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Frank Bowman
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Posted - 2009.09.01 19:13:00 -
[1]
I have a second account from my mining tasks (what I spend most of my time on), but I'm branching out my primary for mission running. I'm up to a Domi and have run a few L3's getting a feel for the ship. My second usually just does salvaging/clean-up afterwards. I'm wondering if there is a better/different way to make use of him. I don't want him involved in the fight (managing the domi is plenty to keep me busy), but could it be useful for him to sit far away and remote armor rep or something (no idea of ranges involved there)? I've been mining a while but am still a relative noob in many other areas of the game. Thanks in advance for any ideas.
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Adeena Torcfist
Caldari
Dark Underground Forces
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Posted - 2009.09.02 02:26:00 -
[2]
try command ships with warfare links active. since hes gunna be sitting about doing nothing, u may as well get some sort of bonus for doing nothing.
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Boink'urr
Minmatar
Wasserette De Tarthorst
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Posted - 2009.09.02 02:34:00 -
[3]
- Leadership skills that support your main when fleeted is a good idea.
- Extra set of drones (10 do more then 5) - deploy them and 'assign' them to assist your main and his drones, your second wont have to do anything after that, especially usefull if you assign T2 lights to defend your main, they will go after all frigs and cruisers for you while your main just focuses on BS and BC.
- Remote anything; repair, boost, tracking, sensor boosting etc etc
A command ship plus Command modules is quite a skill training curve for beginners so i'd not start to aim for that right away. 
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Khadrea Shakor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.02 05:51:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Boink'urr
...deploy them and 'assign' them to assist your main and his drones...
How do you assign drones to another player?
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Leather Jack
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Posted - 2009.09.02 07:00:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Khadrea Shakor
Originally by: Boink'urr
...deploy them and 'assign' them to assist your main and his drones...
How do you assign drones to another player?
Right click on your "Drones in space" tab, there is the option to Assist or Guard fleet members.
Assist sets your drones to attack whatever that pilot is attacking.
Guard sets your drones to automatically attack whatever is attacking that pilot.
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Khadrea Shakor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.02 07:17:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Leather Jack
stuff
Awesome, thanks
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Zeel Aldair
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Posted - 2009.09.02 10:36:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Leather Jack
Originally by: Khadrea Shakor
Originally by: Boink'urr
...deploy them and 'assign' them to assist your main and his drones...
How do you assign drones to another player?
Right click on your "Drones in space" tab, there is the option to Assist or Guard fleet members.
Assist sets your drones to attack whatever that pilot is attacking.
Guard sets your drones to automatically attack whatever is attacking that pilot.
Hey cool, I didn't know that either. Thanks for the info!
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Irdia Freelancer
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Posted - 2009.09.02 11:12:00 -
[8]
I find the domi a good support ship.
I run sentry drones in the domi, plus small/med drones to increase damage.
At the same time I run a few tractors/salv and cargo expanders in the lows so I salv the mission while the main kills and domi also provides drone support. I run 2x sentry rigs for more dps also. I dont run turrets as haven't the large turret skills, but then I loot/salv during this time so its not all bad. domi only has 6 slots and with 4 in tractor/salv, 1 in drone range, only 1 free anyway.
Lvl 4's not really hard enough to require support for remote rep etc, so I dont bother with remote rep or remote cap transfers. Lvl 5's a different story.
I was trying a little different support earlier. A marauder has the long range tractors, but I lack the skills by about 50+ days to even think of a marauder, more like 100 days to fly reasonably on my main, let alone the support. But I can fly a T3, and the added tractor range of the T3 gives me long range tractors, and the proteus can run 4 sentry drones. Its not quick a domi in dps, but can run 2x tractor, 2x salv, 2x sentry rigs, some highs med turrets, plus drones and tractor in the loot easier than the domi. It requires dumping into the local system (less capacity for loot than domi), but it works out quite efficient while missiosning if pick/choose the less bulky and valuable loot. How expensive for the T3 proteus, I priced one up at 510 mil earlier so an expensive loot ship, but quite useful. Can have other setups for the T3 when not running support loot/salv ship.
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B1FF
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Posted - 2009.09.02 12:28:00 -
[9]
2 newbs can do do any level 4.
First warps in with a raven and aggros a group.
Second warps in with a remote rep domi.
Turn on the domi's reps.
Raven aggros the rest of the mission.
Domi launches drones and set them to guard the raven.
Mission has now been castrated.
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Alsyth
Astromechanica Maxima
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Posted - 2009.09.02 16:45:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Alsyth on 02/09/2009 16:46:29
Edited by: Alsyth on 02/09/2009 16:45:49
Originally by: B1FF
2 newbs can do do any level 4.
First warps in with a raven and aggros a group.
Second warps in with a remote rep domi.
Turn on the domi's reps.
Raven aggros the rest of the mission.
Domi launches drones and set them to guard the raven.
Mission has now been castrated.
A Drake won't even need remote repping with appropriate hardeners 
Any full-dps BS can kill the Battleships/BC while the Drake does the Cruisers/BC/Destroyer and two flights of light drones do the frigates. That's what I do with a Drake + Maelstrom.
And if you had to de the remote rep thing, I think a Domi repped by a Raven would be a better idea :
-better tank on the domi I think, even fitted with guns and two damage mods (perhaps not against explosive damages)
-two spare high on the Raven, while the domi could fit guns instead of remote rep
-the Raven can use its mids for painters (a lot) and web (sometimes useful), and cap mods to remote the domi.
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B1FF
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Posted - 2009.09.02 17:05:00 -
[11]
Edited by: B1FF on 02/09/2009 17:07:46
Originally by: Alsyth
Edited by: Alsyth on 02/09/2009 16:46:29
Edited by: Alsyth on 02/09/2009 16:45:49
Originally by: B1FF
2 newbs can do do any level 4.
First warps in with a raven and aggros a group.
Second warps in with a remote rep domi.
Turn on the domi's reps.
Raven aggros the rest of the mission.
Domi launches drones and set them to guard the raven.
Mission has now been castrated.
A Drake won't even need remote repping with appropriate hardeners
Any full-dps BS can kill the Battleships/BC while the Drake does the Cruisers/BC/Destroyer and two flights of light drones do the frigates. That's what I do with a Drake + Maelstrom.
And if you had to de the remote rep thing, I think a Domi repped by a Raven would be a better idea :
-better tank on the domi I think, even fitted with guns and two damage mods (perhaps not against explosive damages)
-two spare high on the Raven, while the domi could fit guns instead of remote rep
-the Raven can use its mids for painters (a lot) and web (sometimes useful), and cap mods to remote the domi.
You're thinking too much. Tank is meaningless. The above set up has no need for a tank. You can run it with no tank items on the raven if you want. That was the point of the comment.
Let me simplify even more since my post appears to be too complex.
Put many shooters on a BS. This is the shooter.
Put many remote reppers on a BS. This is the repper.
1. Warp in shooter. Start shooting rats.
2. Warp in repper. Start repping shooter.
Any further discussion is pedantic.
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Jessica Lanson
Port Hercules
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Posted - 2009.09.02 17:30:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Jessica Lanson on 02/09/2009 17:36:03
Edited by: Jessica Lanson on 02/09/2009 17:34:15
Originally by: Frank Bowman
...2nd account for mission support...
Run two missions at once and get twice the money.
Only use shooter + repper if you can't solo 2 toons. 2 shooters in 2 different missions is just better.
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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2009.09.03 02:46:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Adeena Torcfist
try command ships with warfare links active. since hes gunna be sitting about doing nothing, u may as well get some sort of bonus for doing nothing.
What about his alt in a Drake, to go in first and take all the aggro? That's what I plan to start doing, in a few days.
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Salpad
C.E.O., Carebears with Attitude |
Leather Jack
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Posted - 2009.09.03 06:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Salpad
What about his alt in a Drake, to go in first and take all the aggro? That's what I plan to start doing, in a few days.
Good plan and a Perfectly valid tactic.
Warp in a heavy tanker to get initial aggro, then come in with the fire support.
Works like a charm, untill you have to stop the theif and Shadow's goons find it joyfull to target your firesupport instead of your tank. 
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.09.03 10:12:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Leather Jack
Works like a charm, untill you have to stop the theif and Shadow's goons find it joyfull to target your firesupport instead of your tank.
If your support is flying a Vexor with three sentry drones, they can warp in at 70km and pretty much fire on anything in the mission space with impunity :) Does't work so well in "Silence the Informant" where you get dumped right in the middle of a bunch of ships, but hey, you can't win 'em all!
A vexor pilot with sentries can then upgrade to a Dominix and you'll have even more support firepower from two extra sentry drones and a bunch of large railguns.
[Aussie players: join channel ANZAC] |
Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.09.03 10:38:00 -
[16]
Originally by: B1FF
You're thinking too much.
...
1. Warp in shooter. Start shooting rats.
2. Warp in repper. Start repping shooter.
Any further discussion is pedantic.
Not really. Rather, I'd say you're not thinking enough.
Rats don't only shoot, some also do ewar which hampers the shooter. By having a tank and a shooter, you can remove the ewar from the shooter in most missions. Domi and Drake can both have very good tanks and offense that is resiliant against ewar as well.
You're also wrong about going without any tank modules at all, many L4 missions will burn through a tankless BS even if it is being remote repped by another dedicated BS-repper. If your answer to this is going to be aggro mgmt, don't bother, since that means you're operating at reduced efficiency. Sometimes slight, sometimes severe, depending on mission.
That said, at least for EA 5/5 I use the shooter + remrepper setup. That's because I let all waves spawn before doing the mish, so as not to waste time waiting around for the next spawn. Also because Minnie ewar is a non-issue.
In L5's there are also more factors, and one method does not suit every mission. Same is true of L4's, sometimes it's beneficial to have two heavy hitters in one mish, sometimes it's better to have a heavy hitter and an anti-small stuff ship. As "heavy hitter" dps climbs above 1k at medium ranges, it's usually better to do separate missions, but not always.
No one rule/method fits all situations.
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Tammarr
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Posted - 2009.09.03 11:08:00 -
[17]
Dominix as tank/dps + omgdps ship =>Crunch them missions.
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Leather Jack
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Posted - 2009.09.03 13:11:00 -
[18]
To OP:
Depending on how much Skillpoints you're going to put into combat skills for anyone of your characters, you may get a good return on a Domi/Raven combo.
A properly fitted torp raven assisted by sentry drones from a dominix will be very easy on your attention span.
It will also field pretty awesome firepower.
If the domi is setup right, it can act both as a salvager and tank.
Neither ship is really skill intense and you might get away with just a month training or so.
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GrandPa Throttlebottom
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Posted - 2009.09.03 22:37:00 -
[19]
I use a Myrm to support a Raven when I do IV's because Battlecruisers can use warfare links without having to train for advanced command class battleships.
The Myrm has plenty of drone space for different packages, supports a warfare link, shield transporter, as well as two tractors and two salvagers so I can salvage as I go (makes the ninja's cry.)
In the mid's I have an AB for salvage help, as well as a shield tank. Some cargo expanders in the lows.
Double the light drones gets rid of the webber/scrambler frigates sooner, after which some heavier drones can assist the raven to speed things up.
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MisterBubbles
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Posted - 2009.09.04 16:13:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: B1FF
You're thinking too much.
...
1. Warp in shooter. Start shooting rats.
2. Warp in repper. Start repping shooter.
Any further discussion is pedantic.
Not really. Rather, I'd say you're not thinking enough.
Rats don't only shoot, some also do ewar which hampers the shooter. By having a tank and a shooter, you can remove the ewar from the shooter in most missions. Domi and Drake can both have very good tanks and offense that is resiliant against ewar as well.
You're also wrong about going without any tank modules at all, many L4 missions will burn through a tankless BS even if it is being remote repped by another dedicated BS-repper. If your answer to this is going to be aggro mgmt, don't bother, since that means you're operating at reduced efficiency. Sometimes slight, sometimes severe, depending on mission.
That said, at least for EA 5/5 I use the shooter + remrepper setup. That's because I let all waves spawn before doing the mish, so as not to waste time waiting around for the next spawn. Also because Minnie ewar is a non-issue.
In L5's there are also more factors, and one method does not suit every mission. Same is true of L4's, sometimes it's beneficial to have two heavy hitters in one mish, sometimes it's better to have a heavy hitter and an anti-small stuff ship. As "heavy hitter" dps climbs above 1k at medium ranges, it's usually better to do separate missions, but not always.
No one rule/method fits all situations.
Wow sensor dampners don't affect targeting range of missle users? Those Caldari really rock! They're also immune to webs and scrams? Those Caldari are really bad ass!
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:45:00 -
[21]
Originally by: MisterBubbles
Wow sensor dampners don't affect targeting range of missle users? Those Caldari really rock! They're also immune to webs and scrams? Those Caldari are really bad ass!
Is this the best troll you could produce? Tsk, tsk.
If you're too thick to get it, I'll explain, 'cause that's how kind and caring I am. Resilient obviously doesn't mean immune. In my post, it means NPC EW has an overall lower impact on these ships (and obviously their respective little and big brothers Ish/NH) compared to most other ships.
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MisterBubbles
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Posted - 2009.09.04 21:41:00 -
[22]
Edited by: MisterBubbles on 04/09/2009 21:42:33
What the ****** are you talking about?
They are equally affected by jams, damps, web, and scram. That makes up 80% of all ewar. More if you count neut/nos but I don't know if missions still do that.
This is such academic *****. You bring someone to kill the ships. You bring someone to rep your ship. At that point you can literally walk away form the computer at any time with no risk at all. At that point you've broken the mission system.
This can be done with two newbs that it will take longer to get the standings for than the skills for.
Any other details are meaningless. You're talking about the best way to beat up the ******ed kid.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.09.05 11:24:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 05/09/2009 11:25:01
Originally by: MisterBubbles
Edited by: MisterBubbles on 04/09/2009 21:50:44
What the ****** are you talking about?
Any other details are meaningless. You're talking about the best way to beat up the ******ed kid.
Wtf do you think I'm talking about? TD of course. But hey, if you want to be stupid, that's fine by me; To most people, how much isk they make from their missions is not meaningless, nor how long it takes them to get their desired standings.
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Mikal Drey
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.05 11:45:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Oh, and just to nitpick, they're NOT equally effected by webs, since missiles don't care about transversal.
except that thing called love explosion velocity
Shattered Crystal - 60 day GTC
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.09.05 14:06:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Mikal Drey
Originally by: Qui Shon
Oh, and just to nitpick, they're NOT equally effected by webs, since missiles don't care about transversal.
except that thing called love explosion velocity
This is about YOU getting webbed, and how it effects your effective DPS, not rats getting webbed, nor your tank which is not dependent on weapon system.
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Ziryab
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Posted - 2009.09.08 15:12:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Ziryab on 08/09/2009 15:14:26
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Mikal Drey
Originally by: Qui Shon
Oh, and just to nitpick, they're NOT equally effected by webs, since missiles don't care about transversal.
except that thing called love explosion velocity
This is about YOU getting webbed, and how it effects your effective DPS, not rats getting webbed, nor your tank which is not dependent on weapon system.
So when Caldari ships are webbed they don't take more damage from missles due to slower velocity and more from guns due to lower transversal?
Dude bro missles are weaksause. Crazy low dps. If you're talking about speed of doing missions there are much higher dps options.
Missles are lazy not better.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.09.08 17:40:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 08/09/2009 17:42:07
Originally by: Ziryab
Originally by: Qui Shon
This is about YOU getting webbed, and how it effects your effective DPS, not rats getting webbed, nor your tank which is not dependent on weapon system.
So when Caldari ships are webbed they don't take more damage from missles due to slower velocity and more from guns due to lower transversal?
Ffs, it's not a very comlpex statement, get a grip people. 
...
I'm sorry that was rude. I'm just getting tired of this thread and people arguing simply because they don't understand.
To answer your query: No, damage done by rats to player ship is not being discussed, at least by me. Damage done to rats by player ships, is the topic at hand, and this is where turret ships suffer more by being webbed, because they lose some control over transversal. A missile ship does not care about transversal.
I hope nobody is confused after this explanation.
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Ziryab
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Posted - 2009.09.08 20:32:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Edited by: Qui Shon on 08/09/2009 17:42:07
Originally by: Ziryab
Originally by: Qui Shon
This is about YOU getting webbed, and how it effects your effective DPS, not rats getting webbed, nor your tank which is not dependent on weapon system.
So when Caldari ships are webbed they don't take more damage from missles due to slower velocity and more from guns due to lower transversal?
Ffs, it's not a very comlpex statement, get a grip people.
...
I'm sorry that was rude. I'm just getting tired of this thread and people arguing simply because they don't understand.
To answer your query: No, damage done by rats to player ship is not being discussed, at least by me. Damage done to rats by player ships, is the topic at hand, and this is where turret ships suffer more by being webbed, because they lose some control over transversal. A missile ship does not care about transversal.
I hope nobody is confused after this explanation.
Well that's a limitation you and you alone put on the thread. Neither myself nor the OP put it there.
If you make incorrect blanket statements such as a race being immune to ewar you will get called on it.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.09.08 23:33:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 08/09/2009 23:35:53
Originally by: Ziryab
Well that's a limitation you and you alone put on the thread. Neither myself nor the OP put it there.
If you make incorrect blanket statements such as a race being immune to ewar you will get called on it.
I made no incorrect statements, and I CERTAINLY did not say immune, a fact I've already pointed out once in this thread. Are you ****ing trolling here or what? I haven't put any ****ing limitation on this thread, but I've certainly put them in MY statement, which already got one ****head response. It didn't need another.
Whether you use turrets or missiles doesn't effect your tank so OBVIOUSLY my statement wasn't about tanking. It was about NPC EWAR, and how it effects turret and missile ships DIFFERENTLY. I pointed out that turret ships are MORE VULNERABLE on average, which I stand by. Expanding on that, there are defenders to compensate, but then again, the top high-level PvE missile, the Torp, is immune to them.
You try to share a little information, but all you get is some bubbly 13 year old who doesn't get it, giving you crap for it. Did you see there how I alluded to MisterBubbles to include him in the rant? Or did that go over your head too?
Here, let me show you where you went wrong.
Originally by: Ziryab
This is about YOU getting webbed, and how it effects your effective DPS, not rats getting webbed, nor your tank which is not dependent on weapon system.
So when Caldari ships are webbed they don't take more damage from missles due to slower velocity and more from guns due to lower transversal?
Tank =/= effective dps. Is it really so hard to see that?
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.09.09 07:39:00 -
[30]
I stand by my factual statements, but as far as attitude and manners are concerned, I can confirm my 'puter does not have a breathalyzer.
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Ziryab
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Posted - 2009.09.10 16:39:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Qui Shon
damage done by rats to player ship is not being discussed
That's you trying to redirect the conversation away from your incorrect statement about Caldari.
As said many times before discussing how to do missions is pointless. Bring a remote rep. Done.
Anything else is just verbal ************; wanting to hear your own voice. I feel asamed I fell for your troll.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.09.10 18:39:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 10/09/2009 18:42:01
Originally by: Ziryab
Originally by: Qui Shon
damage done by rats to player ship is not being discussed
That's you trying to redirect the conversation away from your incorrect statement about Caldari.
I never have and never will troll. I'm not like you in that respect.
I'm not re-directing anything, but rather explaining what the part of the discussion which builds on my 100% correct statement, is about, to someone who missed this important distinction.
Quote:
As said many times before discussing how to do missions is pointless. Bring a remote rep. Done.
Anything else is just verbal ************; wanting to hear your own voice. I feel asamed I fell for your troll.
So I see you're the second person now who publicly claims it's meaningless whether you make 20 mil isk/h or 100mil isk/h from missioning. Really great thinking there Ziryab  .
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.09.10 23:16:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Ziryab
Dude bro missles are weaksause. Crazy low dps. If you're talking about speed of doing missions there are much higher dps options.
Missles are lazy not better.
You have better level 4 mission running times than a torp golem in what ship using what fitout?
A dual-domi squad will be able to tank anything and has DPS to spare, so you don't have to worry about who is being TD/jammed/etc. Both pilots can set their drones to guard or assist as required, but the effective DPS is about the same as a cruise CNR.
[Aussie players: join channel ANZAC] |
Meths
The Big Gay Animal Zoo
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Posted - 2009.09.10 23:44:00 -
[34]
DUAL CHUCK NORRIS
WINS WINS WINS
MEME IS OLD OLD OLD
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Professor Jinmei
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Posted - 2009.09.11 01:06:00 -
[35]
I am for the distributed tanking.
My alt can sensor boost, remote armor rep, shield transport, paint, web, drone assist, and loot.
But I became sick and tired of my alt having to warp out and comeback if a new spawn targets the alt, so I trained all the skills required to fit T2 armor modules (took me just a couple of weeks)
This gives my alt's myrmidon reasonable tanking against up to 3BS+2~3 BC mix. Also buys enough time, even if the entire new spawn targets and webs the alt , for the main to clear out the big ones attacking the alt.
The thing is, my alt can fly a domi within a day or two but I prefer a BC because of the warfare link and faster speed.
But then again, maybe I should train my alt for domi and run two separate missions simultaneously
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Ziryab
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Posted - 2009.09.14 15:19:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Edited by: Qui Shon on 10/09/2009 18:42:01
Originally by: Ziryab
Originally by: Qui Shon
damage done by rats to player ship is not being discussed
That's you trying to redirect the conversation away from your incorrect statement about Caldari.
I never have and never will troll. I'm not like you in that respect.
I'm not re-directing anything, but rather explaining what the part of the discussion which builds on my 100% correct statement, is about, to someone who missed this important distinction.
Quote:
As said many times before discussing how to do missions is pointless. Bring a remote rep. Done.
Anything else is just verbal ************; wanting to hear your own voice. I feel asamed I fell for your troll.
So I see you're the second person now who publicly claims it's meaningless whether you make 20 mil isk/h or 100mil isk/h from missioning. Really great thinking there Ziryab .
This is just nonsensical. If tracking disruptors are decreasing your earning by 80% you are doing it wrong. Especially considering how rare they are.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.09.14 16:09:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 14/09/2009 16:10:42
Originally by: Ziryab
As said many times before discussing how to do missions is pointless. Bring a remote rep. Done.
Originally by: Ziryab
This is just nonsensical. If tracking disruptors are decreasing your earning by 80% you are doing it wrong. Especially considering how rare they are.
Your first statement is what's nonsensical. So it got the response it deserved.
Also, TD's aren't rare. In fact, I think they're less rare then any other kind of L4 npc EW, since not only Sansha do it, but some Blood/Amarr also. Or can you show me some non-Angel/Minnie L4 npc that paints? Non-Guri/Caldari that jams? etc. They might be out there, and I just haven't noticed?
Oh, I'm pretty confident I'm not doing L4's wrong, since I've yet to see people list faster completion times then I have. Sure there's bound to be those who do 'em faster, there's *always* someone, but I I haven't come accross such people in forum or chat channels. L5's on the other hand, there I got a lot of work to do. Haven't even begun measuring completion times yet.
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