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Ninker
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 02:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've heard people claim you can make two billion a month running PI.
I'm guessing to do this you'd need 6 installations in low or null sec.
Is it possible? I've only just started with PI so I've yet to really see how profitable it is. |

Joshua Vaughn Lampen
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 03:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yes it's completely possible provided you have multiple accounts and several PI alts to support high-end production. You really have to do it in null or low sec to make it worthwhile. Currently with my entire network running I'm bringing in 57,050,568.00 ISK per day after taxes, market costs, and transportation fees are taken into account. That's about 1.7 billion a month give or take depending on market prices. I make 4 different P4 products to ensure that there's pretty consistent demand. This is all done with 5 characters, 4 of which exist only to support my main. |

Ninker
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 03:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
I see.
So your main does the final reaction while the others provide tier 2 or 3 items? |

Joshua Vaughn Lampen
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 03:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ninker wrote:I see.
So your main does the final reaction while the others provide tier 2 or 3 items?
Yep. The PI alt's only need about 11 days of training to use a bestower with 13k m3 of space and CC IV & IC IV. |

Eric Raeder
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 03:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
It doesn't really matter who does final assembly, the skills for PI are pretty quick to train, and none give any advantage in assembly. More skill lets you build colonies with more buildings, have colonies on more planets, and locate resources a little more precisely, but not make anything faster per building.
And as the previous reply suggests, trying to pin down an hourly income doesn't really work... most of your income is made when you are offline or doing something else. Its not an active profession like mining or running complexes, where income is directly proportional to time spent.
And I seriously doubt anyone can make 2 biliion a month with a measly six colonies. Serious PI industrialists train multiple characters. The second and third toons on your account are fine for doing PI. |

Trollin
67
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 10:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
to pull 2bn you would need to be in null with your own poco's on 5 planets with 2 accts (6 characters) = 30 planets worth of harvest
also need to relocate and cycle your extractors every 24 hrs on all 30 planets
it takes anywhere from 3-6 hours per day to do, closer to 3 the less distractions you have and the more skilled you get at it
then you need to haul it all on a weekly basis, about 500k m3 weekly (13 trips in a cargo rigged occator, or 41 trips in a viator) its ~ another 2-6 hours unless you have a JF and all planets in the same system
if that appeals to you, as well as losing about 45-75 days of training per account, have fun.
the 45-75 days depends on how much hassle you want to go into with training the scanning skills on everyone or using 1 person to scan and then having to find and transpose their scans on the alts without scan skills
after about 15 days of doing this, u will want to kill yourself, just push thru u will be fine im sure. . |

Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Intrepid Crossing
340
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 11:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yeah I'm not sure why people say Yeah, you can make 2 bil a month (with 5 accounts)! That sort of question and answer needs to be relative to something. If it takes you 5 accounts to make 2 bill, that's 400 per character, which isn't enough for a plex. So do you really need those accounts? Be a hell of a lot easier to just buy/sell plex with your 15 bucks. More isk too. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |

Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
111
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 12:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Actually you can do 6 characters on just 2 accounts.
Because PI is passive, you can actually make use of your alt slots rather than having to buy up whole new accounts for your additional characters. Sure you knock off some training time from your main while you train up your alts, but once they're done with their PI skills (and some basic hauling) you can resume training on your main and reap the benefits from them.
I agree that milking PI with extra characters is only really worth it if you are doing it in low/null and have access to/own POCOs with good tax rates. This is especially important with factory planets, as importing/exporting higher tier goods on 10% Concord planets will devour your profits.
I don't make minerals. I just make ore 20% cooler. |

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1136
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 13:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Wormhole PI deserves a honourable mention too, for smaller entities or even solo players. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T T2 BPO poll : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 |

Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Intrepid Crossing
340
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 14:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pinstar Colton wrote:Actually you can do 6 characters on just 2 accounts.
Because PI is passive, you can actually make use of your alt slots rather than having to buy up whole new accounts for your additional characters. Sure you knock off some training time from your main while you train up your alts, but once they're done with their PI skills (and some basic hauling) you can resume training on your main and reap the benefits from them.
I agree that milking PI with extra characters is only really worth it if you are doing it in low/null and have access to/own POCOs with good tax rates. This is especially important with factory planets, as importing/exporting higher tier goods on 10% Concord planets will devour your profits.
True true
But I'm not sure it's passive unless you just do p1. Even then you have to log in to the chars and do the clickfest for a bit and shipping. PI takes time and is anything but passive income, make no doubt about that. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |

Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
111
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 15:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
I agree that it has to be maintained and is not truely passive.
But compare having an alt-account to be a dedicated hauler for your main who mines. You need that hauler to be a 2nd account since the whole point is having two ships active at the same time so they can work together.
With two PI alts, you can easily log onto 1, do PI updates/hauling. Then Log off, log onto alt #2 and repeat. You don't need to have them online at the same time to gain their full benefit. Sure, the alt halts your main's training for a little while while they train up PI skills, but that is just a one time cost.
I only used the P1 example as that is what I do right now. However, I operate in the same area as my planets so visiting them every other day is part of my routine. There are certainly more passive ways to do PI
The most passive thing I can think of is a single-planet P2 setup. Because P2s are so much smaller than their component P1 materials, you can have them cook even longer before needing to pick up and empty the launchpads. When you do need to haul, you visit it once to take the P2s to market. No fussing with importing needed. I find success with 2 ECUs, 4 basic factories (2 for each type) and 2 advanced factories. The only tricky part is balancing the supply of the two materials so that you don't get a buildup of too much of one type over the other.
I don't make minerals. I just make ore 20% cooler. |

Ninker
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 15:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
At the moment I have the following setup.
1 Oceanic producing Viral Agents
2 Storm, the first is building superconductors and the second is making synthetic oil.
1 Temperate which is making Polytextiles.
Low sec space.
I'm still training the skills for the additional two planets. Not really sure what to take when I get them. |

Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
111
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 17:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ninker wrote:At the moment I have the following setup.
1 Oceanic producing Viral Agents
2 Storm, the first is building superconductors and the second is making synthetic oil.
1 Temperate which is making Polytextiles.
Low sec space.
I'm still training the skills for the additional two planets. Not really sure what to take when I get them.
IC V and CC V aren't really worth the time IMO. If you really want more PI once you hit rank IV in both, roll an alt and train them up. You'll get a full set of 5 more colonies in the time it would take you to get a 6th with your main.
I don't make minerals. I just make ore 20% cooler. |

Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Intrepid Crossing
340
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 19:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Both skills at *nice* to have though :p Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |

Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
363
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 04:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Pinstar Colton wrote:IC V and CC V aren't really worth the time IMO. If you really want more PI once you hit rank IV in both, roll an alt and train them up. You'll get a full set of 5 more colonies in the time it would take you to get a 6th with your main.
IPC V is debatable (extra planet means more money, but more work as well), but on anything but your main CCUV is a really good skill to have. More grid/cpu gives you more extractors, which is longer cycles, which is less work. That's definitely worth it, doubly so if you're running multiple PI accounts.
It's the only PI skill really worth having at V, though.
edit: this is of course assuming P2 setups (assumed b/c the person you quoted was producing P2's). I really don't know if it'd be a difference on P1 setups or not, as far as less work goes anyway. |

Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
59
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 16:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Pinstar Colton wrote:IC V and CC V aren't really worth the time IMO. If you really want more PI once you hit rank IV in both, roll an alt and train them up. You'll get a full set of 5 more colonies in the time it would take you to get a 6th with your main. IPC V is debatable (extra planet means more money, but more work as well), but on anything but your main CCUV is a really good skill to have. More grid/cpu gives you more extractors, which is longer cycles, which is less work. That's definitely worth it, doubly so if you're running multiple PI accounts. It's the only PI skill really worth having at V, though. edit: this is of course assuming P2 setups (assumed b/c the person you quoted was producing P2's). I really don't know if it'd be a difference on P1 setups or not, as far as less work goes anyway.
Really you shouldn't train V on any PI skills. In the time it takes you train 1 skill to V, you can roll an alt and train all other PI skills to IV. I run PI on 3 accounts and make about 1 billion a month, give or take 200mil depending on the market, this is in a combination of nul and low. |

Layckhaie Kaele
Serra Industries
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 23:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
Trollin wrote:to pull 2bn you would need to be in null with your own poco's on 5 planets with 2 accts (6 characters) = 30 planets worth of harvest
also need to relocate and cycle your extractors every 24 hrs on all 30 planets
it takes anywhere from 3-6 hours per day to do, closer to 3 the less distractions you have and the more skilled you get at it
then you need to haul it all on a weekly basis, about 500k m3 weekly (13 trips in a cargo rigged occator, or 41 trips in a viator) its ~ another 2-6 hours unless you have a JF and all planets in the same system
if that appeals to you, as well as losing about 45-75 days of training per account, have fun.
the 45-75 days depends on how much hassle you want to go into with training the scanning skills on everyone or using 1 person to scan and then having to find and transpose their scans on the alts without scan skills
after about 15 days of doing this, u will want to kill yourself, just push thru u will be fine im sure.
Not entirely sure how accurate these numbers are, but Trollin here definitely has a point. Even if you can make 2B per month that is still only around ~66.6M per day. Let's say that you are super efficient - and you 'only' need 2 hours on average for your PI operation (restarting extractors, hauling PI goods around, etc...) that averages out to like ~33.3M per hour played. At a cost of 2 accounts and quite a few character slots.
I see PI as a good side project for people that multi-task:
- low/null-sec residents that hang around in the same system and can do PI while doing something else. - wormhole residents. - or new pilots with not a lot of skill points and low initial capital (and even then you would need a WH/low/null-sec system and access to POCOs as doing PI in high-sec is not worth it)
On the other hand, starting a PI operation just for the sake of PI is a bad idea in my opinion. Contrary to what most people seem to think PI is NOT passive income. Setting up ~30 something planets takes pretty much the whole day (12+ hours) and I'm pretty sure managing ~30 colonies for a long period of time would get very tiresome and you would burn out sooner or later. --- My blog | http://eve-eternity.blogspot.com/ |

Maximus Hashur
Free Kandee IDENTITY UNKN0WN
8
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 02:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
Im about to launch a PI endeavor into null sec and have a few questions:
With multiple PI toons how do i pickup one toons product with a seperate toon? IE i have a toon trained to fly a viator and one who is not. They both will have 5 planets each and i want to have my viator pilot do the rounds and pickup for both. Same senario if i follow this threads advice and fill each of my accounts other two slots with PI alts. I have the potential of having 30 planets.
Can i give my viator pilot access to my other toons product so he can get it out of nullsec.
Also i am planning on setting up in npc null to avoid sov issues as im unknown and neutral. Is npc null fair game for PI? |

Raziel Walker
Grey Templars Ushra'Khan
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 14:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
I do PI with 5 characters in high sec, it takes me 1 or 2 hours a day to keep them running on cycles of 1day45 minutes. I extract and then produce to P2 materials on most of my planets.
If you can manage to extract 6000 P0 per hour (x2) you can keep one basic factory running producing 40 P1 per hour (x2) producing 5 P2 per hour. Let's say I waste some time or don't extract enough materials but still get 100 P2 per day on each planet.
P2 export tax is 900. Let's say you sell P2 for 4900 giving you 4k profit per P2. 4000*100*5 planets*3 characters = 6 million per day or 180 million a month.
PI is low risk so low reward. null/lowsec gives better numbers of course. |

Khadann
First Legion
29
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 18:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
Joshua Vaughn Lampen wrote:Yes it's completely possible provided you have multiple accounts and several PI alts to support high-end production. You really have to do it in null or low sec to make it worthwhile. Currently with my entire network running I'm bringing in 57,050,568.00 ISK per day after taxes, market costs, and transportation fees are taken into account. That's about 1.7 billion a month give or take depending on market prices. I make 4 different P4 products to ensure that there's pretty consistent demand. This is all done with 5 characters, 4 of which exist only to support my main.
My god, you must spend your day in logistic over your characters :s |

Selissa Shadoe
90
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 18:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Trollin wrote:after about 15 days of doing this, u will want to kill yourself, just push thru u will be fine im sure.
LOL
Rarely do posts make me really laugh out loud but that was great. |

Masterofone
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 05:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
Maximus Hashur wrote:Im about to launch a PI endeavor into null sec and have a few questions:
With multiple PI toons how do i pickup one toons product with a seperate toon? IE i have a toon trained to fly a viator and one who is not. They both will have 5 planets each and i want to have my viator pilot do the rounds and pickup for both. Same senario if i follow this threads advice and fill each of my accounts other two slots with PI alts. I have the potential of having 30 planets.
Can i give my viator pilot access to my other toons product so he can get it out of nullsec.
Also i am planning on setting up in npc null to avoid sov issues as im unknown and neutral. Is npc null fair game for PI?
Short answer for your hauling question: NO
Each character has a seperate storage space in the POCO and you cannot grant access to anyone for your space.
That said, if your system is busy your gonna have to take the little bit of time to train your alts up to a basic hauler. Put up a basic POS for a consolidation/storage area (moon mine to offset your fuel cost).
If your system is typcially very quiet, have your non-hauling alt pick up some, jet can, fill the can from the poco and have the hauler get the can.
Personally I have all my alts trained to basic hauler, lead on account 1 trained to max T1 hauler and account 2 lead trained for blockade runner. Currently all my PI is in two neighboring systems over 20 something planets and growing.
I use three day cycles and staggar them, so not all characters are due on the same day. (and i'm lazy and don't want to move the ECU when the spot dries up) Fly fast and shoot straight, find peace when you need it, war when you want it, love always and turn up the music. |

Haffsol
Froody Guys Spaceships Business
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 11:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
Quote:I do PI with 5 characters in high sec, it takes me 1 or 2 hours a day to keep them running on cycles of 1day45 minutes. I extract and then produce to P2 materials on most of my planets.
If you can manage to extract 6000 P0 per hour (x2) you can keep one basic factory running producing 40 P1 per hour (x2) producing 5 P2 per hour. Let's say I waste some time or don't extract enough materials but still get 100 P2 per day on each planet.
P2 export tax is 900. Let's say you sell P2 for 4900 giving you 4k profit per P2. 4000*100*5 planets*3 characters = 6 million per day or 180 million a month. your maths are slightly incorrect since you should be producing 120 P2 per day if you can extract 6000 P0 per hr, but anyway they give the right proportion of PI incomes. I'd just like to point out that in low sec you can get the same icomes and even some more on a single character extracting 12k P0/hr thus 240 P2 per day on a single planet. Of course you'll have to double also taxes and add some more if you produce at least one P3.
What is also remarkable as far as I've seen is that assuming you have both CCU and IC at lvl 4, you won't get much more going null or even w-space (which should be the best since -1 sec), simply because with said skills you can't add a 3rd ECU or install the BIF to support an extra AIF. I could be wrong tho since I only made some maths and never installed a CC in 0.0 nor in -1. Basically you should try to extract 18k P0 units with less heads (at least 2 less heads, maybe 3) and I doubt it is possible.
If I'm still correct now, then things could change quite a lot skilling CCU and IC at lvl 5. Having them, owning your own POCO's and being in w-space would give you easily the so much desired plex/month and prolly even more, but meh! that's a really risky business and you will need to scout a lot before going to scoop your stuff, not to mention POCO griefers and wardecs |

Unimaginative Guy
Dutch Squad Chained Reactions
15
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 23:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
That sounds terribly boring and tiresom to have it on that money. Most of my friends just run it on one char and one account for an easy chunk of cash each month, like 50-100m or something.
Once you get ridiculious with the amount of characters and accounts it just becomes more profitable to use the $15 a month for plex or just run a quick l4 or 2 every day. |

Shou Kaukonen
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 05:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
Don't remember who it was, but I heartily second the poster above who said you'd want to commit suicide if your PI scheme was too involved. Pretty much the same thing happened to me at one point, totally burnt me out on it for quite awhile.
It's true that PI pays off proportional to your effort, but even a lazy player who doesn't min/max every detail can still do fairly well. I've got 15 planets, propped up by the 3 characters on my account mostly working to keep a single p4 factory running 24/7 (doable with lvl 4 skills and pretty decent low sec planets). This makes me about 250 mil profit per month, plus whatever a single spare p2 world makes, and since I do 7 day cycles that means I spend about 1-2 hours a week on PI.
In my experience and hearing what others have to say, PI seems to suffer from a bit of a diminishing-returns curve at high levels: you can make a few mil a month for virtually no effort at all, and a couple hundred mil a month for only slight effort...but at the point where your PI operations are drawing billions of ISK, unless you have VERY high quality planets, there's quite probably something more efficient you could be making money at. It's definitely worth dealing with, though...I can attest that PI was the profession that got me 'off the ground', isk-wise, so that I didn't have to wonder where my next set of mods was coming from. |

Chad Moody
Miners In Possession
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 15:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
I have five accounts with 5 mains and 2 alts on each acccount. I do PI with each toon for a total of 15 toons with 5 planets each. I put my extractors on a 14 day cycle but, I reset them every 3 days before their extraction curve falls too low. I do this all in a wormhole with POCO's that are set at zero tax. I make well in excess of 4 bill a month in PI income. I use my mains to do other things so the accounts arent just sitting there idle. Anybody that has open slots in their accounts and isnt doing PI is cheating themselves out of free isk. |

LordAssasin
Tz Industries AAA Citizens
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 14:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
So nice to come back to eve...after all this time in D3 -monk in inferno:) I make that money what you say, just need 1 day for combining alts....comand center 3 and planets 3 , and you only put 6 basic+1launchpad so this are youre combiners for free. meean wile your 5 5 skils char extract double the raw material with 2 extractors 19 heads 1 launch pad and 3 storage facility. nice no? and is all for free:) cos of the 21 day invite +30 day plex. Uber cool. Ok my sugestion, on the combiners do them exaclty as the extractors so you will not move anything at all. just jetison so you do not need any bestower on the combiners just a ship cos you wil have 27k m3 can to move stuff around. ok later hope it was of any help. |

Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
142
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 15:18:00 -
[28] - Quote
Chad Moody wrote:I have five accounts with 5 mains and 2 alts on each acccount. I do PI with each toon for a total of 15 toons with 5 planets each. I put my extractors on a 14 day cycle but, I reset them every 3 days before their extraction curve falls too low. I do this all in a wormhole with POCO's that are set at zero tax. I make well in excess of 4 bill a month in PI income. I use my mains to do other things so the accounts arent just sitting there idle. Anybody that has open slots in their accounts and isnt doing PI is cheating themselves out of free isk.
Exactly. If you don't have access to low/no tax POCOs, it might not be worth the effort to train up your alts for additional PI. But anyone who has access to a good set of planets should have all their Alts trained in PI to milk it. Also, don't waste your time getting your main a 6th colony until your other slots all have 5 colonies of their own. You can train an alt's entire array of PI skills in the time it takes you to train your main for Interplanetary Consolidation V.
My only question is this: For those of you who have extensive networks of alts/ alt-accounts. How far into Planetology/Advanced Planetology do you go? In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse. |

Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 15:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
I can't speak for others, but for me PI was really something that I just got into as a safety net. Even if we got wardecced and I got my butt blasted all the way back into a rookie ship, nothing can take away my planet factories once they're placed and I can manage them without even leaving my hanger. So long as I can get the lowliest industry ship out to the customs office and back, I'm going to have some kind of income coming in. Even if you're just making a measly 1 million ISK a day, well that's a couple disposable frigates or a cheap destroyer that effectively cost you nothing and with zero risk. So even if worse comes to worst, I'll still have PI income to fall back on.
Also, if you're in a corp that has or wants to have a POS (I don't), then PI for pretty much every player in is a Very Good Thing. If you can get everyone in your corp fabricating things like Robotics, Mechanical Parts, Oxygen, and Enriched Uranium then your corp as a whole will save quite a few ISK over time when it comes to fuel costs (i.e. make it yourselves and $ave). And that's before you get into advanced ship construction... So it's not always about making money. PI can also be a tool to save money, too. Which, if you think about it, is just as good in the long run.
|

Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
143
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 15:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
Be careful with the "mining is free" syndrome when it comes to PI and POS fuel. There are some cases where it makes perfect sense to do your own PI and use it yourself for POS fuel, like in the case of Enriched Uranium and Robotics. Others with lower market values, such as Mechanical Parts and Oxygen, might be better off purchased, freeing your colonies to make something with a higher market value.
Then again, if shipping to and from market creates a logistical problem, then making your own stuff locally makes perfect sense.
In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse. |
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