A good attitude really does count for a lot. Maybe that's the biggest balance issue, and one that's being addressed by the players themselves.
So what you're saying is that this is a glorified support group thread for FW-types with low self-esteem? Interesting.
|
Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous
Late Night Alliance
297
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 22:17:00 -
[47] - Quote
Hello everyone, my name is Vordak.
Hello Vordak.
Sa souvraya niende misain ye. |
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