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Veloni
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Posted - 2009.08.28 05:32:00 -
[1]
First of all, my character is fairly new, I do not want an instant way to do it. But I do want to keep training for them in the region of some months, so a Marauder with T2 guns (for example) is out of the question.
Second, I am in a WH corporation, with people doing C1/C2/C3 and even doing C4 anomaly's solo. But none of them fly gallente ships for it.
So I am gallente, and I love them for pvp, and I do not feel like crosstraining. Especially not because of the age of my character.
But I do want a way to be able to do some anomaly's solo. In a way that it is challenging and fun instead of one slow big annoyance.
So I went trough all gallente ships that should be able to do them in terms of ship-type.
My experiences with drones:
-Normal drones are useless.
-Sleepers target them frequently resulting in dps-losses, wich then results in not being able to break some tanks on them or just taking ages
-With their webs being put on a drone, it is assured to die. Basicly having all your drones getting popped one by one over time.
-A tactic would be get up close, get your drones on them, scoop them as soon as they get targeted, but then you have the same dps losses again, but smaller, but the biggest problem is, with sleeper webs on you it is impossible to get in range.
-Sentry's work, but only on battleships. Fitting Omnidirectional tracking links means giving up certain mids such as webs, or giving up some tank because of not being capstable.
Gallente weapon system's.
-Blasters: Even with ships with range-bonus, or Null you cannot get the range you need, and you cannot get in range due to webs
-Railguns: Range is okay now, but without a tracking bonus you will have problems with frigs, or you suffer from low dps wich also forms problems for RR'ers or just being painfully slow.
Then onto the ships.
BC's
-Myrmidon: Drones, and to make matter's worse, not being able to field 5 sentry's. So this one is out.
-Brutix: Sucky tank, won't be able to do c2's without having to warp out every moment, and suffers from blasters/rails.
Hac's
-Ishtar, Drones, altough it can field 5 sentry's and has a good tank, it has the same problems again as other drone ships
-Deimos, this ship is total fail imo for pve. Not even gonna start on it's downsides.
BS'es.
-Domi: Drones + not having the tank (large sig) for c3's
-Mega: Guns + drones + tank problems.
T3
This is where it really annoy's me. All people in the corp do these with t3 cruiser so easily, except the proteus.
In a Drone setup it has the drone issue again + not even a set of sentry's. It's tank is good.
In a blaster setup, you do not have the range, and with a mwd your assuring yourself for a quick death (even with the -sig penalty on mwd bonus)
In a railsetup it has a tracking bonus, it has the range, but it's dps is then so low that you might aswell get a drake.
So my question is, are there any options? Is there a certain ship/setup that I missed that would be able to do it? Or am I basicly doomed to having to crosstrain to amarr/caldari who both have multiple ships who can easily do these things solo?
Oh and if you haven't actually done some harder stuff in WH's with a drone-ship, please keep your 'drones are fine, just babysit them more' comments to yourself and actually go and try it.
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Zila Shadow
Higgs-Dyson
Collegium Amarria
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Posted - 2009.08.28 05:59:00 -
[2]
I don't have much C3 experience and none higher, but I've run C1 and C2 sites a lot. The first few times, I made the mistake of treating the Sleepers like mission rats who occasionally get angry at drones - draw aggro, launch, recover when they get attacked, rinse and repeat. I lost at least a drone per site in C1s and they took forever. Then I tried pulse lasers and a web on a Myrmidon, and my drones almost never got aggro. Same even when I just fit salvagers and tractors in the highs and keep the web.
I don't know exactly what sleeper operational web range is, but they seem to hate being pinged with any sort of non-DPS interference, and webs and nos I've found to be the most actually useful things. So if you can get in range with those before they cut off your engines, that might help. I tried a target painter once on an HM drake with T1 light drones in a C2 radar site on an alt and the drones didn't get dinged up at all, and I'm always reading about how ECM attracts the sleepers like sharks to blood, so those might be other options to draw attention.
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khazak mokl
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Posted - 2009.08.28 06:17:00 -
[3]
We use drones alot on high end site (C5 or C6)and the trick is generating enough threat so the sleepers just target ur ships and not ur drones. We do this by RR each other or using E/warfare or just straight out heavy dps.
Solo fits using drones imo dont work well and I tried doing low end sites solo using drones and they all died screaming horribly. The best solo ship I have ever used is the legion which can solo c1 and c2's easily and c3and c4 if you know what ur doing.
Might not be what u want to hear but solo drone boats are fail imo for sleeper sites
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Conrad Lionhart
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.28 06:33:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: khazak mokl
Might not be what u want to hear but solo drone boats are fail imo for sleeper sites
$@#$@#$%%$, this is what I've planned. So what are solo drone boats good for then? This is what I fear, the ship plan that I invest heavily in, becomes useless.
My Blog: http://www.brugamers.com/index.php?blog=43 |
Space Piggy
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Posted - 2009.08.28 06:36:00 -
[5]
The Hyperion has a 7,5% bonus to armor repair speed and do not rely on drones (gun boat). With T1 guns, it cleans sleepers frigs, cruisers and BC fast enough. The repair bonus helps a lot, especially with two LARs II or (even better) two faction LARs. Need CCC rigs though.
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khazak mokl
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Posted - 2009.08.28 06:45:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Conrad Lionhart
Originally by: khazak mokl
Might not be what u want to hear but solo drone boats are fail imo for sleeper sites
$@#$@#$%%$, this is what I've planned. So what are solo drone boats good for then? This is what I fear, the ship plan that I invest heavily in, becomes useless.
They are still good in non sleeper sites or join up with a few people and dont solo them.
solo drone boats in sleeper sites require alot of micro managing and scooping drones as soon as they have agro which means the sites take alot longer and are not very profitable vs other things.
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Veloni
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Posted - 2009.08.28 06:49:00 -
[7]
Originally by: khazak mokl
We use drones alot on high end site (C5 or C6)and the trick is generating enough threat so the sleepers just target ur ships and not ur drones. We do this by RR each other or using E/warfare or just straight out heavy dps.
Originally by: khazak mokl
We use drones alot on high end site (C5 or C6)and the trick is generating enough threat so the sleepers just target ur ships and not ur drones. We do this by RR each other or using E/warfare or just straight out heavy dps.
It's indeed not the C5/C6 gangs that are the problem, there drones are fine, in all this time I lost maybe 1 drone in total, and the amount of time I have to scoop them in those sites is maybe one time per anomaly max.
My problem is in solo'ing lower Classes. And well it seems like everyone is confirming what I though, crosstrain for something else to do it.
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Cagot
Spelunkers
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Posted - 2009.08.28 07:01:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Cagot on 28/08/2009 07:02:07
I use Gallente to solo the lower-class w-systems, and drones are my main weapon system. You said sentries only work on battleships, but I use them on cruisers as close as 15 km (Garde II) as well as taking out one or two incoming frigates before they get too close. I keep a couple of high slots for medium blasters and web and chase the close frigates.
I use Minmatar heavy and light drones because of their speed. Warrior IIs make quick work of webbing frigates, and if one gets targeted (i.e. shows the least bit of red) I pull it in quickly. I pull them in after each kill rather than siccing them on the next target immediately, to break any locks that other Sleepers are working on.
The heavy drones are for when I get close to a cruiser or BS - that way there's time to get them inside before they're popped.
I normally lose drones only when I'm chatting, getting wife aggro, or debugging while messing with the Sleepers. However, I do typically take some damage on them, sometimes into structure, so after each anomaly/signature I usually need to go fit some remote reppers and repair them.
It certainly helps that I have pretty strong drone skills. I suspect Drone Durability V is one of the more important ones that helps make it work.
My current favorite ships for low w-systems are Ishtar, Dominix and Proteus... the latter because it's cool rather than because it works a lot better for me, and because I'm building them, so figured I should skim one off the top.
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Conrad Lionhart
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.28 07:15:00 -
[9]
Ok good to know drones are not totally useless.
My Blog: http://www.brugamers.com/index.php?blog=43 |
Sun Ra
The Water Margin
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Posted - 2009.08.28 08:24:00 -
[10]
A minimum trained drake can do c2s afk, minmatar ships suffer the same its down to range of our short range guns
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Shootmenot dammit
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Posted - 2009.08.28 09:03:00 -
[11]
I have soloed anomalies in a C3 with a Dominix, only with drones and 0 guns.
Stay put, drop Sentries. You pay attention to the little green crosses. Your drones get targeted, but before the Sleepers display a yellow aggro frame or your overview notices it, your Drones will have taken a couple shots.
Look at your ship and your little green crosses. As soon as one drone gets hit, recall them. If done properly, Sleepers will get back to aggroing you in less than 5 seconds. Almost guaranteed you won't lose a Sentry, ever.
For frigs, either fit small/medium guns, or just drop a set of Lights. Don't use Mediums, some will get killed. And again, check your lights orbiting the Sleeper frigs. As soon as you see a Sleeper laser towards your drones and not your ship, recall them immediately.
Sleepers just require careful drone management, and they're worse than any other weapon system, but it can be done.
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Veloni
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Posted - 2009.08.28 09:19:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Shootmenot dammit
but before the Sleepers display a yellow aggro frame or your overview notices
Yes, I know that, basicly I rightclick, and i'm always prepared to click return to drone bay as soon as one sleeper goes yellow or I see a laser towards a drone or dmg on one.
Problem is, the drone gets webbed, and just gets popped. I do NOT understand how people keep their small/medium drones alive in C3's when it gets multiple webs + enough dmg from 1 volley to pop the drone.
And something else I don't understand is, how do people manage their sentry's to be able to hit a cruiser that orbits at 15km. Do you fit omnidirectional tracking links?
Because as far as I know there isn't a skill that improves drone tracking.
Or is there a large difference between t1 and t2 sentry's in tracking?
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aetherguy881
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.28 10:52:00 -
[13]
I run C1-2's and some 3's with a myrmidon and T2 drones (small/med) as the only gank. I don't have the best tank on it, however it could be better.
If you're only thinking about doing the anomalies; run the Ishtar with sentries and orbit them so you can pull them in as they get primaried.
It's not like WH's were meant to be like missions where you could just drop and go. You need to pay attention, and drones are a great source of extra DPS. Even if you don't use heavies/sentries.
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Always remember this about EVE:
Life is cheap, or 15 bucks a month. |
Celia Therone
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Posted - 2009.08.28 11:04:00 -
[14]
In my experience in radar and magnetometric sites a domi with drones does fine in c2, it's c3 where it struggles.
It's very hard to get a good enough cap-stable tank on the domi and have enough mid-slots for an AB, codebreaker or analyzer and ewar. You have to make some serious sacrifices somewhere.
Some tips that may - or may not- work for you...
Mediums aren't worth carrying. They don't do enough damage, yet are slow enough to be popped easily.
Ogres really chew through frigates (no omni, web or target painter required), even Ogre Is do decently.
Once the sleepers start shooting at your drones they tend to work their way through the group. If you pull your drones in and send out different drones your drones still seem to have aggro. However warping out of the site and back in appears to clear drone aggro from sleepers.
If the sleepers don't have any frigates left then cruisers/battleships can have a hard time killing light scouts. So if your scouts can beat the sleeper tank you can generally kill them eventually. This is one of the few times it can be worth recalling just the targeted drone and sending it back out once the sleepers have switched to a healthy drone.
If you use 'warp to x' to get distance from the sleepers then the frigates fly towards you much more quickly than the cruisers. This means that you can lure the frigates out of remote repair range (55km ish) of the cruisers which makes them much easier to pop.
But, yeah, when one of your drones gets 6 webs on them then you're screwed.
I haven't had much luck with sentries except as a damage sponge, but my sentry skills are weak.
Imho remote armor repairers don't work in combat, your (non sentry) drones just aren't sturdy enough.
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Eraggan Sadarr
Phoenix Tribe
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Posted - 2009.08.28 11:36:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Veloni
Yes, I know that, basicly I rightclick, and i'm always prepared to click return to drone bay as soon as one sleeper goes yellow or I see a laser towards a drone or dmg on one.
You do know that you can set shortcuts for drone engage, orbit and return? makes it quicker.
Eve Market Scanner - Marketlog comparisons |
Guillieme Lohran
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Posted - 2009.08.28 12:23:00 -
[16]
I've just started soloing C3 sites and find the drones are useless hype to be just that, hype. Sure you have to pay more attention to them but they will kill sleepers just like they kill anything else.
My first solo run was in a Brutix with 5 Ham II's. I had to warp out to care for my ship's tank, not because of my drones.
I went back to the same system but a different site with my Domi and the tank held fine. I lost a couple drones because I was getting a little too aggressive and leaving them out too long but that was my mistake. I carried a mix of Bouncers and Gardes and scooped them if they were no longer effective and sent out my warrior II's.
One thing I did notice was that the Sleeper cruisers and larger seemed to orbit just outside falloff for my rails with anti-matter. This put them in good range for my sentries. In some cases it was easier to kill the larger stuff than it was the frigates.
If drones are your primary weapon in K-space then they can be in WH-space as well. You just have to actually manage them rather than loosing them on the enemy and waiting for results.
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Veloni
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Posted - 2009.08.28 12:34:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Guillieme Lohran
My first solo run was in a Brutix with 5 Ham II's. I had to warp out to care for my ship's tank, not because of my drones.
Can you even fit Ham's on a Brutix? Oo
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Guillieme Lohran
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Posted - 2009.08.28 12:49:00 -
[18]
Yes. A full flight a meds or 2 of lights.
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Veloni
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Posted - 2009.08.28 12:50:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Guillieme Lohran
Yes. A full flight a meds or 2 of lights.
Nvm, I thought Ham = Heavy Assault Missile launcher :)
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Zartanic
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Posted - 2009.08.28 16:36:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Zartanic on 28/08/2009 16:44:48
I think CCP has changed the aggro mechanics to be more in line with other games, which is a good thing in my opinion as it take more skill to deal with, and they are testing it on sleepers. The current EVE aggro mechanics are extremely basic and need no skill to deal with.
Anyway I suspect there is an aggro value. This may be is raw cumulative DPS or a function of that and maybe a boost or overide due to EWAR . As with other games the trick is not to pull aggro and ensure the drones only target the sleeper you have already damaged or at least started to attack. I find it works for me but I'm Caldari and do not rely on Drones for a lot of my DPS.
The mechanic is also more complex than that as there seems to be a group aggro mechanism as well. Also I have no clue at which percentage of cumulative damage my drone would 'pull aggro' off me.
All I know is I deal with them the same way I did in WOW (sorry to mention that game) and I can use drones.
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Xerra Yeltrox
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Posted - 2009.08.28 16:53:00 -
[21]
Sentry Ishtar is your Gallente WH boat. (solo C1 and C2 anoms)
- Warp in and sit still.
- Unload drones depending on sleeper range. Scoop drone when attacked.
- 35 to 73 km (max ishtar targeting range for me) use Bouncers T2 (fit 1 onmidirectional tracking link)
- 10 to 35 km use Gardes T2
- < 10 km (frigs) use Hobgoblins T2
Find 1 friend also in Ishtar and RR eachother to solo C3 anoms with ease.
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MechaMouse
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Posted - 2009.08.28 17:37:00 -
[22]
I will echo the recommendation for mimnitar drones. I figured since sleepers don't have shields exp was a good damage type. However the speed has made the most difference.
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Guillieme Lohran
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Posted - 2009.08.28 17:55:00 -
[23]
I saw somewhere that they have a 70/70/70/70 resist so damage type isn't that important. Min drones are fast and have better tracking than Gallente so they do quite well in Sleeper space.
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PastaGuy
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.08.29 00:10:00 -
[24]
Edited by: PastaGuy on 29/08/2009 00:11:55
There is some very good advice provided above with regard to drones and aggro. I have also found that keeping my sentry drones targeted and remote repping them will work. However, the overall dps may in a lvl 3 may overcome your Domi if you are flying solo. With regard to the drones I recommend remote repping them.
Keep all 5 sentries targed and have 1 med/large shield and 1 large armor repper on the Domi. You will need the shield repper too because sometimes the sleepers will hit hard and fast. If the shield was gone from a previous aggro sequence, you are likely to lose that drone during the next aggro sequence. Having the shield healed creates a better buffer on the drone. You want to keep all of those sentry drones completely fresh and healthy.
Then, in your spare time , I recommend traing a Paladin with a Damnation alt. This will work much better!
Pasta Guy |
kEat0n
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Posted - 2009.08.29 06:41:00 -
[25]
Use a hyperion?
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Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2009.08.29 07:16:00 -
[26]
Originally by: kEat0n
Use a hyperion?
Tried a cap stable, dual LAR Hyperion with seven 425s (or were they 350s? Can't remember) and a mag stab in a C3, HATED IT. I got better performance out of my Drake. Maybe I was doing it wrong, but I sold the ship after a few days.
Originally by: "CCP Pann"
Over the last few days, the internet has been under attack
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Zweet Zen
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Posted - 2009.08.30 14:50:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Zweet Zen on 30/08/2009 14:50:58
Well the fact ramains that EVE is a MMO (multi player). Basing all opinions on "solo" game play is both wrong and misleading. We have used Gallente ships with drones with great success in both class 5 and class 4 wormholes. In fact the Domi is the workhorse that our profits are riding all the way to Jita ....
Better results come with better skills,ie T2 sentry drones. After 7 sites last night in a class 4 I lost zero drones.
To OP, find a decent corp who has WH ops in mind and step up to class 4 & 5 and you will find that your prized Gallente ships actually shine in WHs. Dont expect to solo everything the game throws at you and you will go much further in EVE.
Recruitment Manager Taggart Transdimensional |
Fearless M0F0
Coalition Of Nations.
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Posted - 2009.08.30 20:28:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Fearless M0F0 on 30/08/2009 20:30:46
Originally by: Veloni
So I am gallente, and I love them for pvp, and I do not feel like crosstraining. Especially not because of the age of my character.
But I do want a way to be able to do some anomaly's solo. In a way that it is challenging and fun instead of one slow big annoyance.
Well you are screwed if you don't want to cross train. With all the nerfing to gallente in the last 2 years you MUST cross train to be effective on either PVP or sleeper PVE. Also mission rats will get sleeper AI putting the last nail on Gallente's coffin.
I love my domi with t2 sentries but I just went out in a raven with t1 cruise and now I realize why all macro-farmers use it. It just mows over them sleepers.
Stick with Gallente at your own peril. You can still use it if you like being 25% as effective of anybody else and losing all your pvp battles.
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Kassa Daito
Lost Connection
Infused Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.30 23:18:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Kassa Daito on 30/08/2009 23:19:16
Originally by: Fearless M0F0
Stick with Gallente at your own peril. You can still use it if you like being 25% as effective of anybody else and losing all your pvp battles.
Personally, I think the Domi and Myrm are among the better PvP ships. You just need to realize that you're better off fighting outside their optimal or inside their tracking than at your optimal. They can do some massive DPS or be very flexible. If it weren't for the occasional ship using smartbombs then they'd be broken powerful.
Gallente are almost useless in fleet battles tho, as are Caldari DPS ships, but every race has its strengths and weaknesses. Amarr frigates are horrible, Minmatar BSes are difficult to use properly. Etc. |
Kaven Kantrix
Two Brothers Mining Corp.
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.08.31 01:29:00 -
[30]
Someone mentioned using a ECM device to "hold agro" (god, feels like wow). Anyway, my question is this: Jamming almost all other rats is basically useless. Is it actually easier to jam sleepers?
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