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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.08.30 20:43:00 -
[1]
Question:
Account holders have no say in the running of the bank because putting mony in ebank is not investing, it is just like putting mney in a bank. So accounts are not a risk bearing entity (except for scamming of course) When Ricdic stole it was stated he stole ebank isk not accountholder isk. Board members are personally responsible for the situation as it stands now Accounts are frozen Intrest on intrest bearing accounts is suspendend But reservations on salaries and management fees are still made but will be suspended untill such time as the bank is once more solvable.
This is unfair and these statements are in my opinion in contradiction. I could accept reservations for saleries to non board member employees. But a reservation for the suspended intrest should be made as wel and it should be payed to account holders before further (mis?)management fees should be awarded to the people in charge.
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.10 16:09:00 -
[2]
I think Solisk puts it much more reasonable than I am willing to.
I do not think that the account freeze and the setting intrest to 0 for a year is in any form accepteble. Sure freezing it to resolve it is needed, otherwise not all depositors are dealt with equally.
But even if you manage to get me my current deposit back in a year then you still scam me for 1.8B (I previously accussed ebank of stealing, which was wrong I should have said they are scamming me and all other account holders. Sorry for that insult.)
Of course what ever deficit ebank has now was unintended. Nobody planned to scam with ebank from the onset. But what you plan to do now, by holding whatever remains of my isk hostage for a year while simultaniously changing the terms of the agreement is an outright planned scam.
Give us reasonable options now!
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.13 06:59:00 -
[3]
Since I cannot withdraw and no other options are availeble.
Are there people out there that have a loan with ebank that they wish to refinance or repay? I have up to 4.4Bil Ebank isk availeble for any such transaction.
I also might be able to offer better conditions that ebank is offering. I am currenty only intrested in people that have kept to the agreements they made.
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.14 16:53:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: leona starfire For people who still have loans outstanding with e-bank I am willing with my main Nightjester to transfer up to 10B isk to your account once i have received 80% of the value of your loan in assets. You can then repay e-bank get back your assets from e-bank and instantly save yourself 20%. I will then allow you to pay back your loan with no interest over the following 12 months.
Originally by: Leneerra Are there people out there that have a loan with ebank that they wish to refinance or repay? I have up to 4.4Bil Ebank isk availeble for any such transaction.
Anyone caught doing this will have their loan defaulted, and all accounts belonging to the parties involved will be zeroed.
The bank is in recovery mode and the board is working hard to restore it to full liquidity, if you want to play silly buggers and try and circumvent the situation by abusing the system then we will treat you with the same level of respect.
Get of your freaking high horse Ray. You say you wish the market to take care of liquidating accounts but your employees scoff at the opportunities that exist and insult those who even try to get an offer together. You provide absolutely no security in when, nor on how much we can get out of our account, thus completely destroying whatever value is leftnull in them. You joke and make fun of the little securities you did offer in the past. You state quite clearly there will be no liquidation. And when someone actually manages to finds a marketable option to liquidate their isk you threaten them. So I can either wait (indefenetely?) for my isk to be returned, or wait for some kind of ebank approved option to sell MY ebank isk to some ebank approved party?
A bank needs trust. Without it, it will not work. You are quite effectively destroying whatever tiny piece of trust remained. Without trust in the opportunity to withdraw isk there is no isk. Without a time limit on your recovery plans my ebank isk are worthless. Calculating 3% a month my balance is worth only 3.1b at this time. Make it 2 years and it is worth only 2.2B at this time. And who even knows if they will be playing eve in 2 years time. And frankly, ebank is not an investment that warrants such a low %. Perhaps 5% is more realistic, making my deposit (assuming a likely withdrawal option in 1 year) worth only 2.4B.
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.14 17:05:00 -
[5]
but, if they post defaulters then theyd have to add theirt own names, as they ceased paying intrest on the isk we loaned them.
tricky path for them
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.14 19:35:00 -
[6]
Ray,
You have stated you wanted to have the market take care of liquidating the ebank customers that wish it
What steps are you planning to take to make that statement a reality? What timeframe are we looking at for such steps to be taken? What guarantees will ebank claim to provide to set a fair market value for current depossits? (things like timeframe until isk release, guaranteed conversion percetage for conversion of ebank isk into ccp isk. Which need to be set to allow any trade value over cosmoray's current 20% offering) Will eBank affiliates be forbidden from entering the trade in eBank isk?
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.16 16:24:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Leneerra on 16/09/2009 16:33:28 Would love to talk there. Furthermore I would be very pleasently surprised if the discussion turns out to be constructive.
Edit: Let me start being constructive. I admit you would have had very little other options (if any) other than freezing accounts, working out how much you have exactly. And then working out a strategy to give everyone as close to what they deserve. I also understand hard choices would have to be made and that all this is done in your free time.
However I do currently disagree with the resulting time span for such a resolution and very much so with some of the choices made already, as well as in the way some things have been/are being communicated.
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.17 20:51:00 -
[8]
I agree no comitee decisions on braking. But you do not have to keep al passengers starving and locked inside while you are waiting for replacement parts to be shipped in from the other side of the world either.
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.17 21:07:00 -
[9]
if you get out of the train you will have to arrange transport to the busses or next station as well.
And where do you get the opinion there is no loss on ebank accounts right now? In about a week I will have lost rougly 130m already. This is of course assuming I will ever get my ebank isk converted to ccp isk again at a 100% rate wich seems unlikely at this time.
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.20 09:09:00 -
[10]
I think the title renaming is ust a different tactick to have this tread drop from page 1..
on questions: Can you explain to me how setting intrest on saving accounts to 0 is not losing me isk?
and : Can you explain me why lost isk from no intrest is different from losing isk on liquidating accounts?
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.20 12:06:00 -
[11]
While I partially agree I would like to see an answer from eBank themselves.
Some of their representatives have stated they cannot liquidate because that would mean the accountholders lose so much of their isk (roughly 60% at this time as far as my information goes). But they completely ignore the iskloss they are causing by keeping our isk locked up for an indetrminate period of time. I want them to acknowledge that no mater what they do they will cause me and every other accountholder to take a loss.
After repeatedly stating there was no possibility to get our isk liquidated they claimed to have the support of their accountholders because nobody had formally reqeusted them to liquidate their account. Of course this argument was easey put to rest by putting in just such a request in their ticked system, and since then such claims have not been made.
I know I will make a loss when I liquidate my account. I think it is the duty of the ebank board to tell me how much I would lose, what alternatives they CAN offer me and every other accountholder out there and allow us to decide what we want to do with whatever remains of OUR isk.
I do not accept their straw man argument that it would cost account holders isk and therefore liquidation is not an option. Whatever solution is picked it will cost accountholders isk and I think they should acknowledge that fact and allow us to chose what we think is best for us rather than being force fed their idealist choice.
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.20 13:56:00 -
[12]
I am not intrested in hearing that it is not simple.
I want to know what I am allowed to do with my ebank isk. I want to hear what options are availeble to me. I want to know how much your failure has cost me.
I am not intrested in ebanks future development other than as an option I can CHOOSE to participate in or NOT.
If liquidating now means I will only get say 10% just tell me and let me make my own decicions about my own isk Tell me what options you can provide.
The schedule for information you have presented thus far means I will personally have lost between 200M and 300M without me having any say in the matter.
All you are saying is we failed you, now hang in there and suck it up till we tell you how bad it is going to be. I have had it with your reassurences. I want options.
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.20 14:56:00 -
[13]
So you are scamming me for anything between 200M and 300M (1 to 2 months worth of intrest) before you will even tell me what options I will have to lose isk on this whole thing?
I will repeat as often that that this is not accepteble. of course I can do little else than post about it.
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.20 17:01:00 -
[14]
So you will cease claiming it is in my best intrest that you do this?
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.21 18:17:00 -
[15]
Orexis,
I will be very open to you.
I care nothing for your isk. I care very little for your opinion on me.
If they decide to close down ebank and scam us all for whatever remains just because I (and perhaps some others) could not keep their trap shut then they would surely show themselves to be far far less than I currently value their individual integrity.
Over the past 2 years eBank has managed to lose money as a whole. If I judge them by past performance then there will be less isk, not more, to divide by the time they have made up their mind on what options they do allow me to free whatever remains of MY isk.
If you have so much trust in them do you offer me 60% of my account value today? Pay me 60% after an ebank employee confirms my balance and we arrange the transfer, I will even accept and ebank employee to provide third party service in this. (That 40% loss is roughly the same as the interest payments I lose on the account in their projected 1 year freeze) Haggle on the price or shut you own face.
Ebank has made sure they are effectively untouchable in game. I cannot wardec them effectively (or pay a merc to do so), I cannot threaten them in game. I cannot force them in any way. They lost my isk and state they will have me wait for an indeterminate amount of time while they decide what options they think are acceptable for MY isk.
They made sure all I could do about it is whine about it. So that is what I do until they provide options. They have proven they are incapable of deciding about my isk (and perhaps I have as well, having handed my isk over to them). But at least if they say I can forget about my isk I will know where I stand and whom I should trust in the future.
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.22 16:05:00 -
[16]
AC155,
I hope you understand when I say I consider your humor currently too expensive for my taste.
But it really clarifies the situation if all I can do is whine and all you can do is make jokes about it.
I will dig deep in my personal reserves of humor and try not to take your remark too serious.
Mjolnirsmith,
Sorry to name you in one post with someone telling me not to trust him until October the 15th at least (should I take his answer seriously). But you do seem to follow my thinking on this matter. I would be appalled should people such as AC155, Ray MCCormack, Athre, LaVistaVista and whomever else I may still trust on that board drop their names in the gutter for all to see over a few posts and a measly account value of 4.4B isk before losses
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.23 05:41:00 -
[17]
AC155,
I guess you misunderstood me. The gutter I was referring to would be tied to the hypotatical situation where you (ebank) would zero my account because of me complaining abut the lousy way you treat me and your other customers.
Thank you for clarefying who is on the ebank board, I must admit I have not kept myself totaly abrest with all the (unpublished) changes since Ricdic's departure. However I was merely referring to some of the names that I connect to ebank that I still consider to have personal integrety (Nobody was ommited from that list on purpose). My blamelist for integrety is still limited to 1 person (please list defaulters (and add underperforming managers etc) as promised so we can start flinging mud in their direction as wel). And while Ray's directness is in a way refreshing, as a whole I would consider ebank a near total failure on customer relations, timely publication of importand issues, internal oversight, as well as the presentation of new features, to be released soon, for over a year. And of course they have so far failed on managing my isk. In all not a shining example.
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.27 21:54:00 -
[18]
I am surprised by the anger that is directed at fellow accountholders that just try to get their isk back (even ebank proclaims the isk they hold hostage belongs to the account holders).
People that are trying to get creative in getting their own isk back arent keeping your isk hostage. I would be very pleased if an offer to liquidate at 40% was availeble (or 35 or even 30%). With such an offer availeble I and every other accountholder would suddenly be able to choose and effectively they would be in control of their own isk again.
I understand many feel a need to pacify those people that hold your isk hostage in some vain hope to get at last something back from what you entrusted to ebank. But try to keep in mind who is actually harmimng you. I nor anyone else that is complaining has taken a single isk from you.
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.28 08:32:00 -
[19]
Dzil,
I see it differently. I do not begrudge anyone getting their isk out of ebank any way they manage. Even if it means my ebank isk become worth even less. You can be very sure I will take any such option if availeble to me (all within the spirit of eve). As you describe it we should envy or be angry at the people that got 100% out just (weeks, days, hours) before the freeze was published.
I only hold ebank responsible for my losses, and may finetune this to the indeviduals that caused it and/or those that were originally responsible for preventing just this. should ebank ever publishes information that allows me to do so (wich I do not expect).
The ebank BoD have made quite clear that they, and they alone, run ebank. We only got the agreed percentage on our deposits, no extra's should the bank do well. Which is logical as we were not investors. And now that well though of institution they called ebank has has finally published they managed to lose so much isk from the deposits made that they can only cover roughy 40% of our current account values. We never signed on for that risk, we never got compensated for that risk. untill the very day they published the managed to lose 60% of the isk in their accounts they assured us verything was well.
Whatever was intended upon the creation of ebank, effectively it became an elaborate ponzi scheme with us left holding the bag. Us being te current account holders and the current ebank BoD, except they may someday actually get compensated for their effort provided they make ebank healty again.
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.11.09 19:21:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Leneerra on 09/11/2009 19:21:44
Originally by: Ji Sama
All we can do is being patient, i am personally looking forward to buying up cheap EBANK isk :D
So how much are you offering?
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.11.09 23:00:00 -
[21]
Ray,
If someone was to excercize the option to use at most 30% of their listed account value to function as 20% of the collateral of a new loan (80% colateralized trough other means), and that loan is defaulted on. Then how much of their listed account value would they lose? 30% or 100%?
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.11.10 00:25:00 -
[22]
Not realy intrested in defaulting, but I am intrested in discovering (or getting them to admit) how ebank values our accountholdings at this time.
And things do not add up otherwise, if only 30% of the account would be lost in a default, then why the 30% limit for collaterals, the 80/20 division should cover it already.
Also, someone mentioned a possible purchase offer at 30% for ebank isk, care to point me in that direction?
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Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.11.10 06:51:00 -
[23]
Ray,
Seeing that asking for deadlines or dates is pretty useless, and following this thread is mostly for entertainment value only...
So I think the coolest feature you could implement at ebank would be: Mailing accountholders when their assets are once more availeble for withdrawal. Or perhaps a mailing list we can subscribe to for significan upodates (should they occur)
Will you implement these feature? that way I will be able to ignore ebank and still be certain to get some of my isk back once it finally becomes availeble. I'd still be able to visit these treads for entertainment, but at least there would be less hope (very hard to eradicate, but I am impressed with your progress in this) and less frustration to go with it.
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