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Shield vs Armor tanking on a PVP raven?

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Azural Kane Caldari Galaxinc Securities	Posted - 2009.08.28 19:01:00 - [1] Hi all, Been looking around for info on the best PVP options for a Raven, just came back to the game after about a 2 year break. I used to use active shield Hardening and a shield booster... but I've seen some input that seems to suggest Armor tanking is a better option. Anyone have any input on which route might be better? Thanks for any ideas
Sera Ryskin	Posted - 2009.08.28 19:07:00 - [2] It is not, because armor tanking costs you all of your badly-needed BCUs. Fit a shield buffer tank like this: [Raven, torp] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Target Painter II Target Painter II Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Hammerhead II x5 ========== Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.08.28 19:24:00 - [3] Both are viable, it depends on your gang. E.g.: [Raven, RR armour torp] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 100MN MicroWarpdrive I Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Large 'Arup' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Arup' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Ancillary Current Router I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Valkyrie II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5 Four midslots for tackle, ewar, painters, whatever. Or use Cruise and ECCM for the ECM-suppression role.
Hiroshima Jita	Posted - 2009.08.28 19:40:00 - [4] If you are in an RRBS gang you must armor tank your raven. The enemy fc will primary you hoping that you are shield tanked and will die without help from your friends. Even then you have an inferior armor tank. If you are not in an RRBS gang you should shield tank and do massive dps with your torps. If you can fly a phoon for RRBS your life will be much better. But ravens in small gangs do bad things to people, provided there are targets like bc or other bs it can connect hits with.
Azural Kane Caldari Galaxinc Securities	Posted - 2009.08.28 19:48:00 - [5] A few acronyms I'm not up to speed on, what's the RR, in RRBS?
AstroPhobic Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.08.28 19:50:00 - [6] Originally by: Sera Ryskin It is not, because armor tanking costs you all of your badly-needed BCUs. Fit a shield buffer tank like this: [Raven, torp] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Target Painter II Target Painter II Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Hammerhead II x5 This is the correctÖ setup. The second medium neut fits fine with my skills, and I prefer CN torps.
Kismo	Posted - 2009.08.28 19:58:00 - [7] Originally by: Azural Kane A few acronyms I'm not up to speed on, what's the RR, in RRBS? Remote Rep
Max Tux	Posted - 2009.08.28 20:03:00 - [8] depending on your gang and what your fighting with depends on what you need. I find MWD isn't necessary as we always get zero warpins, and the only time we get BS's out is when we have something big to kill :P Point is very important for low sec - more so than second TP, as if he can run away doesn't make a difference how many TP's you have!
Azural Kane Caldari Galaxinc Securities	Posted - 2009.08.28 20:10:00 - [9] What do you mean by having a "point" instead of a 2nd Target Painter? Not sure on that abbreviation either. There a list of common phrases anywhere?
Footoo Rama Gallente Caldari Illuminati	Posted - 2009.08.28 20:14:00 - [10] Originally by: Azural Kane What do you mean by having a "point" instead of a 2nd Target Painter? Not sure on that abbreviation either. There a list of common phrases anywhere? Point means warp jammed. Ie a warp disruptor or warp scrambler. Basically a single point of jam. ------- "Because the Dominix is the Chuck Norris of Eve!"

Azural Kane Caldari Galaxinc Securities	Posted - 2009.08.29 01:01:00 - [11] Thanks for the advice so far guys, I think I'm going to go with the setup below, do have one question tho, how does the Damage Control II mod stack with the Invuln Field Hardeners? I know the stacking calculator on the EVE Wiki can calculate hardeners but I'm not sure how to add in the Invuln Field. Also, can this setup effectively rat in 0.0 in between PVP or will it get rocked Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Target Painter II Target Painter II Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Hammerhead II x5
Mr Reason	Posted - 2009.08.29 01:06:00 - [12] a DC doesn't 'mix' with other resists stackingwise, so you get the full banana. The thing really is that a Raven isn't very useful in RRBS fleets, partly because of it's crappy armor tank and mostly because it'll do no damage as it (then) lacks damage mods. Apart from that it does meh damage with cruise and meh range with torps. This is ofcourse only the case if you run an actual RRBS gang, id there isn't that level or teamwork going on then it really doesn't matter than much and you're fine going shield tank. Apart from that, just an observation, if you've been gone that long and forgot about the common thignws like abbreviations (and possibly much, much more) I'd stay away from fielding BS's for now and stay in something cheap and cheerful.
NoNah	Posted - 2009.08.29 03:41:00 - [13] Why would you want TP's on the raven rather than any of the gangmates? The Raven would probably be better off with a point and another LSE or a point and an ECCM or.. tons of other great modules, but leaving such an easy task for a Raven seems... a bit excessive. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 417316
Azural Kane Caldari Galaxinc Securities	Posted - 2009.08.29 05:21:00 - [14] Pretty much going to be for solo ventures at the moment until I find a corp, and my friends completely new to the game get in a bit better ships
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice	Posted - 2009.08.29 05:33:00 - [15] Edited by: Artemis Rose on 29/08/2009 05:33:36 Originally by: Mr Reason meh range with torps. Yeah. Only double what Amarr Navy Multifreq L shoots in non Apoc ships. That's crappy range. Wait, don't we all love Amarr for the DPS over range thing? Oh, and Jav Torps go as far as Scorch optimal too. More crappyness. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
Mr Reason	Posted - 2009.08.29 08:38:00 - [16] Originally by: Artemis Rose Edited by: Artemis Rose on 29/08/2009 05:33:36 Originally by: Mr Reason meh range with torps. Yeah. Only double what Amarr Navy Multifreq L shoots in non Apoc ships. That's crappy range. Wait, don't we all love Amarr for the DPS over range thing? Oh, and Jav Torps go as far as Scorch optimal too. More crappyness. Because multifreq is the only ammo that's available for lasers, which can't be changed instantly either. Apart from that, Javelin doesn't affect your speed at ALL, you might think that RRBS gangs are stationary but this is not always the case, being left behind = being out of rep range. ADD to that the fact that, alot of times, if you have to shoot something at some range it's the case that they are moving out of range rapidly. Lets all remember how well torps hit against faster moving ships shall we, or something smaller than a moon? Torps < turrets, granted; some turrets are better than others and missiles aren't all bad, but looking at EFT figures going "TORP M@$#@HER%#$@ING ROCK!!!!!!!oneonetwo" is a bit too simplistic.
Mr Reason	Posted - 2009.08.29 08:51:00 - [17] Originally by: Azural Kane Pretty much going to be for solo ventures at the moment until I find a corp, and my friends completely new to the game get in a bit better ships If you're going to do PVP I would again urge you to stay away from big/expensive/slow ships till you have relearned the game. And even then, solo, I wouldn't fly a BS most of the time anyway.
Lili Lu Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships	Posted - 2009.08.29 13:55:00 - [18] Originally by: Mr Reason Originally by: Azural Kane Pretty much going to be for solo ventures at the moment until I find a corp, and my friends completely new to the game get in a bit better ships If you're going to do PVP I would again urge you to stay away from big/expensive/slow ships till you have relearned the game. And even then, solo, I wouldn't fly a BS most of the time anyway. This, and never pvp in your ratter.
z0de Gallente The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.08.29 15:59:00 - [19] Originally by: Gypsio III Both are viable, it depends on your gang. E.g.: [Raven, RR armour torp] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 100MN MicroWarpdrive I Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Large 'Arup' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Arup' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Ancillary Current Router I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Valkyrie II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5 Four midslots for tackle, ewar, painters, whatever. Or use Cruise and ECCM for the ECM-suppression role. Only 1 plate, you'll be dead before your friends lock you. á á
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2009.08.29 19:18:00 - [20] Originally by: NoNah Why would you want TP's on the raven rather than any of the gangmates? The Raven would probably be better off with a point and another LSE or a point and an ECCM or.. tons of other great modules, but leaving such an easy task for a Raven seems... a bit excessive. Because you will do idiotically lame damage without 2 painters when using torps, particularly rage's. Oh, and screw fitting a point on Cald missile ships with less than 6 mids available (all but the Drake).

Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.08.29 19:35:00 - [21] Edited by: Gypsio III on 29/08/2009 19:39:05 Originally by: z0de Originally by: Gypsio III Both are viable, it depends on your gang. E.g.: Only 1 plate, you'll be dead before your friends lock you. It's got 100k EHP. That's fine. In any case, your friends will already have you locked because you're the obvious primary, being an apparently shield-tanked BS in an armour-tanked gang. Meanwhile, if you're using Rage without knowing why you're using it then you're an idiot, and CN torps will do full damage to all Caldari BS, and to all tier 3 BS of the other races.
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.08.29 19:49:00 - [22] Edited by: fuxinos on 29/08/2009 19:50:00 Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 29/08/2009 19:39:05 Originally by: z0de Originally by: Gypsio III Both are viable, it depends on your gang. E.g.: Only 1 plate, you'll be dead before your friends lock you. It's got 100k EHP. That's fine. In any case, your friends will already have you locked because you're the obvious primary, being an apparently shield-tanked BS in an armour-tanked gang. Meanwhile, if you're using Rage without knowing why you're using it then you're an idiot, and CN torps will do full damage to all Caldari BS, and to all tier 3 BS of the other races. He probably tried to say that 2 plates + 2 eanms = more ehp then 1 plate + 3 eanm and hes right.
Pater Peccavi Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.08.29 19:54:00 - [23] Originally by: fuxinos Edited by: fuxinos on 29/08/2009 19:50:00 Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 29/08/2009 19:39:05 Originally by: z0de Originally by: Gypsio III Both are viable, it depends on your gang. E.g.: Only 1 plate, you'll be dead before your friends lock you. It's got 100k EHP. That's fine. In any case, your friends will already have you locked because you're the obvious primary, being an apparently shield-tanked BS in an armour-tanked gang. Meanwhile, if you're using Rage without knowing why you're using it then you're an idiot, and CN torps will do full damage to all Caldari BS, and to all tier 3 BS of the other races. He probably tried to say that 2 plates + 2 eanms = more ehp then 1 plate + 3 eanm and hes right. But it requires more repping, since the resists are lower. ______ Why has the number of players online dropped from 50k to 25k? BECAUSE OF SWINE FLU
Miriyana Gallente Corp 1 Allstars	Posted - 2009.08.29 20:56:00 - [24] [Raven, All Hail Burn Eden] Medium Armor Repairer II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II Sensor Booster II Remote Sensor Dampener II Remote Sensor Dampener II Remote Sensor Dampener II Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile 500W Infectious Power System Malfunction Improved Cloaking Device II Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I - - - - - - Change just leads to more problems Originally by: CCP Wrangler Oh please no, I've had enough with real world taxes, and dealing with the tax agency. No more taxes!!
Seishi Maru The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2009.08.29 22:06:00 - [25] Originally by: Mr Reason Edited by: Mr Reason on 29/08/2009 09:00:01 Originally by: Artemis Rose Edited by: Artemis Rose on 29/08/2009 05:33:36 Originally by: Mr Reason meh range with torps. Yeah. Only double what Amarr Navy Multifreq L shoots in non Apoc ships. That's crappy range. Wait, don't we all love Amarr for the DPS over range thing? Oh, and Jav Torps go as far as Scorch optimal too. More crappyness. Because multifreq is the only ammo that's available for lasers, which can't be changed instantly either. Also, you don't get the full range (due to flight time lost on launch) and you don't get any falloff, and if the target has some proper transversal speed you lose even more range. Apart from that Javelin affects your speed, you might think that RRBS gangs are stationary but this is not always the case, being left behind = being out of rep range. ADD to that the fact that, alot of times, if you have to shoot something at some range it's the case that they are moving out of range rapidly. Lets all remember how well torps hit against faster moving ships shall we, or something smaller than a moon? Torps < turrets, granted; some turrets are better than others and missiles aren't all bad, but looking at EFT figures going "TORPS M@$#@HER%#$@ING ROCK!!!!!!!oneonetwo" is a bit too simplistic. tne explain why all typhoons that do nto fit 8 guns fit 4 torps.. and not the 4 AC?
Mr Reason	Posted - 2009.08.29 22:24:00 - [26] 1- because it looks good in EFT 2- because it does good damage against big targets, which are in range, which aren't moving a whole lot But I doubt most people realise part 2 and mostly just think about part 1.
NoNah	Posted - 2009.08.29 22:51:00 - [27] Originally by: Soporo Originally by: NoNah Why would you want TP's on the raven rather than any of the gangmates? The Raven would probably be better off with a point and another LSE or a point and an ECCM or.. tons of other great modules, but leaving such an easy task for a Raven seems... a bit excessive. Because you will do idiotically lame damage without 2 painters when using torps, particularly rage's. Oh, and screw fitting a point on Cald missile ships with less than 6 mids available (all but the Drake). So let me get this right: * Can't fit a point, since it got no mids to spare. * Must fit 2 target painters, since it got the mids to spare and need them for extra damge. Is it just me or do those two not quite work? Whatever the engagement, I dare say having a point in gang is more important than being able to double your damage. And more importantly, ignoring range issues for a sec(Torps won't reliably hit anything outside Point range anyway) having the TP on some smaller vessel preferably fitted with sensor boosters will act as the sensor booster you're missing on your ship aswell. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 616939
Seishi Maru The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2009.08.29 23:06:00 - [28] Originally by: Mr Reason 1- because it looks good in EFT 2- because it does good damage against big targets, which are in range, which aren't moving a whole lot But I doubt most people realise part 2 and mostly just think about part 1. You really naive if you think most of typhoon pilots are not able to perceive the qualities of each weaposn system. Do not forget that is the most skill intensive battleship in game. And all that try it, as I do, know from experience that torpedoes are FAR FAR superior to AC. Caldari complainers forget that although missiels have damage reduction, that is in place exaclty to achieve similar effect to what tracking and weapon signature does. Torpedoes have better damage, better range, better damage selection, do not care for ships too close .. are only inferiro to turrets when dealign with smaller ships at a medium range ( for example a cruiser at 15 km.. But if you try to fire at same cruiser at 2 km.. turrets will miss MUCH more damage than torpedoes .. even webbed cruiser.
SheriffFruitfly Caldari	Posted - 2009.08.29 23:38:00 - [29] Shield is obviously better as far as the ship is concerned. Lots of alliances roll with armor rr bs gangs though. So in that context, be most helpful to yourself and your gangmates: go armor. __________________________________________________________ Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Mr Reason	Posted - 2009.08.30 00:51:00 - [30] Originally by: Seishi Maru able to perceive the qualities of each weaposn system. Do not forget that is the most skill intensive battleship in game. Because the amount of SP you have decides how smart, interested and willing you are to learn and think. Lets try this again; It's no use to have an RRBS gang that does good damage and suddenly stops doing damage at 17km, would you switch to T2 you'd get about 27km. Well done, that's a very impressive range that'll really help...



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