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Sistar2
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.08.27 06:18:00 -
[1]
An old topic, isn't it? The complaints about how autistic people on mescalin are constantly 0.01 isking your buy or sell orders in the trading hubs. There was this great thread here recently with all sort of tips on how to react to this (but "react" in a defensive sort of way).
I have a much better idea though. Starting today, I am creating a loose "Traders Union" as you might call it. This will be open for anyone interested, who trades a good deal in the hubs, and is not a very nasty person. There will be screening. As for myself, I station trade in the 3 major hubs, and I update my orders 8-10 times a day. Chances are you already think I am a very nasty person, but I am offering to stop that.
The union works miraculously simple: all you have to do is join our common chatroom and agree to not purposefully undercutting your fellow union members. For easy recognition you pick a signature number to include in all your orders.
Don't worry, the idea is absolutely NOT that you start disclosing to anyone where you are seeing good trade deals! There is no pressure for anything like that, all this is is giving you an opportunity to know the persons that you see underbidding you, and sort it out with them immediately. You are not even obliged to always use your signature, it's really up to you. You will find it is a win-win situation.
In conclusion, this might not end ALL bidding wars, but will definitely make power trading easier for those who join.
tl; dr:
hook up Cista2 or Sistar2 in game and start enjoying life more.
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Sistar2
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.08.27 06:52:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Nihn Lemai
What, so we unanimously decide what a certain item should be priced and no one is allowed to sell it for less?
No, not at all, there is no such cooporation implied. The only function of this club is that members that see other members' orders on the market can choose to talk to them about it, instead of starting a price war. The two members can agree to split some orders between them, but it's on a wholly voluntary and individualistic basic.
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Sistar2
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.08.27 07:38:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Emily Spankratchet
Whenever I see somebody using a signature in their orders, I start copying it.
Yes, I've seen that. It doesn't bother people as much as you probably hope 
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Sistar2
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.08.27 08:17:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Sistar2 on 27/08/2009 08:18:38
Originally by: Emily Spankratchet
And in this case, of course, the inability to see who places an order would mean that it did annoy people.
Clever girl, you correctly spotted a weakness that i hoped would not be brought to the thread lol. You could pick up my signature and go all around the market with it. However, it would only annoy us if there was a succesful "us" to begin with. In other words, you can only parasitise on our system if our system yields us good isk. If it does that, then of course there will be parasites, and we will have to counter that.
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Sistar2
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.08.27 08:21:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Kahetha's Syster
Hawing said that though, I just don't see it. I don't see more than like 3 people in the whole of eve agreeing to anything like this.
Your ideas are good, but I have to agree with you that it is difficult to carry out. Which is why in my union there is no attempt to control the market - just trying to make life a little easier for ourselves.
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Sistar2
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.08.27 10:10:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Poreuomai
If someone dumps 100,000 units of widgets on the market then what do you do ? Wait until they have sold all their widgets?
Hey, not sure what you mean here. My opening statement was maybe a little unclear. It's not like we're not going to 0.01 isk the crap out of EVERYBODY ELSE, we will
If that "someone" is one of us then we have the possibility to make some sort of deal, but that's completely up to the two traders involved, there are no rules forced on you.
It's not rocket science really. Already when the first guy joined the room today we realised that we have been competing on certain items even this week. So there's already a positive effect.
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Sistar2
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.08.27 11:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Magnu Stormhawk
some examples of a positive outcome for two competing parties would be more interesting.
It's just starting today - the results will come automatically if the people that join us will be cool with the concept.
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Sistar2
Solar Flames
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Posted - 2009.08.29 07:56:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Casiella Truza
When you see somebody you want to shoot, instead just start a conversation with him, or talk to him in Local. See if you can't find a way to share the system and just shoot at everyone else instead.
Or have I misunderstood the idea here?
You have it dead right. What you are describing is commonly known a "corp". What I am creating is a meta-corp for a group of traders (from different corps), fighting other traders. But the general principle is the same.
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Sistar2
Solar Flames
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Posted - 2009.08.29 08:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: rubico1337
wouldnt a shrewd trader just copy you recognisable number, yet still undercut?
... and once everyone starts defecting, the institution will break down
This was also mentioned earlier. My answer is still the same: in order for anyone to "break down the institution", there first needs to be a succesful institution to break down. If someone is parasitising my signature, I must surely do something right.
This is purely hypothetical, but should it happen, the countermeasure is simply to change signature as often as necessary. The people that are in the group see the updated list of signatures as they log in. If people in the group abuse the system it's a challenge we will have to look into.
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Sistar2
Solar Flames
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Posted - 2009.08.29 12:18:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Sistar2 on 29/08/2009 12:23:43
Originally by: Forge Lag
But no, you are in the same position as everyone else, trading at the same price, given or taken 0,01 ISK.
You are competing with bots, playing on their turf, what do you expect?
I am in the same position as everybody else, but I am better at it than most. One of the reasons is that I have initiative.
Incidentally, if there were bots operating I wouldn't be making the profit I am.
But this is not about me per se, this is about starting something new, a new form of cooperation that I believe is not currently present in the market theatre.
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Sistar2
Solar Flames
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Posted - 2009.08.30 11:48:00 -
[11]
Originally by: rubico1337
...will never work because of ... inability to punish those who take advantage fo the cartel's price fixing
Once again, a slight misunderstanding. The ambition is not to fix market prices on any item. A succes will be simply if we can spend less time updating orders as a result of us not competing on the same orders any more.
And to update, we are now just about 5-6 people that have joined the room. We have seen absolutely no practical effect of us doing this yet, but are having a ball with trade discussions, sharing tips etc. We do know that 2 of us competed on orders just before the union was created, so no doubt we will see benefits in the future.
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Sistar2
Solar Flames
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Posted - 2009.08.30 14:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: rubico1337
by agreeing not to undercut people it is price fixing. pure and simple
Do you even trade on the market? Price fixing involves buying up any orders that go below your own, it's a tough challenge even in the smallest of market sectors. I do it routinely myself on a VERY small scale.
Price fixing is NOT what's on the table here with the creation of this union, but of course it is something that we could experiment with along the way
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Sistar2
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2009.09.08 06:13:00 -
[13]
DECLARATION:
I apologise sincerely for using humour in my thread title, I did not have any idea that doing this would cost such a shock among the community of the MD. It is clear to me now that after seing the title of the thread, few of the members of the forum have been able to read the actual post  wherein it is clearly stated that this initiative will not end all isk wars but make somewhat easier for you if you do participate in 0.01 isking.
So just to reiterate:
A) there is (as of yet) no intention of manipulating market prices to a certain level by using the combined forces of union members. This is not to say that members are not doing it, cause they certainly are every day.
B) There is no illusion of ending ALL 0.01 isk wars, just to cooperate wherever possible.
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Sistar2
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2009.09.08 06:24:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Teras Menac
People who hate .01 bidding wars are people who shouldn't be market trading. You either find ways around it, or you participate but why b*itch?
Dear Teras, like most here, you are looking at this from the wrong end of the stick. I don't hate 0.01 isking, it's what I do for a living and I enjoy my living. The post, if you read it, was adressed to people who hate ME for doing it 
... but more to the point, adressed to those who do it on a daily basis. Just because a method is succesfull doesn't mean you cannot add to that succes. So, rather than b*itch about others, I am the kind of person who takes initiative, which is what I have done here. See the difference?
But hey, thanks for bumping my thread...
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