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Brock
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Posted - 2003.06.23 11:12:00 -
[1]
... or rather, at the moment, probably not. If you catch my drift.
Does anyone else find the large leap between being a hard-as-nails frigate pilot (me!) and a low end Crusier pilot a little wide? I understand the satisfaction to be had from working your ass off to provide the funds to finally buy your 1st cruiser. Its a process I'm happily going through at the moment. My point is, unless Im missing something, it is pretty pointless me taking on any cruiser at the moment in my Tristan and from the other POV I am a really safe bet for any aggressive cruiser pilot that wants to take me on. It feels a little too black and white. Its almost like the cruiser pilots are playing a different game to those still in frigates.
The even and measured increase in powercore, CPU and capacitor needs as you move on up to the more powerful and sophisticated equipment means the modules a cruiser pilot might use are beyond me unless a medium shield, for example, is pretty much the only thing I equip! That's all right and proper but could there not be fairly rare special drops that use tiny cap and/or cpu and allow 'lesser' layers like myself a small window of opportunity against more powerful opponents? An excellent 85% EMP shield? A 'high chance' anti jamming module? A very rare low overhead/ high multiplier projectile weapon? Maybe there is?!
Sure, if you have put the effort in to a better ship, then you deserve to feel a sense of progression and power but wouldn't it make things a LITTLE more interesting for everyone if you couldn't be totally sure you were in the superior position to that lowly frigate pilot?
Just a thought. I may of course take all of this back when I have my Battleship :D
*edit* heh, really should have spell checked before posting...
Edited by: Brock on 23/06/2003 11:14:17
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2003.06.23 11:17:00 -
[2]
Just one comment:
The superior frig equipment you want would be perfect for cruiser pilots, too. Why waste valuable turrets on bad cruiser gear (like Dual 150mm Railguns) if you can put in the 'super' frig one and have some spare CPU/powergrid to equip more vile stuff to hand that silly Tristan pilot his butt? ;)
I am not sure that a frig is always chanceless against a low-end cruiser. If the pilot knows his business, a bad cruiser pilot just hitting the trigger to slug it out might be overcome. And remember: if one frig can't kill a cruiser - bring a friend ;)
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Endyl
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Posted - 2003.06.23 11:18:00 -
[3]
>Just a thought. I may of course take all of
>this back when I have my Battleship :D
You will :p
I was thinking like you when I had only a frigate, but once I worked hard and finally got a cruiser, I told to myself, that it would not make sense see someone with a 500k frigate rivalise toes to toes with a 5-10 mios ship.
If you want strong frigate, buy a cruiser and stick 1 or 2 microwarpdrives :)
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Psychia
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Posted - 2003.06.23 11:19:00 -
[4]
LOL, yeah, and have the shields of a Bantam, lmao :)
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Quantum Matrix
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Posted - 2003.06.23 11:19:00 -
[5]
I don't see the point of frigates being able to take out low end cruisers. I think in a 1 on 1 battle, the cruiser should always win. Maybe 2 or 3 frigates against 1 cruiser should be a fair bet, and if equipped properly it can be.
-QM
What do we want?
Brains!
When do we want them?
Brains! |
Jebac Wolnosc
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Posted - 2003.06.23 11:50:00 -
[6]
Surely a better pilot in a better equipped frigate should be able to take out a crusier? That's like claiming a destroyer couldn't take out a battleship or a sub a carrier.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2003.06.23 11:55:00 -
[7]
Frigates are not meant to take on cruisers solo. Frigates are supposed to take on cruisers in groups, reducing the cost of war. 5 merlins + equipment = 2mil (missiles and all), can take 1 high end cruiser. You will loose some of them, but the over all cost is reduced so there is less risk to loose a lot of cash.
You're not MEANT to take on cruisers with you crappy frigs, even the low-end ones.
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Shivash
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Posted - 2003.06.23 12:01:00 -
[8]
I have to say IMO a solo cruiser vs frigate battle ( cruiser mounted with decent cruiser kit - not frigate turrets ) can actually be very close. Why? Because a circling frigate at around 7K distance is a VERY hard target for a cruiser to hit. As long as the frigate can get to 7K range ( maybe using med shield boosters and lifs ) and start circling the frigate has a chance.
Cruisers are NOT solo creatures. They need support from other cruisers or frigates to be most effective. Go 2v2 on the frigate vs cruiser and the battle will be different as the crusuiers can pickoff the frigate on their partner.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2003.06.23 12:07:00 -
[9]
thats utopia.
any decently equipped cruiser has at least 1 AB (i use 3) or maybe a MWD, so its not easy to catch. plus, 5km or 2km it doesnt really matter, yeah its harder to hit a frig, but not hard enough.
cruisers allwayz pwn solo frigs. solo frigs arent meant to fight anlone with cruisers. frigs are to be used in teamwork.
cruisers do have close combat weapons btw
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XeQtR
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Posted - 2003.06.23 12:20:00 -
[10]
I wouldn't use 3 AB's or one MWD's to battle. The MWD cuts your cap and shields WAY to much IMHO, and I'd much rather use the med slots for various shield hardeners and stuff. (On the other hand I'm hardly experienced in fighting so I might be wrong :))
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XeQtR
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Posted - 2003.06.23 12:21:00 -
[11]
I wouldn't use 3 AB's or one MWD's to battle. The MWD cuts your cap and shields WAY to much IMHO, and I'd much rather use the med slots for various shield hardeners and stuff. (On the other hand I'm hardly experienced in fighting so I might be wrong :))
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2003.06.23 12:26:00 -
[12]
i dont use mwd's either they suck.
AB's are good, and i have plenty of med slots :)
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Argon
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Posted - 2003.06.23 12:46:00 -
[13]
The point on frigates getting close and cricling is one which is often raised in this debate, and i am just curious as to wether drones are going to be any use against such a tactic.
I havent seen Wasps in action yet, and am certainly interested as to what they can do; what would 1 wasp (or other suitably heavy drone) do to a frigate? and what sort of a chance would a frigate have against a Thorax loaded with heavy drones?
If (and as i say, i havent used or seen heavy drones be used in battle) drones can be effective against players in frigates, then is the soloution to massed frigate attacks the use of 'drone carriers' to protect the other cruisers in the fleet?
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Zinke
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Posted - 2003.06.23 13:46:00 -
[14]
How about Kestrel launching 4 cruise missiles at your cruiser.
No need to be close to cruiser either.
Just stay away as much as you can.
Anyway.
Few Kestrels coming out in backgroung could easily beat any ship (perhaps even a battleship).
But then again they couldn't do nothing in head to head with stronger ships.
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Shivash
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Posted - 2003.06.23 14:03:00 -
[15]
"thats utopia.
any decently equipped cruiser has at least 1 AB (i use 3) or maybe a MWD, so its not easy to catch. plus, 5km or 2km it doesnt really matter, yeah its harder to hit a frig, but not hard enough.
cruisers allwayz pwn solo frigs. solo frigs arent meant to fight anlone with cruisers. frigs are to be used in teamwork.
cruisers do have close combat weapons btw"
With the nerf on MWD's any combat cruiser in a solo engagement is either going to have a low shield and cap or be using AB's ( which instantly makes it most likely the frigate is the faster ship - remember a cruiser's base speed is substantially slower than the average combat frigate ). For example a thorax vs tristan engagement sees the base speeds ( assuming the thorax puts two OD's in it's extra low slots ) of the two at 245 and 205. a 40m/s advantage to the tristan.
Whilst the cruiser's do have short range weapons they are generally slow tracking and even with tracking boosters unless your really high level ( 4 or 5 on enough skills ) they are still too slow to track a fast moving nimble frigate.
As an experiment ( all be it with little extra ) in beta I had my freinds rifter circling my vexor. I had hybrid weaponry ( which was in beta essentially the weapon of choice ) and probably hit him 1 in 10 to 15 shots and didn't have to stop firing ( i.e. the damage I was doing was easilly handled by occasional use of shield booster ). Now I am sure improving the skills would improve the number of hits - but I don't think ( 1 on 1) the cruiser would hit a circling frigate enough for it to have to run.
Naturally use of EW stuff can tip the balance but the firgate could, for example, forgo AB's for a pair of anti-targetting devices, so in this example I'm assuming both ships are equipped to fight and deal out and take damage. Rather than filled with EW kit.
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The Wretch
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Posted - 2003.06.23 14:12:00 -
[16]
"How about Kestrel launching 4 cruise missiles at your cruiser."
The Kestrel does not have enough cpu to equip enough H50 launchers to be effecitve with the cruise missles.
You want to do a missle job right you get a caracal with MWDs and do strafing support runs. Funny dropping 5 explosive cruise missles 1500-2000 meters from your targets flying by at 1400% above normal speed when that targets shield is down. Don't really need to worry about the shield negative from MWD since you are going so fast most turrets have a real hard time tracking and suffer large damage penalties as a result. Even better when combined with high agility.
The only benefit of frigs is if you have a large number of players on your side and funds are limited. If the pilot skills/talent are even and the numbers are even on both sides, the group in cruisers will win every time and quickly.
The belief that frigs serve any real purpose end game is a poor mans pipe dream at this point.
You can always contact me in game if you wish to get out of that ghetto frig and into a MoA. We can work you a good deal....
IMO of coarse.
The Wretch
Cyberdyne Systems CEO
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.06.23 14:15:00 -
[17]
I still use an MWD for NPC hunting. If you fight well, and pick the right tools, a lack of cap or shields makes no difference at all.
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Bale
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Posted - 2003.06.23 15:12:00 -
[18]
This thread is pretty funny.
Take a Rifter, equip it with three Dual 150mm Scout Artillery and an assault launcher. Train some decent combat skills. Go kill small cruisers to your heart's content.
Of course, you won't be able to keep them from running, but if they want to stick around, you'll swat them.
Hmm, actually I see quite a few larger cruisers with really horrible loadouts. You could probably kill them too, but they'd have more time to figure out things weren't going well and leave.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.06.23 15:18:00 -
[19]
"frigs are to be used in teamwork."
Amen.
Mai's Idealog |
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