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Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:17:00 - [1] I am confused about somthing, I understand the loss report and that they lost the following: 1. ~250b û Ricdic Theft. 2. ~380b û Loan Defaults 3. >48b û Share Losses 4. ~466b û Interest Paid 5. ~75b û Salaries But what about the isk gained over time? EBANK made isk, so is it really 1.2tril in debt? If so that means the above is inaccurate, there is a lot more isk missing, matter of fact that means every profit EBANK ever made is missing plus the above. Examples of incoming Isk - TXD Profits Component BPO Profits Advertising on there Forums Profits Loans Profits Investment Profits Ricdic Profits Those things above made EBANK isk, so how is it your 1.2tril isk short again?
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:18:00 - [2] Oh yea and copying I think 5 Titan BPO's for amlost a year profits as well. This alone should cover a good portion of the isk lost.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:22:00 - [3] Do you really need to crosspost?
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:22:00 - [4] So Alf, if im getting this right, you want to start a discussion about ebank, and you want your own thread to do it in, also... There are no profits in ponzies you know that.
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:23:00 - [5] My Theory, this is not based on facts just somthing I made up in my head. I dont believe EBANK is in the trouble it claims. I think they are trying to do a few things, and this will help them do them all. They have wanted to shrink in size for some time now, by doing this, it will help. They are ticked at Seleene for making up his own bank, by doing this, they hope that it will impact investors into his bank. I just dont' see how they are short such large isk sums when I know EBANK was making profits. I understand the large hits, but even if you read Hexxx and Athre previous posts, they claimed that even after the loan default they were still in the Green, and after Ric's scam it barley put them in the red. So a month later they are 1trillion isk in the red?
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:26:00 - [6] Originally by: Proton Power My Theory, this is not based on facts just somthing I made up in my head. I dont believe EBANK is in the trouble it claims. I think they are trying to do a few things, and this will help them do them all. They have wanted to shrink in size for some time now, by doing this, it will help. They are ticked at Seleene for making up his own bank, by doing this, they hope that it will impact investors into his bank. I just dont' see how they are short such large isk sums when I know EBANK was making profits. I understand the large hits, but even if you read Hexxx and Athre previous posts, they claimed that even after the loan default they were still in the Green, and after Ric's scam it barley put them in the red. So a month later they are 1trillion isk in the red? EBANK should start selling tinfoil hats. Maybe that would help with the deficit there is.
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:27:00 - [7] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Proton Power My Theory, this is not based on facts just somthing I made up in my head. I dont believe EBANK is in the trouble it claims. I think they are trying to do a few things, and this will help them do them all. They have wanted to shrink in size for some time now, by doing this, it will help. They are ticked at Seleene for making up his own bank, by doing this, they hope that it will impact investors into his bank. I just dont' see how they are short such large isk sums when I know EBANK was making profits. I understand the large hits, but even if you read Hexxx and Athre previous posts, they claimed that even after the loan default they were still in the Green, and after Ric's scam it barley put them in the red. So a month later they are 1trillion isk in the red? EBANK should start selling tinfoil hats. Maybe that would help with the deficit there is. Then were else is all the isk? Funny you guys have all these sarcastic answers but what about the answers people want to know when your holding what 2 trillion isk up?
Trustworthy Joe	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:28:00 - [8] Originally by: Proton Power My Theory, this is not based on facts just somthing I made up in my head. I dont believe EBANK is in the trouble it claims. I think they are trying to do a few things, and this will help them do them all.... ...*They are ticked at Seleene for making up his own bank, by doing this, they hope that it will impact investors into his bank.... that is a ridiculous theory. what your saying is ebank goes and shoots itself in the foot and tries to take everyone else with it. if anything, this just gives support to ECR and selene if he can keep a tighter ship than ebank did. _______________________ Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist want a sig? thats great! post it in response to my posts!
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:29:00 - [9] Originally by: Trustworthy Joe Originally by: Proton Power My Theory, this is not based on facts just somthing I made up in my head. I dont believe EBANK is in the trouble it claims. I think they are trying to do a few things, and this will help them do them all.... ...*They are ticked at Seleene for making up his own bank, by doing this, they hope that it will impact investors into his bank.... that is a ridiculous theory. what your saying is ebank goes and shoots itself in the foot and tries to take everyone else with it. if anything, this just gives support to ECR and selene if he can keep a tighter ship than ebank did. Possibly, but were else did all the isk go?
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:29:00 - [10] Yes Alf, i totally agree its a giant conspiracy against the central reserve bank.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:29:00 - [11] Originally by: Proton Power Then were else is all the isk? Funny you guys have all these sarcastic answers but what about the answers people want to know when your holding what 2 trillion isk up? I wanna know where all the ISK has gone too. Did Ricdic hold more ISK and assets than we knew about? Was there a large loss that was unreported? I wish that we knew. But we don't know at this point. We want to know where all the ISK went just as much as you do.
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:30:00 - [12] Originally by: Ji Sama Yes Alf, i totally agree its a giant conspiracy against the central reserve bank. I knew I could count on your support.
Trustworthy Joe	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:31:00 - [13] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Proton Power Then were else is all the isk? Funny you guys have all these sarcastic answers but what about the answers people want to know when your holding what 2 trillion isk up? I wanna know where all the ISK has gone too. Did Ricdic hold more ISK and assets than we knew about? Was there a large loss that was unreported? I wish that we knew. But we don't know at this point. We want to know where all the ISK went just as much as you do. /me uses telepathy to read wallet logs... -400b "love the mittani" -400b "love istvaan" _______________________ Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist want a sig? thats great! post it in response to my posts!
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:31:00 - [14] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Proton Power Then were else is all the isk? Funny you guys have all these sarcastic answers but what about the answers people want to know when your holding what 2 trillion isk up? I wanna know where all the ISK has gone too. Did Ricdic hold more ISK and assets than we knew about? Was there a large loss that was unreported? I wish that we knew. But we don't know at this point. We want to know where all the ISK went just as much as you do. Okay I can work with this answer, but then your loss report is still incorrect. It needs to show that every profit Ebank has ever made is also missing.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:32:00 - [15] Originally by: Trustworthy Joe -400b "love the mittani" -400b "love istvaan" If only that, then we could at least explain WTF happened
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:34:00 - [16] the plan is to crash the secondary market, and then buy up all the shares at pennies by the dollar.!
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:35:00 - [17] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Trustworthy Joe -400b "love the mittani" -400b "love istvaan" If only that, then we could at least explain WTF happened LV does Ebank know or even have any idea how much profit was made over time. Advertising Should be easy to figure out - Loans should be easy add up interest on all paid loans - Titans should be fairly easy - Say 70bil from me, I know its more but just low side - And what ever other area's you can come up with. I am just trying to understand how much isk is really gone.
Block Ukx Forge Laboratories	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:40:00 - [18] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Proton Power Then were else is all the isk? Funny you guys have all these sarcastic answers but what about the answers people want to know when your holding what 2 trillion isk up? I wanna know where all the ISK has gone too. Did Ricdic hold more ISK and assets than we knew about? Was there a large loss that was unreported? I wish that we knew. But we don't know at this point. We want to know where all the ISK went just as much as you do. Do you still believe that it was proper to continue expanding the bank when the most basic auditing policies were not in place? How can you claim ISK was secure when you donÆt know where the money went? BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:42:00 - [19] Originally by: Block Ukx Do you still believe that it was proper to continue expanding the bank when the most basic auditing policies were not in place? How can you claim ISK was secure when you donÆt know where the money went? You are confusing me for a director.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:46:00 - [20] Originally by: Block Ukx Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Proton Power Then were else is all the isk? Funny you guys have all these sarcastic answers but what about the answers people want to know when your holding what 2 trillion isk up? I wanna know where all the ISK has gone too. Did Ricdic hold more ISK and assets than we knew about? Was there a large loss that was unreported? I wish that we knew. But we don't know at this point. We want to know where all the ISK went just as much as you do. Do you still believe that it was proper to continue expanding the bank when the most basic auditing policies were not in place? How can you claim ISK was secure when you donÆt know where the money went? It wasn't his decision. As Chairman of the Board and a voting Director for the last two years I can talk about this. We had auditing in place, but the rigor of auditing surrounding "ventures" was always a challenge. We thought that things were alright, but it was always hard to get a precise number. It was believed though that we weren't horribly off base. It's easy to say now "What were you thinking" but at the time we were thinking things were ok. There were some bad decisions made....some misjudgements. As a leading voice of the Directorship for the past 2 years I take full responsibility for this. It is one of the reasons I resigned from the Board. EBANK - Advisor \| www.eve-bank.net
Jinx Barker Caldari GFB Scientific	Posted - 2009.08.29 15:12:00 - [21] The question makes perfect sense to me, and I understand a thread purpose as well. His other post will be lost in 10,000 other posts of mindless dribble. It does make sense to ask: 1) "You, (meaning ebank) are 1.2T (give or take a few hundred bill) in the hole." 2) "What happened to the profits?" In other words, If I ran a business, and I wound up with 500 Million ISK in debt, but I made 700 million over time... where is the 200 Million? (Oversimplified, I know, but just trying to look at basics). At some point ebank was valued at way more than 1.2T ISK, so where is the ISK? Does this mean that ebank indeed one giant Ponzi scheme? Does it mean that some information is not availabel to the general public, yet... I hope? Does it mean that the theft is still going on, or even worse, once internal people realized that ebank was insolvent they all started ripping at the carcass and taking what they could from the dead buffalo? I would say there is more to the story, with all due respect to Hexx and Ray, and whoever the hell else... There is a lot going on which they are not saying, and perhaps someone, one of them, should do a big write-up and explain all these discrepancies. At the moment all I see on the forums is "We do not know" "It is not our fault" "Not sure who did what" - nice...
Karanth Gallente Independent Fleet Dark Taboo	Posted - 2009.08.29 15:18:00 - [22] Originally by: Trustworthy Joe /me uses telepathy to read wallet logs... -400b "the mittani sends his regards" -400b "love istvaan" Fixed. Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Sorry, no. You have to go into wormholes and get farmed by the new AI NPCs like everyone else...
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.29 15:38:00 - [23] Edited by: Proton Power on 29/08/2009 15:39:59 Originally by: Jinx Barker The question makes perfect sense to me, and I understand a thread purpose as well. His other post will be lost in 10,000 other posts of mindless dribble. It does make sense to ask: 1) "You, (meaning ebank) are 1.2T (give or take a few hundred bill) in the hole." 2) "What happened to the profits?" In other words, If I ran a business, and I wound up with 500 Million ISK in debt, but I made 700 million over time... where is the 200 Million? (Oversimplified, I know, but just trying to look at basics). At some point ebank was valued at way more than 1.2T ISK, so where is the ISK? Does this mean that ebank indeed one giant Ponzi scheme? Does it mean that some information is not availabel to the general public, yet... I hope? Does it mean that the theft is still going on, or even worse, once internal people realized that ebank was insolvent they all started ripping at the carcass and taking what they could from the dead buffalo? I would say there is more to the story, with all due respect to Hexx and Ray, and whoever the hell else... There is a lot going on which they are not saying, and perhaps someone, one of them, should do a big write-up and explain all these discrepancies. At the moment all I see on the forums is "We do not know" "It is not our fault" "Not sure who did what" - nice... Thanks this is what I am saying. Now using the current situation I understand if Ebank didnt make more profit that current loss of 1.2tril. but even if it made say only 800bil profit, that means EBANk should only be 400bil negative not 1.2tril. Or as you put it if Ebank made 1.4tril then it should be 200bil in the green. I doubt this is the case but still stands were is all the profits EBANK has made. If your going to list every loss list the profits as well to see the true value of what EBANK should have, and then list actual value EBANK is at, this will show your total complete loss of isk
Varo Jan Minmatar	Posted - 2009.08.29 15:40:00 - [24] Originally by: Hexxx We had auditing in place. Nonsense. Bearing in mind what transpired, it¦s impossible that you had anything resembling auditing in place. You had no controls worthy of the name, no auditing and no accounting. Originally by: Hexxx But the rigor of auditing surrounding "ventures" was always a challenge. That is corporate speak for "We didn¦t audit or account for our ventures." Originally by: Hexxx As a leading voice of the Directorship for the past 2 years I take full responsibility for this. Nice words, but pointless. You accept responsibility, but you¦ve avoided accountability so far. So when are you planning to fund the entire deficit?
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.08.29 16:13:00 - [25] Quote: that is a ridiculous theory. what your saying is ebank goes and shoots itself in the foot and tries to take everyone else with it It's as ridicolous as selling stock under cost to drive off the newly arrived competition. Never happened, didn't it? Quote: I wanna know where all the ISK has gone too. Did Ricdic hold more ISK and assets than we knew about? Was there a large loss that was unreported? Well, even without PP posting about it, this was my feeling since the Ray EBANK thread came up. If they flaunted how "the system parachute" worked so well to mitigate Ricdic theft (assuming it's a theft, because there are other alternatives to it), how comes that one morning they wake up and find out the lockets are totally empty? Why such a poor 4 liners "report" of the causes of debt when even a poor idiot 2009 player like me can make a decent prospectus? Why the various branches that shold have brought in money have been omitted? It's like something "more" happened after Ricdic left, but in the EBANK opacity tradition they don't want to say. Either that, or EBANK is claiming a 1.2T default in order to be "saved" and then add additional income to the money they'll gather. Or that there's still a pulsating, active yielding "grisbi" that some hands are still milking upon even now. Possibly overlooked even by the other EBANK directors. Quote: As a leading voice of the Directorship for the past 2 years I take full responsibility for this. It is one of the reasons I resigned from the Board. I knew something "more" happened than just dedicating to the new insurance project, because you did like the honorable RL chairmans do when something bad happens. In the whole "transparent as mud" policy, you are still the one providing for the most clarity on what was going on, even today. Quote: But the rigor of auditing surrounding "ventures" was always a challenge. This is another mystery: as we are given to believe, there have been at least two attempts to auditing and both resulted with the auditor stepping down. When this happened, how comes no bell rang in The Chairman head? Did you trust the possibly fallacious statements of another BoD guy so much to overlook what a 3rd party reported? I don't think Ricdic's departure ended everything bad. There's much, much more to be said, doesn't it? Including at how you are so willing to put yourself as scapegoat, like there's Someone Else to cover. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
HawkBlade	Posted - 2009.08.29 16:38:00 - [26] Originally by: "Hexxx" As a leading voice of the Directorship for the past 2 years I take full responsibility for this. It is one of the reasons I resigned from the Board. Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I knew something "more" happened than just dedicating to the new insurance project, because you did like the honorable RL chairmans do when something bad happens. In the whole "transparent as mud" policy, you are still the one providing for the most clarity on what was going on, even today. Don't buy Hexxx's hype. He's the biggest liar at eBank and the most culpable. At every turn, while I was at eBank, Hexxx insulated and enabled Ric to go further and further out of line. Even after I left I watched as Hexxx played absentee chairman but presented to the public that "everything was under control". Simply put, Hexxx is the one who placated and pacified the public into funding this fiasco. Again, something I pointed out long ago in my resignation. Think HR. You know that guy that always sounds reasonable but his signature is signed on every memo reducing your vacation, increasing your medical bills, or on your termination notice? Yup, that's Hexxx. Polite and reasonable but not always telling you the truth or helping you in the least. (See Mind Guard) PS: You can quote me on that. See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
Steve Thomas	Posted - 2009.08.29 17:13:00 - [27] Edited by: Steve Thomas on 29/08/2009 17:14:59 Originally by: Proton Power My Theory, this is not based on facts just somthing I made up in my head. Ahh I see the problem here. here is the reality, they have you wanting to belive the best of Ebank because they dont want to deal with reality. Do you know investers with Madoff for example actualy tried to sue the US goverment claming that they caused he losses, and that there are STILL investors who are trying to get a lawyer to look into it because obviously the money has to be there somehwere? Ebank either is now or al;ways was a scam. from the sound of things it was yet another Ginko financial type bank. here is the reality of how banks work in mmos they rely on the "7 month life" of the typical account user. they figure that when you leave your not going to give a crap about any money in the bank because they cant take it with them when they leave so. . . they might as well pocket it. however the reality of compound interest always catches up sooner or later. eventualy they end up with too mutch that they say they owe with no way to pay it back because either someone comes back after a bit and says "wheres my money with a years compounding interest" or because they flat out ovpromised (easy enough to do)or because new subs hit a platue for a while or some other "investment" looks more lucrative or some some ** (a gambling ban or other change in policy from the mmos owners for example)hits the fan and causes a run on the bank. however in the mean time they treat the bank like there own personal piggybank taking cash out while saying whatever they need to say to make other people leave or even add in more money to the bank. Bascialy when the current owners of the scam are saying "theres no money" well guess what is most likely the case. .. THERE IS NO MONEY in fact the odds are actualy in favor of there being less real assets than what they are claming! . . . . . . . .** Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.08.29 18:00:00 - [28] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 29/08/2009 18:02:06 1) As you well know, I value you high enough to believe you understand that if I am "soft" with someone is because I have my agenda about it (!) 2) Thank you for that great link. How did you stumble upon that? You attend courses for your RL job? Edit: "At least one group member should be assigned the role of Devil's advocate. This should be a different person for each meeting. " This is f*king sure it's my mission. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read* http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Yendor Widdershins Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.08.29 18:28:00 - [29] Originally by: LaVista Vista You are confusing me for a director. EBanks 2008 Annual report lists you as "developer and auditor", so one presumes that you were fully aware of EBanks status, even if that status was "Absolutely hopeless to know whether or not the bank is making money." I suppose I could did up some forum posts of you explaining how secure EBank is/was because even if someone went rogue they could only steal a maximum of 30 Billion. And could someone link in the thread where you attacked Shar for daring to suggest that EBank needed more transparency?
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.08.29 18:34:00 - [30] Originally by: Yendor Widdershins EBanks 2008 Annual report lists you as "developer and auditor", so one presumes that you were fully aware of EBanks status, even if that status was "Absolutely hopeless to know whether or not the bank is making money." During my 1 month as an "auditor", my focus was the returning problem we had with ISK laundering. Most of the time was spend on developing a tool to predict which deposits were RMT related and which weren't. But as I had RL issues at the time, I stepped down from those two roles. Which also meant that I was completely off the payroll. Selene took over the role and started working on a full audit of the whole of EBANK. If anybody was aware, it would be him. I was never involved in any ventures, nor did I read any of the reports that were done on them.

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