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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.26 13:34:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Offering to purchase accounts at reduced value to allow immediate liquidity for certain customers is actually a novel idea.
Ebank loses nothing, and the seller gets their isk immediately and the purchaser stands to make out like a mint.
I'd likely throw 400b easy into such a credit default swap.
I think you don't know what a credit default swap is.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.26 14:40:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Edited by: Kazzac Elentria on 26/08/2009 13:37:03
Originally by: Kalrand
I think you don't know what a credit default swap is.
Well it technically wouldn't be a CDS, but its about as close as we can call it given the situation.
..closer to creditor selling off an account to a collection agency only just not wrapped up into a security product. But the point still stands.
*edited cause I can't speak right this morning
"Factoring" is what you were looking for here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factoring_(finance)
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.26 14:54:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Dzil This is what I'm hearing, do I understand you correctly?
Correct. Go on, ask me to explain why so you can turn around and tell me how my point of view sucks donkey balls.
"Here's some free money for depositors!"
"Oh no. We wouldn't want them getting any of that."
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.26 15:08:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Vilgan i'Lakin Kind of a bummer for active players that they are getting treated the same as people who dropped their isk into ebank before taking a 1, 2, 3 year or infinite break from eve.
Honestly, when the whole Ricdic thing broke, I thought this would be what would save Ebank. The ginormous amount of zombie capitol stuffed into the bank by inactive accounts.
I honestly think they should see just who's active and wants their isk back. They might not be liquid enough to do it instantly, but I'd put a decent sized bet on that they could match demand by selling assets.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.26 18:04:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
The only way we can account for players that leave is if they delete their accounts, and even then we'd have to search for them manually in-game.
You're joking right? Flag any account thats seen no activity from the user (logging in to check their account, deposits, etc) in the last six months.
Those people forgot they have an account/left eve.
Free money! Hooray! You're solvent again!
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.26 18:07:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ulstan
You're a bit late. Fury bank was already created, flourished, then vanished into the ether with billions of investors ISK and no word since.
So GBank really is next, eh?
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.26 20:28:00 -
[7]
The more I think about this, the more I see this really needing a Good Bank/Bad Bank solution.
Good Bank 1) New Deposits, and new capitol from a few big investors (initially thinking the BoD members). Perhaps a short term bond could be issued.
2) Run it on the current website, and use your existing infrastructure, which from all accounts is top notch.
3)Run the bank openly with full transparency this time.
Bad Bank 1) Issue 1,900,000 in game shares from an alt corp, and distribute one for every million ISK someone has in Ebank right now.
2) Distribute the balance of the shares (it won't be exactly even due to rounding, but there will be some left over) to the new bank so it opens with a positive balance sheet.
3) Send out the issued shares to the record holder characters.
4) Pay one big opening dividend of the free cash in the current ebank.
5) Over the next few months, sell assets and loans to either people on MD, or the Good Bank (as it accumulates deposits), and pay dividends out to the share holders. At some point, auction the legacy assets to someone (or the good bank buys them out)
6) Close the corporation.
I'd be willing to advise with this, without asking for any access or roles that require trust.
What does this do?
Make the existing balances salable and give the people with stuck isk liquidity.
Keep ebank's operations as a going concern.
Let people feel better about depositing ISK into the Good Bank, knowing they aren't burdened by Ricdic's mess.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.26 20:37:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ulecese I mentioned this earlier in the thread but it seems to have been overlooked.
Anyhow, a couple of recent manipulation lessons to some hub traders has freed up alot more capital that has now been earmarked for reaqusitioning Ihatalo Cartel stock were possible.
[IHAFS] is now in a position to, if the Ebank BOD so desires, repurchase ALL 'Ihatalo Research and Development' shares you currently hold for 50,000 ISK each per unit (Ebank bought them at 27,000 ISK - so very good return - sell em :P ).
In addition, we can also buy back 6 of your [IRD] 7.5% bonds for full value if you wish. So, including the shares buyback that would be a cool 20b for Ebank to play with or release in limited withdrawals, whatever. :P
Let me know asap as we have other lucrative projects this can goto and I don't want to be sitting around waiting
Regards Ulecese
Take the man up on the shares, but those bonds are worth more.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.26 20:48:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ulecese forgot to mention, I'll take all your 'Gordon Freeman Tech III' at current value also.
I valued that holding (under what I could back out of Ebank's method, which I disagree with) at 175,000,000 isk, not 133 Mil.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.26 20:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Seyah Tebut :words:
The problem wasn't just Ricdic carting off with a big pile of money, it was the garbage loans he was handing out for years.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.26 22:27:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ulecese
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Ulecese forgot to mention, I'll take all your 'Gordon Freeman Tech III' at current value also.
I valued that holding (under what I could back out of Ebank's method, which I disagree with) at 175,000,000 isk, not 133 Mil.
How have you came to that assessment on it's value, care to share?
Ray has confidence in its ability to continue as a going concern, so I'm discounted any credit impairment I'd normally add. Ray's numbers have it tossing off 7 million isk a month. I'm not going to argue with his assessment of their ability to do that. He appears to put a 4ish% discount rate on anything that he likes. I'm not going to be the one who tells him it's too low.
So yea. then it boils down to 7,000,000/0.04 = 175Mil.
Personally I'd offer in the neighborhood of 59 million, but I also think the MD valuations are insane right now. You people pay way too much for way too little.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.26 22:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Lexander Morinex
Originally by: Ith Ratheos
I think a good number of people at this point would be willing to accept a return of 50 cents on the dollar. The risk of waiting this out is that more will be stolen and potentially nothing returned.
Since EBANK is basically stating that the current deposits will grow up to 2t at a growth rate of roughly 8% a month it really depends.
The basic math on the risk analysis is few MD investments are worth the risk. It does amuse me that for all the propaganda and statements from the EBANK group this does look surprisingly like either a Ponzi or a very badly invested operation.
I just don't see how Ray can reasonably expect 8% a month compounded growth for assets worth over 1t. I will note that when DBANK hit about 300b it was pointed out how incredibly hard it was for a company to offer rates above 5%.
It bothers me that the BoD of EBANK has made this decision without consulting the owners of the accounts. I understand the situation but I think a lot of players would feel they could do better in practice than EBANK is promising in theory.
- Lex
Their only way out is to pull the plug on this and start over.
I still like my plan for that.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.26 22:43:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lexander Morinex Edited by: Lexander Morinex on 26/08/2009 22:40:17
Originally by: Kalrand
Their only way out is to pull the plug on this and start over.
I still like my plan for that.
The saddest part of this whole thing is that what EBANK has done is what mutual funds in really bad shape have been known to do. It is a sign of insolvency.
It also basically says 'You have no say in this, it isn't really your ISK anymore'. What always made EBANK a 'bank' instead of an 'IPO' was really the ability to pull ISK out quickly. What Ray is doing is basically converting EBANK into the structure of an IPO and promising a payout in the end.
- Lex
You mean hedge funds, but yea. He can do pretty much whatever he wants with your money right now.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.27 01:17:00 -
[14]
Originally by: cosmoray
If there ever was an elite, 80%+ have all been ionvolved with SCAMS or business failures in the last few months. Any who were ever on original EBANK board are now pretty much dead on here.
Death to the MD elite, time for the little man!!!!!
Whats hilarious to me is now its the three Goons that hang out in here that are about the only serious market people that haven't run off with truck loads of their investors' isk recently.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.27 04:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jin Nib
Originally by: Kalrand
Whats hilarious to me is now its the three Goons that hang out in here that are about the only serious market people that haven't run off with truck loads of their investors' isk recently.
Take your time...
My investors got paid. And I even warned of Ebank. Here's where. MD didn't fund me, the goons did.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.27 04:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Rotnac
Originally by: Kalrand Whats hilarious to me is now its the three Goons that hang out in here that are about the only serious market people that haven't run off with truck loads of their investors' isk recently.
Somehow, when we Goons are arguably the most trustworthy around, something terribly, terribly wrong has happened.
PS, I'm not one of the three referenced above (I assume).
Don't worry, you're not.
corsetwo and sophie diagneau first, then me second.
(spelling?)
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.27 13:57:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Dzil
Yes Kal, but paying back corpmates or alliance mates is different from paying back investors who's only relationship with you is their trust and investment. Not paying back your alliance mates could cost you your place in a major alliance. Not paying back some guy in MD would likely be seen by your peer group as laughable.
With audits, you could prove that money was borrowed, isk was generated, and money was paid back. It proves you have the capabilities to generate isk. But it brings you no closer to being trustworthy in the eyes of the regular here.
To be fair, that may not be such a bad thing. More and more, we see the trust laid out here betrayed because there's no real repricussions for defaulting a loan. I'm beginning to feel more and more only 0.0 territory holding alliances can underwrite a loan without collateral, where a creditor can extract a real consequence should financial obligations not be met.
I really don't think that without an in game mechanic to dissolve an alliance for an unpaid loan, that alliances will ever be able to borrow unsecured funds from anyone other than members and allies. If Goonswarm defaulted on a loan, are you going to hire mercs to take over Delve? Didn't think so...
What a 0.0 alliance has, that Highsec lacks, is an entity that polices its members. An alliance can kick you out and pod you. An alliance can blow up your towers. An alliance can lock you out of the stations your stuff is in. An alliance can throw out a member corp that ****es it off enough.
But who would police an alliance? No one. Which is just like individuals in empire.
What that means, is that yea, it is different between corp and alliance mates. But don't think for a second that I personally knew even half of the people who loaned me isk. It's more than just an esprit de corps kind of thing, that's a reflection of the safety inherent in the transaction. Remember, Goons are playing a different game than the rest of you guys.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.27 13:58:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Dzil
Quote:
Assuming you have the financial means to hire a merc corp, or military force within your corp / alliance to extract said 'consequence', and yes of course lets not forget they have to be willing to go and fight to get back at the individuals who pulled a fast one on you. What about the individual investor who is not inside of a large 0.0 alliance, or doesn't go to 0.0 period, how would this benefit them at all?
If you don't have the financial means to go after your loans, you are loaning out too much money.
It means you loaned money to someone you didn't have any recourse with.
I would think the record for 100% collateralized loans in High Sec must be pretty good.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.27 14:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ji Sama
Originally by: Kalrand Goons are playing a different game than the rest of you guys.
true, its called world of warcraft. but what does that have to do with anything.
I think if anything, the empire, high sec, mine rocks for hours on end or trade in jita for 0.01 isk game is much more like WOW than the 0.0 everyone wants to kill you, hey lets blow their stuff up for no reason game.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.27 19:26:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Xetal Maelstrom What reason does anyone have to repay their loan to a bank that kidnapped/stole everyone's money, lacks the game mechanics to do anything about a loan default, and lacks the funds to pay someone to go after someone who defaulted on a loan?
Call me a pessimist, but I just can't see a lot of people with outstanding EBANK loans lining up to pay them back... especially those loans with low/no collateral.
Along this line of thinking, what corp with a high-collateral loan is going to pay it back?
They could be out as much as they borrowed (loan repaymened, but lost collateral to the Ebank blackhole).
It's probably worth going over historical offerings and looking to see who was using Ebank as either a collateral-holder or a place to store funds.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.27 20:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Saehta
Originally by: Dzil
Those with collateral: well, there's incentive. Those with no collateral represent the majority of the problem, they didn't get paid back.
Is there incentive? Or did the collateral disappear with the trillions of isk
Ding Ding Ding
I think most people are going to constructively default on their loans, and possibly pay the difference between the collateral sale and the outstanding amount.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.27 22:15:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Kalrand on 27/08/2009 22:15:43
Originally by: Cearain
Of course, if ebank won't give them back the full collateral there is no moral obligation to repay.
Someone should start testing this.
Edit: added below
Was there ever a full accounting of the collateral after Ricdic flew off into the night?
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.28 03:06:00 -
[23]
Make the bank software open source.
So then I can open a Goonbank without having to do much but manage loans and assets....
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.28 07:13:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: testirania So you let the BOD take out money while the costumers, whom they were supposed to work for arent allowed to get theirs ? Isnt this "friends taking care of friends" ? And if the BOD all were commited to making this work out, then shouldnt they have proven so by leaving their ISK in the bank instead of this insider trading kind of action ?
This seems more and more to be a case of the BOD taking care of themself first instead of the customers as YOU! have put forth that is your interest.
Possibly.
When the liquidity crisis became apparent several staff and directors deposited ISK into their sweep account to help us out. I allowed them to withdraw that ISK; some did, others didn't.
So all the other people who deposited isk in the last week or two, who won't get their money back are less important to you than the ****ups who caused this mess?
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.28 13:59:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Maybe because EvE does not need "proper" banks. So the issue is here, but it's artificial and due to players bringing in RL mentality in a game. Maybe what's needed in EvE is another kind of institutions that are yet to be discovered.
Remember that the foundations of EvE's "market" has been laid down by Hexxx, a RL bank consultant. He brought an RL implementation in a game.
Maybe we need to break and go beyond those foundations and find out what works in *this* world. *IF* there's something that works in this world.
Selene is trying. Apparently lotteries work well in EvE, poker works well. A new concept of bank could also work well and where a generation of bank is dying, others are coming up (I also refer to Ulecese's effort).
What looks quite sure and established is that nothing is set in stone nor sure nor people shouldn't risk what they can't afford to lose.
Maybe future banks (if the game will even need them) could finally build upon the Laws Of EvE and not monkeying the RL laws.
Eve's sandbox for the economy is much closer to that of the 19th century than that of the 21st. You should look at what institutions flourished in that era.
Lotteries, banks, stock markets, bonds, and loans were all common place.
As were scams, bank runs, pump and dump schemes, debt repudiation, and a complete lack of enforcement.
Prior to the SEC, the gold standard for a public corporation was to have a "Morgan Man" on the board of directors, one of J. P. Morgan's employess, since they were considered to always carry the weight of J.P Morgan himself.
Common people were hard pressed to get loans and insurance, and that's why loan sharking and benevolent associations flourished.
I could go on and on, but what we have here are people trying to apply modern financial theory to a game where there are no enforcement mechanisms that are part of the inherent structure of modern finance.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.28 15:18:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
Eve's sandbox for the economy is much closer to that of the 19th century than that of the 21st. You should look at what institutions flourished in that era.
I looked, else I would not have created a previous post about creating exactly the institutions that made 19th century finance into 20th century (money fund, FDIC alike institution etc).
What moved us into the modern era was direct government regulation. This is something that ccp is not going to provide.
Volunteer systems did exist in the 19th century. Notably some stock exchanges had reporting standards for the stocks and bonds that traded there. Lloyds of London had a system of interlocking guarantees between the different names and syndicates operating under its umbrella.
They were hardly universal.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.28 19:08:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jerni
No, you're not. Read Ray's posts following the one you quoted.
Please also note that Ray is not allowing people who put money in after the BoD members did to take it out.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.09.08 22:44:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Solisk
Originally by: cosmoray
Originally by: SetrakDark There is 485b worth of assets that could be liquidated (or are already liquid) and 325b in outstanding loans or other ventures. Add the fact that mass liquidation would lower asset value and you have a < 485b for any "super" recovery fund, whatever form that takes.
The fact is that EBANK have stated they want to return the money in a year. To do that they need to earn 9.5% across their ENTIRE asset base EVERY month and then COMPOUND it.
Their best efforts are only returning 5-7% (Titan and loans will not return more).
Liquidating seems to return 40% now. 100% in 1 year is a joke
It can't be done in 1 year. There I said it.
Not even if they really, really believe?
In a year, many characters with isk currently in accounts will have retired from eve.
Don't forget that's hidden wealth they'll be unlocking.
And as a bonus, they'll be able to cite it as evidence of the continued trust in the community for continuing to stay with them after they allow withdrawals.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.09.14 16:54:00 -
[29]
At this point I've come to the conclusion that you're all just getting trolled.
They have you're money, and will keep the site open, so you can see your balances, mostly just to laugh at you.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.15 01:44:00 -
[30]
Oh god. this thread should be left to die.
let the man start a new one.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.23 13:42:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Claire Voyant 1) Discovery of America brought huge supplies of gold to Europe and caused the relative value of gold to decline, prices of everything else went up, thus inflation.
Silver, but otherwise correct on your points.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.25 19:12:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Black Dronza Hi EBank officials.
Rather than read through a 32 page post please can you give an update on the recovery plan. How is it going against forecast?
Many thanks -bd-
They wont tell you this, but they stole all your isk. You get nothing, sir.
Good day.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.26 13:47:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Tesal
Originally by: Kalrand
They wont tell you this, but they stole all your isk. You get nothing, sir.
Good day.
With help from Goons. You forgot that part.
All things shall be revealed in good time.
Don't get me wrong, The Mittani has his fingers in a lot of people's business, but this one was all done by the ebank staff alone.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.02 20:44:00 -
[34]
Dear Ebank customers,
We're busy making a few nice spreadsheets that show the current pile of isk that is left after the last few board members ran off with whatever they could grab.
Instead of giving it back to you, we plan on giving you continuously updated reports on what we spend your money on over the next few months. We may give you some back in a year or two, but don't hold your breath.
All the best, Ebank
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.06 14:47:00 -
[35]
Originally by: FlameWarrior Edited by: FlameWarrior on 06/11/2009 14:10:37 hey man this is not even funny!! i m a lottery guy! n people that joined n played know i m a legit !! n it's the yearly lottery so i need to pay off my pervious one in order to run another one !! so please eve bank get in contact with me asap so i can get this sort out
Your lottery could now be for your ebank claim.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.06 15:48:00 -
[36]
Originally by: FlameWarrior wht u mean by ebank claim ?? i just need to get the 1.3bill so i can get it going, as they freezed my 1.3bil in there =(
They took your money. It isn't coming back. But "someone" is "working" on a way to let you "trade" your ebank isk. Right now it looks like people are willing to pay about 20% of the face. Or 260 Million in your case.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:09:00 -
[37]
Originally by: cosmoray
Just sit back and wait for the announcement. I would rather see a post with ALL the facts than a half hearted stab that keeps a few people happy.
I doubt your going to get anything with all the facts here.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.09 20:00:00 -
[38]
Originally by: FlameWarrior ray u r offline !! how can i contact u
FlameWarrior, if you have collateral to take out a loan, there are several places you can do so.
Your billion+ isk is gone sir.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.10 15:05:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Kalrand on 10/11/2009 15:05:42
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Leneerra Then how much of their listed account value would they lose? 30% or 100%?
100%.
In that case they would be collateralize 20% of their loan, with 100% of their balance, but you would only let them use up to 30% of their balance in this manner, correct?
Originally by: FlameWarrior hmmm i m not selling my account , n second i m waiting to get the loan asap plz! due to the inefficient and ineffectiveness of eve bank, i have stopped my lottery. I am now needed the isk to pay out my previous lottery!
You really ought to just give up.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.10 17:02:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Julian Koll
Originally by: cosmoray EBANK are offering to release 20% of account balance via a loan mechanism.
My offer is to purchase entire accounts at 20% of value (no loan required), and for those that saw 30% that was from Proton Power and has been withdrawn.
People will have to decide whether they want out or not.
note: Once I see EBANK's updated report I reserve the right to change that offer UP or DOWN. 20% is on the table NOW, it may not be for long.
which imho is a really good offer. the day ebank announced account freeze i toyed with the same thought, even put up an ad in sell orders, but took it down due to my own risk assesment. atm i personally wouldnt offer more than 5%, but maybe you have more trust in them than i do.
Mine was 5.4%. And that was entirely driven by my required IRR of transactions, my cost of funds, and my estimated length of time to recovery.
I didn't even bother with trying to estimate the probability that the funds don't get paid back.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.10 17:50:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Kalrand In that case they would be collateralize 20% of their loan, with 100% of their balance, but you would only let them use up to 30% of their balance in this manner, correct?
Yes. It's not meant to be an attractive opportunity, or a method to liquidate your investment. It's simply a means whereby account holders can gain some sort of use out of their capital without selling our liquidating their account.
Curious, what kind of rates are available on new loans, assuming they are ~110% collateralized and in the single digit billions isk range.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.10 18:10:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Tiberizzle
Quote: I am now needed the isk to pay out my previous lottery!
I'm too lazy to read the previous pages, but can you clarify how the **** you are operating a lottery in such a manner that you need a loan to pay it out?
He put all the lotto ticket money in ebank. Right before the doors closed.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.16 23:01:00 -
[43]
board of directors:
"we stole all of your money!" "announcement to come!"
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 15:13:00 -
[44]
So any word on when the next deadline for THE BIG ANNOUNCEMENT is?
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:53:00 -
[45]
The big announcement!
Your isk was stolen. It is here for you to see!
Ray is trolling you. Read between the lines.
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