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Dapto Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.08.29 12:06:00 - [1] After Discussions in Helpmymission channel the consensus is that you latest nerf has been to eliminate T1 loot from missions but you also said to compensate this you'd increase the salvage recoverable. Well we all agreed salvage is less not more. Since I started playing EVE 18 months ago all I've seen is nerf this nerf that and all it does is reduce the amount of isk you can make per hour. CCP you talk about making EVE like real life where its tough to make money and things dont come easy. Well thats fine but your taking it to the rediculous where you cant make isk very easily at all and grinding missions for 6 months to buy a 1.3 billion isk marauder is not my idea of fun. Now with the T1 loot drop nerf you've played into the hands of the mega 0.0 alliances as Zydrine and Megacyte is only available there and these alliances can ask what ever they like for it in the future. Any one else noticed the increase of megacyte its gone up 1000 isk per unti in the last few months. The thing is the tougher you make it to obtain isk the more people will turn to scamming and corp theft which is a detriment to any game and in the long term will cost you dearly. Have you ever thought the easier it is to make isk the more people would be willing to risk missioning in low sec and being a little more adventurous in thier game play?. Making it extremely hard to obtain will make Hi Sec a horrible place to be in as everyone will live and die there and the carebear screams will put you in the position of no Hi Sec War Dec's or killing anyone or itll hurt your pocket big time. Dapto
Siona Windweaver Placeholder Holdings	Posted - 2009.08.29 12:14:00 - [2] what?
Sir Substance Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp	Posted - 2009.08.29 12:19:00 - [3] bawww, now miners can make some money, while you are only making disgusting amounts per hour, rather then obscene amounts. have a big ****ing cry. go on, let it all out. ------ I, for one, welcome our new console overlords!
Trustworthy Joe	Posted - 2009.08.29 12:21:00 - [4] Originally by: Dapto After Discussions in Helpmymission channel the consensus is that you latest nerf has been to eliminate T1 loot from missions but you also said to compensate this you'd increase the salvage recoverable. Well we all agreed salvage is less not more. Since I started playing EVE 18 months ago all I've seen is nerf this nerf that and all it does is reduce the amount of isk you can make per hour. CCP you talk about making EVE like real life where its tough to make money and things dont come easy. Well thats fine but your taking it to the rediculous where you cant make isk very easily at all and grinding missions for 6 months to buy a 1.3 billion isk marauder is not my idea of fun. Now with the T1 loot drop nerf you've played into the hands of the mega 0.0 alliances as Zydrine and Megacyte is only available there and these alliances can ask what ever they like for it in the future. Any one else noticed the increase of megacyte its gone up 1000 isk per unti in the last few months. The thing is the tougher you make it to obtain isk the more people will turn to scamming and corp theft which is a detriment to any game and in the long term will cost you dearly. Have you ever thought the easier it is to make isk the more people would be willing to risk missioning in low sec and being a little more adventurous in thier game play?. Making it extremely hard to obtain will make Hi Sec a horrible place to be in as everyone will live and die there and the carebear screams will put you in the position of no Hi Sec War Dec's or killing anyone or itll hurt your pocket big time. you know, i WAS gonna have my alt steal everything in your corp hangers. but now ill do that AND pod you. as many times as i can. have fun tomorrow _______________________ Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist want a sig? thats great! post it in response to my posts!
Sir Substance Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp	Posted - 2009.08.29 12:23:00 - [5] Originally by: Trustworthy Joe you know, i WAS gonna have my alt steal everything in your corp hangers. but now ill do that AND pod you. as many times as i can. have fun tomorrow :O surely you jest mr. joe? ------ I, for one, welcome our new console overlords!
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.08.29 12:25:00 - [6] Originally by: Sir Substance Originally by: Trustworthy Joe you know, i WAS gonna have my alt steal everything in your corp hangers. but now ill do that AND pod you. as many times as i can. have fun tomorrow :O surely you jest mr. joe? I wouldn't trust him. Then again, maybe i would. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Kerfira	Posted - 2009.08.29 13:32:00 - [7] Originally by: Dapto After Discussions in Helpmymission channel the consensus is that you latest nerf has been to eliminate T1 loot from missions... Someone has been smoking too much illegal stuff.... There's just as much T1 loot in mission wrecks as there was before the patch (L4's). Not that it SHOULDN'T be removed, but CCP hasn't seen the light yet and actually done so! L4's need ALL basic T1 loot removed, and an increase of about 25% in NPC damage and tanking (on average, some missions more and some less). Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.08.29 13:44:00 - [8] Edited by: Khemul Zula on 29/08/2009 13:45:30 points to sig Although the idea of T1 items actually becoming worth building (rather then harvested) gives me funny feeling down there.
Saartje Sarel	Posted - 2009.08.29 13:49:00 - [9] More like rocks in their shoes.
rofflesausage	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:03:00 - [10] Originally by: Kerfira L4's need ALL basic T1 loot removed, and an increase of about 25% in NPC damage and tanking (on average, some missions more and some less). No they don't.

Lord Windu Amarr Twilight Federation	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:04:00 - [11] Originally by: rofflesausage Originally by: Kerfira L4's need ALL basic T1 loot removed, and an increase of about 25% in NPC damage and tanking (on average, some missions more and some less). No they don't. Agree with Kerfira, no reason to increase mission rat damage and tanks.
Dapto Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:15:00 - [12] Originally by: Trustworthy Joe Originally by: Dapto . you know, i WAS gonna have my alt steal everything in your corp hangers. but now ill do that AND pod you. as many times as i can. have fun tomorrow Good luck with that Joe i'll even give you a hint where to find me BTW we dont keep stuff in corp hangers com to Decon im sure i can arrange a very big welcome Dapto
Doppleganger Minmatar Libera Mentem Tuam	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:43:00 - [13] Originally by: Dapto Since I started playing EVE 18 months ago all I've seen is nerf this nerf that and all it does is reduce the amount of isk you can make per hour. CCP you talk about making EVE like real life where its tough to make money and things dont come easy. Well thats fine but your taking it to the rediculous where you cant make isk very easily at all and grinding missions for 6 months to buy a 1.3 billion isk marauder is not my idea of fun. Isk is so much easier to make fast now then it has been in anytime of this game, so don't give me that crap.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive	Posted - 2009.08.29 15:00:00 - [14] Originally by: Dapto After Discussions in Helpmymission channel the consensus is that you latest nerf has been to eliminate T1 loot from missions but you also said to compensate this you'd increase the salvage recoverable. Well we all agreed salvage is less not more. Since I started playing EVE 18 months ago all I've seen is nerf this nerf that and all it does is reduce the amount of isk you can make per hour. CCP you talk about making EVE like real life where its tough to make money and things dont come easy. Well thats fine but your taking it to the rediculous where you cant make isk very easily at all and grinding missions for 6 months to buy a 1.3 billion isk marauder is not my idea of fun. Now with the T1 loot drop nerf you've played into the hands of the mega 0.0 alliances as Zydrine and Megacyte is only available there and these alliances can ask what ever they like for it in the future. Any one else noticed the increase of megacyte its gone up 1000 isk per unti in the last few months. The thing is the tougher you make it to obtain isk the more people will turn to scamming and corp theft which is a detriment to any game and in the long term will cost you dearly. Have you ever thought the easier it is to make isk the more people would be willing to risk missioning in low sec and being a little more adventurous in thier game play?. Making it extremely hard to obtain will make Hi Sec a horrible place to be in as everyone will live and die there and the carebear screams will put you in the position of no Hi Sec War Dec's or killing anyone or itll hurt your pocket big time. To quote Boxxy. Troll, troooolllll --Vel Jesus loves you. Everyone else thinks you're an asshat.
PLEXie	Posted - 2009.08.29 15:12:00 - [15] What T1 nerf?
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.08.29 16:27:00 - [16] Originally by: Lord Windu Originally by: rofflesausage Originally by: Kerfira L4's need ALL basic T1 loot removed, and an increase of about 25% in NPC damage and tanking (on average, some missions more and some less). No they don't. Agree with Kerfira, no reason to increase mission rat damage and tanks. Yes, in fact there is. Mission damage has not increased to compensate for the effects of rigs, which have greatly increased the defensive capabilities of ships. More difficult missions = better profits for good players, less for AFK multiboxing ISK farmers. Think about it.
Viule Sawyr	Posted - 2009.08.29 16:54:00 - [17] Edited by: Viule Sawyr on 29/08/2009 17:04:17 Originally by: Dapto After Discussions in Helpmymission channel the consensus is that you latest nerf has been to eliminate T1 loot from missions but you also said to compensate this you'd increase the salvage recoverable. Well we all agreed salvage is less not more. Since I started playing EVE 18 months ago all I've seen is nerf this nerf that and all it does is reduce the amount of isk you can make per hour. CCP you talk about making EVE like real life where its tough to make money and things dont come easy. Well thats fine but your taking it to the rediculous where you cant make isk very easily at all and grinding missions for 6 months to buy a 1.3 billion isk marauder is not my idea of fun. Now with the T1 loot drop nerf you've played into the hands of the mega 0.0 alliances as Zydrine and Megacyte is only available there and these alliances can ask what ever they like for it in the future. Any one else noticed the increase of megacyte its gone up 1000 isk per unti in the last few months. The thing is the tougher you make it to obtain isk the more people will turn to scamming and corp theft which is a detriment to any game and in the long term will cost you dearly. Have you ever thought the easier it is to make isk the more people would be willing to risk missioning in low sec and being a little more adventurous in thier game play?. Making it extremely hard to obtain will make Hi Sec a horrible place to be in as everyone will live and die there and the carebear screams will put you in the position of no Hi Sec War Dec's or killing anyone or itll hurt your pocket big time. oh whaaa.. I think everyone except missions runners of course can agree that running LVL4 missions has been quite unbalanced in the pay department compared to "anything" else in eve on the Risk vs Reward. While you could easily make 30 to 50 mil an hour running missions in high sec. Miners on the other had could make about 10 hour with maxed skills. The only place miners could make the same kind of isk per hour as a high sec mission runner is to move to 00 and have a hell of a lot of risk. Not to mention the Miners and industrialist had to compete with mission runners, both on the market selling t1 items and for selling mineral due to the amount of minerals and loot coming from mission runners. I say bravo if it's true, because maybe now mining will pay something worth while rather than being the biggest time waster in eve. Not to mention now the industrialist will be able to make a buck or two selling T1 items. I've done all three, mining, building and missions and by far I could make at the very least double per hour running missions. Meaning quit complaining, because you have no clue how good you have it running missions compared to the others things in eve. Now days I play the market and I blow all that grind crap away..
mcnuggetlol Amarr Via Crucis Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.29 17:02:00 - [18] Originally by: Dapto CCP may have rocks in their heads, but you're a **ing ****.
Nika Dekaia	Posted - 2009.08.29 18:03:00 - [19] Originally by: Kerfira Someone has been smoking too much illegal stuff.... There's just as much T1 loot in mission wrecks as there was before the patch (L4's). Not that it SHOULDN'T be removed, but CCP hasn't seen the light yet and actually done so! L4's need ALL basic T1 loot removed, and an increase of about 25% in NPC damage and tanking (on average, some missions more and some less). I second that.
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2009.08.29 18:07:00 - [20] obligatory 'move all lvl 4 agents to low sec' post

Dickbuttes	Posted - 2009.08.29 18:10:00 - [21] L4s are half the problem and basic T1 loot should be removed. Keep the named stuff but mining NPCs shouldn't exist. I mean sure you could melt down the named loot but you dont get nearly as much and you could just sell it! Then people would have to build basic T1 stuff and minerals would be harder to get. It makes sense. And anyway, why should people be able to get such huge rewards for doing something in complete safety. Why aren't lowsec and 0.0 L4s better then empire L4s??? That space isn't that scary you know
Rhinanna Minmatar Volition Cult The Volition Cult	Posted - 2009.08.29 18:39:00 - [22] Errrr, Solo mining may only make 10mil/hour, you can make a LOT more than that grouped with haulers and an orca. Easy 20+mil/hour. Mining gets better in groups, Missioning gets worse. Not to mention all the lies that go about regarding missioning. 30mil/hour isn't a bad rate, more than most people get. -The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it. Drenzul (My normal internet tag)
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2009.08.29 18:44:00 - [23] Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: Sir Substance Originally by: Trustworthy Joe you know, i WAS gonna have my alt steal everything in your corp hangers. but now ill do that AND pod you. as many times as i can. have fun tomorrow :O surely you jest mr. joe? I wouldn't trust him. Then again, maybe i would. He looks pretty Trustworthy to me.
Tellenta Gallente Invicta. Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.08.29 18:54:00 - [24] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Lord Windu Originally by: rofflesausage Originally by: Kerfira L4's need ALL basic T1 loot removed, and an increase of about 25% in NPC damage and tanking (on average, some missions more and some less). No they don't. Agree with Kerfira, no reason to increase mission rat damage and tanks. Yes, in fact there is. Mission damage has not increased to compensate for the effects of rigs, which have greatly increased the defensive capabilities of ships. More difficult missions = better profits for good players, less for AFK multiboxing ISK farmers. Think about it. If they compensate the rats damage for the introduction of rigs, could they please compensate the rats ewar effects so that they are just as nerfed as everyone elses? It's making my arazu and lachesis look bad when a thorax in a mission has better sensor dampeners
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2009.08.29 18:58:00 - [25] Everytime I see the thread title I got a voice in my head going: "Yeah well, you've got socks in your pants!" And given there's no actual T1 loot drop nerf, you seem to be thinking with them too. Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Viule Sawyr	Posted - 2009.08.29 19:15:00 - [26] Originally by: Rhinanna Errrr, Solo mining may only make 10mil/hour, you can make a LOT more than that grouped with haulers and an orca. Easy 20+mil/hour. Mining gets better in groups, Missioning gets worse. Not to mention all the lies that go about regarding missioning. 30mil/hour isn't a bad rate, more than most people get. umm you are missing the point.. "1" LVL4 mission runner can make easily 30 mil and hour and on the high 50 mil. Using a Orca, pluss 2 Hulks you are still lucky to hit 35 to 40 mil and hour mining in high sec. I know because I ran a Orca, 2 hulks and a retriever. That's running 4 freaking accounts and I couldn't make what one account could make as a LVL4 mission runner once I gave up mining and went to running missions. Add to this with the minerals and salvage I made a killing off what I built up with the new small/med rigs. I probably made 300 mil easy the first week the new rigs came out from the salvage I saved up from missions.
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2009.08.29 19:51:00 - [27] Myth: LvL 4 missioning makes 30 mil an hour Fact: High-Sce lvl 4s make between 10 and 20 mil an hour. 0.0 lvl 4s between 15 and 30 mil. Myth: LvL 4 missioning is risk free. Fact: Many people lose ships in LvL 4 missions. Myth: 0.0 is dangerous and due to risk vs reward must pay much isk. Fact: 0.0 is probably safest place to be when in a space holding alliance during peace. /me gets popcorn
Luba Love	Posted - 2009.08.29 20:13:00 - [28] Hai OP! You and your friends are far from alone in your opinions and criticism of how CCP generally relate to game balancing and implementation of game mechanics. One could easily be fooled thinking otherwise but as you prolly already know, it s just the same one handful of drum banging forum trolls trying to wreck another party.
Saint Lazarus Spiorad ag fanaiocht	Posted - 2009.08.29 20:18:00 - [29] Lets all put our minds together and try to kill the OP with sheer force of hate lvl 4's have been ridiculously profitable for far too long, why bother ever leaving high sec when you make as much there as ratting in 0.0 with NO risk. as Spock would say That **s illogical dudes -----------------** My EvE Comic
Dapto Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.08.30 03:26:00 - [30] Well like most of you people out there I've an alt on another account too. Its a mining/industrial/manufacturing alt with 5 mil sp's in industry and 11mil sp's in science. I agree with everyone that mining sux the biggest in isk earning per hour and T2 invention is just arrrgh but thats another story. So I do have an idea in the difference in isk per hour for all the professions. The point I am trying to make is more to the case that if CCP nerfs everything in regards to making any isk then players will become even more cautious in their game play. Never leave Hi Sec (which is pretty much the case now) but if it was easier to make and believe me it was easier to make over a year ago when i was a noob running lvl4's in a fleet, people would go and try their luck in low sec or randomly roam in null sec. The way itÆs heading the only way to small gang PVP is Hi Sec war dec's but as some of you are aware if youÆve undertaken this endeavor the targets fights for a week and then dock up till we stop the war dec. Why because after they lose many ships often the target just doesnÆt have the resources to continue the fight. There ôfrom my carebear sourcesö has been a huge increase in Hi Sec war decs recently but for them whats the point in fighting as they donÆt have the skill to match Hi Sec war decÆn Corps/Alliances and even if they try they often lose big time and the will to fight goes right out the door. So they dock up for a week and hope it goes away not my idea of fun nor is it the targets. So what IÆm saying is CCP donÆt nerf everything make it easier to make isk all round and finally you might get the sort of game where people will fight, will be adventurous will start new Alliances and try and take on the big 0.0 alliances. With the way itÆs going anyone want a raven only 170mil isk? T2 fitted only 350 mil, rigs optional (100mil) how many of you would risk this in a 5 minute fight ? Dapto

IceAero Amarr Shadow Company THE KLINGONS	Posted - 2009.08.30 03:32:00 - [31] Edited by: IceAero on 30/08/2009 03:34:18 spits up coffee on computer screen HOLD THE **** ON HERE GUYS people only make lots of isk in 0.0 now? I guess our job here is done? ;(
Ukucia Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.08.30 04:00:00 - [32] Originally by: Dapto Now with the T1 loot drop nerf you've played into the hands of the mega 0.0 alliances as Zydrine and Megacyte is only available there and these alliances can ask what ever they like for it in the future. I'd just like to interrupt our little flame fest to point out that this isn't true. Zydrine is present in Hedbergite, Hemorphite and Jaspet, which aren't 0.0 ores. In addition, WHs and exploration sites provide lots of interesting rocks. But please, continue with your "CCP is giving BJs to all the big alliances" trolling. I'm sure it'll be entertaining.
Junko Togawa Caldari	Posted - 2009.08.30 06:07:00 - [33] I AGREE, NERF NINJASALVAGERS! Err, I mean...UNDO THE SCANNER NERF! No wait, that's not right...REMOVE LOCAL? Ohhh, I remember! NERF L4's! (BTW, careful with that whine, it's old, I plan to have it with cheez one day)
Kerfira	Posted - 2009.08.30 09:23:00 - [34] Originally by: Soulita Myth: LvL 4 missioning makes 30 mil an hour Fact: High-Sce lvl 4s make between 10 and 20 mil an hour. 0.0 lvl 4s between 15 and 30 mil. Your 'fact': BUSTED! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2009.08.30 09:29:00 - [35] Edited by: Schalac on 30/08/2009 09:32:47 Wait...So are you telling me that I no longer have to check every can to see if a nice named item dropped from the mob I just killed? AND I get more salvage from the wrecks? Sounds like a win win for running missions. EDIT: Oh yeah I know of a nice little 0.4 system that has lots and lots of jaspet ready to be mined if you want. Just tell the IDLE watchdogs that you will smolder them in their melted ships if they mess with you. Hell they are hardly online there anyway. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN
Kerfira	Posted - 2009.08.30 09:31:00 - [36] Originally by: Dapto With the way itÆs going anyone want a raven only 170mil isk? T2 fitted only 350 mil, rigs optional (100mil) how many of you would risk this in a 5 minute fight ? This would actually not be all that bad..... Currently, a large portion of the different ships in EVE are not used! For game variety, it would be much better if T1 cruisers were once again used in combat, and people using battleships were running a big risk doing so. Today, the battleships is the standard, simply because they're so cheap. You get no credit for showing up in one.... I think it would be much better if the whole ship range of EVE was used. Then people who did show up in expensive ships would get credit for doing so. You are also wrong on how prices will go. If there is less ISK in circulation, prices will go DOWN! This is basic economics.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Nova Satar UK1 Zero KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.08.30 09:55:00 - [37] Originally by: Sir Substance bawww, now miners can make some money, while you are only making disgusting amounts per hour, rather then obscene amounts. have a big **ing cry. go on, let it all out. ^this wtf do carebears care about isk for anyway? all they do is * it, and if they ever spend it, it's only on more ways to *** isk
Karentaki Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.08.30 11:16:00 - [38] Just came in here to say the op fails at basic logic. Missions have needed a nerf for a long time, and I'm delighted if they finally got it. Quote: EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
Sharp Feather Gallente POS Builder Inc. Silent Requiem	Posted - 2009.08.30 11:19:00 - [39] Originally by: Dapto you cant make isk very easily at all aha...hehee...AHAHAHA, MHAAAAHAHHAHAHA...ho...ho...hehe. LOGIC & MORE LOGIC
wallenbergaren	Posted - 2009.08.30 11:36:00 - [40] Edited by: wallenbergaren on 30/08/2009 11:36:50 Originally by: Rhinanna Errrr, Solo mining may only make 10mil/hour, you can make a LOT more than that grouped with haulers and an orca. Easy 20+mil/hour. Mining gets better in groups, Missioning gets worse. Not to mention all the lies that go about regarding missioning. 30mil/hour isn't a bad rate, more than most people get. Or not With a perfect setup you mine close to 2300 m3 / min. That's 138000 m3 / hour. If you're mining veld in highsec that's about 12 mil isk (16 with the old high trit price). You need at least two accounts for that though so you need to mine at least 25 hours per month just to pay for the 2nd account, and with such high yields you go through belts pretty fast. Then you need a hauler too, and fight over belts etc... mining sucks, there's no way around it



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