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PvP: Hurricane vs Drake vs Harbinger vs Sleipnir vs Absolution

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Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2009.08.27 12:34:00 - [61] Edited by: Sader Rykane on 27/08/2009 12:36:22 My last 1v1 with a drake ended with me getting killed by a pilgrim . Dunno how that drake was fit, but with this setup... [Harbinger, PvP] Medium Armor Repairer II Adaptive Nano Plating II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Warp Disruptor II Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I [empty rig slot] Warrior II x5 Warrior II x5 The drake could barely touch me past 20km, and was going down when his pilgrim buddy showed up. So I don't really see how a HAM drake is really going to hurt a harb that much when I can dictate range. Sig Gallery is currently down: Contact me ingame for prices.
Taradis Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.08.27 12:36:00 - [62] Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Originally by: Taradis Edited by: Taradis on 27/08/2009 07:39:17 Originally by: Ap0ll0n Well, maybe so.. But atleast im not relying on EFT stats.. I just luv EFT warriors. They will argue tooth and nail on fits that get posted by people who do not use EFT on a regular basis. Example: Non eft user- My Abbs is fit like this: And it works becuz I have experiance with it and i'm not relying on some app. Hi- 5 tachyon modulated energy beams and a cruise launcher med- 4x cap recharger 2's low- Lg Tech 2 repper, 2x Tech 2 eanm, Tech 2 heat sink and mission rat specific harders Drones- Tech 2 hob's EFT Warrior- lol you can't possibly be cap stable with that fit. Here try this <enter EFT babble with officer mods and other crap that you can't possibly afford without going broke here> or this <use megapulses laser 2's or best named and insert argument here because the person does not agree with your fits> The point is if it works for you than awesome but it may not work for someone else tho. EFT Warriors need to get a real job. See me personally I hate absolutley hate using megapulse's on mission's unless it's against angels since they orbit close. And yes I am bitter towards EFT warriors always wanting to argue about fits, just post and shut it, no need to argue about fits that happen to work for someone else. The world does not revolve around you it revolves around downtime and hamster's . EDIT: Ibis of doom pwns all So what you are really saying is that you do not understand EFT? And you think that all fits built in EFT is fail, because they are built in EFT? lol EFT is a great tool, if you know how to use it proper. Many do not know how to use EFT, and they do not understand the stats beyond ehp and dps. But once you do actually know what makes a fit tick, and you have some real expereince with flying ships in PVP you can more or less deduce how good a fit will work. Its not hard. Insisting on only using 1 fit becuase it has worked before is silly. And rejecting advice given on how to improve it is pure folly. I actually have it installed but I don't use it tho. If I have an idea for a crazy fit i go to the test server beacuz i perfer real combat stats as opposed to EFT
Cpt Branko Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.08.27 12:47:00 - [63] Originally by: Sader Rykane The drake could barely touch me past 20km, and was going down when his pilgrim buddy showed up. So I don't really see how a HAM drake is really going to hurt a harb that much when I can dictate range. Heat MWD & web & scram (if applicable), catch it. It's not so difficult to pull of although he might lose some time (and therefore, EHP) doing so. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Cpt Branko Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.08.27 12:51:00 - [64] Originally by: Vrabac I like how some people think a BC can keep another BC at 16-20 km reliably. Let me guess, because it has bigger number in EFT next to the max velocity letters? All the ships in the topic are good and quite well ballanced. Been flying all of them extensively except for sleip. Some are better for one thing, some for another. But yeah generally a ham drake will win a 1vs1, which doesn't ofc mean it will always win. Corpmate of mine killed a proper rigged ham drake in unrigged 800mm plate/HPL prophecy. Stuff happens. Also being able to win in 1vs1 doesn't make the ship better. Drake is a very good all around ship, but so are harb and hurri. Not sure what a mid-sized gang in OP means, but for 2-5 people I'd prefer the hurricane somehow. All that scorch is uber hype aside, hurricane rocks in such environment. For bigger gangs, harb would probably be better. Drake is quite good in both cases. Solo it's quite even. Since solo doesn't mean 1vs1-ing other buffered BCs but fighting possibly active tanked hacs or orbiting turreted BS or being shot at by torps or running into ships with very high kinetic resists, drake's advantage in pure 1vs1 against a hurricane or harbinger isn't as pronounced and I'd say they are all about equally good. The truth. Imo, the Tier 2 BCs are the best balanced class in game. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.08.27 13:07:00 - [65] Originally by: Sader Rykane The drake could barely touch me past 20km, and was going down when his pilgrim buddy showed up. So I don't really see how a HAM drake is really going to hurt a harb that much when I can dictate range. Your speed advantage is just 100 m/s. And the Drake is obviously more agile. Also, Jav hits to ~28 km just fine... and more if you're having to chase the Drake.
Ottersmacker FireTech In Tea We Trust	Posted - 2009.08.27 14:06:00 - [66] if you look at the hurricane from behind it's a bit like an angry face
slightly sillydude	Posted - 2009.08.27 15:11:00 - [67] Originally by: Ap0ll0n Is this a troll? Ok, lets just pretend this would even fit, which it does not even with implants, your ehp against EM is 69k. Against kinetic, the harb will have around 40k (about 50k with 1 kinetic rig), but will do more than 200 dps more than the drake. Tbh, it seems it is YOU who have no idea what you are talking about. oh my god. Yes, it fits with a 3% cpu implant. I use it all the time. Did you not see the part where it pasive tanks 200? There goes the harby advantage. So its just 40k ehp vs 70k. Plus, its really not unreasonable for a PvP drake to have an EM hardener in place of the second invuln.
Cpt Branko Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.08.27 15:14:00 - [68] Originally by: slightly sillydude Originally by: Ap0ll0n Is this a troll? Ok, lets just pretend this would even fit, which it does not even with implants, your ehp against EM is 69k. Against kinetic, the harb will have around 40k (about 50k with 1 kinetic rig), but will do more than 200 dps more than the drake. Tbh, it seems it is YOU who have no idea what you are talking about. oh my god. Yes, it fits with a 3% cpu implant. I use it all the time. Did you not see the part where it pasive tanks 200? There goes the harby advantage. So its just 40k ehp vs 70k. Plus, its really not unreasonable for a PvP drake to have an EM hardener in place of the second invuln. You are aware of how passive shield tanking works, I hope? You don't tank 200 DPS all the time - the tank is close to that on only a relatively small part of your EHP. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2009.08.27 15:25:00 - [69] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/08/2009 12:49:33 Originally by: Sader Rykane The drake could barely touch me past 20km, and was going down when his pilgrim buddy showed up. So I don't really see how a HAM drake is really going to hurt a harb that much when I can dictate range. Heat MWD & web & scram (if applicable), catch it. It's not so difficult to pull of although he might lose some time (and therefore, EHP) doing so. Yea but I can (and did) overheat my MWD, web, and disruptor to keep him at the range I wanted as well. I love Thermodynamics, seriously. Sig Gallery is currently down: Contact me ingame for prices.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2009.08.27 15:27:00 - [70] Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Sader Rykane The drake could barely touch me past 20km, and was going down when his pilgrim buddy showed up. So I don't really see how a HAM drake is really going to hurt a harb that much when I can dictate range. Your speed advantage is just 100 m/s. And the Drake is obviously more agile. Also, Jav hits to ~28 km just fine... and more if you're having to chase the Drake. a 100 m/s speed advantage is a lot, which is really why I cant stand tri-marking my ships. About the agility thing? I didn't notice it. If he did, then apparently he didnt put it to very good use. Sig Gallery is currently down: Contact me ingame for prices.
Kismo	Posted - 2009.08.27 15:43:00 - [71] Originally by: Sader Rykane a 100 m/s speed advantage is a lot, which is really why I cant stand tri-marking my ships. About the agility thing? I didn't notice it. If he did, then apparently he didnt put it to very good use. Dunno what to say except that you fought a idiot Drake pilot. There's no reason he shouldn't have been able to get you inside 20km and likely even keep you there. It's not like your web was going 20km to web him that far out, even if you did have it overheated. My guess is that he wanted to stay 15-18km from you so that he could bug out when the Pilgrim arrived. I'm not even sure how you could hope to kill a Drake with a Harby if you're hoping to keep him at 20km+. It's trivially easy to force you into his web range or to force you out of disruptor range (and thus he can warp away). And if you insist on overheating your web + disruptor, it's really easy to make you burn them out. Just not seeing you getting a kill out of this unless the pilot's a total tard. And don't say that you can't get something more agile and 100ms slower out of overheated disruptor range ... I've gotten BC's and BS's out of 18km orbiting Vaga/Ishtar ranges (remember you're going for 21km), even before the speed nerf - and the aggressor had both agility and speed in those situations!
slightly sillydude	Posted - 2009.08.27 16:18:00 - [72] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: slightly sillydude Originally by: Ap0ll0n Is this a troll? Ok, lets just pretend this would even fit, which it does not even with implants, your ehp against EM is 69k. Against kinetic, the harb will have around 40k (about 50k with 1 kinetic rig), but will do more than 200 dps more than the drake. Tbh, it seems it is YOU who have no idea what you are talking about. oh my god. Yes, it fits with a 3% cpu implant. I use it all the time. Did you not see the part where it pasive tanks 200? There goes the harby advantage. So its just 40k ehp vs 70k. Plus, its really not unreasonable for a PvP drake to have an EM hardener in place of the second invuln. You are aware of how passive shield tanking works, I hope? You don't tank 200 DPS all the time - the tank is close to that on only a relatively small part of your EHP. I am
Echo Gemini Minmatar Love My Darkness	Posted - 2009.08.27 16:20:00 - [73] So ... u got 3 battlecruisers and 2 command ship! WHAT TO DO?!?!?!?! I'm so confused ... Well son, buy one each ... see for yourself who's better! After which you can post replies to stupid threads! BTW, the obvious answer, is Sleipnir or Absolution! Cuz they are better, that's why!!!!
Holy Lowlander Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.08.27 16:26:00 - [74] if you try to catch something at a gate you'll need a scrambler. Something with an mwd will still run to the gate without it. (webs only cut off half) _______________ Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2009.08.27 16:34:00 - [75] Edited by: Sader Rykane on 27/08/2009 16:34:16 Originally by: Kismo Originally by: Sader Rykane a 100 m/s speed advantage is a lot, which is really why I cant stand tri-marking my ships. About the agility thing? I didn't notice it. If he did, then apparently he didnt put it to very good use. Dunno what to say except that you fought a idiot Drake pilot. There's no reason he shouldn't have been able to get you inside 20km and likely even keep you there. It's not like your web was going 20km to web him that far out, even if you did have it overheated. My guess is that he wanted to stay 15-18km from you so that he could bug out when the Pilgrim arrived. /shrug, who knows. But keeping him around 20km wasn't very difficult. Quote: I'm not even sure how you could hope to kill a Drake with a Harby if you're hoping to keep him at 20km+. It's trivially easy to force you into his web range or to force you out of disruptor range (and thus he can warp away). And if you insist on overheating your web + disruptor, it's really easy to make you burn them out. Just not seeing you getting a kill out of this unless the pilot's a total tard. Scorch Range is around 20km, what better range for me to fight unless I barreled in and used AN MF (which I had and didnt use). As for the burning out part? Tbh, webs and disruptors last a long time if you dont keep them permanantly overheated. Towards the end of the fight most overheated mods had no more than 30% damage as far as I can remember. Quote: And don't say that you can't get something more agile and 100ms slower out of overheated disruptor range ... I've gotten BC's and BS's out of 18km orbiting Vaga/Ishtar ranges (remember you're going for 21km), even before the speed nerf - and the aggressor had both agility and speed in those situations! Overheated disruptor range is almost 29km, considering I was attempting to stay at 20km that gives me a rather large margin to move back into range if he tries to run, especially since I was manually flying the whole time. Sig Gallery is currently down: Contact me ingame for prices.
Kismo	Posted - 2009.08.27 16:40:00 - [76] Originally by: Sader Rykane Overheated disruptor range is almost 29km, considering I was attempting to stay at 20km that gives me a rather large margin to move back into range if he tries to run, especially since I was manually flying the whole time. I know what you're saying, but I'm saying I've never had much trouble getting away from ships that were both much more agile and much faster than I was. Then again, with such a small difference in speeds, I doubt it would have been terribly hard for him to get you well within the requisite 20km of HAMs to work or even within web range (afterall - he WAS within web range if you were using a web). And you simply won't be outranging his Javs. All I'm trying to say here is that the Drake has the counters for anything you can try to pull... it has roughly the same DPS, alot more EHP, and is about the same speed. While we can both regale each other with stories of having fought dumb pilots, I'm not sure it'll really help and won't prove anything.
Cpt Branko Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.08.27 16:41:00 - [77] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/08/2009 16:42:45 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/08/2009 16:41:45 When it comes to catching and/or running away from someone kiting you, it really boils down to pilot skills of both players, tbh. Much like a flight sim, the idea is to get the other pilot to follow your move and nail him when he's committed to a maneuver he can't stop in time due to agility issues. I would say that without a agility advantage and about 500m/s speed advantage it's not a safe strategy to count on permanently keeping someone between 13-24km. Even then you have to be careful about it. I loved the nano age precisely for the fun matches vs HACs who were much faster then you ;) Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.08.27 17:37:00 - [78] Originally by: Cpt Branko I loved the nano age precisely for the fun matches vs HACs who were much faster then you ;) The adrenaline rush of intercepting a Vaga's orbit in a Drake, getting the web, then holding it just inside 13 km right on the edge as it desperately tried to escape, then looting the wreck and GTFO, all while taking sentry fire...
Cpt Branko Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.08.27 17:50:00 - [79] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/08/2009 17:53:27 Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Cpt Branko I loved the nano age precisely for the fun matches vs HACs who were much faster then you ;) The adrenaline rush of intercepting a Vaga's orbit in a Drake, getting the web, then holding it just inside 13 km right on the edge as it desperately tried to escape, then looting the wreck and GTFO, all while taking sentry fire... So sad to see that gone... those were some of the most exciting fights I've had. I'd take the pre-QR times any time of the day, along with all the broken parts. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
King Hopy Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.08.27 19:17:00 - [80] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/08/2009 16:42:45 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/08/2009 16:41:45 When it comes to catching and/or running away from someone kiting you, it really boils down to pilot skills of both players, tbh. Much like a flight sim, the idea is to get the other pilot to follow your move and nail him when he's committed to a maneuver he can't stop in time due to agility issues. I would say that without a agility advantage and about 500m/s speed advantage it's not a safe strategy to count on permanently keeping someone between 13-24km. Even then you have to be careful about it. I loved the nano age precisely for the fun matches vs HACs who were much faster then you ;) QFT. Hehe, I have killed a hyperion before solo in my hurricane by kiting him. He did engage under sentries but would have died anyway. However a tiny slip on my part and I would have been instant toast.
kessah Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.08.27 19:32:00 - [81] tbh if uve drone skills and battlecruisers to lvl 5 u can fly the myrmidon aswell. imho thats the best ship. Myrmidon > Drake > Hurricane > Harbinger. Ofc this is dependent on how you fit them all.
King Hopy Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.08.27 19:42:00 - [82] IMO the myrmidon is the worst one of them. Just can't seem to be able to figure something to with it that you couldn't do better with some of the other ones.
Trader Jjenna	Posted - 2009.08.27 19:58:00 - [83] Biggest issue I have with the Myrm is that I tend to fly in roaming gangs and prefer a large buffer over active tanking. Active tanking has its uses but generally I find survivability is better with a buffer. As a result, the rep bonus on the Myrm just does not get much use for me. Instead I tend to use plates and small guns up top. I just fitted one actually.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order Cult of War	Posted - 2009.08.27 20:02:00 - [84] God I hate saying this.......... Go with the drake............ Originally by: F'nog Originally by: Stareatthesun No no no ... Polaris is where CCP keeps the death star that will destroy eve when the servers shut down. Thankfully I've got Interceptors trained to V. S
kessah Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.08.27 20:52:00 - [85] Originally by: King Hopy IMO the myrmidon is the worst one of them. Just can't seem to be able to figure something to with it that you couldn't do better with some of the other ones. Like i said, its dependent on how you fit it. Play with eft see whatcha come up with. I just happened to come across a gem of a setup
Forge Trader	Posted - 2009.08.27 22:34:00 - [86] Drake for two reasons: (1) cheaper bang for the buck, which is more important the more often you lose ships; and (2) less to think about during pvp w/passive tank (this for those of us w/lesser pvp experience)
Cpt Branko Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.08.27 23:21:00 - [87] Originally by: Trader Jjenna Biggest issue I have with the Myrm is that I tend to fly in roaming gangs and prefer a large buffer over active tanking. Active tanking has its uses but generally I find survivability is better with a buffer. As a result, the rep bonus on the Myrm just does not get much use for me. Instead I tend to use plates and small guns up top. I just fitted one actually. With much cheaper rigging, the Myrmidon can do literally anything. Forget the rep bonus, it doesn't matter all that much. Lack of imagination is no excuse for discarding such a nice ship. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Cpt Branko Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.08.27 23:24:00 - [88] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/08/2009 23:24:24 Originally by: kessah Originally by: King Hopy IMO the myrmidon is the worst one of them. Just can't seem to be able to figure something to with it that you couldn't do better with some of the other ones. Like i said, its dependent on how you fit it. Play with eft see whatcha come up with. I just happened to come across a gem of a setup I hate fighting Myrmidons, you never know what you get... I need to skill up for the damn T2 Ogres / sentries. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Ap0ll0n Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.08.27 23:35:00 - [89] Originally by: slightly sillydude Originally by: Ap0ll0n Is this a troll? Ok, lets just pretend this would even fit, which it does not even with implants, your ehp against EM is 69k. Against kinetic, the harb will have around 40k (about 50k with 1 kinetic rig), but will do more than 200 dps more than the drake. Tbh, it seems it is YOU who have no idea what you are talking about. oh my god. Yes, it fits with a 3% cpu implant. I use it all the time. Did you not see the part where it pasive tanks 200? There goes the harby advantage. So its just 40k ehp vs 70k. Plus, its really not unreasonable for a PvP drake to have an EM hardener in place of the second invuln. You started out with T2 extenders. You drop 3k ehp by using best named.. And no, it does not passive tank 200 dps.. lol.. It passive tanks 130 EM, for about 3-4secs? Its really not unreasonable for a harb to carry ecm drones..
Kismo	Posted - 2009.08.28 16:06:00 - [90] Originally by: Ap0ll0n You started out with T2 extenders. You drop 3k ehp by using best named.. And no, it does not passive tank 200 dps.. lol.. It passive tanks 130 EM, for about 3-4secs? Its really not unreasonable for a harb to carry ecm drones.. The Drake doesn't require the passive recharge to beat the Harbinger.

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