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Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:17:00 - [1] I am confused about somthing, I understand the loss report and that they lost the following: 1. ~250b û Ricdic Theft. 2. ~380b û Loan Defaults 3. >48b û Share Losses 4. ~466b û Interest Paid 5. ~75b û Salaries But what about the isk gained over time? EBANK made isk, so is it really 1.2tril in debt? If so that means the above is inaccurate, there is a lot more isk missing, matter of fact that means every profit EBANK ever made is missing plus the above. Examples of incoming Isk - TXD Profits Component BPO Profits Advertising on there Forums Profits Loans Profits Investment Profits Ricdic Profits Those things above made EBANK isk, so how is it your 1.2tril isk short again?
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:18:00 - [2] Oh yea and copying I think 5 Titan BPO's for amlost a year profits as well. This alone should cover a good portion of the isk lost.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:22:00 - [3] Do you really need to crosspost?
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:22:00 - [4] So Alf, if im getting this right, you want to start a discussion about ebank, and you want your own thread to do it in, also... There are no profits in ponzies you know that.
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:23:00 - [5] My Theory, this is not based on facts just somthing I made up in my head. I dont believe EBANK is in the trouble it claims. I think they are trying to do a few things, and this will help them do them all. They have wanted to shrink in size for some time now, by doing this, it will help. They are ticked at Seleene for making up his own bank, by doing this, they hope that it will impact investors into his bank. I just dont' see how they are short such large isk sums when I know EBANK was making profits. I understand the large hits, but even if you read Hexxx and Athre previous posts, they claimed that even after the loan default they were still in the Green, and after Ric's scam it barley put them in the red. So a month later they are 1trillion isk in the red?
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:26:00 - [6] Originally by: Proton Power My Theory, this is not based on facts just somthing I made up in my head. I dont believe EBANK is in the trouble it claims. I think they are trying to do a few things, and this will help them do them all. They have wanted to shrink in size for some time now, by doing this, it will help. They are ticked at Seleene for making up his own bank, by doing this, they hope that it will impact investors into his bank. I just dont' see how they are short such large isk sums when I know EBANK was making profits. I understand the large hits, but even if you read Hexxx and Athre previous posts, they claimed that even after the loan default they were still in the Green, and after Ric's scam it barley put them in the red. So a month later they are 1trillion isk in the red? EBANK should start selling tinfoil hats. Maybe that would help with the deficit there is.
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:27:00 - [7] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Proton Power My Theory, this is not based on facts just somthing I made up in my head. I dont believe EBANK is in the trouble it claims. I think they are trying to do a few things, and this will help them do them all. They have wanted to shrink in size for some time now, by doing this, it will help. They are ticked at Seleene for making up his own bank, by doing this, they hope that it will impact investors into his bank. I just dont' see how they are short such large isk sums when I know EBANK was making profits. I understand the large hits, but even if you read Hexxx and Athre previous posts, they claimed that even after the loan default they were still in the Green, and after Ric's scam it barley put them in the red. So a month later they are 1trillion isk in the red? EBANK should start selling tinfoil hats. Maybe that would help with the deficit there is. Then were else is all the isk? Funny you guys have all these sarcastic answers but what about the answers people want to know when your holding what 2 trillion isk up?
Trustworthy Joe	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:28:00 - [8] Originally by: Proton Power My Theory, this is not based on facts just somthing I made up in my head. I dont believe EBANK is in the trouble it claims. I think they are trying to do a few things, and this will help them do them all.... ...*They are ticked at Seleene for making up his own bank, by doing this, they hope that it will impact investors into his bank.... that is a ridiculous theory. what your saying is ebank goes and shoots itself in the foot and tries to take everyone else with it. if anything, this just gives support to ECR and selene if he can keep a tighter ship than ebank did. _______________________ Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist want a sig? thats great! post it in response to my posts!
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:29:00 - [9] Originally by: Trustworthy Joe Originally by: Proton Power My Theory, this is not based on facts just somthing I made up in my head. I dont believe EBANK is in the trouble it claims. I think they are trying to do a few things, and this will help them do them all.... ...*They are ticked at Seleene for making up his own bank, by doing this, they hope that it will impact investors into his bank.... that is a ridiculous theory. what your saying is ebank goes and shoots itself in the foot and tries to take everyone else with it. if anything, this just gives support to ECR and selene if he can keep a tighter ship than ebank did. Possibly, but were else did all the isk go?
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:29:00 - [10] Yes Alf, i totally agree its a giant conspiracy against the central reserve bank.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:29:00 - [11] Originally by: Proton Power Then were else is all the isk? Funny you guys have all these sarcastic answers but what about the answers people want to know when your holding what 2 trillion isk up? I wanna know where all the ISK has gone too. Did Ricdic hold more ISK and assets than we knew about? Was there a large loss that was unreported? I wish that we knew. But we don't know at this point. We want to know where all the ISK went just as much as you do.
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:30:00 - [12] Originally by: Ji Sama Yes Alf, i totally agree its a giant conspiracy against the central reserve bank. I knew I could count on your support.
Trustworthy Joe	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:31:00 - [13] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Proton Power Then were else is all the isk? Funny you guys have all these sarcastic answers but what about the answers people want to know when your holding what 2 trillion isk up? I wanna know where all the ISK has gone too. Did Ricdic hold more ISK and assets than we knew about? Was there a large loss that was unreported? I wish that we knew. But we don't know at this point. We want to know where all the ISK went just as much as you do. /me uses telepathy to read wallet logs... -400b "love the mittani" -400b "love istvaan" _______________________ Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist want a sig? thats great! post it in response to my posts!
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:31:00 - [14] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Proton Power Then were else is all the isk? Funny you guys have all these sarcastic answers but what about the answers people want to know when your holding what 2 trillion isk up? I wanna know where all the ISK has gone too. Did Ricdic hold more ISK and assets than we knew about? Was there a large loss that was unreported? I wish that we knew. But we don't know at this point. We want to know where all the ISK went just as much as you do. Okay I can work with this answer, but then your loss report is still incorrect. It needs to show that every profit Ebank has ever made is also missing.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:32:00 - [15] Originally by: Trustworthy Joe -400b "love the mittani" -400b "love istvaan" If only that, then we could at least explain WTF happened
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:34:00 - [16] the plan is to crash the secondary market, and then buy up all the shares at pennies by the dollar.!
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:35:00 - [17] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Trustworthy Joe -400b "love the mittani" -400b "love istvaan" If only that, then we could at least explain WTF happened LV does Ebank know or even have any idea how much profit was made over time. Advertising Should be easy to figure out - Loans should be easy add up interest on all paid loans - Titans should be fairly easy - Say 70bil from me, I know its more but just low side - And what ever other area's you can come up with. I am just trying to understand how much isk is really gone.
Block Ukx Forge Laboratories	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:40:00 - [18] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Proton Power Then were else is all the isk? Funny you guys have all these sarcastic answers but what about the answers people want to know when your holding what 2 trillion isk up? I wanna know where all the ISK has gone too. Did Ricdic hold more ISK and assets than we knew about? Was there a large loss that was unreported? I wish that we knew. But we don't know at this point. We want to know where all the ISK went just as much as you do. Do you still believe that it was proper to continue expanding the bank when the most basic auditing policies were not in place? How can you claim ISK was secure when you donÆt know where the money went? BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:42:00 - [19] Originally by: Block Ukx Do you still believe that it was proper to continue expanding the bank when the most basic auditing policies were not in place? How can you claim ISK was secure when you donÆt know where the money went? You are confusing me for a director.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.08.29 14:46:00 - [20] Originally by: Block Ukx Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Proton Power Then were else is all the isk? Funny you guys have all these sarcastic answers but what about the answers people want to know when your holding what 2 trillion isk up? I wanna know where all the ISK has gone too. Did Ricdic hold more ISK and assets than we knew about? Was there a large loss that was unreported? I wish that we knew. But we don't know at this point. We want to know where all the ISK went just as much as you do. Do you still believe that it was proper to continue expanding the bank when the most basic auditing policies were not in place? How can you claim ISK was secure when you donÆt know where the money went? It wasn't his decision. As Chairman of the Board and a voting Director for the last two years I can talk about this. We had auditing in place, but the rigor of auditing surrounding "ventures" was always a challenge. We thought that things were alright, but it was always hard to get a precise number. It was believed though that we weren't horribly off base. It's easy to say now "What were you thinking" but at the time we were thinking things were ok. There were some bad decisions made....some misjudgements. As a leading voice of the Directorship for the past 2 years I take full responsibility for this. It is one of the reasons I resigned from the Board. EBANK - Advisor \| www.eve-bank.net
Jinx Barker Caldari GFB Scientific	Posted - 2009.08.29 15:12:00 - [21] The question makes perfect sense to me, and I understand a thread purpose as well. His other post will be lost in 10,000 other posts of mindless dribble. It does make sense to ask: 1) "You, (meaning ebank) are 1.2T (give or take a few hundred bill) in the hole." 2) "What happened to the profits?" In other words, If I ran a business, and I wound up with 500 Million ISK in debt, but I made 700 million over time... where is the 200 Million? (Oversimplified, I know, but just trying to look at basics). At some point ebank was valued at way more than 1.2T ISK, so where is the ISK? Does this mean that ebank indeed one giant Ponzi scheme? Does it mean that some information is not availabel to the general public, yet... I hope? Does it mean that the theft is still going on, or even worse, once internal people realized that ebank was insolvent they all started ripping at the carcass and taking what they could from the dead buffalo? I would say there is more to the story, with all due respect to Hexx and Ray, and whoever the hell else... There is a lot going on which they are not saying, and perhaps someone, one of them, should do a big write-up and explain all these discrepancies. At the moment all I see on the forums is "We do not know" "It is not our fault" "Not sure who did what" - nice...
Karanth Gallente Independent Fleet Dark Taboo	Posted - 2009.08.29 15:18:00 - [22] Originally by: Trustworthy Joe /me uses telepathy to read wallet logs... -400b "the mittani sends his regards" -400b "love istvaan" Fixed. Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Sorry, no. You have to go into wormholes and get farmed by the new AI NPCs like everyone else...
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.29 15:38:00 - [23] Edited by: Proton Power on 29/08/2009 15:39:59 Originally by: Jinx Barker The question makes perfect sense to me, and I understand a thread purpose as well. His other post will be lost in 10,000 other posts of mindless dribble. It does make sense to ask: 1) "You, (meaning ebank) are 1.2T (give or take a few hundred bill) in the hole." 2) "What happened to the profits?" In other words, If I ran a business, and I wound up with 500 Million ISK in debt, but I made 700 million over time... where is the 200 Million? (Oversimplified, I know, but just trying to look at basics). At some point ebank was valued at way more than 1.2T ISK, so where is the ISK? Does this mean that ebank indeed one giant Ponzi scheme? Does it mean that some information is not availabel to the general public, yet... I hope? Does it mean that the theft is still going on, or even worse, once internal people realized that ebank was insolvent they all started ripping at the carcass and taking what they could from the dead buffalo? I would say there is more to the story, with all due respect to Hexx and Ray, and whoever the hell else... There is a lot going on which they are not saying, and perhaps someone, one of them, should do a big write-up and explain all these discrepancies. At the moment all I see on the forums is "We do not know" "It is not our fault" "Not sure who did what" - nice... Thanks this is what I am saying. Now using the current situation I understand if Ebank didnt make more profit that current loss of 1.2tril. but even if it made say only 800bil profit, that means EBANk should only be 400bil negative not 1.2tril. Or as you put it if Ebank made 1.4tril then it should be 200bil in the green. I doubt this is the case but still stands were is all the profits EBANK has made. If your going to list every loss list the profits as well to see the true value of what EBANK should have, and then list actual value EBANK is at, this will show your total complete loss of isk
Varo Jan Minmatar	Posted - 2009.08.29 15:40:00 - [24] Originally by: Hexxx We had auditing in place. Nonsense. Bearing in mind what transpired, it¦s impossible that you had anything resembling auditing in place. You had no controls worthy of the name, no auditing and no accounting. Originally by: Hexxx But the rigor of auditing surrounding "ventures" was always a challenge. That is corporate speak for "We didn¦t audit or account for our ventures." Originally by: Hexxx As a leading voice of the Directorship for the past 2 years I take full responsibility for this. Nice words, but pointless. You accept responsibility, but you¦ve avoided accountability so far. So when are you planning to fund the entire deficit?
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.08.29 16:13:00 - [25] Quote: that is a ridiculous theory. what your saying is ebank goes and shoots itself in the foot and tries to take everyone else with it It's as ridicolous as selling stock under cost to drive off the newly arrived competition. Never happened, didn't it? Quote: I wanna know where all the ISK has gone too. Did Ricdic hold more ISK and assets than we knew about? Was there a large loss that was unreported? Well, even without PP posting about it, this was my feeling since the Ray EBANK thread came up. If they flaunted how "the system parachute" worked so well to mitigate Ricdic theft (assuming it's a theft, because there are other alternatives to it), how comes that one morning they wake up and find out the lockets are totally empty? Why such a poor 4 liners "report" of the causes of debt when even a poor idiot 2009 player like me can make a decent prospectus? Why the various branches that shold have brought in money have been omitted? It's like something "more" happened after Ricdic left, but in the EBANK opacity tradition they don't want to say. Either that, or EBANK is claiming a 1.2T default in order to be "saved" and then add additional income to the money they'll gather. Or that there's still a pulsating, active yielding "grisbi" that some hands are still milking upon even now. Possibly overlooked even by the other EBANK directors. Quote: As a leading voice of the Directorship for the past 2 years I take full responsibility for this. It is one of the reasons I resigned from the Board. I knew something "more" happened than just dedicating to the new insurance project, because you did like the honorable RL chairmans do when something bad happens. In the whole "transparent as mud" policy, you are still the one providing for the most clarity on what was going on, even today. Quote: But the rigor of auditing surrounding "ventures" was always a challenge. This is another mystery: as we are given to believe, there have been at least two attempts to auditing and both resulted with the auditor stepping down. When this happened, how comes no bell rang in The Chairman head? Did you trust the possibly fallacious statements of another BoD guy so much to overlook what a 3rd party reported? I don't think Ricdic's departure ended everything bad. There's much, much more to be said, doesn't it? Including at how you are so willing to put yourself as scapegoat, like there's Someone Else to cover. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
HawkBlade	Posted - 2009.08.29 16:38:00 - [26] Originally by: "Hexxx" As a leading voice of the Directorship for the past 2 years I take full responsibility for this. It is one of the reasons I resigned from the Board. Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I knew something "more" happened than just dedicating to the new insurance project, because you did like the honorable RL chairmans do when something bad happens. In the whole "transparent as mud" policy, you are still the one providing for the most clarity on what was going on, even today. Don't buy Hexxx's hype. He's the biggest liar at eBank and the most culpable. At every turn, while I was at eBank, Hexxx insulated and enabled Ric to go further and further out of line. Even after I left I watched as Hexxx played absentee chairman but presented to the public that "everything was under control". Simply put, Hexxx is the one who placated and pacified the public into funding this fiasco. Again, something I pointed out long ago in my resignation. Think HR. You know that guy that always sounds reasonable but his signature is signed on every memo reducing your vacation, increasing your medical bills, or on your termination notice? Yup, that's Hexxx. Polite and reasonable but not always telling you the truth or helping you in the least. (See Mind Guard) PS: You can quote me on that. See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
Steve Thomas	Posted - 2009.08.29 17:13:00 - [27] Edited by: Steve Thomas on 29/08/2009 17:14:59 Originally by: Proton Power My Theory, this is not based on facts just somthing I made up in my head. Ahh I see the problem here. here is the reality, they have you wanting to belive the best of Ebank because they dont want to deal with reality. Do you know investers with Madoff for example actualy tried to sue the US goverment claming that they caused he losses, and that there are STILL investors who are trying to get a lawyer to look into it because obviously the money has to be there somehwere? Ebank either is now or al;ways was a scam. from the sound of things it was yet another Ginko financial type bank. here is the reality of how banks work in mmos they rely on the "7 month life" of the typical account user. they figure that when you leave your not going to give a crap about any money in the bank because they cant take it with them when they leave so. . . they might as well pocket it. however the reality of compound interest always catches up sooner or later. eventualy they end up with too mutch that they say they owe with no way to pay it back because either someone comes back after a bit and says "wheres my money with a years compounding interest" or because they flat out ovpromised (easy enough to do)or because new subs hit a platue for a while or some other "investment" looks more lucrative or some some ** (a gambling ban or other change in policy from the mmos owners for example)hits the fan and causes a run on the bank. however in the mean time they treat the bank like there own personal piggybank taking cash out while saying whatever they need to say to make other people leave or even add in more money to the bank. Bascialy when the current owners of the scam are saying "theres no money" well guess what is most likely the case. .. THERE IS NO MONEY in fact the odds are actualy in favor of there being less real assets than what they are claming! . . . . . . . .** Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.08.29 18:00:00 - [28] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 29/08/2009 18:02:06 1) As you well know, I value you high enough to believe you understand that if I am "soft" with someone is because I have my agenda about it (!) 2) Thank you for that great link. How did you stumble upon that? You attend courses for your RL job? Edit: "At least one group member should be assigned the role of Devil's advocate. This should be a different person for each meeting. " This is f*king sure it's my mission. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read* http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Yendor Widdershins Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.08.29 18:28:00 - [29] Originally by: LaVista Vista You are confusing me for a director. EBanks 2008 Annual report lists you as "developer and auditor", so one presumes that you were fully aware of EBanks status, even if that status was "Absolutely hopeless to know whether or not the bank is making money." I suppose I could did up some forum posts of you explaining how secure EBank is/was because even if someone went rogue they could only steal a maximum of 30 Billion. And could someone link in the thread where you attacked Shar for daring to suggest that EBank needed more transparency?
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.08.29 18:34:00 - [30] Originally by: Yendor Widdershins EBanks 2008 Annual report lists you as "developer and auditor", so one presumes that you were fully aware of EBanks status, even if that status was "Absolutely hopeless to know whether or not the bank is making money." During my 1 month as an "auditor", my focus was the returning problem we had with ISK laundering. Most of the time was spend on developing a tool to predict which deposits were RMT related and which weren't. But as I had RL issues at the time, I stepped down from those two roles. Which also meant that I was completely off the payroll. Selene took over the role and started working on a full audit of the whole of EBANK. If anybody was aware, it would be him. I was never involved in any ventures, nor did I read any of the reports that were done on them.
Fitz VonHeise Foundation Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.08.29 19:31:00 - [31] Originally by: Hexxx As a leading voice of the Directorship for the past 2 years I take full responsibility for this. It is one of the reasons I resigned from the Board. With all due respect this is not good enough. I will repost my response from another thread. (I didn't see any response and if you did my appoligies in advance) Originally by: Block Ukx Without a doubt, there is ample evidence to prosecute those responsible for the collapse of EBANK and subsequent lost of funds. ... When I first read this I too laughed and said what a nutcase. But then I thought about it. At the formation of the Bank there were many well known people from MP who staked their reputation on the fact that this was not going to be a scam and more importantly that they would make sure that their was proper oversight into the operation of EBANK. They have failed. As much as I respect all those people listed they did fail. In my business when I make a mistake I make it right. I give people what they ask for and take off part of the cost for the inconvenience. The people who formed EBANK put their rep on the line and should put their own isk back into EBANK to make up for the losses that should NOT have happened if they had done the proper oversight. Unless they do then no one should take their word from now on for any business transaction or IPO they are a part of. I know I am going to take flak for this... but MD people used their reputation to get people to put trillions of isk into EBANK. A court case isn't going to go anywhere but all people of EVE should hold these Past Directors responsible till they make good the loses they caused by their lack of control and oversight.
HawkBlade	Posted - 2009.08.29 19:52:00 - [32] Originally by: Fitz VonHeise When I first read this I too laughed and said what a nutcase. But then I thought about it. First you are going to have to prove to me you have the proper equipment to have thought about it. From where I'm sitting you sure don't. Before you start doing some sort of blanket call on funds why don't you figure out who is culpable and/or who benefited and see if you can get the time of day from them. Otherwise you are just talking out of your ass. A common problem lately. But I'll bite... just how many trillions did I get people to invest into eBank? (I won't hold my breath on a rational or remotely intelligent answer.) See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
Fitz VonHeise Foundation Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.08.29 20:04:00 - [33] Originally by: HawkBlade .. just how many trillions did I get people to invest into eBank? (I won't hold my breath on a rational or remotely intelligent answer.) The directors didn't have to benefit from the loss of isk to be held accountable: They just didn't do the job they said they were hired/agreed to do. And yes the Directors (by their presence) gave a false sense of security to people of Eve that their isk was safe and to invest it in EBANK. So I am not saying any Director is a thief. I'm saying EBANK was formed by trusted MD people who staked their reputation that they would provide oversight and make sure nothing happened to people's isk. They failed. So unless they make good the isk that was lost then no one should believe what any of these directors say about any other project or IPO in Eve again. Simple as that. Directors who were at fault don't have to pay the isk back. But if they don't then they FORFIT any expectations that anyone will believe anything they say again on these forums.
Fitz VonHeise Foundation Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.08.29 20:15:00 - [34] On a personal note... I'm quite sure that Hexx and the other directors who started EBANK meant well... and they didn't start down this road to have it end like this. (And I include Ricdic it this too) They are all busy people in RL and this is just a game. However they didn't have to start the bank. But once they did they have to accept responsiblity for their actions or lack of actions. People have lost a LOT of isk that they slaved over making.
HawkBlade	Posted - 2009.08.29 20:38:00 - [35] See, you failed to provide a rational or even mildly intelligent answer. I am one of the founders of eBank. I resigned last year in July. The reasons eBank is in the position it is in was well described in my resignation. I tried warning people about what was going on. I could not actually say that things were bad because I had no way of knowing. All information was being withheld. That being the case I expressed my concerns and I resigned. So, the only thing I'm guilty of is not feeling sorry for the public in their poor choice(s). I'm also not going to feel sorry that you wasted your time pontificating like the buffoon that you apparently are. As the only friendly piece of advice I'm going to give you: Stick to your thief's list and leave this fight to the grown ups. You are just out of your depth and you just proved it but owning yourself. See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
testirania	Posted - 2009.08.29 20:41:00 - [36] Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Fitz VonHeise When I first read this I too laughed and said what a nutcase. But then I thought about it. Before you start doing some sort of blanket call on funds why don't you figure out who is culpable and/or who benefited and see if you can get the time of day from them. Otherwise you are just talking out of your ass. That can be hard for us "normal" people to do, since it has never been policy from E-bank to make public who has been working for them and in what capacity. But you could off course help with that problem and make a public list with dates and projects so we can see who has been apart of the business, that is if you dare
Steve Thomas	Posted - 2009.08.29 20:49:00 - [37] Originally by: Shadarle Posted - 2008.07.15 05:04:00 - [5 ] I seem to recall this is the second time I've seen this post. Only last time there was a lot more feigned yet overly open disgust put forth. Can we go for a threesome and try this again in a few more months? one year one month and a few days later . . . eh Hawkblade. but at least you got (ahem) "your" money out early. **. . . . . . . .** Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense.
Roguehalo Caldari RH Ship Brokers	Posted - 2009.08.29 21:05:00 - [38] Originally by: HawkBlade See, you failed to provide a rational or even mildly intelligent answer. I am one of the founders of eBank. I resigned last year in July. The reasons eBank is in the position it is in was well described in my resignation. I tried warning people about what was going on. I could not actually say that things were bad because I had no way of knowing. All information was being withheld. That being the case I expressed my concerns and I resigned. So, the only thing I'm guilty of is not feeling sorry for the public in their poor choice(s). I'm also not going to feel sorry that you wasted your time pontificating like the buffoon that you apparently are. As the only friendly piece of advice I'm going to give you: Stick to your thief's list and leave this fight to the grown ups. You are just out of your depth and you just proved it but owning yourself. Here is a quote from Hexxxs response to your resignation post :- "At heart, there is no crisis within EBANK, nor an impending explosion. As Shar hinted before, this is more about process, who does what, and the roles that people play within EBANK leadership. This is a Board issue as opposed to a staff issue. For those that do wish to withdraw their funds, we have shifted our capitalization once more to be cash heavy for a while in light of recent events. Liquidity is always a high priority at EBANK and now is no different. The Bank is operationally sound in all respects." In the light of subsequent events this makes quite interesting reading!
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.29 21:12:00 - [39] So other than LV's answer of I don't know were the isk went, are we going to see an answer of some sort of gains report like the loss one? I think Ray way over measured how much isk they are behind, or they way underestimated how much isk Ric scammed or somone else scammed in Ebank. Your missing every isk that Ebank has ever made from day 1. This number should be close to a trillion I would venture to guess.
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.08.29 22:17:00 - [40] You people are still running around willy nilly like headless chickens, should've put your money in P-BANK. P-BANK, Quote: Where the Benjamins are always used for A BIG GLASS OF PEPSI --- I was going to run for CSM but life waylaid me :(
HawkBlade	Posted - 2009.08.30 02:27:00 - [41] Originally by: testirania That can be hard for us "normal" people to do, since it has never been policy from E-bank to make public who has been working for them and in what capacity. But you could off course help with that problem and make a public list with dates and projects so we can see who has been apart of the business, that is if you dare Originally by: Steve Thomas one year one month and a few days later . . . eh Hawkblade. but at least you got (ahem) "your" money out early. These two jeniuses exemplify some of what I complain about. The signal to noise ratio has gotten extremely poor simply because people incorrectly believe that they are smart or clever. Instead of using it for something contributory they try to spice up their pathetic lives by being "snarky". Thus they jump in and try to play in the deep water but in truth their trolling falls flat from their sheer stupidity. In answer: eBank has never been shy about who works for them. There has never been a bigger bunch of ego "me, me, me" ***s in Eve to date imho. In my case I am Shar Tegral. The only reason I post with this toon is because of this post. I am quite fond of it regardless of any difficulty the outcome has caused me. This is important only because my name was listed, my duties were advertised, and you'll find regular reference to me even when I choose not to be around. So, unlike yourself, I'm remembered even when I'm not here to be stupid in public. As to getting out early, you bet. I've not a single isk in eBank and I'm comfortable with sharing my account records. (Login: Shar Tegral, PW: forums) There is nothing wrong with me expressing my lack of confidence with lack of deposit. If you, or others, don't understand that.... I'm sharing my wealth after years of playing eve. I'll give you 50% of every isk you send me. However if you can read, which seems to be within you meager capabilities, you'll see that I didn't get my money out early or had any special warnings or notices that were unusual. But don't let me sway you from your misbegotten confidence in your ignorance. After all, you can only work with what your parents gave you. (Inbreeding is bad though.) Originally by:** Proton Power So other than LV's answer of I don't know were the isk went, are we going to see an answer of some sort of gains report like the loss one? Ray can only work with what figures that can be found, let alone confirmed. If you have records, instead of guestimations, perhaps you could help. Otherwise, you are being part of the problem - not part of the solution. See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
Lecherito	Posted - 2009.08.30 02:38:00 - [42] Edited by: Lecherito on 30/08/2009 02:38:34 Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: testirania That can be hard for us "normal" people to do, since it has never been policy from E-bank to make public who has been working for them and in what capacity. But you could off course help with that problem and make a public list with dates and projects so we can see who has been apart of the business, that is if you dare Originally by: Steve Thomas one year one month and a few days later . . . eh Hawkblade. but at least you got (ahem) "your" money out early. These two jeniuses exemplify some of what I complain about. The signal to noise ratio has gotten extremely poor simply because people incorrectly believe that they are smart or clever. Instead of using it for something contributory they try to spice up their pathetic lives by being "snarky". Thus they jump in and try to play in the deep water but in truth their trolling falls flat from their sheer stupidity. In answer: eBank has never been shy about who works for them. There has never been a bigger bunch of ego "me, me, me" ***s in Eve to date imho. In my case I am Shar Tegral. The only reason I post with this toon is because of this post. I am quite fond of it regardless of any difficulty the outcome has caused me. This is important only because my name was listed, my duties were advertised, and you'll find regular reference to me even when I choose not to be around. So, unlike yourself, I'm remembered even when I'm not here to be stupid in public. As to getting out early, you bet. I've not a single isk in eBank and I'm comfortable with sharing my account records. (Login: Shar Tegral, PW: forums) There is nothing wrong with me expressing my lack of confidence with lack of deposit. If you, or others, don't understand that.... I'm sharing my wealth after years of playing eve. I'll give you 50% of every isk you send me. However if you can read, which seems to be within you meager capabilities, you'll see that I didn't get my money out early or had any special warnings or notices that were unusual. But don't let me sway you from your misbegotten confidence in your ignorance. After all, you can only work with what your parents gave you. (Inbreeding is bad though.) Originally by:** Proton Power So other than LV's answer of I don't know were the isk went, are we going to see an answer of some sort of gains report like the loss one? Ray can only work with what figures that can be found, let alone confirmed. If you have records, instead of guestimations, perhaps you could help. Otherwise, you are being part of the problem - not part of the solution. Mate, until you've further honed your mastery of the English language, mayhaps you should try sounding just a bit less pompous? Ridiculing one's stupidity amidst a post drowning in tardtastic grammatical mistakes has rather the aggravating effect to it. Just a thought. -L
Amarr Citizen 155 Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.08.30 02:55:00 - [43] Originally by: Lecherito Mate, until you've further honed your mastery of the English language, mayhaps you should try sounding just a bit less pompous? Ridiculing one's stupidity amidst a post drowning in tardtastic grammatical mistakes has rather the aggravating effect to it. Just a thought. -L Pot meet kettle...... <Amarr's signature>
Lecherito	Posted - 2009.08.30 03:02:00 - [44] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Originally by: Lecherito Mate, until you've further honed your mastery of the English language, mayhaps you should try sounding just a bit less pompous? Ridiculing one's stupidity amidst a post drowning in tardtastic grammatical mistakes has rather the aggravating effect to it. Just a thought. -L Pot meet kettle...... eh?
Dear Abby Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.08.30 03:06:00 - [45] While I can't fathom the lack of controls, balances , and recording that have come to light I have one nagging question. This was audited by two different people over time If you have no records and cannt track funds - what did they audit? Either they are worst auditors ever or they were provided with something to base their audits on. Is there more incompetence that needs a light shined on it or were the auditors lied to?
Amarr Citizen 155 Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.08.30 03:07:00 - [46] Edited by: Amarr Citizen 155 on 30/08/2009 03:11:04 "Mayhaps" you should check out this link. Edit: and yes I've seen the word used before and i know what it means. And you probably speak english as second language or whatever but I know I've seen you butcher the english language before and it always ****es me off when someone who makes common grammatical mistakes starts correcting other people. <Amarr's signature>
HawkBlade	Posted - 2009.08.30 04:19:00 - [47] Originally by: Dear Abby Is there more incompetence that needs a light shined on it or were the auditors lied to? Well it would be inconvenient to say what happened considering that the only auditor who did get have a "clue about what was going on" is trying to open yet another bank. Ironic wot? PS: Lecherito, I can not properly convey how dismayed me am at you I aggravate . Yet me should say that you qualify for "elitist" if intellect be restricted by proper usage to grammar. See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.08.30 04:52:00 - [48] Originally by: Roguehalo Originally by: HawkBlade See, you failed to provide a rational or even mildly intelligent answer. I am one of the founders of eBank. I resigned last year in July. The reasons eBank is in the position it is in was well described in my resignation. I tried warning people about what was going on. I could not actually say that things were bad because I had no way of knowing. All information was being withheld. That being the case I expressed my concerns and I resigned. So, the only thing I'm guilty of is not feeling sorry for the public in their poor choice(s). I'm also not going to feel sorry that you wasted your time pontificating like the buffoon that you apparently are. As the only friendly piece of advice I'm going to give you: Stick to your thief's list and leave this fight to the grown ups. You are just out of your depth and you just proved it but owning yourself. Here is a quote from Hexxxs response to your resignation post :- "At heart, there is no crisis within EBANK, nor an impending explosion. As Shar hinted before, this is more about process, who does what, and the roles that people play within EBANK leadership. This is a Board issue as opposed to a staff issue. For those that do wish to withdraw their funds, we have shifted our capitalization once more to be cash heavy for a while in light of recent events. Liquidity is always a high priority at EBANK and now is no different. The Bank is operationally sound in all respects." In the light of subsequent events this makes quite interesting reading! At the time that I wrote that Ray had not provided us with a crystal clear picture of our assets. I was working off the information we had at the time...which was wrong. Ray's efforts and live auditing tool allowed us to see the depth of the deficit. To put it in simple terms - our understanding of EBANK's assets were massively improved with Ray's help. EBANK - Advisor \| www.eve-bank.net
Yendor Widdershins Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.08.30 05:39:00 - [49] Originally by: Hexxx At the time that I wrote that Ray had not provided us with a crystal clear picture of our assets. I was working off the information we had at the time...which was wrong. Ray's efforts and live auditing tool allowed us to see the depth of the deficit. To put it in simple terms - our understanding of EBANK's assets were massively improved with Ray's help. I'm sorry, but around the time Shar left, you were listed as EBank's head auditor. So if the information you had was wrong, it's your own fault. More generally, Shar gave clear warning that the board of directors did not have effective control of the company, was clueless and ineffective, and had no idea what was going on. I do feel sorry for Ray who wasn't around then, but it's beyond poor taste for people who were directors when Shar resigned to now wring their hands and say they had no idea they were kept in the dark. As an aside, Riddic was kicked out of EBank early June. Did it really take 2 1/2 months to realise that EBank had less than half the money it showed on the books?
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.08.30 06:32:00 - [50] Originally by: HawkBlade Ray can only work with what figures that can be found, let alone confirmed. If you have records, instead of guestimations, perhaps you could help. Otherwise, you are being part of the problem - not part of the solution. 100% this. You ran the venture PP, show me the reports you handed to the BoD regarding your profitability. There aren't any, and you're to blame for that. Question my honesty in revealing this deficit again and I will begin ripping you a new one. However, you're right to a point. My reports could be wrong, there could be stockpiles of ISK or assets sitting somewhere that I don't know about. All I present are the facts as I know them, and no one on the BoD, past or present, has suggested to me otherwise where something could be missing. Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Roguehalo Caldari RH Ship Brokers	Posted - 2009.08.30 07:37:00 - [51] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: HawkBlade Ray can only work with what figures that can be found, let alone confirmed. If you have records, instead of guestimations, perhaps you could help. Otherwise, you are being part of the problem - not part of the solution. 100% this. You ran the venture PP, show me the reports you handed to the BoD regarding your profitability. There aren't any, and you're to blame for that. Question my honesty in revealing this deficit again and I will begin ripping you a new one. However, you're right to a point. My reports could be wrong, there could be stockpiles of ISK or assets sitting somewhere that I don't know about. All I present are the facts as I know them, and no one on the BoD, past or present, has suggested to me otherwise where something could be missing. What people really really really want to see now is a Balance Sheet. Can Ebank customers assume that there is one being prepared and that it will be published soon?
Ava Santiago Minmatar	Posted - 2009.08.30 07:43:00 - [52] Originally by: HawkBlade See, you failed to provide a rational or even mildly intelligent answer. I am one of the founders of eBank. I resigned last year in July. The reasons eBank is in the position it is in was well described in my resignation. I tried warning people about what was going on. I could not actually say that things were bad because I had no way of knowing. All information was being withheld. That being the case I expressed my concerns and I resigned. So, the only thing I'm guilty of is not feeling sorry for the public in their poor choice(s). I'm also not going to feel sorry that you wasted your time pontificating like the buffoon that you apparently are. As the only friendly piece of advice I'm going to give you: Stick to your thief's list and leave this fight to the grown ups. You are just out of your depth and you just proved it but owning yourself. Shar's 08 resignation clearly indicated that the risk profile of Ebank was significantly higher than advertised. Anyone crying in these forums about losing their Ebank deposits wasn't paying attention. - And in Eve, not paying attention is always expensive. Concord doesn't provide consequences. Concord provides insurance payouts.
Lecherito	Posted - 2009.08.30 07:46:00 - [53] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Edited by: Amarr Citizen 155 on 30/08/2009 03:11:04 "Mayhaps" you should check out this link. Edit: and yes I've seen the word used before and i know what it means. And you probably speak english as second language or whatever but I know I've seen you butcher the english language before and it always ****es me off when someone who makes common grammatical mistakes starts correcting other people. Yah mate, I'd truly appreciate links or examples of my "common misuse" of the English language. The fact that you included "mayhaps" in quotes, well, tells me pretty much everything I need to know. Generally I consider most of my posts well-written and quite proof read. If you beg to differ, perhaps you could provide a bit more substance? Hawk's recent posts have been some of the most condescending I've ever seen in MD, and the fact that they were constructed with eye-bleeding grammar doesn't do much to help his case. Just saying. -L
Lecherito	Posted - 2009.08.30 07:48:00 - [54] Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Dear Abby Is there more incompetence that needs a light shined on it or were the auditors lied to? Well it would be inconvenient to say what happened considering that the only auditor who did get have a "clue about what was going on" is trying to open yet another bank. Ironic wot? PS: Lecherito, I can not properly convey how dismayed me am at you I aggravate . Yet me should say that you qualify for "elitist" if intellect be restricted by proper usage to grammar. Truly, only curious, was this a "joke" post? -L
HawkBlade	Posted - 2009.08.30 10:12:00 - [55] Originally by: Lecherito Truly, only curious, was this a "joke" post? In part, yes. Part of my own work involves supporting people who barely speak English. Something I have to remind other Americans, all too often, is that broken English does not mean broken mind. Grammatical elitism is, honestly, the lowest of the low in the mutli-cultural environment that is Eve. However I also recognize that you were not attempting that. You just can't not troll. You were unable to attack what I said so you picked the low hanging fruit and attacked my grammar. In either case, you only showed how ... ... you only devalued yourself. Far be it from me to stop you. So far no one has been able to do that. See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.08.30 10:34:00 - [56] Originally by: Lecherito mayhaps you should try sounding just a bit less pompous? You called, m'lady?? --- I was going to run for CSM but life waylaid me :(
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.30 10:36:00 - [57] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: HawkBlade Ray can only work with what figures that can be found, let alone confirmed. If you have records, instead of guestimations, perhaps you could help. Otherwise, you are being part of the problem - not part of the solution. 100% this. You ran the venture PP, show me the reports you handed to the BoD regarding your profitability. There aren't any, and you're to blame for that. Question my honesty in revealing this deficit again and I will begin ripping you a new one. However, you're right to a point. My reports could be wrong, there could be stockpiles of ISK or assets sitting somewhere that I don't know about. All I present are the facts as I know them, and no one on the BoD, past or present, has suggested to me otherwise where something could be missing. Ray, Actually the T2 and Freighter portion of TXD which was far the greater part of it was tracked fairly well, all the reports were posted in the TXD portion of the forums, but my understanding is EBANK didn't back up the forums or some crap and lost all the information in them. Not sure how true or false that is, just what I was told. If its false then there should be details on all T2 bpo's and the few months I ran TXD profit reports. Anyway the easiest way to figure this out is this - Take your total account balances (what you should have) - Take your total assets, including most loans unless its default for sure - Subtract the two. If your still 1.2tril in debt then somthing is very wrong, and your missing a ton more isk than ever reported. If this is the case I would start not only working on how to fix it as your already doing, but were the extra trillion or so of isk went.
HawkBlade	Posted - 2009.08.30 10:45:00 - [58] Originally by: Proton Power stuff See what I mean about being part of the problem? You are stirring the drama to no actual purpose. Come on, you don't think people added and subtracted stuff? I know you are angry that you are no longer in the loop but this is getting silly. I've seen the audit that Ray is basing his decisions off of and like I've said elsewhere, I agreed that a freeze was the only rational option at this time. So yes, there is a profit and loss sheet. The gist of it Ray has already posted, the losses. The profit side of the business... damn hard to figure out. So, contrary to your supposition, losses are probably much much higher. After all "missing profits" is simply a speculative loss that no one knows where or how much it is. If you are so interested in finding such things we could always get together and go snipe hunting. Likely to be much more successful and, >gasps<, there would be less drama. See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.30 10:50:00 - [59] Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: testirania That can be hard for us "normal" people to do, since it has never been policy from E-bank to make public who has been working for them and in what capacity. But you could off course help with that problem and make a public list with dates and projects so we can see who has been apart of the business, that is if you dare Originally by: Steve Thomas one year one month and a few days later . . . eh Hawkblade. but at least you got (ahem) "your" money out early. These two jeniuses exemplify some of what I complain about. The signal to noise ratio has gotten extremely poor simply because people incorrectly believe that they are smart or clever. Instead of using it for something contributory they try to spice up their pathetic lives by being "snarky". Thus they jump in and try to play in the deep water but in truth their trolling falls flat from their sheer stupidity. In answer: eBank has never been shy about who works for them. There has never been a bigger bunch of ego "me, me, me" ***s in Eve to date imho. In my case I am Shar Tegral. The only reason I post with this toon is because of this post. I am quite fond of it regardless of any difficulty the outcome has caused me. This is important only because my name was listed, my duties were advertised, and you'll find regular reference to me even when I choose not to be around. So, unlike yourself, I'm remembered even when I'm not here to be stupid in public. As to getting out early, you bet. I've not a single isk in eBank and I'm comfortable with sharing my account records. (Login: Shar Tegral, PW: forums) There is nothing wrong with me expressing my lack of confidence with lack of deposit. If you, or others, don't understand that.... I'm sharing my wealth after years of playing eve. I'll give you 50% of every isk you send me. However if you can read, which seems to be within you meager capabilities, you'll see that I didn't get my money out early or had any special warnings or notices that were unusual. But don't let me sway you from your misbegotten confidence in your ignorance. After all, you can only work with what your parents gave you. (Inbreeding is bad though.) Originally by:** Proton Power So other than LV's answer of I don't know were the isk went, are we going to see an answer of some sort of gains report like the loss one? Ray can only work with what figures that can be found, let alone confirmed. If you have records, instead of guestimations, perhaps you could help. Otherwise, you are being part of the problem - not part of the solution. Not trying to hurt nor really help to much if you want my honest answer, I just want to know what happend to another trillion isk or so at my best estimate.
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.30 10:53:00 - [60] Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Proton Power stuff See what I mean about being part of the problem? You are stirring the drama to no actual purpose. Come on, you don't think people added and subtracted stuff? I know you are angry that you are no longer in the loop but this is getting silly. I've seen the audit that Ray is basing his decisions off of and like I've said elsewhere, I agreed that a freeze was the only rational option at this time. So yes, there is a profit and loss sheet. The gist of it Ray has already posted, the losses. The profit side of the business... damn hard to figure out. So, contrary to your supposition, losses are probably much much higher. After all "missing profits" is simply a speculative loss that no one knows where or how much it is. If you are so interested in finding such things we could always get together and go snipe hunting. Likely to be much more successful and, >gasps<, there would be less drama. Okay but my point is if the Profit sheet shows say only 100bil isk, that means EBANK is only 1.1tril in debt not 1.2tril. My question is based on what profits Ray has worked out how much isk is EBANK actually in the red. It's a very simple question and if he already did the work even easier to answer.
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.30 11:07:00 - [61] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: HawkBlade Ray can only work with what figures that can be found, let alone confirmed. If you have records, instead of guestimations, perhaps you could help. Otherwise, you are being part of the problem - not part of the solution. 100% this. You ran the venture PP, show me the reports you handed to the BoD regarding your profitability. There aren't any, and you're to blame for that. Question my honesty in revealing this deficit again and I will begin ripping you a new one. However, you're right to a point. My reports could be wrong, there could be stockpiles of ISK or assets sitting somewhere that I don't know about. All I present are the facts as I know them, and no one on the BoD, past or present, has suggested to me otherwise where something could be missing. LOL, rip me a new one, First I am not scared of you or anyone in the MD. Everything I have done has been on the up and up, the largest issue' I have is sticking with a project. Second, talk to the BOD about my reports before you try and lay blame. I refused to do the reporting from DAY 1, I said that from Day 1, i gave them the reporting I was willing to do which magically disapeared per a discussion with Athre 2 days ago, and nobody else on the BOD wanted the job of auditing everything I or ric did, so they sat back and said my reporting was good enough. Talk to your BOD before accusing somone else of doing wrong.
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.08.30 11:10:00 - [62] You're not making sense PP. What 100b are you talking about? The deficit is easy to work out as you already stated, it doesn't rely on calculating income. It's simply assets less liabilities. http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=t1FCGqaDaXqV1xH1RLu1g9w&gid=0 Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.08.30 11:13:00 - [63] You know what PP, go ** yourself. I don't need this ** from you. You're doing nothing but trolling now, you could have come and talked to me if you wanted clarification on anything. I think you forget I'm trying to fix this mess you and Ric left, I was not responsible for what I find myself in. You however played a part in it. So get bent you pathetic little man. Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.30 11:45:00 - [64] Originally by: Ray McCormack You know what PP, go ** yourself. I don't need this ** from you. You're doing nothing but trolling now, you could have come and talked to me if you wanted clarification on anything. I think you forget I'm trying to fix this mess you and Ric left, I was not responsible for what I find myself in. You however played a part in it. So get bent you pathetic little man. Your the one that threatend first, you would really rip into me I think was the words. Second you still have not told the public what happend to atleast 500bil to 1tril more isk. The way your showing it right now EBANK never made 1 signle isk. Meaning I never existed in EBANK, meaning EBANK was never paid for 1 single advertisment on its webpage, meaning it never sold 1 Titan BPC. Somthing is way way off, that is what I am trying to tell you, I don't know if its an error on your part, I don't know if Ricdic walked away with more than what YOUR saying, or what happend. My fault? Please explain, I have not been in EBANK for over a YEAR now, when I was with EBANK it was not near the size they grew to now, matter of fact they put in a vote to go over the 1tril mark when i was with EBANK, and TXD held over 500bil of that, and loans covered another 300bil give or take. So i know it had atleast 80% of the isk covered not including things like actual isk, shares, so forth and so on. I am not trying to say this is your fault, I am trying to tell you somthing else is up, there is way to much isk missing that you are not see'ing.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2009.08.30 11:47:00 - [65] Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 30/08/2009 11:47:46 <popcorn> Nom. This is good stuff, I'm looking forward to the movie!
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.30 11:48:00 - [66] Originally by: Ray McCormack You're not making sense PP. What 100b are you talking about? The deficit is easy to work out as you already stated, it doesn't rely on calculating income. It's simply assets less liabilities. http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=t1FCGqaDaXqV1xH1RLu1g9w&gid=0 Agree 100%. That shows yoru deficit, but that does not show your actual loss's. If your in a deficit as you are, that means every profit EBANK ever made is also lost, which does not add up i your loss report. Meaning you have another very large sum of isk missing.
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.30 11:51:00 - [67] Edited by: Proton Power on 30/08/2009 11:54:16 Question regarding your spread sheet, were is the assets TXD used to hold listed or is that part of all the other area's now. Second part and more of a personal question, Hexxx is still holding isk? I thought he resigned, I may have read more into it so this may be my mix up. --- Edit: Reading it a bit more closely, it shows the bank has spent/lost 1.2bil isk as you said in your first post, but the bank is currently only negative about 1bil isk, this explains that the bank did make 200bil isk profit somewhere along its existance. That is a good thing and what I have been asking. My only fear I guess then is were did all the other profits go, it has made more than 200bil since its existance, my best guess is more towards 800bil to 1til isk.
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.08.30 11:55:00 - [68] If you had come to me to discuss things you would know I'm well aware of this. Instead you played the perfect little drama queen. How do you suggest I trace the exact loss? There are no monthly profit reports from any of the ventures, even yours. There are no stored API logs so I can investigate to see who transferred what (apart from Athre's). I have f-all to work with. Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.08.30 11:57:00 - [69] Originally by: Proton Power Reading it a bit more closely, it shows the bank has spent/lost 1.2bil isk as you said in your first post, but the bank is currently only negative about 1bil isk, this explains that the bank did make 200bil isk profit somewhere along its existance. That is a good thing and what I have been asking. No, that's just a reporting error whereby withdrawals aren't calculated into the total. Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.30 11:58:00 - [70] Originally by: Ray McCormack If you had come to me to discuss things you would know I'm well aware of this. Instead you played the perfect little drama queen. How do you suggest I trace the exact loss? There are no monthly profit reports from any of the ventures, even yours. There are no stored API logs so I can investigate to see who transferred what (apart from Athre's). I have f-all to work with. This is what I was trying to tell you above, there was reports from the Component BPO selling deal and TXD while i was there, it was limited reporting but gives you the general idea of how much isk was invested, how much isk it made monthly, and what assets it held. I am told that these forum posts are gone now, I don't know why, I was not part of EBANK when it happend. I would be talking to who ever has a backup of those forums.
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.08.30 11:58:00 - [71] Originally by: Proton Power My only fear I guess then is were did all the other profits go, it has made more than 200bil since its existance, my best guess is more towards 800bil to 1til isk. I listed a variety of possibilities in my other thread, you should read it. Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.08.30 12:00:00 - [72] Originally by: Proton Power it was limited reporting but gives you the general idea of how much isk was invested, how much isk it made monthly, and what assets it held. As you say, it's limited and quite useless. I can also post **** in a random thread and claim it as reporting. Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.08.30 12:04:00 - [73] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Proton Power it was limited reporting but gives you the general idea of how much isk was invested, how much isk it made monthly, and what assets it held. As you say, it's limited and quite useless. I can also post **** in a random thread and claim it as reporting. Well agree, you have to trust the numbers I put down, but you can verify the T2 BPO stuff via sale threads and purchase threads if your bored (Guessing your not). But it does show a year ago, EBANK was fairly liquid, and had the assets + to cover deposits, so what ever happend has happend more recently, which is why I go to say your missing assets somwhere or ricdic took way more. I hope your just missing them, that woudl be great for EBANK and the Public that has isk in ebank, but I fear the other. If not mistaking your using api reader to figure out what assets that you have, does it read what is in delivery hangers or have you cleared out all the delivery hangers from TXD. I know sounds stupid, but I know for a fact Ricdic bought probably close to 1mil Arblast Launchers that are now actually worth more thanks to the bombers using torps. Things like that went into delivery hangers, and he did many more things like this. I appologize if you think this is a stupid question, but may be worht looking into.
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.08.30 12:12:00 - [74] Thanks, but please assume we're not stupid and have looked at all of this. Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.08.30 13:05:00 - [75] Ray has produced a balance sheet, not a cashflow report. There is a difference. EBANK - Advisor \| www.eve-bank.net
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.08.30 14:31:00 - [76] One point to help about Ricdic's account bans (if all were banned). Earlier this year I was trying to put together a social project which allowed people membership to a corp for a fee, and in that corp they could use any of the BPO's in the corp hangar. The members would pay a membership fee per month and BPO investors would get shares for their total invest. We couldn't work the mechanics due to CCP limitations. The point. Ricdic told me in convo and eve-mail, that he was willing to loan (secure lockdown) multiple Orca and freighter production sets (along with component BPO's). The amount discussed was around 100B in BPO's which would have made Ric largest shareholder (he would have had director access and lockdown vote). I have no idea if this was personal asset or banks. Just thought I would share
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.08.30 15:05:00 - [77] Excuse me if I interrupt the sequence of blessings thrown here.... @Hexxx What is the rationale behind the choice not to have effective accounting as a pillar of the bank? I mean, isn't it a bit... gross for the professionalities at stake? - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Solisk Gallente HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics	Posted - 2009.08.30 15:27:00 - [78] I find it very hard to believe that people who claimed to work for the advancement of the player-driven markets were careless enough to let this happen. I had always assumed that, at least, the people who ran projects for Ebank provided monthly cashflow reports. That would have at least provided rough numbers to work with. I guess I made an ass out of myself for assuming, eh? And probably a ton others. I think the bottom line is that trust in Ebank has been greatly shaken, if not broken. The public was led to believe, oh so many times, that Ebank was a safe institution and no one had anything to worry about. Of course, Shar Tegral did have the foresight to give a bit of a warning a year ago. I think a lot of others, like myself, had brushed his publicly-stated withdrawal of personal funds as being due to his personal issues with certain board members. I doubt Shar knew exactly how bad things were, but probably had a pretty good guess. +1 for preemptive moves. Ebank is surely working on a recovery plan, which will probably take a month or two. I genuinely hope that Ebank is also working on some sort of plan to regain customer trust if they (for some unfathomable reason) feel that they can emerge from this and continue to function as a business. Mr. McCormack: You joined at a horrible time and I really hope that your reputation isn't tarnished by something you had no part of. At the moment, I see you as someone that is overseeing the liquidation and shutdown of a failed corporation.
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.08.30 15:50:00 - [79] Awesome to see the MD forum ****s, self-intitled 'superstars' in action. Between wriggling out or responsability, trying to hide the facts and accusing ppl who want to know the facts of 'bad thoughts' you make a nice spectacle. :) --- I smack just for myself. Your signature file is to large. Please note: we do not allow signature files larger than 24000 bytes - Fallout
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.08.30 16:00:00 - [80] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Excuse me if I interrupt the sequence of blessings thrown here.... @Hexxx What is the rationale behind the choice not to have effective accounting as a pillar of the bank? I mean, isn't it a bit... gross for the professionalities at stake? At it's heart accounting is about assurance. Assurance that your controls work, assurance that your reports are correct, assurance that your business is liquid. Our challenge with EBANK in the past is trying to get absolute assurance on our financials. We had some reasonable assurance that we felt was reliable but we didn't have the pinpoint accuracy of accounting for every last isk. This was previously believed to be reasonable - a symptom of EBANK being as large as it is. We believed the Bank was profitable....and comfortably so. Clearly there were misjudgements made. Now that Ray has provided MUCH greater visibility into EBANK's underlying financials AND considering the damage Ricdic caused....we find ourselves at this point. As I've said before, I take responsibility for the Bank being in this position and I have resigned from the Board in part because of this mismanagement. I stay on and continue to support the Board because I believe in them and I believe in what EBANK is about. EBANK - Advisor \| www.eve-bank.net
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.08.30 16:10:00 - [81] Quote: Our challenge with EBANK in the past is trying to get absolute assurance on our financials. We had some reasonable assurance that we felt was reliable but we didn't have the pinpoint accuracy of accounting for every last isk. This was previously believed to be reasonable - a symptom of EBANK being as large as it is. We believed the Bank was profitable....and comfortably so. Clearly there were misjudgements made. Ok, aren't you a RL IT bank consultant? I was a RL company CEO, that is something less "hard core" in many respects. In my country you have to keep a record (don't know the English term) with all the capitols and in-outs between them (but it's not the regular accounting, it's an additional thing). I was famous for my December HEAVY SHOUTING and ranting (I'd make my super-tight skirt secretary flee in terror) because in 19 employees company at the end of a year with several millions of turnover I could not find where those 0.02c ended up to. Shouldn't a banking institution be even more anal than me? I mean, at the end of this odissey, I am quite sure people & customers will be more scared to believe in EBANK again due to the utter lack of checks than for having had their account frozen for a year. What can you do to change this scary fears? Ray is one man after all. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Loney CyberDyne R-D	Posted - 2009.08.30 17:54:00 - [82] Originally by: Proton Power Examples of incoming Isk - Advertising on there Forums Profits Investment Profits In the past 2 years Cyberdyne Corporations has paid/returned the following ISK to EVE-Bank: 1. ~2b in website Advertisements 2. ~2.7b in CDRA profits 3. ~1.3b in CDRE profits Info to assist in Eve-Bank account history if needed :) .. Check out our Lottery and Store!
Dranakolys Gallente Theurgy	Posted - 2009.08.30 18:04:00 - [83] Originally by: Proton Power My Theory, this is not based on facts just somthing I made up in my head. I dont believe EBANK is in the trouble it claims. I think they are trying to do a few things, and this will help them do them all. They have wanted to shrink in size for some time now, by doing this, it will help. They are ticked at Seleene for making up his own bank, by doing this, they hope that it will impact investors into his bank. I just dont' see how they are short such large isk sums when I know EBANK was making profits. I understand the large hits, but even if you read Hexxx and Athre previous posts, they claimed that even after the loan default they were still in the Green, and after Ric's scam it barley put them in the red. So a month later they are 1trillion isk in the red? I'll have some of what he's smoking.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.08.30 18:04:00 - [84] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: Our challenge with EBANK in the past is trying to get absolute assurance on our financials. We had some reasonable assurance that we felt was reliable but we didn't have the pinpoint accuracy of accounting for every last isk. This was previously believed to be reasonable - a symptom of EBANK being as large as it is. We believed the Bank was profitable....and comfortably so. Clearly there were misjudgements made. Ok, aren't you a RL IT bank consultant? I was a RL company CEO, that is something less "hard core" in many respects. In my country you have to keep a record (don't know the English term) with all the capitols and in-outs between them (but it's not the regular accounting, it's an additional thing). I was famous for my December HEAVY SHOUTING and ranting (I'd make my super-tight skirt secretary flee in terror) because in 19 employees company at the end of a year with several millions of turnover I could not find where those 0.02c ended up to. Shouldn't a banking institution be even more anal than me? I mean, at the end of this odissey, I am quite sure people & customers will be more scared to believe in EBANK again due to the utter lack of checks than for having had their account frozen for a year. What can you do to change this scary fears? Ray is one man after all. I am an IT consultant. The last bank client I had was for assisting in Anti-Money Laundrying compliance efforts a few years ago. Finance is a hobby of mine, not a career. If I could charge my normal $227 an hour rate to do accounting for EBANK I gladly would. But...it is a game. We thought we had reasonable assurance. That's about all I can say about it. EBANK - Advisor \| www.eve-bank.net
Dranakolys Gallente Theurgy	Posted - 2009.08.30 18:17:00 - [85] Originally by: Hexxx Originally by: Block Ukx Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Proton Power Then were else is all the isk? Funny you guys have all these sarcastic answers but what about the answers people want to know when your holding what 2 trillion isk up? I wanna know where all the ISK has gone too. Did Ricdic hold more ISK and assets than we knew about? Was there a large loss that was unreported? I wish that we knew. But we don't know at this point. We want to know where all the ISK went just as much as you do. Do you still believe that it was proper to continue expanding the bank when the most basic auditing policies were not in place? How can you claim ISK was secure when you donÆt know where the money went? It wasn't his decision. As Chairman of the Board and a voting Director for the last two years I can talk about this. We had auditing in place, but the rigor of auditing surrounding "ventures" was always a challenge. We thought that things were alright, but it was always hard to get a precise number. It was believed though that we weren't horribly off base. It's easy to say now "What were you thinking" but at the time we were thinking things were ok. There were some bad decisions made....some misjudgements. As a leading voice of the Directorship for the past 2 years I take full responsibility for this. It is one of the reasons I resigned from the Board. This is cute. First, you pretend that you had auditing in place. Then you make an excuse. Then, you "thought" you weren't far off. You see this is why you have this thing called "accounting", it takes the guessing out of the equation. This implies that you did not, in fact, have auditing in place. Too bad you don't have any personal wealth (and I can see why you do not), so that you can actually take responsibility. You were hoping things were OK, not thinking.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.08.30 18:21:00 - [86] Originally by: Dranakolys This is cute. First, you pretend that you had auditing in place. Then you make an excuse. Then, you "thought" you weren't far off. You see this is why you have this thing called "accounting", it takes the guessing out of the equation. This implies that you did not, in fact, have auditing in place. Too bad you don't have any personal wealth (and I can see why you do not), so that you can actually take responsibility. You were hoping things were OK, not thinking. I'm not in the habit of repeating myself. Read my past posts. EBANK - Advisor \| www.eve-bank.net
Jinx Barker Caldari GFB Scientific	Posted - 2009.08.30 18:26:00 - [87] Edited by: Jinx Barker on 30/08/2009 18:26:29 I can summarize the entire ebank fiasco; I took some time and read all the comments by Hexx, LV, and Ray - it is painfully clear that they simply HAD NO FRAKIN IDEA AS TO WHAT WAS HAPPENING WITH EBANK FINANCES. Ray, Hexx, and LV are all on the defensive, which I understand, since so many accusations are flying all around. But, unfortunately for their customer base, again, because they had no blinking clue as to real finances of the ebank, it is even worse. There is an old saying "excuses are like ********s, everyone's got em." It is a big ole excuse and blamefest at this point. They just do not want to admit that it was due to their negligence the people have lost their ISK. It was always somebody else, it was always when "I was not a director" - it is always something else. In real life, such mismanagement of financial institution, whether intentional or not, would bring with it criminal charges from whichever supervising authority - it is a good thing EVE is not a real life, eh? He he he ...
Dranakolys Gallente Theurgy	Posted - 2009.08.30 18:38:00 - [88] Originally by: Jinx Barker Edited by: Jinx Barker on 30/08/2009 18:26:29 I can summarize the entire ebank fiasco; I took some time and read all the comments by Hexx, LV, and Ray - it is painfully clear that they simply HAD NO FRAKIN IDEA AS TO WHAT WAS HAPPENING WITH EBANK FINANCES. Ray, Hexx, and LV are all on the defensive, which I understand, since so many accusations are flying all around. But, unfortunately for their customer base, again, because they had no blinking clue as to real finances of the ebank, it is even worse. There is an old saying "excuses are like ********s, everyone's got em." It is a big ole excuse and blamefest at this point. They just do not want to admit that it was due to their negligence the people have lost their ISK. It was always somebody else, it was always when "I was not a director" - it is always something else. In real life, such mismanagement of financial institution, whether intentional or not, would bring with it criminal charges from whichever supervising authority - it is a good thing EVE is not a real life, eh? He he he ... Err Ray isn't on the defensive, he's pointing out the obvious. He's kinda on the offensive in this thread :P He doesn't have anything to get defensive about, you know, seeing as how he had no hand in this mess?
Jinx Barker Caldari GFB Scientific	Posted - 2009.08.30 18:45:00 - [89] Originally by: Dranakolys He doesn't have anything to get defensive about, you know, seeing as how he had no hand in this mess? I suppose this is a matter of perception. If one is on the "offensive" defending one's decisions, or presenting a number of explanations that generally end in "(I) (we) did not know/had no idea/do not know" what (was) or (is) going on, then I would see it as being on the defensive, no matter what tactics being employed. I guess we can agree to disagree on that one.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.08.30 19:04:00 - [90] Originally by: Jinx Barker Originally by: Dranakolys He doesn't have anything to get defensive about, you know, seeing as how he had no hand in this mess? I suppose this is a matter of perception. If one is on the "offensive" defending one's decisions, or presenting a number of explanations that generally end in "(I) (we) did not know/had no idea/do not know" what (was) or (is) going on, then I would see it as being on the defensive, no matter what tactics being employed. I guess we can agree to disagree on that one. Ray has no reason to be defensive, however it could be argued that I do. I've stated multiple times in the past few days that I take responsibility for mismanagement and that I resigned from the Board in part because of that. I don't consider anything I've said to be an excuse - I have offered explanations and a personal apology but that's it. People made mistakes. Poor judgement was demonstrated. These are things that have been acknowledged. The Board of Directors for EBANK and it's staff are working to correct the situation. That's all there is. EBANK - Advisor \| www.eve-bank.net
skilzrulz Gallente 0neZeR0 Enterprises	Posted - 2009.08.30 19:13:00 - [91] I would love to see your Tech 2 bpo assets, as I know you valued my prints way way way low, why not have a expert like me value your assets?
Jinx Barker Caldari GFB Scientific	Posted - 2009.08.30 19:16:00 - [92] Originally by: skilzrulz I would love to see your Tech 2 bpo assets, as I know you valued my prints way way way low, why not have a expert like me value your assets? I would lend a hand on valuing the T2 BPO collection as well, since, I am somewhat dabbling in T2 markets and all that. I will even not charge a too big of a fee for it, lets say 1 Billion ISK to evaluate all t2 BPOs.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.08.30 19:18:00 - [93] Originally by: skilzrulz I would love to see your Tech 2 bpo assets, as I know you valued my prints way way way low, why not have a expert like me value your assets? I'd love to know why you defaulted knowing that the possibility that the value of your collateral may change or be valued different from your assumptions of it's value...and then cry foul when things didn't go your way. You defaulted on a loan. This resulted in your collateral being sold. You are responsible for the difference. The risk you took when you defaulted was that the value of the collateral may not have addressed your debt. So long as this debt stands I will ensure that you're financing abilities are limited to private parties. If you doubt me on this, you can look at what happened last time I commented on your public financing efforts. EBANK - Advisor \| www.eve-bank.net

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