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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
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CCP WeirdFish
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Posted - 2009.08.24 13:29:00 -
[1]
As im sure you are aware eve has a vast and diverse set of ships each playing an independent role in the game. Following on from CCP Oneiromancer's event to test the balance of office modules we will be holding an event on Singularity to give you a chance to try out different faction ships and give us feedback on there balance.
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Test schedule:
Saturday [August 29] @ 18:00 GMT Fleet fight and POS test
Sunday [August 30] @ 18:00 GMT MYSTERY EVENT
_________________________________
How to connect to Singularity for this test:
- Make a copy of the current Tranquility (TQ) client
- Visit the Sisi patch page.
- Patch the copied client to the Singularity build
- Login to the singularity test server
- Join the in-game channel "faction test"
- Disable brackets | Read here if you're not sure how
- Listen for instructions and ask questions in-channel
What exactly is being tested?
- The first test will be a simple fleet fight
- Second we will move the engagement to a Starbase-siege (POS)
- You should pay attention to your FPS (use ctrl+f to view in-game)
- Anyone able to use multiple accounts is strongly encouraged to bring your alts!
- CCP staff and ISD will be on hand prior to the test to help move players to the starting location
- Don't forget to fill out the feedback thread after the test (links will be clearly posted at the end of the test!)
What should I bring?
- You will be supplied with faction ships on the day
- Fit drones!
- Give weapon linking a try
- Spider tanks 4tw
See you all there 
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fab24
Gallente
Order of Anarchy
The Laughing Men
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Posted - 2009.08.24 13:30:00 -
[2]
first, get me unbanned, I got it for useless fail reason, so I can test ?
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Please stop asking such stupid stuff as : factions ships, faction/officer/deadspace items, skills, armageddon day, and other things like this, ty |
Stratigic
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Posted - 2009.08.24 13:54:00 -
[3]
im in :D
fabs banned? whai?
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Maximus FuBaR
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Posted - 2009.08.24 13:56:00 -
[4]
Yes im sure that will get you unbanned....
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MJ Maverick
IronPig
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2009.08.24 14:02:00 -
[5]
Edited by: MJ Maverick on 24/08/2009 14:02:14
Faction as in Macherials etc?
If we are missing one of the 2 races skills will we have to train it from frigate or will you be able to... Bump us?
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CCP arse kissing drones are not welcome in my threads. CCP are not perfect. |
5ilent 5hift
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.08.24 14:05:00 -
[6]
I'm in
And if we could get a.... boost to the races ship's skills, that would be nice
[url=http://www.amarr-empire.net/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=50291]
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Cpt Omage5
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Posted - 2009.08.24 14:06:00 -
[7]
Sounds exciting..but that is a good question about the skills for the ships cuz i never trained into Gallente and Minmatar Bs.
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CCP WeirdFish
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Posted - 2009.08.24 14:10:00 -
[8]
There will be no skill "bumping" i'm afraid it would take me far to much time. Get training soon Battleship level 1 will not take very long.
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MJ Maverick
IronPig
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2009.08.24 14:20:00 -
[9]
Better get your queues set now guys. Remap if you want to make the 30th.
Caldari Frig/Cruiser/BS1 takes 6 days 8 hours with 30 Perception.
Hopefully it will be late in the day on the 30th.
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CCP arse kissing drones are not welcome in my threads. CCP are not perfect. |
LoveKebab
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.08.24 14:28:00 -
[10]
im all in ! :)
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
5ilent 5hift
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.08.24 14:36:00 -
[11]
right, best get training for matari bs's then.... ty for the heads up 
[url=http://www.amarr-empire.net/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=50291]
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Lijhal
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2009.08.24 15:49:00 -
[12]
are we talking here about "empire" faction ships aka CNR etc or do we test pirate faction ships as well ?
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fab24
Gallente
Order of Anarchy
The Laughing Men
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Posted - 2009.08.24 15:54:00 -
[13]
 Originally by: Lijhal
are we talking here about "empire" faction ships aka CNR etc or do we test pirate faction ships as well ?
I talked with CCP, and every unique ship such as storm, corvus... will not be avaible, all the other you can buy will make the test.
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CCP WeirdFish
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Posted - 2009.08.24 16:08:00 -
[14]
All pirate and empire faction ships that you are able to obtain on tq, so no unique (Storm, Corvus, Imp Apoc ect) but otherwise everything.
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Aranis Nax
Minmatar
Seraphim Blades
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Posted - 2009.08.24 16:14:00 -
[15]
faction ship test or fleet/lag test? 
Anyway, mind if I give some feedback from TQ experience?
Cynabal: needs a grid upgrade, badly. Although being based on the Rupture, it never did receive the same grid boost that one got.
Faction frigs in general need an overall. Many of them sport 50/50 turret/launcher ratio. Doesn't quite make sense for Gallente Comet, Serpentis Daredevil... Would be interesting if empire faction frigs would get the same treatment their cruisers did.
One frig in particular is laughable, Dramiel. This one has 25% projectile damage, 37.5% projectile tracking and another 25% projectile damage bonus, that's awesome. Untill you see the weapon layout, 2 turret slots, 3 launcher slots. It does a decent 109 dps with 200mm and rockets, 66 of that comes from the guns, but when you realize it could do more with 3 turrets, 1 launcher(instead of having 5 highs, it could pass with 4 and have another mid or low), it seems rather silly to have that layout with those bonuses. It can use an extra mid or low. I also got the impression it's another ship that was forgotten when the base ship received a boost, the rifter received an extra lowslot long ago iirc, doesn't seem to be reflected on the dramiel.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.24 19:51:00 -
[16]
2 of the Guristas faction ships, Gila and Rattlesnake haven't received any of the change to the inertia modifier of Caldari ships made some patch ago.
Not giving them a value as good as the T1 version can be reasonable, leaving them with the old value of the Scorpion and Moa seem to point to forgetfulness, not design.
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Atreus Tac
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.08.25 14:28:00 -
[17]
All but the sansha faction ships and the main 4 races cruisers and BSs are all crap.
The frigs are pointless as t2 out classes them by a country mile. And the other races just plain suck.
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[16:54:07] Kopier Tante > if you got an mwd then your completly ****ed
[16:54:34] Kopier Tante > you got no defence, no speed, nothing. |
Meiyang Lee
Gallente
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2009.08.25 15:34:00 -
[18]
Ashimmu:
Needs a CPU boost, badly. You can't fit it T2, it has to be mostly faction or best named or you'll be out of CPU halfway.
Grid needs a boost too, if you decide to fit T2 weapons and NOS/Neuts you will need reactor controls and grid-rigs (not to mention CPU mods) to get it to work, and that's without using a MWD.
DPS is abysmal (150-200, you'll need the lows for HP, Grid or CPU, so Heatsinks are out), but compensated by it's sting with NOS/Neuts, the ship is however very fragile considering how short the range on these modules is. The extended range webs are great, but your lasers are the only thing reaching that far, the NOS/Neuts certainly won't.
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el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.08.25 23:05:00 -
[19]
Edited by: el caido on 25/08/2009 23:09:48
I have been eagerly awaiting a buff (hint, hint) to faction boats for years, and I'll jump at any chance to fly one in combat. I'll be there!
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Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
V O O D O O
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Posted - 2009.08.26 09:30:00 -
[20]
so tempest will get boost too ?:P
60D GTC - shattared link |
ollobrains
5th Front enterprises
CryoGenesis Mining Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.08.26 10:26:00 -
[21]
in other words ccp wants to nerf faction ships - perhaps this is leading up to t3 battleships that will take the faction ship dps and other bonuses ?
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.08.26 16:27:00 -
[22]
OMG OMG OMG! DAMMMMMMM need to cancel all my apointments saturday!
Will ccp make us suffer and hide all details from us until the very last moment?
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Vestus Regula
doMAL S.A.
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Posted - 2009.08.26 16:50:00 -
[23]
There goes my quality time with the family. You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs, I guess...
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miss Hail
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Posted - 2009.08.26 16:57:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Atreus Tac
All but the sansha faction ships and the main 4 races cruisers and BSs are all crap.
The frigs are pointless as t2 out classes them by a country mile. And the other races just plain suck.
not really, faction cruiser stabber/omen/caracal/vexor aren't bad.
same for the BS apoc raven mega are pretty good, the tempest its still a tempest.
empire faction frig are crap, get rid of split weapons.
but pirate faction ships except sansha ones seriously need a boost
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.08.26 17:35:00 -
[25]
I am sure you will create a new feedback thread after this event, though you could just move this thread here and sticky it, as it already has seven pages of feedback about faction ships. 
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Ideas for: Mining
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Ulasim
Child Head Injury and Laceration Doctors
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Posted - 2009.08.27 03:09:00 -
[26]
So wait your gonna balance 1 bilion +isk ships around large fleet fights and pos sieging?
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Ramson
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.08.27 07:39:00 -
[27]
Finaly the awaited faction ship buffs ? yay !
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CCP WeirdFish
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Posted - 2009.08.27 08:48:00 -
[28]
Originally by: ollobrains
in other words ccp wants to nerf faction ships - perhaps this is leading up to t3 battleships that will take the faction ship dps and other bonuses ?
Originally by: Ulasim
So wait your gonna balance 1 bilion +isk ships around large fleet fights and pos sieging?
In response to all your tinfoilery the intention is to get a player perspective on how the ships are balanced, be that they need a nerf or a boost depends entirely on the feedback we receive.
I would also stress that this is an exercise to gather information and enable you all to voice your opinions on the matter, and that no definitive action is planed, but mainly we just thought you would all enjoy it
So put the tinfoil hats away and il see you on Saturday 
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something somethingdark
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Posted - 2009.08.27 11:22:00 -
[29]
so you want feedback on faction ships eh
well i can give that to you without a big event
althou ill enjoy the big event
Bloodraiders :
Need a neut/nos range bonus aswell to benefit from the web bonus (the cruor and the ashimu anyways)
their damage output is appaling
and that laser bonus is silly because the ship needs cap so badly and you dont get any aditional bonus to lasers anyways so you fit projectiles
id suggest bloodraiders get :
1) range bonus for nos neut
2) bonus for projectile weps
Angels :
Cant say much about the dramiel but the cynabals damage is .. meh... prety please give it another projectile slot
machariel ... hmm its ok i guess ... up the speed to 200 thou :D
Guristas :
well they just plain get laughed at by .. well everything
and they have the agility of a medium sized solar system
Serpentis
would love the daredevil without a split weapon system .. or if that system would permit it to do damage
i dont know whats so special about the vigilant
at the very least it needs more powergrid
vindicator needs more cpu or maybe thats just my fittings
Sanshas
got balanced and are fine
but in general id like to see faction ships and especialy pirate faction ships to be something special
starting with the model ...
it shouldnt just be a paintjob ....
althou we do want the EoM paintjobs
personaly id like to see faction ships to be on par with t2 ships but doing something diffrent role wise (ok thats not always possible but still)
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Ramson
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.08.27 16:40:00 -
[30]
Preliminary feedback would be:
1.Bloodraiders - all ships need a buff,slot layout,maibe bonuses and such
2.Guristas - worm and gila need looking into
3.Serpentis - afew tweaks here and there,nothing major
4.Sansha - all ships fine
5.Angel Cartel - dramiel and cynabal need looking into,and some buffs,also it would be nice if we had one of the old NPC angel cruisers for the cynabal model,well that is personal pref.
Also:
- make faction frigates more accesible,reduce their LP costs or something to bring them at the price of an AF,aswell as buff them abit,10mil for a faction frigate would actualy motivate afew players to try them out in pvp if they are buffed properly
- some faction cruisers also need their price tweaked abit (talking about pirate),or some minor buffs for the ones that need them
My oppinion tho.
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Korell Nova
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Posted - 2009.08.27 17:40:00 -
[31]
easy way to start the changes make all faction ships like the nightmare and give them 4 weapon slots and a maurader damage bonus.
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Ulasim
Child Head Injury and Laceration Doctors
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Posted - 2009.08.27 17:48:00 -
[32]
Originally by: CCP WeirdFish
There will be no skill "bumping" i'm afraid it would take me far to much time. Get training soon Battleship level 1 will not take very long.
Right because having battleship I will give you an excellent idea of how a ship preforms.
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fab24
Gallente
Order of Anarchy
The Laughing Men
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Posted - 2009.08.27 18:32:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Korell Nova
easy way to start the changes make all faction ships like the nightmare and give them 4 weapon slots and a maurader damage bonus.
This is not a really good idea... many ships have defined roles and it will make some ships like nightmare/succubus/phantasm to become useless simply because they have no other 'special' bonus other than the 100% dmg thing, they will be replaced by bhaalgorn for exemple, 4 turrets (and if they make slot change) 3 neuts would kill everything... It will just go on the overpoweredcrapomfgthisshipkilleverything...
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CCP WeirdFish
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Posted - 2009.08.27 20:24:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Ulasim
Originally by: CCP WeirdFish
There will be no skill "bumping" i'm afraid it would take me far to much time. Get training soon Battleship level 1 will not take very long.
Right because having battleship I will give you an excellent idea of how a ship preforms.
Im sorry if you will be unable to utilize your desired ship, but im am just to busy to go and put all your skills up.
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Ulasim
Child Head Injury and Laceration Doctors
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Posted - 2009.08.27 22:09:00 -
[35]
Originally by: CCP WeirdFish
Originally by: Ulasim
Originally by: CCP WeirdFish
There will be no skill "bumping" i'm afraid it would take me far to much time. Get training soon Battleship level 1 will not take very long.
Right because having battleship I will give you an excellent idea of how a ship preforms.
Im sorry if you will be unable to utilize your desired ship, but im am just to busy to go and put all your skills up.
I don't care about that, the only faction BS I couldn't use T2 fitted would be a fleet pest or macherial, I'm just worried that your going to be trying to balance ships based off the feed back you get from pilot who should not be flying them.
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.08.27 22:43:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Sera Ryskin on 27/08/2009 22:43:36
What exactly is the point of doing this? Faction ships are almost never used in fleet fights, they're best for 1v1s and small gang fights, where their advantages over cheaper ships actually make a difference. In a fleet fight, where all that matters is is bringing more ships for the battle of attrition, they're just a waste of ISK.
And a POS fight? Really? Do you honestly think you are going to get useful balance feedback by testing faction ships in a scenario in which they are NEVER used in the real game? This makes about as much sense as trying to re-balance mining barges by testing their performance in level 5 missions.
Now, if your real goal here is to conduct another lag test with faction ships as the bait to get people to show up, then sure, it's a great idea, but if it's balance that you want, it's a terrible plan.
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Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Ronen Osden
Caldari
Ronen's NEW And Improved Mining Services
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Posted - 2009.08.28 09:44:00 -
[37]
I just want to know If we get to keep the ship when you give it to us...or if it goes poof when the testing is done...?
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MJ Maverick
IronPig
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2009.08.28 11:39:00 -
[38]
For example if your name is Zebady ZZacracy and you somehow survive.
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CCP arse kissing drones are not welcome in my threads. CCP are not perfect. |
fuxinos
Caldari
Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2009.08.28 12:13:00 -
[39]
Edited by: fuxinos on 28/08/2009 12:16:05
Will this test provide you with anything more accurate then asking in a balancing thread?
I mean, you opened a balancing thread months ago and you still didnt change/balance anything that has been brought up...
I realy start wondering when CCP starts taking balancing serious.
Ç: And the fact that we have more broken T1 and T2 ships then faction ships (not many have the money for them anyway) wont make me think any better about your nearly non existent balancing efforts.
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Ariane VoxDei
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Posted - 2009.08.28 14:23:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Ulasim
I'm just worried that your going to be trying to balance ships based off the feed back you get from pilot who should not be flying them.
This. I don't mind people trying ships they would not field on Tranq, due to cost or risk, but that they will provide feedback on ships they have not properly trained for (and/or can fit), it a hair raising horror.
It would be like me trying to be an expert on for example the Vargur - I don't have minmatar BS 5 to fly it, so anyone who knows that would not trust anything I say about it (if it can not be read directly from it's attributes).
The analogy would be the horror that i saw back when i still played WOW.
Premade characters on the PTR just meant boatloads of incompetent feedback, due to people trying out classes at max level that they had no real experience playing with.
And that drowned out those who did in fact test the classes of their mains and thus had the ballast to know what they were talking about.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.08.28 14:54:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 28/08/2009 14:57:04
I've been playing with my Ashimmu.
Ship needs to have the following, changes in yellow, boosts in green, nerfs in red, everything else the same is in white:
Special Ability: 100% bonus to range of modules requiring Energy Emission Systems
Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer drain amount per level
Minmatar Cruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Stasis Webifier strength per level.
CPU base: 380 +80
Grid base: 950 +100
Calibration: 350
Lows: 6
Med: 4 +1
High: 7
Turret slots: 5 +1
Missile slots: 0 -1
Attributes:
Leave SH/AR/ST same
Dronebay: 20m3 +20
Bandwidth: 20m3 +20
Capacitor: 1800 base +75
Recharge Time: 490 sec - 47.5 sec
LADAR Sensor Strength: 16 +3 (the ship has fusion engines so give it minmatar sensors)
Max Velocity: 164 m/s
This would balance the ship out perfectly in my opinion. It utilizes all of the bonuses, and the web range/power would be the toss up. I really like the web RANGE but let's face it -- this ship is the slowest cruiser in the game so it needs to compensate by stopping its target like molasses on a cold day.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.28 17:43:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Ulasim
Originally by: CCP WeirdFish
Originally by: Ulasim
Originally by: CCP WeirdFish
There will be no skill "bumping" i'm afraid it would take me far to much time. Get training soon Battleship level 1 will not take very long.
Right because having battleship I will give you an excellent idea of how a ship preforms.
Im sorry if you will be unable to utilize your desired ship, but im am just to busy to go and put all your skills up.
I don't care about that, the only faction BS I couldn't use T2 fitted would be a fleet pest or macherial, I'm just worried that your going to be trying to balance ships based off the feed back you get from pilot who should not be flying them.
Not to worry. I'll be there and I have max skills for all of the faction BS involved. 
--
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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Mike C
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.08.29 01:53:00 -
[43]
Already got a leviathan, so if I can get capital ships 5 bumped up (got 3 weeks left on it) I'll be happy to donate my time in it. :)
__________________________________________________
Originally by: Mike C
Trolls - We keep Humanity alive... and kicking...
Originally by: Mike C
This proposal is less then intelligent, and I insist you re |
Jarome Keel
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Posted - 2009.08.29 11:13:00 -
[44]
This clearly isnt a faction ship test but more of a server stress test.
Evidence; a FLEET fight, how often does some one who pvps in a faction ship do it in a fleet with only other faction ships? They are much more commonly used for solo or very small gang fights, also watching for FPS, i didnt realise that FPS had such a large impact on how good my faction ship was and finally a POS shoot which gives CCP alot of information as it takes a long time to drop a pos. I dont really have a problem with stress tests but would rather you actually say it was a stress test rather then a faction ship balancing event. It wouldnt surprise me if CCP allready knows what they are going to do about faction ships and thought they might as well get a server stress test out of it as a bonus!
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Lahila Astravmar
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Posted - 2009.08.29 11:39:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Lahila Astravmar on 29/08/2009 11:39:36
uhm... how much can help a 6months old player with few PvP experience? (any about fleet fight)
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CCP WeirdFish
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Posted - 2009.08.29 13:49:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Jarome Keel
This clearly isnt a faction ship test but more of a server stress test.
Evidence; a FLEET fight, how often does some one who pvps in a faction ship do it in a fleet with only other faction ships? They are much more commonly used for solo or very small gang fights, also watching for FPS, i didnt realise that FPS had such a large impact on how good my faction ship was and finally a POS shoot which gives CCP alot of information as it takes a long time to drop a pos. I dont really have a problem with stress tests but would rather you actually say it was a stress test rather then a faction ship balancing event. It wouldnt surprise me if CCP allready knows what they are going to do about faction ships and thought they might as well get a server stress test out of it as a bonus!
The fleet and pos test are purely to get some numbers and data the idea is to give you the ships and then let you play with them and that's where we get our balance data. Yes there will be stress tests runing but the aim of the whole event is to get a feeling of how you all see the ships as comparing with there T1 and T2 counterparts as well as each other.
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chaosjj
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Posted - 2009.08.29 14:02:00 -
[47]
How will the ships be distributed? will we need to request a ship in a channel , or does anyone recieve one of all faction ships?
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Perry
Amarr
The X-Trading Company
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.29 15:38:00 -
[48]
CCP, i am disappointed and happy.
Disappointed because you are running ballancing as a democratic process here, you let the people tell you what they want and you try to do their bidding ( i know you have the last word). So why is that bad? Because its hypocracy. If some player requests boosts to a ship, others tell him to shut up and use the ship as intended. Now these same poeple make suggestions as to how to boost their ships.
I am happy because faction ships actually need a boost, and you finally do it. But ccp, you should have some ideas of your own first. Like with Sansha, you should present your ideas here and then let people comment these ideas. Otherwise you may get more suggestions then you could manage to review.
So CCP, what are your ideas, what should each faction feature, how far do you want to go, where should faction ships stand? T1,5? T2? Whats with the LP? Any concepts flying around? Its your job to do these concepts, ya know?
Thank you in advance.
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CCP WeirdFish
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Posted - 2009.08.29 15:50:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Perry
CCP, i am disappointed and happy.
Disappointed because you are running ballancing as a democratic process here, you let the people tell you what they want and you try to do their bidding ( i know you have the last word). So why is that bad? Because its hypocracy. If some player requests boosts to a ship, others tell him to shut up and use the ship as intended. Now these same poeple make suggestions as to how to boost their ships.
I am happy because faction ships actually need a boost, and you finally do it. But ccp, you should have some ideas of your own first. Like with Sansha, you should present your ideas here and then let people comment these ideas. Otherwise you may get more suggestions then you could manage to review.
So CCP, what are your ideas, what should each faction feature, how far do you want to go, where should faction ships stand? T1,5? T2? Whats with the LP? Any concepts flying around? Its your job to do these concepts, ya know?
Thank you in advance.
As i have already explained this is not a design decision in progress, all we want to do is give you the opportunity to give us some feedback so we get a good idea of what people think of the ships and there balance, any changes or designs that might be made in this area in future will have some idea of how you think it should be. That does not mean that if you all cry over one ship being uber and another being useless that they will be altered in the next patch. Just tell us what you think so we are aware of your opinions.
Now stop finding things to complain about and come have some fun
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ian666
Minmatar
Lamb Federation Navy
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Posted - 2009.08.29 16:34:00 -
[50]
Edited by: ian666 on 29/08/2009 16:35:27
Answers for all questions exists here, on this forum, from years, its really so hard to use search function?
For example, 2yrs old topic (one of many) about rattlesnake (basicaly all guristas ships are messed up because of their two different weapon type bonuses while all other ships have 3 bonuses to same weapons)
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=572580&page=1
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.08.29 19:13:00 -
[51]
Originally by: CCP WeirdFish
The fleet and pos test are purely to get some numbers and data the idea is to give you the ships and then let you play with them and that's where we get our balance data. Yes there will be stress tests runing but the aim of the whole event is to get a feeling of how you all see the ships as comparing with there T1 and T2 counterparts as well as each other.
What balance "data" are you hoping to get? That most people feel that the Machariel is a poor ship for killing POSes? No ****, nobody uses it in that role or expects it to be good in that role. The "data" you are going to get is about as relevant to balance decisions as if you decided to test mining barge balance in a POS fight.
There are two things you should do:
1) Read the MANY balance threads that have already been posted. There have been many good ideas, and vast amounts of constructive feedback, and all you have to do is go read it.
2) Test faction ships in solo and small gang fights. Unlike POS killing and large fleet fights, these are the situations where people actually USE faction ships. And since the balance issues, fundamental tactics, etc, are all completely different from POSes/fleet fights, you will get feedback that you could not get from your current plan.
Or take the third option: admit that all this talk of "balance" is just a way to get lots of people to sign on for your stress test. Seriously, we would have a much higher opinion of your judgment if you just admitted the faction ships are just bait, rather than pretty much the worst possible approach to balancing you could possibly think of.
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Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.29 20:00:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 29/08/2009 19:59:55
I'm sure CCP learned alot about faction ship balance by putting 200 of them in a fleet and repeatedly doomsdaying them
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Bestofworst Worstofbest
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.08.29 20:07:00 -
[53]
Test just finished. CCP WeirdFish Accidently my whole computer, had to hard reboot.
________________________________________________
My Music
Posts slowly rising in quality to the decline of my dignity. |
MJ Maverick
IronPig
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2009.08.29 20:07:00 -
[54]
Good event, except the noobs following the test fleet around picking them off.
Was fun though lol, I didn't even have the DD effect on and I still lagged to hell and back :o
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CCP arse kissing drones are not welcome in my threads. CCP are not perfect. |
Etien Aldragoran
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.29 20:37:00 -
[55]
CCP finally realized this for the Naglfar and now it's time to realize it for the faction ships (and rest of minnie ships as well)
SPLIT BONUSES DO NOT WORK
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Bestofworst Worstofbest
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.08.29 21:19:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran
CCP finally realized this for the Naglfar and now it's time to realize it for the faction ships (and rest of minnie ships as well)
SPLIT BONUSES DO NOT WORK
Wtb more turret slots for navy comet.
________________________________________________
My Music
Posts slowly rising in quality to the decline of my dignity. |
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.08.29 22:13:00 -
[57]
read:
95% of veterans with in depth knowledge dont want to change it the way we do. we've hired the other 5%. now we need lots of newb posts with bs lvl1 until we have enough piled up to point at and say "the community wanted it, too"
amirite?
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putting the gist back into logistics |
something somethingdark
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Posted - 2009.08.30 00:25:00 -
[58]
couldnt make it ... but
whers the feedback ?
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Perry
Amarr
The X-Trading Company
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.30 08:49:00 -
[59]
I will now give elaborate review of needed changes to faction ships based on the testserver event:
Faction ships are not that great against POS because they are too easy to kill by turrets. So all faction ships need their HP boosted by at leat 300%. But that doesnt change the fact that faction ships often are overpriced in the LP shop compared to stock T1 Ships, resulting in way too expensive doomsday defeats for faction ship fleets. So i suggest to lower LP costs by global -90%.
But this doesnt address the individual ships shortcomings in POS and Fleet Fights. For example, Guristas ships are clearly intended to use split weapons. So we should give the Rattlesnake, Worm and Gila some additional launcher slots, so they can fight both short and long range targets at the same time, which is crucial in organized fleets.
We cant forget Sansha ships either! Modern fleets are clearly focused on remote armor repair, so we should reduce sansha ships shields by 50% and give them a remote armor repair bonus instead of the laser damage bonus. This will help them in fleet fights and against POSes!
Where does that leave Blood Raider vessels? Clearly they have no role in big fleets right now. So lets fix that by giving them long range nos! +97,275% Nos range per level should be the perfectly balanced amount to give these ships the needed edge in fleet fights. This will also give projectils their much needed boost, because Tempests can fight on without cap! Two fixes in one!
Last but not least Angels! They are clearly not up to par! The Machariel is way too big and thus an easy target for enemy snipers. Reduce its size by 33% to bring it in line with other Battleships! I didnt fly the other Angel ships last night, so maybe we can reduce their size too, i dont know. But this should be enough for angel ships, they are very powerful i heard!
This should bring faction ships in line for Fleet and POS warfare!
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.08.30 08:55:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 29/08/2009 19:59:55
I'm sure CCP learned alot about faction ship balance by putting 200 of them in a fleet and repeatedly doomsdaying them
I guess this is CCP's concession that the whole "faction ship balance" thing was pure bull*** and just an attempt to get enough people to show up for their stress test?
I mean, I'm sure it would be wonderful for every faction ship to be able to tank a DD or ten, but does anyone honestly think that we're going to see any fixes coming, with this kind of hilariously stupid "testing"?
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Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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something somethingdark
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Posted - 2009.08.30 12:50:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Perry
stuff
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Linas IV
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Posted - 2009.08.30 14:04:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Linas IV on 30/08/2009 14:06:39
Edited by: Linas IV on 30/08/2009 14:03:58
With the hope in mind that CCP is really interested in balancing the Ships, not just in stress-tests,
I'll try to state my opinion about the ones i know pretty well by now, the Republic-Fleet and
Angel-Cartel Ships. (owned Macharials for 2 years now)
RF-Firetail:
-Pretty good low-Sp-Ceptor, but a bit low DPS.
-Suggestion: Add the speed bonus to the base speed, and change it for a 5% projectile Dmg Bonus.
RF-Stabber / RF-Scythe:
-Pretty fine ships, have their niches.
RF-Tempest:
-Has the same problems as the normal Tempest, (below average large-ACs, too low PG and Range for Sniper fittings)
-Stats and Slot-layout are basicly fine.
-Suggestions: Buff Large Acs and increase the Powergrid (enough to fit 1400s + Plate + MWD), or completly change the Tempests Bonuses.
Dramiel:
-Screwed Slot-layout (2 med, 3 low, less than a Rifter!)
-Pretty much wasted Tripple-bonus, because it has only 2 Turrets.
-Suggestion: remove 1 high, 2 launchers, add a Med-slot and at least one Turret (maybe move another low to med aswell)
Cynabal:
-Worse than a Rupture in most cases because of the horrible low powergrid.
-Suggestions: Increase PG by 170
Machariel:
-Same Probs as the Tempest. (too low PG, pretty bad large ACs; fix them already!)
-Too High mass and therfore much too slow with AB/MWD at the moment to use the speed advantage.
Suggestions for an possible Angel rebalance: (Shieltank + Closerange Kiting)
-Move 1-2 Lows to Meds, on Cynabal and Machariel. (for better use of the speed advantage; plated Machs are poor)
-Change the Dmg-Bonus all the ships to 10% Falloff per level, and increase the Rof-Bonus to 7,5-8% per Level (to compensate the Dps-loss)
-Reduce the Mass on the Macha by 5-10%
-Fix Large ACs (5-10% moar Dps for example)
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.30 14:13:00 -
[63]
On the off-chance that CCP wants actual feedback on the faction ships, I'll paste the reviews from our wiki:
Dramiel: "Triple bonus to small projectile turrets, and two turret hardpoints out of five highs. A marvel of design ingenuity."
Cynabel: "suffers from serious fitting issues. It has the same high slot layout as the Rupture, and one additional low, but has 125 less grid with which to fit it. This makes it completely unsuited for using medium artillery and it even lacks with autocannon setups."
Machariel: "now little more than a Typhoon/Tempest hybrid with a good base speed [...] There is really little reason to fly a Machariel other than the fact that it looks cool"
Cruor: "not a ship for use in any manner, except to show off [...] All in all, this is a pretty useless frigate."
Ashimmu: "While sporting a Rapier/Curse bonus combo, it is ridiculously expensive and difficult to fit. The Ashimmu suffers horribly from the lack of a 4th midslot"
Bhaalgorn: "Ferocious tanking abilities with the NOS on, but, due to the lack of a damage bonus, mediocre DPS for a faction ship. [...] Unfortunately, the ship still isn't very good."
Worm: "A slightly better Merlin, the extra shields make it a fantastic Level 1 mission-runner. However that's about all it's good for since it carries no other noteworthy characteristics. And really, you could be using a destroyer to tear through Level 1 missions faster anyway."
Gila: "This ship is pretty terrible, it has split weapon bonuses and slots, low CPU/grid, low DPS, and its slow. Fly a cerberus instead which is completely superior in every way to this hunk of garbage."
Rattlesnake: "this ship is utterly useless in practice. It's very expensive and has no purpose whatsoever. For the ISK you'd spend on it for a PVE ship (since it's basically a Raven) you could buy a Golem or a, far cheaper, Raven Navy Issue, which are infinitely better. The hybrid bonus is useless in practice [...] too expensive for its role, and there are better options costing a fraction of its price which exceed it in every way. Even if this ship cost as much as its alternatives, it still would be inferior. Do not ever touch one or fly one"
Succubus: "The Succubus is by and far the best faction frigate in the game. Massive fitting numbers enable it to fit the classic oversized tank AND the biggest guns possible AND an MWD, all without fitting mods. While it only has two guns, the bonuses and its special ability means that it packs quite a punch."
Phantasm: "Flying the ship in PVP is only recommended if you enjoy shiny toys, since it is absolutely going to be a priority target for the enemy. For PVE uses it's a reasonably effective ratting ship."
Nightmare: "exceptionally expensive and, while it certainly is unique, the cost generally precludes use in 0.0 PVP. The primary use of the ship is as a pimped out mission running ship"
Daredevil "CCP and their dumb fetish with split slots strike again, with all of the damage bonuses limited to a single weapons system. Any utility the fourth mid may give you is overshadowed by the fact the Taranis does everything this ship does, but better."
Vigilant: "A Thorax on steroids, and with one more midslot than a Deimos it makes for a really good "Almost HAC" ship. Without rigs you'll have a lot of trouble fitting everything but thanks to it having more Rig slots and calibration points than the HAC you can work around this problem easily."
Vindicator: "nerfs, the rise of Recon ships in everyday fleets and sometimes Capitals in even the smallest gangs have made this thing a tomb to fly [...] can fit a respectable passive armor tank, but is outperformed by the far cheaper Megathron Navy Issue"
[part 2 coming]
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.30 14:33:00 -
[64]
Amarr Navy Slicer: "An overgrown Executioner designed as a really expensive Punisher with headlights and an extra low slot."
Caldari Navy Hookbill: "a hard tanker and that's it!"
Gallente Navy Comet: "There are only two things that make this ship interesting to goons:
1) The letters "GF-PD" are stamped on the side of it.
2) It has police lights."
Republic Fleet Firetail: "a very expensive Rifter with 2 missile and 2 turret hardpoints, and about 50% more shield and armor."
Augoror Navy Issue: "With the same powergrid as the Maller and seven lowslots as well it can fit a mean tank for a cruiser."
Omen Navy Issue: "This ship is good, but it's still some ways behind the Phantasm. The Phantasm can provide similar DPS, but with a better Alpha, a better range, a better tank and is more Cap stable than the Omen Navy Issue, at the cost of two drones and some effective HP, and a ****load more ISK and the inconvenience of cross-training. So if you're not going to bother with cross-training and need to spend 200m in a Cruiser, the Omen Navy Issue can be a good option. Only God however knows why you'd do that."
Osprey Navy Issue: "has a double bonus to Missiles, but is lacking in versatility due to the lack of utility highslots"
Caracal Navy Issue: "Marginally better than a Caracal but not quite as good as a Cerberus"
Exequeror Navy Issue: "This was a crappy ship anyway, and the speed nerf just totally ****d it"
Vexor Navy Issue: "a hybrid of a Thorax and a Vexor, with the turret slots of the former and the drone bonus and bay of the latter. Since both the Vexor and Thorax are excellent ships, the Vexor Navy Issue ends up being something of a powerhouse, able to output in excess of 700 DPS with good skills in a 'gank' fitting"
Scythe Fleet Issue: "basically a fast Bellicose with an extra highslot and a smaller dronebay"
Stabber Fleet Issue: "comparable to the Vagabond [...] probably the best Bumping vessel in the game when outfitted with a battleship-sized Micro Warp Drive"
Apocalypse Navy Issue: "400m isk. You get 20% more Armor, 20% more Shield and 1 more Low slot for your money"
Raven Navy Issue: "one of the single best ships for PvE, as its primary use is as a level four mission running machine"
Megathron Navy Issue: "It can tank a little bit better than the standard Megathron, but on the whole you're paying for an extra lowslot and ~1k more armor."
Tempest Fleet Issue: "No additional CPU or Grid, which makes actually USING that extra mid questionable, at least if you intend to try and shield-tank it."
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.08.30 15:14:00 -
[65]
Well, as I already posted ideas about this issue elsewhere, I'll just link to them.
On Pirate Faction Ships
(Alternative Guristas Modification)
On Empire Faction Ships
--------
Ideas for: Mining
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To mare
Amarr
Advanced Technology
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Posted - 2009.08.30 16:14:00 -
[66]
for the faction ships i have flown i can say:
-cruor is useless, too low mids
-ashimmu have terrible fitting, need a drone bay, laser bonus is useless cause it cant fit them anyway.
-bhaalgorn not bad but fitting is too tight and again laser bonus isnt the optimal(maybe a projectile bons or a dmg bonus to laser).
-dramiel need a 3rd turret
-cynabal need more fitting, AC+1600plate+2 missile launcher/med neut and it could have a niche over the fleet stabber/rupture
-Machariel lost the only thing where it was good at in the nano nerf, need more speed and better agility. suffer the large projectile suckage.
-fleet tempest suffer the large projectile suckage as well as the machariel. FIX LARGE PROJECTILE.
-rf scythe, rf firetail, gn comet, cn hookbill all have a crappy split weapon system, fix it.
if someone tell me to stop whine about fitting, and to use faction fit on faction ships just look at the sansha ships, they can be fully fitted with T2 stuff and fitting problem at all. hell the nightmare can even fit a rack of tachyon + mwd w/o fitting mods.
and to all the ppl who suggested to give faction ships a marauder bonus pls stop it, its not needed.
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Imiarr Timshae
Caldari
Funny Men In Funny Hats
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Posted - 2009.08.30 16:33:00 -
[67]
Feedback on faction ships :
My personal view on all of the faction ships, having flown them all, is that rather than being special they are simply alternative. The empire faction variants are fine, being an improvement on the regulars, which they are, but the Nightmare/Vindicator/Bhaalgorn/Rattlesnake/Machariel arn't an improvement on anything.
The lack of a unique feel was dispelled somewhat with the Nightmare's damage bonus, and I think that applying this to all of the faction ships would simply make you some Marauders with three rig slots.
Instead, I think that the faction ships should gain some more character to them, other than just being "I do missions in it, it's great."
I would suggest that the faction ships be given all around bonuses, as they are "modified" versions of empire ships, souped up arsekicking machines, or, in Sansha's case, a whole new monstrosity.
A bonus to everything I think would be suitable, something along the lines of a 5% boost to all modules of all kinds. (Not per level, just 5%
This means :
Shield boosters boost 5% more and cost 5% less cap, and have 5% less cycle time.
Armor Hardeners have 5% more resistances (pre stacking) and 5% longer cycle time and 5% less cap.
Missile launchers have 5% faster ROF, 5% more damage, 5% lower reload times, 5% more capacity.
Armor plates give 5% more armor bonus
And, to add to this, all modules have 5% lower fitting requirements.
It would seem imbalanced, but it isn't simply due to these faction ships rarity. They become a viable option for fleet combat when they are that much better but cost you 1bn+.
It fits in with the idea of the custom faction ships : (Guristas pinching a Scorpion and making it awesome?) and it won't make them too powerful as marauders will still be better for marauder type operations yet it will provide faction ships with a unique niche. Faction frigates will be useable in PvP etc.
In my opinion this idea would give the pirate faction battleships a much needed boost to simply make them something more than "Hey look I got a navy mega from Serpentis.", without making them any rarer or more common this would really make them feel more like the unique modified piratemobiles they should be.
Anyway, my idea.
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bassie12bf1
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Posted - 2009.08.30 16:41:00 -
[68]
Fleet Scythe needs something so it get's used for something good since I never ever see one unlike the Fleet Stabber which are seen more often.
Sansha ships are by far the best dps boats for low sp people if you ask me.
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Linas IV
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Posted - 2009.08.30 19:21:00 -
[69]
CCP throw us a bone please. Are you planning to rebalance the faction-ships or is this just a "for fun" Event.
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Sinnbad Mayhem
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Posted - 2009.08.30 20:40:00 -
[70]
Very enjoyable event both days. Lag was barely noticeable and the fleet was well behaved. Hopefully we get some constructive feedback from this.
I doubt anyone on TQ will ever get the chance to blow up THAT many Faction BS in one go but was very cool to witness it both days
Surviving 3x DDs with more than half my Armor...in a Navy Apoc.... Priceless
S&M |
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CCP WeirdFish
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Posted - 2009.08.30 20:48:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Linas IV
CCP throw us a bone please. Are you planning to rebalance the faction-ships or is this just a "for fun" Event.
I need your constructive opinions on the ships, so please go to the feedback thread and give me your opinions, that was the aim of the event.
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Denalak
Gallente
Maelstrom Crew
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Posted - 2009.08.30 21:25:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 29/08/2009 19:59:55
I'm sure CCP learned alot about faction ship balance by putting 200 of them in a fleet and repeatedly doomsdaying them
I guess this is CCP's concession that the whole "faction ship balance" thing was pure bull*** and just an attempt to get enough people to show up for their stress test?
I mean, I'm sure it would be wonderful for every faction ship to be able to tank a DD or ten, but does anyone honestly think that we're going to see any fixes coming, with this kind of hilariously stupid "testing"?
I take it you guys missed the baddass and slightly RP wormhole session?
I and DO believe that kind of testing will help out since it was a 'stress' test. Im sure todays event will give a good idea to CCP of what can be added in the future. Otherwise how will you know what your system can do (CCP servers) if you dont test out what they are capable of doing?
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ShadowGod56
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Posted - 2009.08.30 21:34:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
Originally by: CCP WeirdFish
The fleet and pos test are purely to get some numbers and data the idea is to give you the ships and then let you play with them and that's where we get our balance data. Yes there will be stress tests runing but the aim of the whole event is to get a feeling of how you all see the ships as comparing with there T1 and T2 counterparts as well as each other.
What balance "data" are you hoping to get? That most people feel that the Machariel is a poor ship for killing POSes? No ****, nobody uses it in that role or expects it to be good in that role. The "data" you are going to get is about as relevant to balance decisions as if you decided to test mining barge balance in a POS fight.
There are two things you should do:
1) Read the MANY balance threads that have already been posted. There have been many good ideas, and vast amounts of constructive feedback, and all you have to do is go read it.
2) Test faction ships in solo and small gang fights. Unlike POS killing and large fleet fights, these are the situations where people actually USE faction ships. And since the balance issues, fundamental tactics, etc, are all completely different from POSes/fleet fights, you will get feedback that you could not get from your current plan.
Or take the third option: admit that all this talk of "balance" is just a way to get lots of people to sign on for your stress test. Seriously, we would have a much higher opinion of your judgment if you just admitted the faction ships are just bait, rather than pretty much the worst possible approach to balancing you could possibly think of.
all of this to be honist
testing faction ships in massive blobs where their unique bonuses don't stand it is completely ******ed
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Denalak
Gallente
Maelstrom Crew
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Posted - 2009.08.31 04:01:00 -
[74]
I made a bunch of clips with todays event and thought I would share what a badass day it was today.
Nice to have some fun while CCP test their servers.
Im no video editor btw , I just record and convert.
Enjoy.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Denalak/SISI_Faction_Event_Clips.rar
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.02 06:13:00 -
[75]
Hi.
Please buff the following ships: Machariel and Dramiel.
I don't know if they are balanced or not, but I need to sell some more of them and hope that you can help me by increasing the demand for those ships.
The rest of the faction ship can be nerfed.
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ollobrains
5th Front enterprises
CryoGenesis Mining Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.09.03 11:22:00 -
[76]
suggest u guys leave the nightmare. It does a good amount of damage but given the price of 1.2b isk its by far the most expensive to. 4 laser slots that do a large amount of damage ut 2 other slots that can only take something like cloaker or nos.
Plus the fact the cap can run down pretty quickly and the need for a few shield mods its good on dps but if its sucked dry or being attacked at close range then they are sitting ducks unless i na gang ( esp against a bhaalgorn)
Otherwise vindicator needs something projectile bonus perhaps ?
Other ships seem fairly balanced machriel might get a small damage boost and a small resistance boost and nerf its top speed a little.
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2009.09.03 11:40:00 -
[77]
nerf sansha ships to the level of the others, problem solved
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Stealthbug
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Posted - 2009.09.04 02:44:00 -
[78]
Originally by: 1600 RT
nerf sansha ships to the level of the others, problem solved
part of me just died from reading that... :(
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.04 09:52:00 -
[79]
Originally by: 1600 RT
nerf sansha ships to the level of the others, problem solved
Alright, here are my proposals:
Keep 100% damage bonus to lasers, but half the number of turrets.
Since we halved the turrets, cut PG and CPU appropriately, and then some more.
Remove drone bays.
Change tracking bonuses to cap use bonus. On hybrid weapons.
Job done! 
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Cpt Branko
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.09.05 00:27:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 05/09/2009 00:28:14
On the ships I've flown:
- Cynabal: you get a rupture with a extra low and less fitting space, and less dronebay. Plus, inferior tracking bonus to the fleet stabber.
The ship needs the following:
- 10%/level tracking bonus (inline with fleet stabber)
- 25m3 dronebay/bandwidth
- +150 grid
What it could really use, however, is this:
-1 highslot, +1 midslot
That would make it a interesting counterpart to the fleet stabber.
I also don't really like the looks of it, but eh.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
James Vayne
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Posted - 2009.09.09 15:53:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: 1600 RT
nerf sansha ships to the level of the others, problem solved
Alright, here are my proposals:
Keep 100% damage bonus to lasers, but half the number of turrets
So you'd have a Succubus running around with one turret would you?
if you half the amount of turrets on the others it wouldn't be worth having the bonuses. You'd be suffering from the same problem the dramiel is.
Dramiel, by the way, desperately needs:
Powergrid/CPU boost.
Third Turret (at the expense of a launcher)
Third Mid.
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.09 17:12:00 -
[82]
maybe it's time for an outline of pirate faction ships - a manifest if you will...
like we have for sanshas, being shield tanking marauders;
angels could keep their slot layout (pending (major) projectile corrections). this may have made sense once upon a time with propulsion upgrades working differently. but unless they get a... +50 to +100% speed role/race/whatev' bonus, this'll never work out. signature in today's day and age may work on specialized scimitars and inties but that's it, really. so i fear they'll have to become an armor race.
blood raiders are weird but somehow that's the fun. however, their bonuses don't work together well. therefore, i'd suggest changing bonuses to something like...
role bonus: +50% nos/neut amount
per level(s):
cruor: +20% nos/neut range, +5% web strength
ashi: +10% nos/neut range, +5% web range+strength
bhaal: +15% web range, 5% web strength
- and ofc the obvious fitting stats boost
i don't have much experience with guristas... -.-
serpentis.... +7.5%/lvl to the effectiveness of damage controls...? :D
and we'd need the same outlines for empire faction ships really... seeing how this new tempest doesnt originate from any existing minmatar philosophy, maybe it's time to draft one. as i posted before, we do have the "new" fleet stabber, which could make an excellent basis for speedy minne ships with drones, a alot layout that favours T1 armor tanking against lasers, some tracking to go along with a built-in extra-speed.
the phoon has the slot layout and the drones already and offers missiles instead of tracking - works for me. if the tempest ends up looking like a geddon slot-wise, then that's ok, too. bring in the role players immersionists to bombard us with stuff like minmatar taking amarr tech with them when they "left"
this may leave us with little room for a future addition of ammatar ships but i don't see that happening for the next five years anyways -.-
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putting the gist back into logistics |
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